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Old 14th February 2019, 08:37 PM   #601
alfaniner
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
There is also now the concept of "end-user testing", that is: Running the draft version in a "real" environment to "run out the bugs" and then making further hasty bug-fixes on-the-fly. To my mind as a programmer of yore, that is simply ******* lazy.
I forgot to note that there was a notice on the door on the way out, saying the store would be closed at 9pm that night for "upgrades". I don't know how long the kiosks have been there (it's been a while since I went to Taco Bell) but it looks like they have more work to do.
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Old 15th February 2019, 01:51 AM   #602
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
There is also now the concept of "end-user testing", that is: Running the draft version in a "real" environment to "run out the bugs" and then making further hasty bug-fixes on-the-fly. To my mind as a programmer of yore, that is simply ******* lazy.
You need real environments to test on. And those need to be used as such.
Relying on a group of IT bods (even proper testers) rarely picks up on issues of how an end user will actually use the tool that's been developed.

At it's best, this form of end user testing occurs throughout development, obviously more as "end user input" in the early stages.

There really is nothing that will pick up issues faster than handing it over to some guinea pigs.

It even happens on websites. A new version will be rolled out to a random selection of clients to see how it actually functions in the wild, though in these cases it's usually more about the page layout and navigation than finding technical issues.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:49 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
There is also now the concept of "end-user testing", that is: Running the draft version in a "real" environment to "run out the bugs" and then making further hasty bug-fixes on-the-fly. To my mind as a programmer of yore, that is simply ******* lazy.
It think it's more that in the days when everything and anyone was just generally assumed to be constantly online releasing a bad and/or unfinished product and fixing and/or completing it later wasn't even an option.

Once a game was on a cartridge or program was on a disk/CD and shipped to stores that was it.
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:08 AM   #604
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Ah well, for games these days the current trend is to release the beta as a cheap version, essentially doing the debugging and steering gameplay.

It's how my kids got cheap copies of several games they play. They quite like seeing the game change as they go along. The updates can be a bit of a sod...

Edit: thinking about it, some of the games are barely beta...
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Old 26th February 2019, 07:16 PM   #605
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Something Cara Santa Maria said on the most recent episode of The Skeptics Guide to the Universe (it might have been Premium content) resonated with me, and I'm going to include it in my protocols for training new staff.

She was talking about science communication, and five rules of thumb she uses. One of them was never underestimate your audience's intelligence, but always underestimate their vocabulary. I think this is very true with ICT too. ICT is full of jargon and technical language. It's common for people to not be familiar with the language, but to still be perfectly capable of actually doing the thing that needs to be done.
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Old 26th February 2019, 07:30 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Something Cara Santa Maria said on the most recent episode of The Skeptics Guide to the Universe (it might have been Premium content) resonated with me, and I'm going to include it in my protocols for training new staff.



She was talking about science communication, and five rules of thumb she uses. One of them was never underestimate your audience's intelligence, but always underestimate their vocabulary. I think this is very true with ICT too. ICT is full of jargon and technical language. It's common for people to not be familiar with the language, but to still be perfectly capable of actually doing the thing that needs to be done.
Good good insight.

That said, I think there are a few vocabulary words that everyone should understand:

CPU
Disk
Memory
I/O (KVM)
Network

Everything else can be explained in terms of those, or by stacking/combining them, or by calling out an exception to them.
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Old 27th February 2019, 07:15 AM   #607
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A user needs to understand "these gosh darned confanguled computer thingies you we just started using.... errr 40 years ago" enough to verbalize to someone who is attempting to help them what the problem they are having actually is.

They don't have to explain it, they don't have to understand, they don't have to even use the "correct" terms they just need to be able to say something beyond "It doesn't work" or "It doesn't look right."
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Old 27th February 2019, 10:03 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
A user needs to understand "these gosh darned confanguled computer thingies you we just started using.... errr 40 years ago" enough to verbalize to someone who is attempting to help them what the problem they are having actually is.

They don't have to explain it, they don't have to understand, they don't have to even use the "correct" terms they just need to be able to say something beyond "It doesn't work" or "It doesn't look right."
Very true. I'm an IT guy, but I'm a developer, so I don't do a lot of user support in my job, but, since I'm a computer guy, I end up being tech support for friends and family a lot. The worst was my Mom (no longer with us). She was a very intelligent woman who seemingly turned off her brain whenever she was in front of a computer. I had approximately this conversation with her more times than I could count.

Mom: "I got a weird error message when I (tried to do something or other)."
Me: "What did the error message say".
Mom: "I don't know; I didn't understand it".
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Old 27th February 2019, 10:31 AM   #609
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Well, I know staff who insist that computers are too new for them to understand.

One who in fact wouldn't read their emails, until they were told they might want to look for the ones from HR!
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Old 27th February 2019, 05:26 PM   #610
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It's not that they're too new. It's that they're not in their area of expertise. I speak every day to people who are highly skilled in their area, but who have never learned much about how computers work. It's not relevant to their job, or their study, so they don't have the vocabulary to talk on a technical level. I don't have the vocabulary to talk on a technical level about their area of expertise either.
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Old 27th February 2019, 05:45 PM   #611
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Things I Wish More People Knew, Part 721: Working Offline

Me: Service Desk, how can I help?

Them: Outlook says that it's working offline, and it's been like that for hours and I've rebooted the computer and restarted and nothing I do works.

Me: In the Send/Receive tab of Outlook, click the Work Offline button to deselect it.

Them: Oh, it's working! Is that it?

Me: That's it.

For some reason, Outlook occasionally goes into offline mode in our environment for no apparent reason. This causes a lot of people a lot of distress, but it shouldn't because it's really easy to correct.
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Old 27th February 2019, 05:48 PM   #612
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It's not that they're too new. It's that they're not in their area of expertise. I speak every day to people who are highly skilled in their area, but who have never learned much about how computers work. It's not relevant to their job, or their study, so they don't have the vocabulary to talk on a technical level. I don't have the vocabulary to talk on a technical level about their area of expertise either.
I have known world-class neurosurgeons who refuse to use computers for pretty much that reason. They prefer the old approach of using a dictaphone to record their notes, and having their secretary type it up for their paper file system. It seems to be an extreme case of being stuck-in-a-rut.
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Old 27th February 2019, 06:52 PM   #613
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I have known world-class neurosurgeons who refuse to use computers for pretty much that reason. They prefer the old approach of using a dictaphone to record their notes, and having their secretary type it up for their paper file system. It seems to be an extreme case of being stuck-in-a-rut.
Focused on their own field. I'd be even less surprised that someone who has such a highly-skilled job as a neurosurgeon has never had the time or the inclination to learn the details of how computers work.

ETA: Public servants (aka shiny bums) have less of an excuse because computers are tools that they need to use on a daily basis.

Last edited by arthwollipot; 27th February 2019 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 27th February 2019, 07:45 PM   #614
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And this "computers are these mysterious totems that we can never hope to understand" meme has become self sustaining to the point that it's now a sort of backhanded pride, as if there is a certain achievement in getting a job that uses a computer while never learning how to use the thing.

Nobody is expected an end user to be going their own IRQ Assignments or editing the Registry or compile a DNS Black Hole List.

"The icon was on the left side of the screen but now it's on the right side of the screen so I'm going to completely shut down because 'it looks different' and wait for IT to come move the icon back the side of the screen I'm used to and brush off any attempt to show me how to do it with a passive aggressive and coyish 'oh I'm not a computer person'." is not that.
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Old 5th March 2019, 12:12 PM   #615
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Okay so the newest version of "Everything has to be exactly the same or I can't function" that my customer base has latched onto is the giggling "Oh I'm just so OCD fiddle dee" nonsense.
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Old 5th March 2019, 12:22 PM   #616
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And this "computers are these mysterious totems that we can never hope to understand" meme has become self sustaining to the point that it's now a sort of backhanded pride, as if there is a certain achievement in getting a job that uses a computer while never learning how to use the thing.

Nobody is expected an end user to be going their own IRQ Assignments or editing the Registry or compile a DNS Black Hole List.

"The icon was on the left side of the screen but now it's on the right side of the screen so I'm going to completely shut down because 'it looks different' and wait for IT to come move the icon back the side of the screen I'm used to and brush off any attempt to show me how to do it with a passive aggressive and coyish 'oh I'm not a computer person'." is not that.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay so the newest version of "Everything has to be exactly the same or I can't function" that my customer base has latched onto is the giggling "Oh I'm just so OCD fiddle dee" nonsense.
I usually tell these users that my 91 year old mother who is in nursing care with the beginnings of dementia can still work her PC and do emails and skype. Slowly, but she can still do it. So what is their excuse?
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Old 5th March 2019, 12:23 PM   #617
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I usually tell these users that my 91 year old mother who is in nursing care with the beginnings of dementia can still work her PC and do emails and skype. Slowly, but she can still do it. So what is their excuse?
I usually don't even get the respect of getting excuses. They just literally shut down, as in literally sit at their desk and play on their phones, until IT shows up and moves every icon back to the same spot on the screen or moves a window from one monitor to another.
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Old 5th March 2019, 12:25 PM   #618
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ETA: And ironically I have a few legit "old" users, people in their 60s are higher and I don't generally see this problem from them.

I see it, almost universally, from 40-55 year old women. Sadly in health care that's like..... 80-90% of your user base.
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Old 5th March 2019, 01:18 PM   #619
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Customer: "My computer runs really slow when thing get really busy, between 1 and 2. Can you take a look at it?"
Me: "Sure"
*Shows up at 1*
Customer: "Oh I can't get off my computer right now, it's way too busy. Come back when it's less busy."
Me: "Errrr... okay."
*Comes back later*
Customers: "Well it's not doing it now. It only does it when it's busy."
Me: "......"
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Last edited by JoeMorgue; 5th March 2019 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 5th March 2019, 03:50 PM   #620
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My office has IP Phones

User: I am not receiving any calls

Me: What does the display on the phone say?

User: Where?

Me:...the screen on the phone... (these are not friggin IMAX screens)

User: It says "please log in"

Yup, that's why I make the big bucks
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Old 5th March 2019, 03:59 PM   #621
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Customer: "My computer runs really slow when thing get really busy, between 1 and 2. Can you take a look at it?"
Me: "Sure"
*Shows up at 1*
Customer: "Oh I can't get off my computer right now, it's way too busy. Come back when it's less busy."
Me: "Errrr... okay."
*Comes back later*
Customers: "Well it's not doing it now. It only does it when it's busy."
Me: "......"
My boss has a standard reaction to this type of selfish behaviour.

"I have 30 minutes available TODAY ONLY to fix your problem. Then I have to go fix other people's problems for the rest of the week. Your 30 minutes started 90 minutes ago when I first turned up. So...sorry, your time's up! If you are still having a problem, log another call and go to the back of my scheduling queue. Ta ta!"
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Old 5th March 2019, 04:00 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I usually don't even get the respect of getting excuses. They just literally shut down, as in literally sit at their desk and play on their phones, until IT shows up and moves every icon back to the same spot on the screen or moves a window from one monitor to another.
Tell them to go away for 5 minutes. Change the background colour or something. They will usually say "that's fixed it!"
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Old 5th March 2019, 04:32 PM   #623
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Glad I got out of IT 6 days after I got in. Gawdamn you guys are angry. Must suck to hate your job and clientele so much. I'd be a fat, pale alcoholic by now if I'd stayed.


* Sorry Spellcheck, clientele is a word, but you are correct that Gawdamn is not.
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Old 5th March 2019, 05:45 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay so the newest version of "Everything has to be exactly the same or I can't function" that my customer base has latched onto is the giggling "Oh I'm just so OCD fiddle dee" nonsense.
Grrr... it's not OCD. You pay attention to detail, or you like things in a particular way, but you do not have Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, with is a mental illness that devastates lives.

In other news, the other thing I hate is when a caller persistently breathes into their phone. I really hate that.
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Old 5th March 2019, 06:23 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Grrr... it's not OCD. You pay attention to detail, or you like things in a particular way, but you do not have Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, with is a mental illness that devastates lives.

In other news, the other thing I hate is when a caller persistently breathes into their phone. I really hate that.
Whistle tunelessly at your end while you work. See how quickly they will hold the phone away from their head.
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Old 5th March 2019, 06:45 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Whistle tunelessly at your end while you work. See how quickly they will hold the phone away from their head.
I usually fill dead air with actual information if I can. If I can't, it'll usually be something like "Hm hm hm... and just... select that and that, copy that to there... hm hm hm... and there. It's done."
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Old 5th March 2019, 07:08 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I usually fill dead air with actual information if I can. If I can't, it'll usually be something like "Hm hm hm... and just... select that and that, copy that to there... hm hm hm... and there. It's done."
The idea in this one case is to make their listening more annoying than yours. Then they will move the phone away from their head even a bit, and thus no more annoying breathing noises for you.

Another solution is to put them on hold while you work.
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Old 5th March 2019, 07:23 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The idea in this one case is to make their listening more annoying than yours. Then they will move the phone away from their head even a bit, and thus no more annoying breathing noises for you.

Another solution is to put them on hold while you work.
I would use the latter rather than the former. I try not to annoy the customers.
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Old 5th March 2019, 08:01 PM   #629
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I would use the latter rather than the former. I try not to annoy the customers.
But you do need to train them. Informal support lesson 102.
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Old 5th March 2019, 08:14 PM   #630
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
But you do need to train them. Informal support lesson 102.
Hence why I prefer when I can to fill dead air with information.
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Old 6th March 2019, 08:20 PM   #631
JoeMorgue
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Tell them to go away for 5 minutes. Change the background colour or something. They will usually say "that's fixed it!"
I really don't think I'm getting across the level my main customer base operates at.

I'm not exaggerating for affect when I say I have customers who will, if they leave work on Friday and for instance the... Chrome Icon is above the Outlook Icon on their desktop but come into work Monday and for some reason the Outlook Icon is above the Chrome Icon they will literally stop and refuse to work until someone comes by and moves the icons back to their original spot. Any attempt to move information into their brains will be meet with a stubborn, oddly proud, and completely unflappable "Oh I'm not a computer person."

And the thing is... some of these people actually perform complicated tasks during the course of their jobs but they don't "know" how to do them in the literal sense. What they know is route memorization of tasks. They are pigeons trained to peck this button, then this button, then this button with zero concept of what makes what happen. They have zero actual computer skills and were in general never "trained" in any real sense of the term but just shadowed some now long gone person and watched them do it until they memorized the steps they were taking but with zero understanding of what is actually happening. It's all Cargo Cult Computing. All they know is what motions to go through, there's zero conceptual understanding of anything.

I used the metaphor earlier if I taught someone how to drive only by showing them the exact, step by step functions to perform on their car to drive to work but never telling them that the one peddle makes the car go forward and the other one makes the car stop and the wheel makes it turn. They know when they get to the end of the road they have to turn the wheel left and the car turns left onto the other road, but they don't know that turning the wheel is what makes the car turn left so if they ever have to turn left in any other context or situation they have zero idea what to do.

9 times out 10 they can't even verbalize "The Chrome Icon and the Outlook Icon aren't in the same spot." At least once a week minimum (much, much more if we've done an upgrade or anything that changes how stuff "looks" over the weekend) I have the following trouble call, almost verbatim.

"My screen looks different."
"Okay what's different about it?"
"I don't know it just looks different. I had everything the way I wanted it on Friday and now it looks different."
"What's different about it?"
"Things aren't in the same place."
"Where did what go? What has changed?"
"I don't know I just know it looks different? Can you get it back to the way it was?"

Which literally ends with me just moving icons around on their desktop randomly until I by pure chance get it back to the "way it was" in their heads. I then have to sit and watch them as they open every program, folder, file, and icon to "make sure they all work."

Change their background color? That would send a full 1/4th of my user base into full on existential crisis, I'd practically be pulling them out of Plato's Cave.
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Old 7th March 2019, 08:02 AM   #632
Hellbound
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I really don't think I'm getting across the level my main customer base operates at.

I'm not exaggerating for affect when I say I have customers who will, if they leave work on Friday and for instance the... Chrome Icon is above the Outlook Icon on their desktop but come into work Monday and for some reason the Outlook Icon is above the Chrome Icon they will literally stop and refuse to work until someone comes by and moves the icons back to their original spot. Any attempt to move information into their brains will be meet with a stubborn, oddly proud, and completely unflappable "Oh I'm not a computer person."

And the thing is... some of these people actually perform complicated tasks during the course of their jobs but they don't "know" how to do them in the literal sense. What they know is route memorization of tasks. They are pigeons trained to peck this button, then this button, then this button with zero concept of what makes what happen. They have zero actual computer skills and were in general never "trained" in any real sense of the term but just shadowed some now long gone person and watched them do it until they memorized the steps they were taking but with zero understanding of what is actually happening. It's all Cargo Cult Computing. All they know is what motions to go through, there's zero conceptual understanding of anything.

I used the metaphor earlier if I taught someone how to drive only by showing them the exact, step by step functions to perform on their car to drive to work but never telling them that the one peddle makes the car go forward and the other one makes the car stop and the wheel makes it turn. They know when they get to the end of the road they have to turn the wheel left and the car turns left onto the other road, but they don't know that turning the wheel is what makes the car turn left so if they ever have to turn left in any other context or situation they have zero idea what to do.

9 times out 10 they can't even verbalize "The Chrome Icon and the Outlook Icon aren't in the same spot." At least once a week minimum (much, much more if we've done an upgrade or anything that changes how stuff "looks" over the weekend) I have the following trouble call, almost verbatim.

"My screen looks different."
"Okay what's different about it?"
"I don't know it just looks different. I had everything the way I wanted it on Friday and now it looks different."
"What's different about it?"
"Things aren't in the same place."
"Where did what go? What has changed?"
"I don't know I just know it looks different? Can you get it back to the way it was?"

Which literally ends with me just moving icons around on their desktop randomly until I by pure chance get it back to the "way it was" in their heads. I then have to sit and watch them as they open every program, folder, file, and icon to "make sure they all work."

Change their background color? That would send a full 1/4th of my user base into full on existential crisis, I'd practically be pulling them out of Plato's Cave.
Write a quick script in PowerShell. Have it take a screenshot of the user's dekstop, with icons. Then set that picture as their desktop background.

Hi-jinks ensue
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Old 7th March 2019, 09:37 AM   #633
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Save and restore desktop icon positions
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...d-3a8a5b97898d
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Old 7th March 2019, 09:52 AM   #634
xterra
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Wudang, have you used either of the first two programs listed in that link?


If so, do you have any comments about them?
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Over we go....
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Old 7th March 2019, 10:43 AM   #635
Donal
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Write a quick script in PowerShell. Have it take a screenshot of the user's dekstop, with icons. Then set that picture as their desktop background.

Hi-jinks ensue
Did that at an old job of mine. You also have to remember to remove the other icons. You learned to lock your PC very quickly there.
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Old 7th March 2019, 10:45 AM   #636
Donal
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post

In other news, the other thing I hate is when a caller persistently breathes into their phone. I really hate that.
Chewing. I haaaaaaaaate when someone is chewing into their phone while talking to me.
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Old 7th March 2019, 10:58 AM   #637
jimbob
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I really don't think I'm getting across the level my main customer base operates at.

I'm not exaggerating for affect when I say I have customers who will, if they leave work on Friday and for instance the... Chrome Icon is above the Outlook Icon on their desktop but come into work Monday and for some reason the Outlook Icon is above the Chrome Icon they will literally stop and refuse to work until someone comes by and moves the icons back to their original spot. Any attempt to move information into their brains will be meet with a stubborn, oddly proud, and completely unflappable "Oh I'm not a computer person."

And the thing is... some of these people actually perform complicated tasks during the course of their jobs but they don't "know" how to do them in the literal sense. What they know is route memorization of tasks. They are pigeons trained to peck this button, then this button, then this button with zero concept of what makes what happen. They have zero actual computer skills and were in general never "trained" in any real sense of the term but just shadowed some now long gone person and watched them do it until they memorized the steps they were taking but with zero understanding of what is actually happening. It's all Cargo Cult Computing. All they know is what motions to go through, there's zero conceptual understanding of anything.

I used the metaphor earlier if I taught someone how to drive only by showing them the exact, step by step functions to perform on their car to drive to work but never telling them that the one peddle makes the car go forward and the other one makes the car stop and the wheel makes it turn. They know when they get to the end of the road they have to turn the wheel left and the car turns left onto the other road, but they don't know that turning the wheel is what makes the car turn left so if they ever have to turn left in any other context or situation they have zero idea what to do.

9 times out 10 they can't even verbalize "The Chrome Icon and the Outlook Icon aren't in the same spot." At least once a week minimum (much, much more if we've done an upgrade or anything that changes how stuff "looks" over the weekend) I have the following trouble call, almost verbatim.

"My screen looks different."
"Okay what's different about it?"
"I don't know it just looks different. I had everything the way I wanted it on Friday and now it looks different."
"What's different about it?"
"Things aren't in the same place."
"Where did what go? What has changed?"
"I don't know I just know it looks different? Can you get it back to the way it was?"

Which literally ends with me just moving icons around on their desktop randomly until I by pure chance get it back to the "way it was" in their heads. I then have to sit and watch them as they open every program, folder, file, and icon to "make sure they all work."

Change their background color? That would send a full 1/4th of my user base into full on existential crisis, I'd practically be pulling them out of Plato's Cave.
I have a "things are different and IT support can't really change it" issue with my work PC.

We have Lenovo laptops and separate Lenovo keyboards for our desks.

The laptop has the ctrl and fn buttons swapped compared to the standalone keyboard. WHY LENOVO DID YOU DO THAT? I could understand if they decided to go their own way, but no, it was just their laptop.

Do you know how many times I have pressed Fn+C and Fn+V and failed to paste things?
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 7th March 2019, 11:52 AM   #638
zooterkin
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I have a "things are different and IT support can't really change it" issue with my work PC.

We have Lenovo laptops and separate Lenovo keyboards for our desks.

The laptop has the ctrl and fn buttons swapped compared to the standalone keyboard. WHY LENOVO DID YOU DO THAT? I could understand if they decided to go their own way, but no, it was just their laptop.

Do you know how many times I have pressed Fn+C and Fn+V and failed to paste things?
Oh, god, yes. I had a Lenovo at my last job; luckily I mostly had to use it with a docking station and keyboard at the office, but it was a real pain when travelling or working from home.
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Old 7th March 2019, 01:01 PM   #639
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I really don't think I'm getting across the level my main customer base operates at.

I'm not exaggerating for affect when I say I have customers who will, if they leave work on Friday and for instance the... Chrome Icon is above the Outlook Icon on their desktop but come into work Monday and for some reason the Outlook Icon is above the Chrome Icon they will literally stop and refuse to work until someone comes by and moves the icons back to their original spot. Any attempt to move information into their brains will be meet with a stubborn, oddly proud, and completely unflappable "Oh I'm not a computer person."

And the thing is... some of these people actually perform complicated tasks during the course of their jobs but they don't "know" how to do them in the literal sense. What they know is route memorization of tasks. They are pigeons trained to peck this button, then this button, then this button with zero concept of what makes what happen. They have zero actual computer skills and were in general never "trained" in any real sense of the term but just shadowed some now long gone person and watched them do it until they memorized the steps they were taking but with zero understanding of what is actually happening. It's all Cargo Cult Computing. All they know is what motions to go through, there's zero conceptual understanding of anything.

I used the metaphor earlier if I taught someone how to drive only by showing them the exact, step by step functions to perform on their car to drive to work but never telling them that the one peddle makes the car go forward and the other one makes the car stop and the wheel makes it turn. They know when they get to the end of the road they have to turn the wheel left and the car turns left onto the other road, but they don't know that turning the wheel is what makes the car turn left so if they ever have to turn left in any other context or situation they have zero idea what to do.

9 times out 10 they can't even verbalize "The Chrome Icon and the Outlook Icon aren't in the same spot." At least once a week minimum (much, much more if we've done an upgrade or anything that changes how stuff "looks" over the weekend) I have the following trouble call, almost verbatim.

"My screen looks different."
"Okay what's different about it?"
"I don't know it just looks different. I had everything the way I wanted it on Friday and now it looks different."
"What's different about it?"
"Things aren't in the same place."
"Where did what go? What has changed?"
"I don't know I just know it looks different? Can you get it back to the way it was?"

Which literally ends with me just moving icons around on their desktop randomly until I by pure chance get it back to the "way it was" in their heads. I then have to sit and watch them as they open every program, folder, file, and icon to "make sure they all work."

Change their background color? That would send a full 1/4th of my user base into full on existential crisis, I'd practically be pulling them out of Plato's Cave.
I hate to say this, but those users have YOU well and truly trained. And their bosses too. To me, this reads as blatant laziness on their part, which is being totally indulged. If they come to a grinding halt because an icon is misplaced on their screen and then resort to the time-wasting effort of getting you to come visit them and put it back and you then oblige...then I suspect they are more likely having a larf at your expense and using you to allow them to bunk off work for 30 minutes.

I would hope that in an economy where there is an abundance of people looking for work these days, they will be told to smarten up and get with the program or they will be replaced by someone who can do their job because they do know how to find icons on a computer screen no matter where they are.

Having seen this sort of thing only once or twice in my longish career now, I also recall one nice solution. It involved a company that billed back operational charges internally. For instances like this where employees deliberately repeated the same "mistakes" even after retraining, their division was billed a day's "consulting rates" for the technical effort taken to rectify each re-occurrence. That is, hundreds if not thousands of internal dollars at a time. The division head VERY quickly got the message. It usually took them only one round to make it stop...
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Old 7th March 2019, 01:09 PM   #640
jimbob
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Oh, god, yes. I had a Lenovo at my last job; luckily I mostly had to use it with a docking station and keyboard at the office, but it was a real pain when travelling or working from home.
Yup, nice PC otherwise - although I have sometimes found myself trying to use the non-existent touchscreen.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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