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#2961 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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DagensNyheter/Ipsos: Increasing worries that the health-care system can’t handle the infection At the presse briefing this afternoon, Tegnell was still talking about a ”decreasing increase” of the number of new cases …
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Several also fear that the flight of staff will continue. - They say that the hospital staff are ’walking on their knees’, but we are crawling right now. We are in despair, says Carina Lenngren, head of negotiations for municipal workers at Karolinska University Hospital. It is feared that staff will stop – with the second wave here And the numbers are expected to rise until some time in December: FHM: I december når vi toppen av kurvan (Expressen.se, Nov. 26, 2020) The Public Health Agency: We will reach the peak of the curve in December |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2962 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Nursing homes:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2963 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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I don't think terminology is a big problem. I think airborne should be used in the current situation, but it should of course be added that it is almost only relevant indoors. Telling people that the virus is not airborne, which is what they did in Sweden, will make people think that they are safe in indoor settings as long as they keep a distance. If somebody misunderstands airborne to mean that they might get infected outdoors, they may become afraid of venturing outside, but that misunderstanding is easy to correct and doesn't harm them much. If they think that they are safe inside as long as they practice social distancing, it helps spread the infection. (In particular if they are also told that face masks aren't really necessary because ... not airborne!) Do you really think that the concentration of corona aerosols in your local Co-op could build up to the extent that people could get infected? I mean, it's not a place where people spend hours like in restaurants, bars or at choir practice, is it? Would passing somebody in an aisle, even a small narrow one, pose any danger if they don't cough on you? |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2964 |
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NT 150 511
Posts: 46,348
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It's probably not that dangerous but it's a small shop in comparison to the big supermarkets and if an employee was in there all day talking and breathing out aerosol it's possible the air-space could become infective.
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"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
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#2965 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Correction: Iceland
I thought Iceland's pandemic strategy was elimination because it seemed to have eliminated the virus and had no deaths for a couple of months, but that is not the case. Iceland is 'hammering and dancing' but has wielded the hammer more skillfully than most. See graphs.
A comprehensive article about Iceland's pandemic struggle:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2966 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 22,681
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There's a bookmakers in my small* market town. When it's open (not now) it has put a limit of 14 customers. The similarly-sized post office next to it (typical village post office) has a limit of 2 customers. I do wonder if they're giving their clientele an extra chance to gamble.
*technically a town due to the market cross but it's more like a large village. |
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#2967 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Thursday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Nov. 26, 2020) Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical Sweden: 654 (6,622) 5,841* 220* **according to SVT.se Denmark: 140 (811) 1,191* 42 *based on 75,091 tests, positive 1.6 % Iceland: 76 (26) 11 2 Finland: 70 (388) 496 21 Norway: 58 (316) 480 33 Iceland has 166 active cases, Faroe Islands 2, New Zealand 60. The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized. Covid vaccine ready by March 2021 (KVF.fo, Nov. 24, 2020)
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2968 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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OECD report
SVT.se this morning:
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– The number was 7 times too high. According to them we were almost at the top in number of tests, and that is not true, says Anders Björkman, professor of infectious diseases at the Karolinska Institute. OECD makes changes to report that drew much attention - had calculated incorrectly |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2969 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Two new Swedish articles in the thread about capitalism spreading coronavirus.
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2970 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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- We estimate that the number of daily deahts will peak at between 100 and 140 deaths in the first weeks of December and then sink again before Christmas. It is the most likely scenario, says ECDC’s analyst Helen Johnson. ECDC: The death toll in Sweden may become as high as is April*
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Editorial: That the curve of new infections will turn around sounds better than it is
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(...) The mathematics professor Tom Britton saw the corona threat to Sweden early on. On March 6, he sent an email to Anders Tegnell and warned him that the infection would spread to Sweden. It was the first of hundreds of emails. The latest one is about face masks. The face-mask question became so loaded. ”Are you for or against?!” I am a somewhat in between.” Tom Britton has written hundreds of emails to Anders Tegnell – sometimes he received a reply *The article is behind a paywall, but Expressen's article based on the article in Dagens Nyheter isn't: Sverige kan nå svart coronarekord före jul (Expressen.se, Nov. 27, 2020) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2971 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Friday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Nov. 27, 2020) Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical Sweden: 660 (6,681) 6,774* 219* **according to SVT.se Denmark: 141 (816) 1,323* 46 *based on 84,409 tests, positive 1.6 %. Iceland: 76 (26) 23 2 Finland: 71 (393) 618 19 Norway: 60 (328) 445 31 Iceland has 176 active cases, Faroe Islands 2, New Zealand 66. The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2972 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Quote:
– The Swedish society is not divided. The level of confidence in the authorities, politics and the health-care system is incredibly high. Don’t you think that the debate about the strategy is sometimes quite heated? The debate is in the media, not in society. It is not at all like in the USA where the question has been twisted by politics, for instance that it is a position to wear face masks. We also don’t have strong protest movements against the authorities the way they do in Germany and France. A large proportion of the population agrees that we are handling this in the best way possible. You are being criticized for downplaying the risks that the infection will spread again. What do you think of this criticism? – I don’t understand it. In other countries, it has been discussed that this is something that we will never get rid of completely. We have been very clear that this is a disease that will be here for a very long time. You are also criticized for having made incorrect assessments of important things happening while the infection was spreading? – We made risk assessments all the time based on scenarios that were happening at the time. That people then look back and say, ”back then, this is what you thought – but look what it was like three months later” is not a relevant argument when it is a question of the risk at that exact point. That is completely wrong. Tegnell dismisses the criticism: Doesn’t understand it – ”We have to live with this disease somehow” Tegnell doesn't seem to notice that anti-masking, inspired by his strategy, is one of the twisted political positions in the USA. He also doesn't seem to notice that he is the inspiration for many of the protest movements in other countries. I guess those are some of the many things he doesn't understand.
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Policewoman in the middle of the crowd: Was shocked A Swedish policewoman posts photos of Black Friday shoppers |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2973 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Iceland: numbers rising again
The numbers are rising in Iceland:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2974 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Quote:
He openly admits this in an interview with Swedish Dagens Nyheter. And now that the spread of infection in Sweden is again at the same level as in the spring, the professor encourages Swedish national epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, to also admit his mistakes. Because mistakes were made in the Swedish handling of the corona pandemic in the spring, says Tom Britton, professor of mathematical statistics at the University of Stockholm and, among other things, researcher on how infectious diseases spread in a population. And this harms the Swedes' trust in the Public Health Agency, the Swedish equivalent of the (Danish) National Board of Health, if the errors are not acknowledged, Tom Britton adds: "The Public Health Agency and Anders Tegnell seem to have a hard time acknowledging mistakes, and others seem to think that, as a principle, everything the Public Health Agency does is wrong," Tom Britton told Dagens Nyheter. Mathematics professor predicted Swedish herd immunity. Now he has sent more than 100 emails to Anders Tegnell Tom Britton also thinks that the Public Health Agency's attitude to face masks is a little cowardly. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2975 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Saturday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Nov. 28, 2020) Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical Denmark: 142 (823) 1,636* 42 *based on 100,197 tests, positive 1.6 %. Highest number of cases as well as of tests.. Iceland: 76 (26) 25 2 Finland: 71 (393) 541 19 Norway: 60 (328) 353 31 Iceland has 193 active cases, Faroe Islands 4, New Zealand 69. The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized.
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2976 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Article today in Aftonbladet:
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Many protestors have one thing in common: their love of Sweden. While the image of Sweden has taken a toll from the tragic number of deaths, many in the conspiracy-theorist Querdenker movement, who are critical of the German government's measures to stop the spread of infection during the pandemic, stick to worshipping the Swedish strategy. – Many protestors use the Swedish flag to express that they also want a policy like the one in Sweden. It has become a symbol of protest, says Stefan Homburg, professor of government expenditure at the Leibniz University in Hannover. Homburg has become known as a fierce critic of the Merkel government's pandemic policy with a ban on contacts and mandatory use of face masks in shops and on public transport. Instead, he sees Sweden as a pioneering country and praises Anders Tegnell's efforts as "very professional".
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Sweden is paying a high price for group thinking and hubris - Hero worship does not help against Covid-19. When Anders Tegnell says that "We also don’t have strong protest movements against the authorities the way they do in Germany and France," he ignores the fact that Sweden's ban on groups larger than eight is also a ban on "strong protest movements." |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2977 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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And speaking of ...
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How bans during the pandemic may affect Sweden’s democracy |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2978 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Coronavirus eliminated (!) in Victoria, Australia
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Since the beginning of the pandemic, more than 20,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported in the Australian state Victoria. But now the Health Authorities in the country assesses that the virus has been eliminated in the state. The world is watching Australia, wishing they were us, says Greg Hunt, the country’s minister of health. How the state got rid of the coronavirus – not a single case for a month |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2979 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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OECD report
The first time SVT.se mentioned the OECD report, which graded Sweden at the bottom in many categories, they seemed to be quite happy that not all grades were low:
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But the OECD report doesn't only have criticism for Sweden. The impact on Swedish economy, for instance, has been relatively small compared to the rest of Europe, and Sweden is also well positioned as far as testing is concerned. The OECD has studied the number of daily tests per 100,000. With 243 tests Sweden is way above the average of 123 tests. Sweden gets bottom grades in big corona study (SVT.se, Nov. 23, 2020) However, as it turned out, the OECD thought that Sweden's number of tests per week was the number per day: So after the correction, Sweden got low grades here as well:
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Sweden was pinpointed as the worst – now the OECD makes a correction i.e. the correction makes it even worse. OECD rättar rapport och placerar Sverige lågt i ytterligare en mätning: ”Blir så när man jämför länder” (EmanuelKarlsten.se, Nov. 27, 2020) OECD corrects report and places Sweden low in one more category: ”This is what happens when you compare countries” |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2980 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Quote:
(...) Stockholm is the second-hardest impacted capital in Europe Aftonbladet: Stockholm is the second hardest-hit capital in Europe when it comes to the pandemic (NorwayToday.info, Nov. 29, 2020) |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2981 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Svenska Dagbladet today:
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Now Tom Britton has a new view about when Sweden will reach herd immunity against Covid-19. Tom Britton is critical of the Public Health Agency. The Agency has been too slow – and some of the questions they are pursuing seem to become a matter of prestige. Unfortunate, the mathematics professor thinks. Britton after the error – here is his new prognosis It would be very interesting to see the prognosis, but it is behind a paywall. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2982 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 20,222
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I am sure I saw a study which shows the Covid virus can hang around in the air for a long time. For example, in a shop, when the person dispensing it has long left.
I don't think it necessarily means it has to 'blow around with the wind' hundreds of metres away outdoors. The risk would be indoors, where there is no wind to blow it away. |
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Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! |
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#2983 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Yes, that seems to be the epidemiological consensus. In particular, if the ventilation system isn't very effective. However, in a shop (even in a bicycle repair shop), the doors are usually opened and closed all the time, which should contribute to some air circulation, and customers don't usually spend hours in a shop the way people do in churches, cinemas, bars and restaurants. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2984 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 20,222
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The DAILY MAIL is claiming, yesterday, that Tegnell has been 'sidelined', presumably ont eh basis that Lofven's press conference overran thus, overlapping/clashing and blocking out Tegnell's scheduled after his.
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Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! |
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#2985 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 20,222
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Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! |
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#2986 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2987 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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It was mentioned in the Swedish media as well. It may have been deliberate, but if not, it was at least an example of lack of coordination, which would be strange, all things considered. More and more of Tegnell's former supporters seem to be leaving the sinking ship. Tom Britton is just the latest example. They all know that the only justification for the Swedish strategy was the expectation of herd immunity, which was somehow supposed to make the death toll in March, April, May and June a price worth paying. It was the one thing that was supposed to make Sweden able to sit back and relax while the pandemic caught up with Sweden's neighbors because ... well, it was just bound to do so, wasn't it?! I do not doubt at all that Tegnell and Giesecke hate the other Nordic countries for not living up to their high hopes of a disastrous second wave in the other countries that could make Sweden's disaster seem to have served its delusional purpose. At this point, all Tegnell has got going for his strategy is the claim that it is impossible to know why things turned out the way they did in Sweden, but the reason has become more and more obvious for everybody. I am hoping for a whistleblower in the Public Health Agency to step up and reveal what has been going on inside the agency for the past nine months. Then the others will try to distance themselves from him, and a new consensus will be established. But so far, the Public Health Agency has seemed to work much like the Republican Party in the USA. Tegnell has been allowed to carry on as "corona czar" no matter how obvious it was that his strategy has been failing all the way. Sweden is supposed to be one of the most enlightened countries in the world when it comes to whistleblowing, but I am not sure that this is actually true. To me, whistleblowing seems to go against the grain of Swedish nationalism and consensus culture. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2988 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2989 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,827
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That is simply not true. Tuberculosis is airborne yet you won't catch it outside in the wind. You have to breathe in a concentrated amount of droplet nuclei (not to be confused with droplets in droplet spread) in order for enough of the TB bacillus to make it to the alveoli which has the conditions it requires to start an infection.
The rest of my answer is in the COVID medicine thread. |
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Trump lost and he knows it.
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#2990 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,827
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Trump lost and he knows it.
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#2991 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,827
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Trump lost and he knows it.
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#2992 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Sunday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Nov. 29, 2020) Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical Denmark: 143 (829) 998* 43 *based on 54,691 tests, positive 1.82 %.. Fewer cases, but based on fewer tests. Iceland: 76 (26) 10 2 Finland: 71 (393) 322 19 Norway: 60 (328) 282 36 Iceland has 187 active cases, Faroe Islands 4, New Zealand 69. The Faroe Islands have 7 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2993 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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It is actually worse than that. As a theory, the herd immunity strategy managed to convince Swedish society, the government as well as the regions, politicians as well as epidemiologists and other infectious-disease experts, that there would be no second wave and that it would thus be unnecessary to use the respite of the summer months to get more PPE and testing capacity. So even at this point, Sweden still is not testing as much as they should have been doing. Anders Tegnell's legacy will be similar to Donald Trump's. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2994 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,827
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I can't believe we still don't have enough PPE for the hospitals here in WA State, especially for the nursing homes. And it looked like there would be enough testing capacity until people thought they might be able to get tests so they could safely have Thanksgiving dinner with family. But the health department told people not to get tested for that reason so people who might actually be infected could be tested.
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Trump lost and he knows it.
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#2995 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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It makes sense to reserve testing capacity for people who need it the most, obviously, but that should have been a problem (and it was) only at the beginning of the pandemic and not at this point.
And it is the same with PPE. It made sense to tell people not to buy face masks when they were in short supply and needed at the hospitals and in nursing homes, but by now they have had plenty of time to stock face shields and face masks for all hospital and care workers. |
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2996 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2997 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 22,681
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#2998 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,267
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Quote:
I can recommend the whole article, but I have made the journalist aware that this is wrong:
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The first (Swedish?) anti-masker has already objected to the article because of this:
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/dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx |
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#2999 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 20,222
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Rolfe is talking about 'true airborne' diseases, but of course livestock would be outside in a field so then, wind blown disease-carrying viruses/bacteria becomes relevant. However, of course, livestock are rarely indoors, except in their pens and stalls.
If Covid19 is not airborne, how would you explain mink populations across northern Europe carrying the '5-cluster' Covid19 mutation, and passing it on to at least a dozen human individuals? |
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Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! |
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#3000 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Suomi
Posts: 20,222
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This. I was looking at some art gallery paintings recently and was struck by how many artists and their subjects were tublerculosis victims. Now TB is still within living memory of our grandparents - I even knew someone near my age whose father died of TB in a sanatorium - not to mention polio, which was rife especially in Denmark up to the early sixties, and will have also been in Sweden.
Given the relatively modern day scourges of TB and poliomyelitis, which swept across Europe, I struggle to understand how Tegnell can rationalise away his 'pandemic strategy' as being due to 'Covid19 being completely new and unprecedented'. It is just nonsense. They had the tools - previous dangerous contagious diseases, together with their medical studies thereof in order to qualify and specialise in that very topic - they had the know-how: they knew exactly what needs to be done to limit the spread of the disease. It is just infuriating to see experts adopt the 'do nothing' approach, even if the likes of Johnson, Bolsanaro (_sp?) and Trump could be forgiven (humph!) as being ignorant and uncaring self-serving politicians. |
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Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på! |
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