Continuation Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol - part 2

[newyorkguy]

New video has been released that shows retired New York City police officer Thomas Webster confronting and attacking Capital police on January 6th. It's hard to find a link to a standalone version of the video -- released a few days ago by DOJ, it's downloaded body cam footage from one of the Capitol officers present -- but I'm linking to one on Youtube. It is an NBC News segment and heavily censored.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

In an uncensored version, Webster can be heard shouting, "Attack America?" (presumably a reference to 'The Steal'). Then he yells at the Capitol police that they're "******* pieces of ****" and commie *************." He also seems to be demanding the Capitol cops remove their uniforms and join the mob. "Take it off, come on, take it off."

In court Webster's lawyer has described him as a “committed family man with an impeccable character." I guess he means, except for storming the Capitol and attacking the police there. Except for that, I agree, Webster is truly a wonderful man.

[pgwenthold]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

It's unbelievable that a mob of violent angry people trying to get in a room where the people they want to attack are holed up should be viewed like that. We all saw it, multiple times. She was unfortunate enough to be the first person through the door (window in the door). WTF did the mob expect? No one had shot at them yet ergo no one would? The people inside would let them in?

Yeah, but she was white.

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

It's unbelievable that a mob of violent angry people trying to get in a room where the people they want to attack are holed up should be viewed like that. We all saw it, multiple times. She was unfortunate enough to be the first person through the door (window in the door). WTF did the mob expect? No one had shot at them yet ergo no one would? The people inside would let them in?

Of course this is just Carlson upping his ratings by saying outrageous things.

To be fair, the mob was getting very mixed messages from the cops. It probably wasn't a totally unreasonable assumption that this cop would shuffle off once they kicked the door down, so many had readily given up lightly held defenses prior to this barricade.

When Babbitt got shot, there were other cops at the scene that were doing not much of anything to repel the mob. Babbitt got unlucky, she ran into a cop who was actually taking his duty seriously. There were plenty there that day that weren't interested in doing their jobs.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

To be fair, the mob was getting very mixed messages from the cops. It probably wasn't a totally unreasonable assumption that this cop would shuffle off once they kicked the door down, so many had readily given up lightly held defenses prior to this barricade.

When Babbitt got shot, there were other cops at the scene that were doing not much of anything to repel the mob. Babbitt got unlucky, she ran into a cop who was actually taking his duty seriously. There were plenty there that day that weren't interested in doing their jobs.

Those "other cops" you speak of arrived after or about the same time as the shot fired. Just before the other cops arrived the two cops blocking the door left their positions. Maybe Babbitt didn't turn around to see why those two outnumbered cops left.

And frankly just because no one stopped you at the other doors is not a reasonable excuse for one's stupidity to climb through a window (in the door) barricaded with armed men on the other side. Didn't those guys have their guns out already?

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Those "other cops" you speak of arrived after or about the same time as the shot fired. Just before the other cops arrived the two cops blocking the door left their positions. Maybe Babbitt didn't turn around to see why those two outnumbered cops left.

And frankly just because no one stopped you at the other doors is not a reasonable excuse for one's stupidity to climb through a window (in the door) barricaded with armed men on the other side. Didn't those guys have their guns out already?

The snuff film of Babbitt shows a couple cops standing up on the wall next to the door not really doing much. There doesn't seem to be much of a police response until after the shot is fired, and a team of other cops with rifles is seen coming up the stairs to clear the mostly already retreated crowd. Maybe they were waiting for this more heavily armed team, but they didnt arrive until Babbitt had already been escorted to the Forever Box.

I'm not offering this as an excuse, it's just context for why someone like Babbitt might think there would be no meaningful resistance to their violent intrusion. She was smashing a door open within arms distance of two cops who were acting like nervous wallflowers at a middle school dance rather than trying to stop them.

Maybe she didn't notice the guy with the glock on the other side. It's hard to imagine misinterpreting the meaning of a gun pointed in your face, but here we are.

[TurkeysGhost]

Special treat! Sovcit going pro se in her J6 case.

Quote:

Capitol riot suspect Pauline Bauer, who had a quite an outburst last time she appeared in court, is now back.
The judge noted she's representing herself--which she denied.
"I am not pro se," Bauer said, "I am here in a divine special appearance."
She's a sovereign citizen.

https://twitter.com/alanfeuer/status...27589630332937

managed to BS her way into custody during a routine pre-trial hearing.

Quote:

Bauer is now saying she will not speak to pre-trial services period.
"Ms. Bauer you're leaving me no choice," Judge Faruqui says. "The only thing I can do is hold you in contempt."

...

Judge Faruqui is suggesting she get through this hearing and take up any objections with the district judge who will inherit her case. He's trying.
Bauer gives him the silent treatment, no response.
Long pause...
Remanded back to custody.
Twice in one day.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Agreed - the Oath Keepers, as I recall, already have a bunch of spinoffs that are highly questionable, but didn't think a direct attack on Congress was a smart idea (which, I mean...). I'm mostly interested in whether or not the Proud Boys will end up as a2+ street gangs that mostly war with one anothe, like the Bloods and Crips, or if they just kinda fade off with people hiding their ugly shirts and stupid tattoos.

And videos of them performing sex acts on themselves in an attempt to somehow own the libs?

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by jimbob

And videos of them performing sex acts on themselves in an attempt to somehow own the libs?

Is that related to the frankly confusing T-Shirt that states that they lubricate their AR-15 with liberal ejeculate?

[TurkeysGhost]

Don't stop believing baby

Originally Posted by Some gullible CHUD

According to his lawyer, Capitol rioter Doug Jensen was so convinced that the Q-Anon "storm" was coming that when the FBI interviewed him after J6, he asked the agents if "the arrests had taken place yet."

https://twitter.com/alanfeuer/status...64638114648069

FBI going door to door to let everyone know that Hillary got executed at Gitmo.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Is that related to the frankly confusing T-Shirt that states that they lubricate their AR-15 with liberal ejeculate?

No
Mildly
[NSFW]

One of the senior Proud Boys sticking a dildo up himself - which some how showed the libs something

[/nsfw]

[MRC_Hans]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

To be fair, the mob was getting very mixed messages from the cops. It probably wasn't a totally unreasonable assumption that this cop would shuffle off once they kicked the door down, so many had readily given up lightly held defenses prior to this barricade.

When Babbitt got shot, there were other cops at the scene that were doing not much of anything to repel the mob. Babbitt got unlucky, she ran into a cop who was actually taking his duty seriously. There were plenty there that day that weren't interested in doing their jobs.

Yes, they were two, and unarmed. They backed off as armed reinforcements arrived. If Babbitt had done that, too, she would have been alive now.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

The snuff film of Babbitt shows a couple cops standing up on the wall next to the door not really doing much. There doesn't seem to be much of a police response until after the shot is fired, and a team of other cops with rifles is seen coming up the stairs to clear the mostly already retreated crowd. Maybe they were waiting for this more heavily armed team, but they didnt arrive until Babbitt had already been escorted to the Forever Box.

I'm not offering this as an excuse, it's just context for why someone like Babbitt might think there would be no meaningful resistance to their violent intrusion. She was smashing a door open within arms distance of two cops who were acting like nervous wallflowers at a middle school dance rather than trying to stop them.

Maybe she didn't notice the guy with the glock on the other side. It's hard to imagine misinterpreting the meaning of a gun pointed in your face, but here we are.

Get real. This was the USA. She was in a violent riot. The only reason she might have to not expect getting shot was being white, but, hey, who will notice in the heat of the moment?

Hans

[newyorkguy]

More on Thomas Webster, the retired New York City cop who is in jail charged with assaulting a Capitol cop. Webster says, the other cops started it. Seriously.

[quadraginta]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Did they say anything about the criteria that allowed them to be hired? What aren't the managers doing that they should be doing?

Their jobs?

Of course, that just helps them fit in better.

Protective coloration if nothing else.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

More on Thomas Webster, the retired New York City cop who is in jail charged with assaulting a Capitol cop. Webster says, the other cops started it. Seriously.

Oh, well if he only attacked a cop because he was angry, I guess that's ok.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

The snuff film of Babbitt shows a couple cops standing up on the wall next to the door not really doing much. There doesn't seem to be much of a police response until after the shot is fired, and a team of other cops with rifles is seen coming up the stairs to clear the mostly already retreated crowd. Maybe they were waiting for this more heavily armed team, but they didnt arrive until Babbitt had already been escorted to the Forever Box.

I'm not offering this as an excuse, it's just context for why someone like Babbitt might think there would be no meaningful resistance to their violent intrusion. She was smashing a door open within arms distance of two cops who were acting like nervous wallflowers at a middle school dance rather than trying to stop them.

Maybe she didn't notice the guy with the glock on the other side. It's hard to imagine misinterpreting the meaning of a gun pointed in your face, but here we are.

They had just arrived. The ones you see were the first up the stairs where the others were in single file right behind them. Upon their arrival the two cops at the door got out of the way.

It is too bad in that in about one minute more the cops might have been able to get the mob away from the door and Babbitt would have not climbed through the window.

[newyorkguy]

Quote:

In an uncensored version, Webster can be heard shouting, "Attack America?" (presumably a reference to 'The Steal').

One clarification. Apparently what Webster was saying was, "Attacking Americans?" Meaning the Capitol cops were interfering with Americans' Constitutional and God-given right to overthrow their government.

[smartcooky]

Here is Frank Figliuzzi on Tucker Carldon's bat-**** crazy story alleging that "unindicted co-conspirators" means FBI agents

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/why-tu...-riot-n1271533

Interstingly, he also give a reason why he thinks this has started, and why it has been picked up so quickly by certain members of Congress.

"So why would far-right media and members of Congress push such a clearly off-the-wall conspiracy? Well, let’s look at another news story that emerged last week. On Friday, MSNBC reported that it was able to obtain, through the Freedom of Information Act, the report of an FBI interview of a suspected participant in the Jan. 6 violence. Notably, as reported by NBC Washington News4 investigative reporter Scott MacFarlane, the subject — Thomas Webster, a retired NYPD officer and former Marine — was asked whether he had any connection to any member of Congress or congressional staffer.” That simple question provides us the answer as to why the far-right has strategically shifted its Jan. 6 blame game.

As I noted last Friday night on "The 11th Hour" with Brian Williams, members of Congress may have become aware that the FBI is pursuing the root cause of the Jan. 6 riot — and that root may reach to Capitol Hill or those in Trump’s orbit. To the extent that certain members of Congress or aides to Trump may be criminally exposed for any possible role they played in aiding and abetting violence, they would have every reason to begin attacking the investigators: “Of course the FBI will blame us — the agency is simply trying to deflect attention away from its own role in the riot.” It’s a tactic right out of the Trump playbook."

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Here is Frank Figliuzzi on Tucker Carldon's bat-**** crazy story alleging that "unindicted co-conspirators" means FBI agents

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/why-tu...-riot-n1271533

Interstingly, he also give a reason why he thinks this has started, and why it has been picked up so quickly by certain members of Congress.

"So why would far-right media and members of Congress push such a clearly off-the-wall conspiracy? Well, let’s look at another news story that emerged last week. On Friday, MSNBC reported that it was able to obtain, through the Freedom of Information Act, the report of an FBI interview of a suspected participant in the Jan. 6 violence. Notably, as reported by NBC Washington News4 investigative reporter Scott MacFarlane, the subject — Thomas Webster, a retired NYPD officer and former Marine — was asked whether he had any connection to any member of Congress or congressional staffer.” That simple question provides us the answer as to why the far-right has strategically shifted its Jan. 6 blame game.

As I noted last Friday night on "The 11th Hour" with Brian Williams, members of Congress may have become aware that the FBI is pursuing the root cause of the Jan. 6 riot — and that root may reach to Capitol Hill or those in Trump’s orbit. To the extent that certain members of Congress or aides to Trump may be criminally exposed for any possible role they played in aiding and abetting violence, they would have every reason to begin attacking the investigators: “Of course the FBI will blame us — the agency is simply trying to deflect attention away from its own role in the riot.” It’s a tactic right out of the Trump playbook."

Every once in a while something runs on White Power Hour that really reminds me how much contempt Carlson has for his audience.

He's not a stupid man. He knows this is total BS, but also knows that the hogs that watch his show will gulp this down without question. He really is the master of playing the dumb guy's idea of a smart guy.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Every once in a while something runs on White Power Hour that really reminds me how much contempt Carlson has for his audience.

He's not a stupid man. He knows this is total BS, but also knows that the hogs that watch his show will gulp this down without question. He really is the master of playing the dumb guy's idea of a smart guy.

Someone on another forum linked to one of the various YouTube videos about Louie Gohmert repeating the FBI conspiracy theory, with a warning about the comments that had been posted. I briefly skimmed them, and nearly all of them were things like "The videos showed some of the police letting people in past barriers. That proves that the authorities were organizing it."

[portlandatheist]

Another rioter pleads guilty
CNNhttps://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/polit...nor/index.html

Quote:

A Tennessee man pleaded guilty Tuesday to illegally demonstrating inside the US Capitol on January 6, becoming the fifth rioter to admit their guilt in the massive federal probe.

Slapped with a $500 fine and probably won't see the inside of a jail cell.

[gnome]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

Someone on another forum linked to one of the various YouTube videos about Louie Gohmert repeating the FBI conspiracy theory, with a warning about the comments that had been posted. I briefly skimmed them, and nearly all of them were things like "The videos showed some of the police letting people in past barriers. That proves that the authorities were organizing it."

But don't question those police or investigate which insiders were complicit!

[smartcooky]

Up to 525 now, but no clear indication of who the latest four are.

https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-c...s-names-2021-1

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Another rioter pleads guilty
CNNhttps://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/polit...nor/index.html


Slapped with a $500 fine and probably won't see the inside of a jail cell.

Well, that'll set an example!

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Another rioter pleads guilty
CNNhttps://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/polit...nor/index.html

Slapped with a $500 fine and probably won't see the inside of a jail cell.

Not really a fine as such.... more like reparations

"He has agreed to pay $500 to help repair damages to the Capitol"Federal prosecutors recently recommended probation in a similar case involving a nonviolent rioter from Indiana.""

Yes, I know the article called it a fine, but this doesn't meet the legal definition of a fine. Fines are imposed, not agreed to by the defendant.

It also does not preclude him from jail time or an actual fine, but these are unlikely, and if he is given jail, it won't be a long stint - more likely he willl get probation

"Federal prosecutors recently recommended probation in a similar case involving a non-violent rioter from Indiana."

Originally Posted by Belz...

Well, that'll set an example!

Not really. Lets look at what he was actually charged with

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...ar5IQKi5ay5kKc

So he isn't accused of

• conspiring with other rioters
• attacking police
• violent entry
• destroying property or criminal damage

It looks like he was non-violent and simply followed others into the Capitol, but did nothing illegal or untoward while he was there... one of Trump's sheeple following other Trump sheeple. He plead guilty to one misdemeanour charge.
.
.
.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Right, and it's still perfectly legal to be a member of the KKK, for example, and send them money. Meanwhile sending material support to ISIS is something you can be imprisoned for. Individuals in the US cannot be charged simply for being members of domestic terrorism groups, they must be charged for normal crimes they commit as part of that group.

Classifying these groups as domestic terrorists is a useful organizational tool, but doesn't really carry much weight legally speaking.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism

There has not been a single "KLan" in the US since the 1930's. You have dozens of individual Klan organization, all claiming to be the "original and true" KKK. They often hate one another as much as they do the inferior races.
Don't get me wrong, the Klans are potentially dangerous but there is no big,central Klan organization like there was in the 1920s. In the 1930's it basically splintered and fell apart during the depression.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Yes, they were two, and unarmed. They backed off as armed reinforcements arrived. If Babbitt had done that, too, she would have been alive now.

Hans

What is amusing about that tape is how quickly the mob dispersed when the DC Cops armed with shotguns entered that hallway........

[newyorkguy]

This is ironic. Below is a message posted on Twitter on January 9th. Lousy Antifa stooge!

Is this still the 'operative' explanation? Guess not...

.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

This is ironic. Below is a message posted on Twitter on January 9th. Lousy Antifa stooge!

Is this still the 'operative' explanation? Guess not...

.

It's every explanation at the same time. It doesn't matter. At this point it's not about what they believe.

[newyorkguy]

I watched selfie videos Babbitt took of herself. In one she was warning -- referring to 'The Steal' -- that the "storm is coming." After attending the January 6th rally led by the messiah, Babbitt took a selfie vid en route to the Capitol. She was practically giddy as she enthused, "Look at this crowd!...The storm is here!"

After she was shot, the first person to reach her asked how bad she was hurt. He said Babbitt's last words were: "No, it's cool."

Five years ago I wrote in a message here, after trump said/did something outrageous, "That's nothing, give him a chance. Eventually he'll do something so crazy they'll be talking about it for the next hundred years."

[Segnosaur]

Re: Terrorist who plead guilty...

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Not really a fine as such.... more like reparations
...
It also does not preclude him from jail time or an actual fine, but these are unlikely, and if he is given jail, it won't be a long stint - more likely he willl get probation
...
Not really. Lets look at what he was actually charged with
...
It looks like he was non-violent and simply followed others into the Capitol, but did nothing illegal or untoward while he was there... one of Trump's sheeple following other Trump sheeple. He plead guilty to one misdemeanour charge.

Even if he didn't personally engage in any violence....
- He had the option of not entering the Capitol
- I saw no evidence that he tried to stop others from engaging in violence
- His presence provided moral and practical support for those who did engage in violence. (In fact, there are pictures of him directing others into the building.)
- He made no attempt to turn himself in prior to his arrest

Unless he has made some genuine effort to express true remorse (which I don't see any evidence for), I think he deserves jail time.

See: The Tennessean

[TurkeysGhost]

Winner winner chicken dinner

Oathkeeper is cooperating with the feds and informing on his pals for leniency in sentencing.

Quote:

Oath Keeper Reaches Plea Deal, Will Cooperate In Major Jan. 6 Conspiracy Case
Graydon Young is part of a group of Oath Keepers facing charges related to the Capitol riot. He’s the first to reach a plea deal with the feds.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/oath-...ad2be279b4?iei

When it comes to snitching, Ricky Bobby rules apply. If you aint first, you're last.

ETA: Unclear if "don't rat on your comrades" is part of the oath they keep.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Another rioter pleads guilty
CNNhttps://www.cnn.com/2021/06/22/polit...nor/index.html


Slapped with a $500 fine and probably won't see the inside of a jail cell.

I think that is what going to happen with most of the accused. Only the more serious offenders are going to see the inside of a jail.

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by dudalb

I think that is what going to happen with most of the accused. Only the more serious offenders are going to see the inside of a jail.

Likely, for those that didn't destroy anything or attempt to harm anyone.

...and honestly, that's fine with me. I don't see any need to jail people that just wandered over because "Trump told me so", and just stood their with their mouths open.

Meanwhile, here's a group that protested actual voter suppression, led by revs William Barber 2 and Al Sharpton, the group tried to meet with Jim Crow McConnell and Joe Manchin, and after held a standard, nonviolent rally. It sounds like many of the leaders were technically arrested, but this just meant that they were held until everyone was issued tickets and then let go.

Personally, I'm very concerned by this contrast in behavior, and I blame the white fathers for not raising their sons properly.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

ETA: Unclear if "don't rat on your comrades" is part of the oath they keep.

As if any of them would compromise their rugged individuality for the good of the collective.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

ETA: Unclear if "don't rat on your comrades" is part of the oath they keep.

I'd be happy if 3% of them ratted on their comrades.

[8enotto]

Just getting a felony for even the mildest of the listed offences means no future voting.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by 8enotto

Just getting a felony for even the mildest of the listed offences means no future voting.

Depends on the state.

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by dudalb

I think that is what going to happen with most of the accused. Only the more serious offenders are going to see the inside of a jail.

Based on the criteria that was laid out by the prosecutors to determine their stance on sentencing recommendations, this lady is the most mild of all the potential invaders.

She cooperated with the feds, seems apologetic, was not part of any organized group, and committed no violence or vandalism.

A factor that I think will be important for others similar to her is that she only briefly entered the Capitol and did not go deeper into the building

Prosecutors seem to be making that an important distinction. Lookie-loos that wandered around the entrance lobby might skirt with probation like this lady if they play their cards right. Those that wandered further into the building into more sensitive areas are probably going to have some degree of incarceration recommended.

[The Great Zaganza]

Prosecutors want as many rioters to plead as possible; the reason being that it might very well be a sound strategy for the worst offenders to delay and delay until there is another Republican Majority in Congress and the White House. And the more cases actually go to Court, the more likely it is that the more serious cases will get postponed for years.