Water in Flint Michegan resembles urine.

catsmate · 3rd October 2015, 02:25 AM

Flint is a poor town, with about 42% of the populating living in defined poverty. Now the water is possibly poisoning people, with high levels of lead and an appearance that's been described as "like urine" and smelling "like a sewer". The water problem isn't new but a public health emergency has been declared after doctors spoke out about the elevated levels of lead. The water should be filtered before being ingested.
The problems aren't new; rashes, hair loss, and other health problems have been reported for over a year. Indeed the General Motors engine plant stopped using the city's water due to it's corrosive effect on vehicle parts (link).

Up to last year the town was paying Detroit for its water supply but this ended due to a dispute over costs. Currently the public water supply is sourced from the Flint river (one of the most polluted in the USA). One cause for the lead is pollutants from the river interacting with unreplaced lead pipes to release water soluble lead salts. The FWTP also has had to add extreme levels of chlorine to drinking water to kill bacteria in the river water, this has in the past led to very high levels of trihalomethanes in the treated water.

Detroit News

Beerina · 3rd October 2015, 03:05 AM

The suburbs are furious at the city of Detroit because they keep jacking up water rates yet leave tens of millions of dollars uncollected from their own citizens.

Flint is an hour north, I'm surprised they are (were) on city water.

catsmate · 17th February 2016, 03:32 AM

Bump. It seems that in addition to delivering leaded water the utility who did so grossly overcharged people for the privilege of ingesting a toxic heavy metal in their water. In a report by Food and Water Watch (link) Flint's water was the most expensive of the 500 largest US water systems, costing US$864 for a typical household. That's nearly twice the US national average (US$501 for private water systems and US$316 for public water systems) and more than three times the cost to families in nearby Detroit. In fact the lead contaminated water cost ten times as much as water in Phoenix.

Detroit Free Press.

Upchurch · 17th February 2016, 05:10 AM

I've been following this story only passively. Is anyone offering a defense for what has been happening?

Sideroxylon · 17th February 2016, 05:12 AM

Small government and invisible hand capitalism success story?

Upchurch · 17th February 2016, 05:23 AM

Admittedly, not what I was expecting.

catsmate · 17th February 2016, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

I've been following this story only passively. Is anyone offering a defense for what has been happening?

Money. There's a lot of blame passing.

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Small government and invisible hand capitalism success story?

Yeah.

Seismosaurus · 17th February 2016, 06:57 AM

Why is it that the failures of government are always taken as proof that government is incompetent and should be minimalised, but the failures of capitalism are always taken as just being a feature of the system?

Skeptic Ginger · 17th February 2016, 07:45 AM

To add insult to injury: A Brief History of Nestle’s Water Battles in Michigan

Quote:

In North America, bottled water companies like Nestlé Waters have been able to secure control over underground aquifers and streams by taking advantage of an archaic patch work of regulatory regimes. One of these is called the “rule of capture.” According this law, “ground water is the private property of the owner of the overlying land” and they “have the right to capture the ground water beneath their land.” It is also known as the ‘law of the biggest pump’ because the landowner with the largest pumping capacity “can dry up the adjoining landowner’s well.”

Nestle finds well water locations for it's bottled water plants and pumps hundreds of gallons a minute from local aquifers for free. They have one not too far from Flint that was involved in a ten year court battle after they moved in against the wishes of the locals and started draining the aquifer.

It cost the locals a million dollars that they raised through bake sales and raffles. Nestle harassed some of them with SLAPP lawsuits (strategic lawsuit against public participation) claiming they were defamed.

Another aspect of this corruption caused disaster is one of the reasons Flint went into debt requiring the emergency manager was the state took a larger share of the tax revenue (by decreasing the revenue sharing with cities) conveniently giving the governor a budget surplus he then bragged about.

Flint Is the Predicted Outcome of Michigan’s Long, Dangerous History With ‘Emergency Managers’

Quote:

Then, in 2005, the right-wing think tank Mackinac Center for Public Policy advocated that law be broadened to grant EMs the power to take over all aspects of local government, including the power to unilaterally reject collective-bargaining agreements, and to insulate EMs from any resulting legal liability. By 2011, Snyder had been elected governor, and Republicans had taken control of both the State Senate and House. One of their first orders of business was to dramatically expand the law along the lines proposed by the Mackinac Center. The EM law soon came to be seen as a vehicle for corporate privatization, with a 2011 New York Times investigation revealing that EM training sessions were “run primarily by representatives from companies who stand to benefit financially.”

As EM appointments increased sharply due to state-imposed cutbacks in local revenue-sharing as well as the impact of the Great Recession, numerous red flags were raised.

paulhutch · 17th February 2016, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

I've been following this story only passively. Is anyone offering a defense for what has been happening?

The defense I've seen is that Flint saved millions of dollars by not buying water from Detroit while waiting for their new supply to be ready. By not putting in the anti-corrosion chemicals during treatment they saved an additional 10 thousand dollars. Now that they've dissolved all the protective coating on the lead water mains they're looking at 1 billion plus dollars to fix the system.

Just found what appears to be a well sourced new article on Wikipedia about the whole situation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

elbe · 17th February 2016, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by paulhutch

The defense I've seen is that Flint saved millions of dollars by not buying water from Detroit while waiting for their new supply to be ready. By not putting in the anti-corrosion chemicals during treatment they saved an additional 10 thousand dollars. Now that they've dissolved all the protective coating on the lead water mains they're looking at 1 billion plus dollars to fix the system.

Just found what appears to be a well sourced new article on Wikipedia about the whole situation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

After they told Detroit they were going to switch to the river DWSD offered a new plan that would, according to them, save them 20% over the KWA river proposal over 30 years.

Cain · 17th February 2016, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Seismosaurus

Why is it that the failures of government are always taken as proof that government is incompetent and should be minimalised, but the failures of capitalism are always taken as just being a feature of the system?

Because that's the REALITY. Deal with it. A is A.

paulhutch · 17th February 2016, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by elbe

After they told Detroit they were going to switch to the river DWSD offered a new plan that would, according to them, save them 20% over the KWA river proposal over 30 years.

Wow

catsmate · 21st March 2016, 03:42 AM

On 28 December there was a "mysterious" break-in at the Flint City Hall; the only room entered was the (currently vacant" office where the city's water files were kept. Flint's chief of police has said of the burglary, it was "definitely an inside job". Documents were left strewn around the office.
More.

ddt · 21st March 2016, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

On 28 December there was a "mysterious" break-in at the Flint City Hall; the only room entered was the (currently vacant" office where the city's water files were kept. Flint's chief of police has said of the burglary, it was "definitely an inside job". Documents were left strewn around the office.
More.

They seem to awfully focus on the TV power cord that was left there as an indication it's not an ordinary burglary. Maybe I know too little about how burglars operate, but it seems like weak sauce. Who doesn't have some spare power cords at home from appliances they've thrown away? I have a box full of them...

casebro · 21st March 2016, 07:58 AM

Maybe somebody passing by saw the TV through the window, broke in and stole it? Xmas present for the family. Smash and grab, no time to sort out the cords.

Or, instead of stealing files to hide evidence, maybe a whistle blower stole files to have evidential proof later?

catsmate · 2nd August 2016, 02:35 AM

Bump.
Now rubbish is piling up on the streets after collections ended yesterday after a dispute over the award of a collection contract between the major and the city council ended in legal action.
More.

Maya22 · 27th September 2016, 05:30 PM

A Timeline of the Water Crisis in Flint, Michigan

Darth Rotor · 27th September 2016, 08:29 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFbS_jdSl0

Tom Lehrer was 50 years ahead of his time. (Or maybe, this stuff never really changes?)

ponderingturtle · 20th December 2016, 10:19 AM

4 officials have been charged over this. Seems the Michigan attorney generals office and congress disagree about who is at fault.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/20/health...ged/index.html

SuburbanTurkey · 12th January 2021, 12:57 PM

Arise thread!

Quote:

BREAKING DETROIT (AP) -- The AP has learned ex-Michigan Gov. Snyder and others have been told they’re being charged in Flint water scandal.

https://twitter.com/DavidEggert00/st...76574897844226

Checkmite · 12th January 2021, 10:47 PM

Well, now. The wheels of Justice certainly took their time on this one.

catsmate · 13th January 2021, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Well, now. The wheels of Justice certainly took their time on this one.

Four years of obstruction are coming to an end.

arthwollipot · 14th January 2021, 06:07 PM

Nine US officials including Michigan ex-governor charged over Flint water crisis deaths

Quote:

Nine US officials — including former Michigan governor Rick Snyder and key members of his administration — have been charged following a new investigation into the Flint water disaster that contaminated the US city with lead and left 12 people dead.

The 12 residents of the predominately African-American community died after city officials implemented a cost-cutting plan in 2014 to switch the water supply to the contaminated Flint River.

Authorities say at least 90 cases of Legionnaires' disease are also linked to the plan.

Nine former state and local officials pleaded not guilty in Genesee County courts on Thursday to a total of 42 criminal counts.

The charges are the culmination of a years-long criminal investigation that ran parallel to civil litigation.

The civil proceedings last year yielded a settlement worth more than US$600 million ($771 million) for victims of the water crisis.

theprestige · 14th January 2021, 06:27 PM

Just to be clear: "US official" in this context doesn't mean "official in the US government". It means "a government official from the US." For example, Rick Snyder was a Michigan state official.

Susheel · Yesterday, 12:28 AM

Wasn't Flint Michigan established as a symbol of how capitalist private enterprise based policies could be the path to economic and social progress way back in the Reaganite era?

GodMark2 · Yesterday, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Susheel

Wasn't Flint Michigan established as a symbol of how capitalist private enterprise based policies could be the path to economic and social progress way back in the Reaganite era?

In my opinion, it still is. Just the tone has changed from "This is as good as it gets!

" to "This is as good as it gets?

".

SuburbanTurkey · Today, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by GodMark2

In my opinion, it still is. Just the tone has changed from "This is as good as it gets!

" to "This is as good as it gets?

".

Truly an absurd situation. A city located in close proximity to the largest sources of fresh water on the planet and can't get a clean drop to drink.

Sometimes the invisible hand of the free market makes a fist. This must be deeply radicalizing for the people of the city, I don't know how you can trust any authority figures after something like this.

3rd October 2015, 02:25 AM	#1
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,419	Water in Flint Michegan resembles urine. Flint is a poor town, with about 42% of the populating living in defined poverty. Now the water is possibly poisoning people, with high levels of lead and an appearance that's been described as "like urine" and smelling "like a sewer". The water problem isn't new but a public health emergency has been declared after doctors spoke out about the elevated levels of lead. The water should be filtered before being ingested. The problems aren't new; rashes, hair loss, and other health problems have been reported for over a year. Indeed the General Motors engine plant stopped using the city's water due to it's corrosive effect on vehicle parts (link). Up to last year the town was paying Detroit for its water supply but this ended due to a dispute over costs. Currently the public water supply is sourced from the Flint river (one of the most polluted in the USA). One cause for the lead is pollutants from the river interacting with unreplaced lead pipes to release water soluble lead salts. The FWTP also has had to add extreme levels of chlorine to drinking water to kill bacteria in the river water, this has in the past led to very high levels of trihalomethanes in the treated water. Detroit News
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

3rd October 2015, 03:05 AM	#2
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 30,293	The suburbs are furious at the city of Detroit because they keep jacking up water rates yet leave tens of millions of dollars uncollected from their own citizens. Flint is an hour north, I'm surprised they are (were) on city water.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

17th February 2016, 03:32 AM	#3
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,419	Bump. It seems that in addition to delivering leaded water the utility who did so grossly overcharged people for the privilege of ingesting a toxic heavy metal in their water. In a report by Food and Water Watch (link) Flint's water was the most expensive of the 500 largest US water systems, costing US$864 for a typical household. That's nearly twice the US national average (US$501 for private water systems and US$316 for public water systems) and more than three times the cost to families in nearby Detroit. In fact the lead contaminated water cost ten times as much as water in Phoenix. Detroit Free Press.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

17th February 2016, 05:10 AM	#4
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 32,349	I've been following this story only passively. Is anyone offering a defense for what has been happening?
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

17th February 2016, 05:23 AM	#6
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 32,349	Admittedly, not what I was expecting.
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

17th February 2016, 05:12 AM	#5
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,110	Small government and invisible hand capitalism success story?

17th February 2016, 05:24 AM	#7
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,419	Originally Posted by Upchurch I've been following this story only passively. Is anyone offering a defense for what has been happening? Money. There's a lot of blame passing. Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Small government and invisible hand capitalism success story? Yeah.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

17th February 2016, 06:57 AM	#8
Seismosaurus Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 6,092	Why is it that the failures of government are always taken as proof that government is incompetent and should be minimalised, but the failures of capitalism are always taken as just being a feature of the system?
	__________________ Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal She carries beauty in her soul

17th February 2016, 07:45 AM	#9
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,682	To add insult to injury: A Brief History of Nestle’s Water Battles in Michigan Quote: In North America, bottled water companies like Nestlé Waters have been able to secure control over underground aquifers and streams by taking advantage of an archaic patch work of regulatory regimes. One of these is called the “rule of capture.” According this law, “ground water is the private property of the owner of the overlying land” and they “have the right to capture the ground water beneath their land.” It is also known as the ‘law of the biggest pump’ because the landowner with the largest pumping capacity “can dry up the adjoining landowner’s well.” Nestle finds well water locations for it's bottled water plants and pumps hundreds of gallons a minute from local aquifers for free. They have one not too far from Flint that was involved in a ten year court battle after they moved in against the wishes of the locals and started draining the aquifer. It cost the locals a million dollars that they raised through bake sales and raffles. Nestle harassed some of them with SLAPP lawsuits (strategic lawsuit against public participation) claiming they were defamed. Another aspect of this corruption caused disaster is one of the reasons Flint went into debt requiring the emergency manager was the state took a larger share of the tax revenue (by decreasing the revenue sharing with cities) conveniently giving the governor a budget surplus he then bragged about. Flint Is the Predicted Outcome of Michigan’s Long, Dangerous History With ‘Emergency Managers’ Quote: Then, in 2005, the right-wing think tank Mackinac Center for Public Policy advocated that law be broadened to grant EMs the power to take over all aspects of local government, including the power to unilaterally reject collective-bargaining agreements, and to insulate EMs from any resulting legal liability. By 2011, Snyder had been elected governor, and Republicans had taken control of both the State Senate and House. One of their first orders of business was to dramatically expand the law along the lines proposed by the Mackinac Center. The EM law soon came to be seen as a vehicle for corporate privatization, with a 2011 New York Times investigation revealing that EM training sessions were “run primarily by representatives from companies who stand to benefit financially.” As EM appointments increased sharply due to state-imposed cutbacks in local revenue-sharing as well as the impact of the Great Recession, numerous red flags were raised.
	__________________ Trump lost and he knows it.

17th February 2016, 08:23 AM	#10
paulhutch Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA Posts: 2,298	Originally Posted by Upchurch I've been following this story only passively. Is anyone offering a defense for what has been happening? The defense I've seen is that Flint saved millions of dollars by not buying water from Detroit while waiting for their new supply to be ready. By not putting in the anti-corrosion chemicals during treatment they saved an additional 10 thousand dollars. Now that they've dissolved all the protective coating on the lead water mains they're looking at 1 billion plus dollars to fix the system. Just found what appears to be a well sourced new article on Wikipedia about the whole situation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

17th February 2016, 11:04 AM	#11
elbe Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,983	Originally Posted by paulhutch The defense I've seen is that Flint saved millions of dollars by not buying water from Detroit while waiting for their new supply to be ready. By not putting in the anti-corrosion chemicals during treatment they saved an additional 10 thousand dollars. Now that they've dissolved all the protective coating on the lead water mains they're looking at 1 billion plus dollars to fix the system. Just found what appears to be a well sourced new article on Wikipedia about the whole situation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis After they told Detroit they were going to switch to the river DWSD offered a new plan that would, according to them, save them 20% over the KWA river proposal over 30 years.
elbe Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,983	__________________ "Take the weakest thing in you and beat the bastards with it" realityisnotadditive... blog... thingy...

17th February 2016, 11:29 AM	#12
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,205	Originally Posted by Seismosaurus Why is it that the failures of government are always taken as proof that government is incompetent and should be minimalised, but the failures of capitalism are always taken as just being a feature of the system? Because that's the REALITY. Deal with it. A is A.
	__________________ April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.

17th February 2016, 01:21 PM	#13
paulhutch Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA Posts: 2,298	Originally Posted by elbe After they told Detroit they were going to switch to the river DWSD offered a new plan that would, according to them, save them 20% over the KWA river proposal over 30 years. Wow

21st March 2016, 03:42 AM	#14
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,419	On 28 December there was a "mysterious" break-in at the Flint City Hall; the only room entered was the (currently vacant" office where the city's water files were kept. Flint's chief of police has said of the burglary, it was "definitely an inside job". Documents were left strewn around the office. More.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

21st March 2016, 04:57 AM	#15
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 19,576	Originally Posted by catsmate On 28 December there was a "mysterious" break-in at the Flint City Hall; the only room entered was the (currently vacant" office where the city's water files were kept. Flint's chief of police has said of the burglary, it was "definitely an inside job". Documents were left strewn around the office. More. They seem to awfully focus on the TV power cord that was left there as an indication it's not an ordinary burglary. Maybe I know too little about how burglars operate, but it seems like weak sauce. Who doesn't have some spare power cords at home from appliances they've thrown away? I have a box full of them...
	__________________ "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen

21st March 2016, 07:58 AM	#16
casebro Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 18,534	Maybe somebody passing by saw the TV through the window, broke in and stole it? Xmas present for the family. Smash and grab, no time to sort out the cords. Or, instead of stealing files to hide evidence, maybe a whistle blower stole files to have evidential proof later?
	__________________ Any sufficiently advanced idea is indistinguishable from idiocy to those who don't actually understanding the concept.

2nd August 2016, 02:35 AM	#17
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,419	Bump. Now rubbish is piling up on the streets after collections ended yesterday after a dispute over the award of a collection contract between the major and the city council ended in legal action. More.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

27th September 2016, 05:30 PM	#18
Maya22 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Teal Town Posts: 1,446	A Timeline of the Water Crisis in Flint, Michigan
	__________________ "We take care of our world by taking care of each other — it is as simple and as difficult as that." -Desmond Tutu “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

27th September 2016, 08:29 PM	#19
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 38,527	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFbS_jdSl0 Tom Lehrer was 50 years ahead of his time. (Or maybe, this stuff never really changes?)
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

20th December 2016, 10:19 AM	#20
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,121	4 officials have been charged over this. Seems the Michigan attorney generals office and congress disagree about who is at fault. http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/20/health...ged/index.html
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

12th January 2021, 12:57 PM	#21
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 7,110	Arise thread! Quote: BREAKING DETROIT (AP) -- The AP has learned ex-Michigan Gov. Snyder and others have been told they’re being charged in Flint water scandal. https://twitter.com/DavidEggert00/st...76574897844226
	__________________ Gobble gobble

12th January 2021, 10:47 PM	#22
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,329	Well, now. The wheels of Justice certainly took their time on this one.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

13th January 2021, 04:06 AM	#23
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,419	Originally Posted by Checkmite Well, now. The wheels of Justice certainly took their time on this one. Four years of obstruction are coming to an end.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

14th January 2021, 06:07 PM	#24
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 69,455	Nine US officials including Michigan ex-governor charged over Flint water crisis deaths Quote: Nine US officials — including former Michigan governor Rick Snyder and key members of his administration — have been charged following a new investigation into the Flint water disaster that contaminated the US city with lead and left 12 people dead. The 12 residents of the predominately African-American community died after city officials implemented a cost-cutting plan in 2014 to switch the water supply to the contaminated Flint River. Authorities say at least 90 cases of Legionnaires' disease are also linked to the plan. Nine former state and local officials pleaded not guilty in Genesee County courts on Thursday to a total of 42 criminal counts. The charges are the culmination of a years-long criminal investigation that ran parallel to civil litigation. The civil proceedings last year yielded a settlement worth more than US$600 million ($771 million) for victims of the water crisis.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

14th January 2021, 06:27 PM	#25
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,522	Just to be clear: "US official" in this context doesn't mean "official in the US government". It means "a government official from the US." For example, Rick Snyder was a Michigan state official.

Yesterday, 12:28 AM	#26
Susheel Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 1,714	Wasn't Flint Michigan established as a symbol of how capitalist private enterprise based policies could be the path to economic and social progress way back in the Reaganite era?
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

Yesterday, 01:25 PM	#27
GodMark2 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 2,167	Originally Posted by Susheel Wasn't Flint Michigan established as a symbol of how capitalist private enterprise based policies could be the path to economic and social progress way back in the Reaganite era? In my opinion, it still is. Just the tone has changed from "This is as good as it gets! " to "This is as good as it gets? ".
	__________________ Knowing that we do not know, it does not necessarily follow that we can not know.

Today, 04:01 AM	#28
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 7,110	Originally Posted by GodMark2 In my opinion, it still is. Just the tone has changed from "This is as good as it gets! " to "This is as good as it gets? ". Truly an absurd situation. A city located in close proximity to the largest sources of fresh water on the planet and can't get a clean drop to drink. Sometimes the invisible hand of the free market makes a fist. This must be deeply radicalizing for the people of the city, I don't know how you can trust any authority figures after something like this.
	__________________ Gobble gobble