The post-Trump fascist creep catch-all thread - Page 6

Crossbow · 22nd June 2021, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I don't think Trump enjoyed being president, but it's pretty obvious he really liked campaigning and doing his little mini-Nuremburg rallies. I imagine he'd be pretty content if he could just endlessly tour and bask in the glow of his CHUD followers while hoovering up some cash.

I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life.

Which is really saying something considering that Trump has failed at everything in his life.

At least during his pre-President years, Trump could say and do all sorts of nonsense and various white-collar illegalities, and largely get away with it due in part to his obscurity.

However, once he actually became President Trump, then he essentially invited all types of public scrutiny into every aspect of his life. Including, of course, his numerous criminal activities.

Furthermore, considering how much Trump loves criminal types, the one basic fact that all successful criminals know is that fame does not pay. Because getting fame always invites scrutiny, and in order for a criminal to be successful, then a criminal must avoid scrutiny.

Stacyhs · 22nd June 2021, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life.

Which is really saying something considering that Trump has failed at everything in his life.

At least during his pre-President years, Trump could say and do all sorts of nonsense and various white-collar illegalities, and largely get away with it due in part to his obscurity.

However, once he actually became President Trump, then he essentially invited all types of public scrutiny into every aspect of his life. Including, of course, his numerous criminal activities.

Furthermore, considering how much Trump loves criminal types, the one basic fact that all successful criminals know is that fame does not pay. Because getting fame always invites scrutiny, and in order for a criminal to be successful, then a criminal must avoid scrutiny.

I would call his winning the 2016 election the biggest mistake rather than failure in his life for the very reasons you've stated. I've said for a long time that becoming president is going to come back and bite him in the ass.

While his presidency was certainly a huge ****show and a failure for the country, it was not for the Republicans. They gained much, including 3 SC Justices, more tax breaks for the wealthy, etc.

TurkeysGhost · 23rd June 2021, 01:42 PM

Quote:

The Proud Boys are continuing to organize, rally, and engage in violence, in plain sight and often in uniform, despite the intense scrutiny on the far-right street-fighting gang for its alleged role orchestrating the deadly Capitol riot.

VICE News counted 20 public appearances in 13 different cities by the far-right street-fighting gang, including events that they helped organize, since January 6, with Oregon, California, and Florida emerging as hotspots for Proud Boy activity.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkb3...ng-the-capitol

The arrests of J6 was more a personal problem for the specific members of the group involved than it is for the group as a whole. This fascist street gang continues to have armed street rallies, often enjoying extreme leniency from local police while assaulting members of the public.

There's nothing to suggest this particular group, nor fascist groups generally, have been meaningfully undermined by the J6 arrests.

dudalb · 23rd June 2021, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I would call his winning the 2016 election the biggest mistake rather than failure in his life for the very reasons you've stated. I've said for a long time that becoming president is going to come back and bite him in the ass.

While his presidency was certainly a huge ****show and a failure for the country, it was not for the Republicans. They gained much, including 3 SC Justices, more tax breaks for the wealthy, etc.

Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway.
I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won.

Belz... · 23rd June 2021, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway.
I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won.

I think that's quite clear. In fact, even the presidential "win" was a loss for him, in that he didn't want it, it hurt his brand, exposed him to very dangerous litigation, and might end up destroying his father's entire legacy.

Stacyhs · 23rd June 2021, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life.

He may not have expected to win, but I can't call becoming the most powerful man in the world a "failure" for him. I don't believe for one second that Trump didn't really want to win. That goes against everything we know about him: the love of power, of being feared, of being in control, of being the center of attention, and feeling omnipotent. By pretending he didn't want to win, he gave himself a face saving way out if he lost. His initial plan of running and probably losing but still gaining financially due to the attention and publicity was likely why he ran in the first place, but winning was certainly not a failure. But running and winning was a huge mistake on his part if he ends up convicted of a crime or crimes and being incarcerated due to bringing the attention of the SDNY, the woman he raped, Stormy Daniels, etc onto himself.

Belz... · 23rd June 2021, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

He may not have expected to win, but I can't call becoming the most powerful man in the world a "failure" for him. I don't believe for one second that Trump didn't really want to win. That goes against everything we know about him: the love of power, of being feared, of being in control, of being the center of attention, and feeling omnipotent. By pretending he didn't want to win, he gave himself a face saving way out if he lost.

Except that he hates having to actually do stuff, and his finances and dealings being under the microscope. Sure, afterwards he loved the attention, but otherwise I can believe he didn't want to actually win; the campaign was just another grift to make money.

Our report of this comes from private conversations.

Norman Alexander · 23rd June 2021, 05:43 PM

IMHO, T**** was manipulated into running by much smarter GOP operatives, because he is a massive ego attached to a crocodilian brain-stem.

They knew he had a certain cachet with a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill. This was known from before: Reagan & Schwarzenegger both had some acting/TV cred. Disaster Don certainly had TV celebrity cred, even though it was totally scripted and he was promoted and edited to hell and back to make him look "good". Donny was a good sucker for them to play.

They knew if Donny lost the presidential race, he could be safely dropped again, allowing him to go back to his stupid TV career, and his tin-foil crappy business failures in NYC and whatever. There were plenty of other GOP candidates, so he was utterly expendable.

They also knew if he won that they could use him to achieve what they wanted: SC judges and many more besides, all sorts of stuff they had on their agenda that they wanted a cover for.

And sure enough, while Donny cheerfully crapped himself in the Oval Office to keep the cameras on him, it provided great cover for the GOP to push on with their agenda. Donny's legacy will be not only his insane antics but the radical right-wing push to secure permanent hegemony over US government.

Skeptic Ginger · 23rd June 2021, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

IMHO, T**** was manipulated into running by much smarter GOP operatives, because he is a massive ego attached to a crocodilian brain-stem.....

I think these people fall into 2 groups. One group recognizes what a moron Dump is and they are mostly (though not always) successful manipulating him. And the other group kisses his ass because they fear his revenge and/or think by kissing Dump's ass they might be rewarded.

Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult.

Stacyhs · 23rd June 2021, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Except that he hates having to actually do stuff, and his finances and dealings being under the microscope. Sure, afterwards he loved the attention, but otherwise I can believe he didn't want to actually win; the campaign was just another grift to make money.

Our report of this comes from private conversations.

Of course he had no intention to actually govern, but Trump doesn't think past actually 'winning' at whatever he attempts. It's the fight and then winning that motivates him because it reinforces his narcissism that he's the best at everything he ever does.

Michael Cohen wrote in his book that Trump had talked about running for the presidency for years as far back as 2011. Cohen testimony in front of the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

Quote:

"Mr. Trump would often say this campaign was going to be the greatest infomercial in political history," Cohen said in his opening remarks. "He never expected to win the primary. He never expected to win the general election. The campaign for him was always a marketing opportunity."

But that doesn't mean he didn't want to win. He just didn't think he would. Cohen also wrote:

Quote:

“Trump had cheated in the election, with Russian connivance, as you will discover in these pages, because doing anything — and I mean anything — to ‘win’ has always been his business model and way of life.”

Stacyhs · 23rd June 2021, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I think these people fall into 2 groups. One group recognizes what a moron Dump is and they are mostly (though not always) successful manipulating him. And the other group kisses his ass because they fear his revenge and/or think by kissing Dump's ass they might be rewarded.

Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult.

It's always amazed me that anyone could be so blind as to have watched Trump for the last 6 years and not see him for what he is. I guess the saying is true: No one is so blind as he who will not see.

Norman Alexander · 23rd June 2021, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

... a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult.

Exactly so. They are the ones I have already identified above. Cult of personality.

Armitage72 · 24th June 2021, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

They knew he had a certain cachet with a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill. This was known from before: Reagan & Schwarzenegger both had some acting/TV cred.

Also Jesse Ventura. The first time his opponents invited him to participate in a debate, they expected him to make a fool of himself, forgetting that he had decades of experience working behind a microphone and in front of a camera and performing for the public.

ponderingturtle · 24th June 2021, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway.
I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won.

The problem is that this plan is not the plan of a malignant narcissist like trump. This simply goes against everything we know about Trump's fundamental character.

Stacyhs · 24th June 2021, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

The problem is that this plan is not the plan of a malignant narcissist like trump. This simply goes against everything we know about Trump's fundamental character.

Exactly!

TurkeysGhost · 24th June 2021, 09:55 AM

OAN calling for tens of thousands of people to be put to death for committing voter fraud.

https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...25243000365057

Stacyhs · 24th June 2021, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

OAN calling for tens of thousands of people to be put to death for committing voter fraud.

https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...25243000365057

Do you have to fail a mental competency test to work at OAN?

turingtest · 24th June 2021, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

Also Jesse Ventura. The first time his opponents invited him to participate in a debate, they expected him to make a fool of himself, forgetting that he had decades of experience working behind a microphone and in front of a camera and performing for the public.

That's the thing that helped get us Trump, and may be, in the long run, a bigger problem than any one fool- the idea that you don't really have to know anything about policy to be a politician, you don't even really ever have to know what you're talking about- you just have to perform as if you do, and you can count on people mistaking you for someone who actually can. Image over substance has always been a concern, but in these days of social media (and, god save us, social media "influencers"), it's never been as pervasive as today.

Lurch · 24th June 2021, 06:26 PM

America has long lead the way in image-over-substance-as-qualification.

Tero · 26th June 2021, 04:12 AM

Critical Race Theory (did not find a thread with that title) in Iowa:

Quote:

The Iowa legislature has just passed a new law on teaching about racism in the Iowa schools. It is long, vague, and contradictory. It is a confusing, poorly drafted piece of legislation. It is clear, though, that it drastically restricts speech on the part of students and teachers. It is now law, but unlikely to have much legal impact as it is almost certainly unconstitutional and does not include tough enforcement measures.

Yet it still matters. We are losing many of our best college graduates to places like Chicago, Minneapolis, and Texas. Our civic leaders try to win new businesses in the state yet employers are unlikely to invest in a state that looks like Mississippi, only with cold weather.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/180574

TurkeysGhost · 29th June 2021, 10:35 AM

US Rep. Paul Gosar is more openly allying himself with fascist elements among the right wing. He has been seen openly associating with white nationalist Nick Fuentes and helping raise money for the fascist America First PAC.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...st/7792323002/

Trebuchet · 29th June 2021, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tero

Critical Race Theory (did not find a thread with that title) in Iowa:

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/180574

Here you go. I've avoided reading it.

dudalb · 30th June 2021, 02:19 PM

A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly.
It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom.

Norman Alexander · 30th June 2021, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly.
It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom.

It's better than the fairy tales that underlie Mormonism. And Mormonism totally dominates politics in a number of western US states. So worrying about CRT while completely ignoring the much bigger and clearly extant nonsense that is Mormonism is, frankly, hypocritical.

Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube".

BobTheCoward · 30th June 2021, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by turingtest

That's the thing that helped get us Trump, and may be, in the long run, a bigger problem than any one fool- the idea that you don't really have to know anything about policy to be a politician, you don't even really ever have to know what you're talking about- you just have to perform as if you do, and you can count on people mistaking you for someone who actually can. Image over substance has always been a concern, but in these days of social media (and, god save us, social media "influencers"), it's never been as pervasive as today.

Except trump had a bad image and bad performances. I have never been able to see the appeal.

Belz... · 1st July 2021, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube".

Glad I'm not the only one with that affliction!

BobTheCoward · 1st July 2021, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

US Rep. Paul Gosar is more openly allying himself with fascist elements among the right wing. He has been seen openly associating with white nationalist Nick Fuentes and helping raise money for the fascist America First PAC.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...st/7792323002/

I'm having trouble finding evidence they are fascist.

Crossbow · 1st July 2021, 09:45 AM

This posting is about Don Jr as opposed to Don Sr, but it shows that the apple does not fall too far from the tree.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donal...071522699.html

Donald Trump Jr. Did It Again With A Ridiculous Take On 'Brittany' Spears’ Conservatorship

Quote:

How many Americans rightly concerned about Brittany Spears’ conservatorship had no problems with America’s conservatorship under blue state governors for the past year???
I’m guessing close to 100%

First, he misspelled Spears first name. Which is not surprising since Trump Sr has misspelled his own name, the name of his third wife, and numerous other words as well.

Second, he tried to make some sort of weird equivalence between the trouble that Spears has been having with her father, and Democrat governors. Which is the sort of weird thing that Trump Sr is famous for frequently doing.

Third, Trump Jr issued this public tirade in order to appeal to Trump Sr, but instead he just made a public fool of himself. And making a public fool of himself is something that his father is quite good.

Norman Alexander · 1st July 2021, 03:55 PM

Wouldn't mind betting that most of the recent public T**** tirades against his various perceived enemies were penned by Don Jr instead. They have the same flavour and un-nuanced lunacy combined with an ability to string a basic sentence together which we know the tiny-handed one does not have.

ahhell · 2nd July 2021, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

It's better than the fairy tales that underlie Mormonism. And Mormonism totally dominates politics in a number of western US states. So worrying about CRT while completely ignoring the much bigger and clearly extant nonsense that is Mormonism is, frankly, hypocritical.

Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube".

The dominate politics in one western state, its actually one of the better run states actually. They are also the one group of Reps that have been consistently anti-Trump.

Originally Posted by dudalb

A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly.
It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom.

Its not really a theory of history. There is a philosophical theory and a legal theory. I forget who came up with the line but there's nothing wrong with CRT that can't be fixed by dividing by 10. Which is to say, there is truth in it, it just not nearly as explanatory as many of its proponents think.

ahhell · 2nd July 2021, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I'm having trouble finding evidence they are fascist.

I am amused, from wiki:

Quote:

Fuentes is Catholic, and of Hispanic and Italian descent.

Pretty typical white nationalist.

I'm also amused, remember when the conservative were all panicked about O'bama's association with Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers?

Edit to add, I'm having trouble figuring out what profanity begins with "T".

The Don · 2nd July 2021, 10:28 AM

The most recent ex-president is often referred to as a T followed by 4 asterisks.

There is a four letter profanity beginning with T, it's the opposite of Pan-Am coffee

carlitos · 2nd July 2021, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

I am amused, from wiki:

Quote:

Fuentes is Catholic, and of Hispanic and Italian descent.

Pretty typical white nationalist.

Hispanic and Italian, like Franco and Mussolini?

What Fuentes does is form a gateway into white nationalism by laundering it through his "America First" brand, which might not seem overtly nazi to the uninformed.

link

Quote:

America First and Religious Entryism

AFers characterized themselves as Christian nationalists, meaning that they believe that the US is fundamentally a Christian nation, but elements of their movement reveal even deeper commitments to reactionary ideology. Fuentes has also made statements indicating Holocaust denial and promotes racist ideas (eg, “human biodiversity” and “race realism”) prominent among white nationalists. He also has a particular view of universal Catholic doctrine common among fascists. However, efforts to engage politically with different congregations outside of Catholicism characterize AF’s larger effort to move Trump supporters and the rest of the Republican Party toward white nationalist positions.

Fuentes openly debates other movement members from different congregations, like Pentecostalists and Seventh Day Adventists, about the nuances of revealed doctrine. To people who have expressed support for America First, Fuentes advises remaining discreet about their sympathies, while dropping hints about their beliefs and observing how their cohorts respond. In this way, America First works through entryism not just in college groups, and Turning Point USA most specifically, but also in churches and other right-wing organizations.

Trebuchet · 2nd July 2021, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

This posting is about Don Jr as opposed to Don Sr, but it shows that the apple does not fall too far from the tree.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donal...071522699.html

Donald Trump Jr. Did It Again With A Ridiculous Take On 'Brittany' Spears’ Conservatorship

First, he misspelled Spears first name. Which is not surprising since Trump Sr has misspelled his own name, the name of his third wife, and numerous other words as well.

Second, he tried to make some sort of weird equivalence between the trouble that Spears has been having with her father, and Democrat governors. Which is the sort of weird thing that Trump Sr is famous for frequently doing.

Third, Trump Jr issued this public tirade in order to appeal to Trump Sr, but instead he just made a public fool of himself. And making a public fool of himself is something that his father is quite good.

Surprising as it may seem, I long ago realized that Junior and Eric are simply not as bright as their old man.

Stacyhs · 2nd July 2021, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Surprising as it may seem, I long ago realized that Junior and Eric are simply not as bright as their old man.

Ivana was sniffing glue, drinking moonshine, and binge reading books with Fabio on the cover during her pregnancies. It's the only explanation.
She was also injecting bleach when she was pregnant with Eric:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1410740695770353668

Warp12 · 3rd July 2021, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Ivana was sniffing glue, drinking moonshine, and binge reading books with Fabio on the cover during her pregnancies. It's the only explanation.
She was also injecting bleach when she was pregnant with Eric:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1410740695770353668

Keep it classy, peeps. Especially when critiquing the character of others.

Stacyhs · 3rd July 2021, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Keep it classy, peeps. Especially when critiquing the character of others.

When the Trump boys and their father stop undermining the very foundation of our Democratic Republic...our elections...with their "Stop the Steal" lies and encouraging an insurrection that resulted in the attack on the Capitol, then I'll worry about how I critique their 'characters'.

Belz... · 6th July 2021, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

When the Trump boys and their father stop undermining the very foundation of our Democratic Republic...our elections...with their "Stop the Steal" lies and encouraging an insurrection that resulted in the attack on the Capitol, then I'll worry about how I critique their 'characters'.

Ah, but you see, "being dramatic" is a sin at least as bad as anything that someone on the right can do.

TurkeysGhost · 6th July 2021, 05:55 AM

Fascists and transphobes (but I repeat myself) join up for a violent anti-trans street rally. Wi Spa, a Korean spa, has become a flashpoint after a woman made a viral video berating the staff for their trans-inclusive policies.

2 people were stabbed, which includes one transphobe that seems to have been stabbed in a case of friendly fire while trying to assist the Proud Boy stabber during a scuffle with antifascist counter-protestors.

https://twitter.com/VPS_Reports/stat...22724193865729

Another fascist snuck up behind a marked member of the press and struck them over the head with a metal pipe. Fortunately the victim was wearing a helmet.

https://twitter.com/VPS_Reports/stat...94265933877261

As these groups become disillusioned with Trump, they will not go away, they will simply gin up new things to be outraged about as pretexts for violent street rallies. In California, "anti-pedophilia" seems to be a common pretext for these fascists to hold violent rallies and label their enemies as unredeemable perverts. Such accusations appeal to those with violent tendencies and is a common whitewashing used by Qanon adherents to soft-sell their extremist beliefs.

The man who committed a broad daylight double stabbing was not arrested by police on scene. Police have not changed their practice of enabling right wing street violence in the aftermath of the Jan6 attack.

kookbreaker · 6th July 2021, 07:05 AM

On July 3rd a group of 150 Nazis not from the are decided to march through Philadelphia. Their March was cut short by counter protesters and the Nazis threw smoke bombs to try and cover attacks on counter protesters. Once they were outnumbered they tried to escape but were stopped by police because they were cramming members into rental trucks. This was a safety violation and a violation of the rental truck agreement.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ladelphia.html

22nd June 2021, 08:31 AM	#201
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 14,447	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I don't think Trump enjoyed being president, but it's pretty obvious he really liked campaigning and doing his little mini-Nuremburg rallies. I imagine he'd be pretty content if he could just endlessly tour and bask in the glow of his CHUD followers while hoovering up some cash. I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life. Which is really saying something considering that Trump has failed at everything in his life. At least during his pre-President years, Trump could say and do all sorts of nonsense and various white-collar illegalities, and largely get away with it due in part to his obscurity. However, once he actually became President Trump, then he essentially invited all types of public scrutiny into every aspect of his life. Including, of course, his numerous criminal activities. Furthermore, considering how much Trump loves criminal types, the one basic fact that all successful criminals know is that fame does not pay. Because getting fame always invites scrutiny, and in order for a criminal to be successful, then a criminal must avoid scrutiny.
	__________________ On 29JUL2022, 'Gaetan' said: "We all know here that the moderators are for the use of firearms and they don't mind if some people recieve a bullet in their head." A man's best friend is his dogma.

23rd June 2021, 01:42 PM	#203
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,634	Quote: The Proud Boys are continuing to organize, rally, and engage in violence, in plain sight and often in uniform, despite the intense scrutiny on the far-right street-fighting gang for its alleged role orchestrating the deadly Capitol riot. VICE News counted 20 public appearances in 13 different cities by the far-right street-fighting gang, including events that they helped organize, since January 6, with Oregon, California, and Florida emerging as hotspots for Proud Boy activity. https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkb3...ng-the-capitol The arrests of J6 was more a personal problem for the specific members of the group involved than it is for the group as a whole. This fascist street gang continues to have armed street rallies, often enjoying extreme leniency from local police while assaulting members of the public. There's nothing to suggest this particular group, nor fascist groups generally, have been meaningfully undermined by the J6 arrests.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

23rd June 2021, 02:18 PM	#205
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by dudalb Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway. I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won. I think that's quite clear. In fact, even the presidential "win" was a loss for him, in that he didn't want it, it hurt his brand, exposed him to very dangerous litigation, and might end up destroying his father's entire legacy.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

23rd June 2021, 05:31 PM	#207
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by Stacyhs He may not have expected to win, but I can't call becoming the most powerful man in the world a "failure" for him. I don't believe for one second that Trump didn't really want to win. That goes against everything we know about him: the love of power, of being feared, of being in control, of being the center of attention, and feeling omnipotent. By pretending he didn't want to win, he gave himself a face saving way out if he lost. Except that he hates having to actually do stuff, and his finances and dealings being under the microscope. Sure, afterwards he loved the attention, but otherwise I can believe he didn't want to actually win; the campaign was just another grift to make money. Our report of this comes from private conversations.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

23rd June 2021, 05:43 PM	#208
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,982	IMHO, T**** was manipulated into running by much smarter GOP operatives, because he is a massive ego attached to a crocodilian brain-stem. They knew he had a certain cachet with a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill. This was known from before: Reagan & Schwarzenegger both had some acting/TV cred. Disaster Don certainly had TV celebrity cred, even though it was totally scripted and he was promoted and edited to hell and back to make him look "good". Donny was a good sucker for them to play. They knew if Donny lost the presidential race, he could be safely dropped again, allowing him to go back to his stupid TV career, and his tin-foil crappy business failures in NYC and whatever. There were plenty of other GOP candidates, so he was utterly expendable. They also knew if he won that they could use him to achieve what they wanted: SC judges and many more besides, all sorts of stuff they had on their agenda that they wanted a cover for. And sure enough, while Donny cheerfully crapped himself in the Oval Office to keep the cameras on him, it provided great cover for the GOP to push on with their agenda. Donny's legacy will be not only his insane antics but the radical right-wing push to secure permanent hegemony over US government.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

22nd June 2021, 10:42 AM	#202
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Originally Posted by Crossbow I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life. Which is really saying something considering that Trump has failed at everything in his life. At least during his pre-President years, Trump could say and do all sorts of nonsense and various white-collar illegalities, and largely get away with it due in part to his obscurity. However, once he actually became President Trump, then he essentially invited all types of public scrutiny into every aspect of his life. Including, of course, his numerous criminal activities. Furthermore, considering how much Trump loves criminal types, the one basic fact that all successful criminals know is that fame does not pay. Because getting fame always invites scrutiny, and in order for a criminal to be successful, then a criminal must avoid scrutiny. I would call his winning the 2016 election the biggest mistake rather than failure in his life for the very reasons you've stated. I've said for a long time that becoming president is going to come back and bite him in the ass. While his presidency was certainly a huge ****show and a failure for the country, it was not for the Republicans. They gained much, including 3 SC Justices, more tax breaks for the wealthy, etc.

23rd June 2021, 01:48 PM	#204
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I would call his winning the 2016 election the biggest mistake rather than failure in his life for the very reasons you've stated. I've said for a long time that becoming president is going to come back and bite him in the ass. While his presidency was certainly a huge ****show and a failure for the country, it was not for the Republicans. They gained much, including 3 SC Justices, more tax breaks for the wealthy, etc. Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway. I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won.

23rd June 2021, 04:35 PM	#206
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Quote: Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post I think that Trump becoming the President was the single biggest failure of his life. He may not have expected to win, but I can't call becoming the most powerful man in the world a "failure" for him. I don't believe for one second that Trump didn't really want to win. That goes against everything we know about him: the love of power, of being feared, of being in control, of being the center of attention, and feeling omnipotent. By pretending he didn't want to win, he gave himself a face saving way out if he lost. His initial plan of running and probably losing but still gaining financially due to the attention and publicity was likely why he ran in the first place, but winning was certainly not a failure. But running and winning was a huge mistake on his part if he ends up convicted of a crime or crimes and being incarcerated due to bringing the attention of the SDNY, the woman he raped, Stormy Daniels, etc onto himself.

23rd June 2021, 06:10 PM	#209
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,946	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander IMHO, T**** was manipulated into running by much smarter GOP operatives, because he is a massive ego attached to a crocodilian brain-stem..... I think these people fall into 2 groups. One group recognizes what a moron Dump is and they are mostly (though not always) successful manipulating him. And the other group kisses his ass because they fear his revenge and/or think by kissing Dump's ass they might be rewarded. Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 23rd June 2021 at 06:12 PM.

23rd June 2021, 06:53 PM	#210
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Originally Posted by Belz... Except that he hates having to actually do stuff, and his finances and dealings being under the microscope. Sure, afterwards he loved the attention, but otherwise I can believe he didn't want to actually win; the campaign was just another grift to make money. Our report of this comes from private conversations. Of course he had no intention to actually govern, but Trump doesn't think past actually 'winning' at whatever he attempts. It's the fight and then winning that motivates him because it reinforces his narcissism that he's the best at everything he ever does. Michael Cohen wrote in his book that Trump had talked about running for the presidency for years as far back as 2011. Cohen testimony in front of the House Oversight and Reform Committee. Quote: "Mr. Trump would often say this campaign was going to be the greatest infomercial in political history," Cohen said in his opening remarks. "He never expected to win the primary. He never expected to win the general election. The campaign for him was always a marketing opportunity." But that doesn't mean he didn't want to win. He just didn't think he would. Cohen also wrote: Quote: “Trump had cheated in the election, with Russian connivance, as you will discover in these pages, because doing anything — and I mean anything — to ‘win’ has always been his business model and way of life.”

23rd June 2021, 06:55 PM	#211
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I think these people fall into 2 groups. One group recognizes what a moron Dump is and they are mostly (though not always) successful manipulating him. And the other group kisses his ass because they fear his revenge and/or think by kissing Dump's ass they might be rewarded. Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult. It's always amazed me that anyone could be so blind as to have watched Trump for the last 6 years and not see him for what he is. I guess the saying is true: No one is so blind as he who will not see.
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 23rd June 2021 at 06:57 PM.

23rd June 2021, 07:30 PM	#212
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,982	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander ... a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Maybe I should add a 3rd group. Those would be the morons like him who believe he's the 2nd coming and have joined the cult. Exactly so. They are the ones I have already identified above. Cult of personality.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

24th June 2021, 06:33 AM	#213
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,825	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander They knew he had a certain cachet with a large group of Americans for whom a loud mouth and celebrity is equated with capability and skill. This was known from before: Reagan & Schwarzenegger both had some acting/TV cred. Also Jesse Ventura. The first time his opponents invited him to participate in a debate, they expected him to make a fool of himself, forgetting that he had decades of experience working behind a microphone and in front of a camera and performing for the public.

24th June 2021, 08:27 AM	#214
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 53,072	Originally Posted by dudalb Trump as President badly hurt the Trump Brand, which was in trouble anyway. I keep on reading Trump did not really want to be President, and never thought the could win in the General election. He though by getting the GOP nomination and then losing but making a decent showing would give him new prestige and refurbish the brand,and he was shocked when he actually won. The problem is that this plan is not the plan of a malignant narcissist like trump. This simply goes against everything we know about Trump's fundamental character.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

24th June 2021, 09:03 AM	#215
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle The problem is that this plan is not the plan of a malignant narcissist like trump. This simply goes against everything we know about Trump's fundamental character. Exactly!

24th June 2021, 09:55 AM	#216
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,634	OAN calling for tens of thousands of people to be put to death for committing voter fraud. https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...25243000365057
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

24th June 2021, 10:18 AM	#217
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey OAN calling for tens of thousands of people to be put to death for committing voter fraud. https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...25243000365057 Do you have to fail a mental competency test to work at OAN?

24th June 2021, 10:37 AM	#218
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded and embattled, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 5,184	Originally Posted by Armitage72 Also Jesse Ventura. The first time his opponents invited him to participate in a debate, they expected him to make a fool of himself, forgetting that he had decades of experience working behind a microphone and in front of a camera and performing for the public. That's the thing that helped get us Trump, and may be, in the long run, a bigger problem than any one fool- the idea that you don't really have to know anything about policy to be a politician, you don't even really ever have to know what you're talking about- you just have to perform as if you do, and you can count on people mistaking you for someone who actually can. Image over substance has always been a concern, but in these days of social media (and, god save us, social media "influencers"), it's never been as pervasive as today.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

24th June 2021, 06:26 PM	#219
Lurch Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 2,411	America has long lead the way in image-over-substance-as-qualification.

26th June 2021, 04:12 AM	#220
Tero Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 3,076	Critical Race Theory (did not find a thread with that title) in Iowa: Quote: The Iowa legislature has just passed a new law on teaching about racism in the Iowa schools. It is long, vague, and contradictory. It is a confusing, poorly drafted piece of legislation. It is clear, though, that it drastically restricts speech on the part of students and teachers. It is now law, but unlikely to have much legal impact as it is almost certainly unconstitutional and does not include tough enforcement measures. Yet it still matters. We are losing many of our best college graduates to places like Chicago, Minneapolis, and Texas. Our civic leaders try to win new businesses in the state yet employers are unlikely to invest in a state that looks like Mississippi, only with cold weather. https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/180574
	__________________ Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh! Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/ Parody: http://karireport.blogspot.com/ Poll: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...proval-rating/

29th June 2021, 10:35 AM	#221
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,634	US Rep. Paul Gosar is more openly allying himself with fascist elements among the right wing. He has been seen openly associating with white nationalist Nick Fuentes and helping raise money for the fascist America First PAC. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...st/7792323002/
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

29th June 2021, 10:40 AM	#222
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 36,535	Originally Posted by Tero Critical Race Theory (did not find a thread with that title) in Iowa: https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/180574 Here you go. I've avoided reading it.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

30th June 2021, 02:19 PM	#223
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly. It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom.

30th June 2021, 07:38 PM	#224
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,982	Originally Posted by dudalb A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly. It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom. It's better than the fairy tales that underlie Mormonism. And Mormonism totally dominates politics in a number of western US states. So worrying about CRT while completely ignoring the much bigger and clearly extant nonsense that is Mormonism is, frankly, hypocritical. Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube".
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

30th June 2021, 11:25 PM	#225
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by turingtest That's the thing that helped get us Trump, and may be, in the long run, a bigger problem than any one fool- the idea that you don't really have to know anything about policy to be a politician, you don't even really ever have to know what you're talking about- you just have to perform as if you do, and you can count on people mistaking you for someone who actually can. Image over substance has always been a concern, but in these days of social media (and, god save us, social media "influencers"), it's never been as pervasive as today. Except trump had a bad image and bad performances. I have never been able to see the appeal.
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

1st July 2021, 03:15 AM	#226
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 96,875	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube". Glad I'm not the only one with that affliction!
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

1st July 2021, 06:24 AM	#227
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey US Rep. Paul Gosar is more openly allying himself with fascist elements among the right wing. He has been seen openly associating with white nationalist Nick Fuentes and helping raise money for the fascist America First PAC. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...st/7792323002/ I'm having trouble finding evidence they are fascist.
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

1st July 2021, 09:45 AM	#228
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 14,447	This posting is about Don Jr as opposed to Don Sr, but it shows that the apple does not fall too far from the tree. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donal...071522699.html Donald Trump Jr. Did It Again With A Ridiculous Take On 'Brittany' Spears’ Conservatorship Quote: How many Americans rightly concerned about Brittany Spears’ conservatorship had no problems with America’s conservatorship under blue state governors for the past year??? I’m guessing close to 100% First, he misspelled Spears first name. Which is not surprising since Trump Sr has misspelled his own name, the name of his third wife, and numerous other words as well. Second, he tried to make some sort of weird equivalence between the trouble that Spears has been having with her father, and Democrat governors. Which is the sort of weird thing that Trump Sr is famous for frequently doing. Third, Trump Jr issued this public tirade in order to appeal to Trump Sr, but instead he just made a public fool of himself. And making a public fool of himself is something that his father is quite good.
	__________________ On 29JUL2022, 'Gaetan' said: "We all know here that the moderators are for the use of firearms and they don't mind if some people recieve a bullet in their head." A man's best friend is his dogma.

1st July 2021, 03:55 PM	#229
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,982	Wouldn't mind betting that most of the recent public T**** tirades against his various perceived enemies were penned by Don Jr instead. They have the same flavour and un-nuanced lunacy combined with an ability to string a basic sentence together which we know the tiny-handed one does not have.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

2nd July 2021, 08:08 AM	#230
ahhell Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,291	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander It's better than the fairy tales that underlie Mormonism. And Mormonism totally dominates politics in a number of western US states. So worrying about CRT while completely ignoring the much bigger and clearly extant nonsense that is Mormonism is, frankly, hypocritical. Also, whenever I see the acronym "CRT", I'm old enough to think first of "cathode ray tube". The dominate politics in one western state, its actually one of the better run states actually. They are also the one group of Reps that have been consistently anti-Trump. Originally Posted by dudalb A lot the people screaming about Crictical Race Theory have no idea what it is, frankly. It's a badly flawed theory of History which I would not like to see taught as fact, but the ones screaming about it want an discussion of racism in American history banned from the classroom. Its not really a theory of history. There is a philosophical theory and a legal theory. I forget who came up with the line but there's nothing wrong with CRT that can't be fixed by dividing by 10. Which is to say, there is truth in it, it just not nearly as explanatory as many of its proponents think.
ahhell Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,291

2nd July 2021, 08:12 AM	#231
ahhell Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,291	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I'm having trouble finding evidence they are fascist. I am amused, from wiki: Quote: Fuentes is Catholic, and of Hispanic and Italian descent. Pretty typical white nationalist. I'm also amused, remember when the conservative were all panicked about O'bama's association with Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers? Edit to add, I'm having trouble figuring out what profanity begins with "T".
ahhell Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,291	Last edited by ahhell; 2nd July 2021 at 08:13 AM.

2nd July 2021, 10:28 AM	#232
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,615	The most recent ex-president is often referred to as a T followed by 4 asterisks. There is a four letter profanity beginning with T, it's the opposite of Pan-Am coffee

2nd July 2021, 10:40 AM	#233
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 24,384	Originally Posted by ahhell I am amused, from wiki: Quote: Fuentes is Catholic, and of Hispanic and Italian descent. Pretty typical white nationalist. Hispanic and Italian, like Franco and Mussolini? What Fuentes does is form a gateway into white nationalism by laundering it through his "America First" brand, which might not seem overtly nazi to the uninformed. link Quote: America First and Religious Entryism AFers characterized themselves as Christian nationalists, meaning that they believe that the US is fundamentally a Christian nation, but elements of their movement reveal even deeper commitments to reactionary ideology. Fuentes has also made statements indicating Holocaust denial and promotes racist ideas (eg, “human biodiversity” and “race realism”) prominent among white nationalists. He also has a particular view of universal Catholic doctrine common among fascists. However, efforts to engage politically with different congregations outside of Catholicism characterize AF’s larger effort to move Trump supporters and the rest of the Republican Party toward white nationalist positions. Fuentes openly debates other movement members from different congregations, like Pentecostalists and Seventh Day Adventists, about the nuances of revealed doctrine. To people who have expressed support for America First, Fuentes advises remaining discreet about their sympathies, while dropping hints about their beliefs and observing how their cohorts respond. In this way, America First works through entryism not just in college groups, and Turning Point USA most specifically, but also in churches and other right-wing organizations.

2nd July 2021, 11:26 AM	#234
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 36,535	Originally Posted by Crossbow This posting is about Don Jr as opposed to Don Sr, but it shows that the apple does not fall too far from the tree. https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/donal...071522699.html Donald Trump Jr. Did It Again With A Ridiculous Take On 'Brittany' Spears’ Conservatorship First, he misspelled Spears first name. Which is not surprising since Trump Sr has misspelled his own name, the name of his third wife, and numerous other words as well. Second, he tried to make some sort of weird equivalence between the trouble that Spears has been having with her father, and Democrat governors. Which is the sort of weird thing that Trump Sr is famous for frequently doing. Third, Trump Jr issued this public tirade in order to appeal to Trump Sr, but instead he just made a public fool of himself. And making a public fool of himself is something that his father is quite good. Surprising as it may seem, I long ago realized that Junior and Eric are simply not as bright as their old man.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

2nd July 2021, 04:08 PM	#235
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Surprising as it may seem, I long ago realized that Junior and Eric are simply not as bright as their old man. Ivana was sniffing glue, drinking moonshine, and binge reading books with Fabio on the cover during her pregnancies. It's the only explanation. She was also injecting bleach when she was pregnant with Eric: https://twitter.com/i/status/1410740695770353668
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 2nd July 2021 at 04:17 PM.