Continuation Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol - part 2

[portlandatheist]

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Soo...a bunch of local chapters, like when other serious street gangs collapse? Or will the muppets realize the problem and stay home?

They'll eventually collapse one way or the other. They are declared a terrorist organization by Canada and perhaps will here too (and even if they don't, the FBI has watching them closely) They are easily infiltrated and surveilled. There is rampant infighting and turncoats. I'm no fan of antifa but at least they have operational security and other skills these clowns will never have.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

They'll eventually collapse one way or the other. They are declared a terrorist organization by Canada and perhaps will here too (and even if they don't, the FBI has watching them closely) They are easily infiltrated and surveilled. There is rampant infighting and turncoats. I'm no fan of antifa but at least they have operational security and other skills these clowns will never have.

They were also collectively smart enough to stay the **** away from the Capitol on 1/6.. and while some of the Qnut/treasonous mooks in Congress have tried desperately to push the narrative that Antifa was behind the riots, ALL of the evidence, without exception, has shown that it was Trump supporters and white nationalist/supremacist groups like the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys and the 3%ers who were behind all of it.

The FBI has charged over 500 people... every single one of them a Trump supporter.

[portlandatheist]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

They were also collectively smart enough to stay the **** away from the Capitol on 1/6.. and while some of the Qnut/treasonous mooks in Congress have tried desperately to push the narrative that Antifa was behind the riots, ALL of the evidence, without exception, has shown that it was Trump supporters and white nationalist/supremacist groups like the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys and the 3%ers who were behind all of it.

The FBI has charged over 500 people... every single one of them a Trump supporter.

Did you read my post on the demographics of the rioters? A study was conducted. There were some interesting takeaways, like that most of them came from rconservatives living in Blue States and Blue cities and very few of them were from Red States and few of them were Oath Keepers and Proud Boys. I mean, they were there too of course but the majority of them were not. And obviously, there was no antifa faction. You might be confusing me with somebody else, I've never insinuated in any way an antifa faction present at the J6 riot.

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Scott Perry (Pa.)
- objected to the Electoral College count on 1/6
- signed Amicus brief in Texas lawsuit to overturn the election in four states

Just to single this one out as an example - Scott Perry's got a bunch more on his record, especially since the time when he participated in the illegal storming of a closed door session related to the first impeachment and worked to break whistleblower law on top of that. Of more direct note, he was also an active participant in working to help connect Trump with people to try to overturn the election results via the legal system. In that case, this actions were likely not illegal, though, but they were thoroughly unethical.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Did you read my post on the demographics of the rioters? A study was conducted. There were some interesting takeaways, like that most of them came from rconservatives living in Blue States and Blue cities and very few of them were from Red States and few of them were Oath Keepers and Proud Boys. I mean, they were there too of course but the majority of them were not. And obviously, there was no antifa faction. You might be confusing me with somebody else, I've never insinuated in any way an antifa faction present at the J6 riot.

Thanks, but I think you misunderstood. I was just adding to the part of your post that I highlighted.

[TurkeysGhost]

WSJ article detailing the fallout of the J6 indictments on the Oathkeeper and Proud Boy operations. Lots of emphasis on what a grift these things are.

Rhodes, the leader of the Oathkeeper, especially seems to have a habit of pilfering from the supposed non-profit. In addition to whatever role he played in the J6 attack, he seems awfully ripe for prosecution related to the blatant stealing from the organization.

Quote:

He spent Oath Keepers money on a deposit on a house in Montana, on haircuts and liquor, on storable food reserves and on personal riot gear, according to some current and former members and some of Mr. Rhodes’s family members. They also said he had a habit of buying expensive military equipment and leaving it in caches in people’s homes around the country for future “operations.”

Bank records reviewed by the Journal show thousands of dollars of Oath Keepers funds spent on goods and services near the town in Montana where Mr. Rhodes lived until recently, including at an auto-repair shop ($12,424), pet store ($83.50), dentist ($504), bar ($886), gun store ($9,974) and a lingerie and adult-goods shop called Alley Katz Nighties N Naughties ($229). The group also spent money on phone games ($275) and at an online perfume shop Fragrancenet.com ($256).

“He used that thing as a piggy bank,” said Ed Wilson, an Army veteran who managed information technology for the Oath Keepers in 2015 and said he alerted the board about spending. Mr. Wilson said he quit when he saw nothing was changing.

Deplatforming seems to be hurting Tarrio and the Proud Boys financially. They're having trouble filling orders for their fashy merchandise because reputable credit card vendors want nothing to do with them.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/proud-b...il-11623859785

Frankly, I'm absolutely shocked that these fascist groups are full of self-promoting grifters.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Frankly, I'm absolutely shocked that these fascist groups are full of self-promoting grifters.

Why do you think they adopted another self-promoting grifter as their Dear Leader?

[TurkeysGhost]

Some legal analysis on what sentencing we might expect for some of the lesser J6 defendants that plead out.

Quote:

Today, Anna Morgan-Lloyd, a 49-year old grandmother from Indiana was supposed to be sentenced to probation on her misdemeanor trespass charges relating to January 6. That has been postponed on account of the Juneteenth holiday. But I suspect the courts and the government hope that other sentencing hearings — including that of Jessica and Joshua Bustle, who pled guilty on Monday — will take place after Morgan-Lloyd, so as to make hers the model of how to earn a (three-year) probation sentence for participating in the riot.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/06/1...ce-collection/

The prosecutors list several factors in their decision making on how to sentence these people. The first 4 are what you would expect, they focus on collaboration with others/extremist groups, vandalism, violence towards police, and theft of government property.

The fifth is more interesting:

Quote:

Fifth, based on the Government’s investigation, it appears that the Defendant remained in a limited part of the Capitol building for a limited period of time – i.e., in one hallway for a little over ten minutes. The Government is not aware of any evidence that the Defendant entered any rooms or offices in the Capitol, the Capitol Rotunda, or the Senate or House Chamber.

Seems those that just did a quick looksie might be getting lighter treatment than those that went further into more sensitive areas. An interesting way to sort out the bulk of "tourists" into lesser and greater offenders.

Looks like some of the lesser CHUDs might come out of this with lengthy probation sentences if they play their cards right.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Did you read my post on the demographics of the rioters? A study was conducted. There were some interesting takeaways, like that most of them came from rconservatives living in Blue States and Blue cities and very few of them were from Red States and few of them were Oath Keepers and Proud Boys. I mean, they were there too of course but the majority of them were not. And obviously, there was no antifa faction. You might be confusing me with somebody else, I've never insinuated in any way an antifa faction present at the J6 riot.

Seems like a group of privileged people attacking their own country out of fear that they were losing their privileged status.

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by Craig4

Seems like a group of privileged people attacking their own country out of fear that they were losing their privileged status.

Much has been written about the vital role middle class types play in fascist uprisings. They are simultaneously resentful of the wealthier classes that exclude them while terrified of agitation among poor and marginalized classes that might undermine their wealth and comfort. There's a long history of middle class types preferring reactionary politics and clinging to strongmen during periods of crisis.

Nobody should be surprised that this attack on the Capitol was made up of cops, small business tyrants, and comfortable, aging middle class types.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/22/o...-populism.html

[Craig4]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/18/polit...nvs/index.html

This was at the top of the CNN splash page this morning. I was glad to see her body isn't defiling a veteran's cemetery. Her kind shouldn't be buried with Americans. I was also glad to see that the Capitol Police attorney said that the officers actions in shooting her stopped the enemy from entering the Speaker's Lobby while it was being evacuated and was nothing short of "heroic". I couldn't agree more.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Craig4

Seems like a group of privileged people attacking their own country out of fear that they were losing their privileged status.

That's a recurring theme.

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by Craig4

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/18/polit...nvs/index.html

This was at the top of the CNN splash page this morning. I was glad to see her body isn't defiling a veteran's cemetery. Her kind shouldn't be buried with Americans. I was also glad to see that the Capitol Police attorney said that the officers actions in shooting her stopped the enemy from entering the Speaker's Lobby while it was being evacuated and was nothing short of "heroic". I couldn't agree more.

Surely there must have been a nearby dumpster.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Surely there must have been a nearby dumpster.

Her family is upset that all people talk about is what she was doing when she died. She betrayed the country she swore to defend and attempted to steal a presidential election. Every else about her is like asking Mrs. Lincoln how the play was.

[TurkeysGhost]

The CNN article brings up that other cops on the scene didn't shoot.

I wonder if there's animosity among the Capitol Police. Some were fighting tooth and nail to stop the invaders, while others were doing very little at all , or even chumming around with them in some cases.

IIRC from the video, there's a couple of cops just kinda standing around not doing much in the chaos that eventually leads to Babbitt taking the dirt nap. Had any of these cops even tried to control the crowd with less-lethal weapons, Babbitt might be a bit bruised or peppersprayed rather than shot dead.

If I were a cop that was getting the snot kicked out of me or had to shoot someone, I think I'd be pretty pissed off by the laissez-faire attitude on display. I haven't really seen much public anger around this, but I suppose the blue line trumps all.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Some legal analysis on what sentencing we might expect for some of the lesser J6 defendants that plead out.

Today, Anna Morgan-Lloyd, a 49-year old grandmother from Indiana was supposed to be sentenced to probation on her misdemeanor trespass charges relating to January 6.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/06/1...ce-collection/

The prosecutors list several factors in their decision making on how to sentence these people. The first 4 are what you would expect, they focus on collaboration with others/extremist groups, vandalism, violence towards police, and theft of government property.

The fifth is more interesting:

Seems those that just did a quick looksie might be getting lighter treatment than those that went further into more sensitive areas.

The article also mentions ways that she actually showed some remorse for her actions... she cooperated fully right from the start (giving access to her phone). And she has since attempted to challenge a relative's holocaust denial, reviewed several movies with racism as a theme, etc. (Granted, some of that could just be a smokescreen. But it does go further than what many of the other Jan6 terrorists have done in their defense.)

Overall, I probably think she should have spent some time in jail.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

The CNN article brings up that other cops on the scene didn't shoot.

I wonder if there's animosity among the Capitol Police. Some were fighting tooth and nail to stop the invaders, while others were doing very little at all , or even chumming around with them in some cases.

IIRC from the video, there's a couple of cops just kinda standing around not doing much in the chaos that eventually leads to Babbitt taking the dirt nap. Had any of these cops even tried to control the crowd with less-lethal weapons, Babbitt might be a bit bruised or peppersprayed rather than shot dead.

If I were a cop that was getting the snot kicked out of me or had to shoot someone, I think I'd be pretty pissed off by the laissez-faire attitude on display. I haven't really seen much public anger around this, but I suppose the blue line trumps all.

I don't understand why there weren't more shots fired. Attack and cop with a baton or flagpole and you should expect to get shot. In the new video that came out yesterday showing a guy with a metal rod attacking police, it looked like a scenario I remember on the simulator where you were supposed to shoot the person.

[RecoveringYuppy]

Originally Posted by Craig4

I don't understand why there weren't more shots fired. Attack and cop with a baton or flagpole and you should expect to get shot. In the new video that came out yesterday showing a guy with a metal rod attacking police, it looked like a scenario I remember on the simulator where you were supposed to shoot the person.

Was there someone in position to shoot?

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Craig4

I don't understand why there weren't more shots fired.

The attackers were white so the police acted with discretion.

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by The Don

The attackers were white so the police acted with discretion.

Antifa can't knock over a trashcan without getting a volley of rubber bullets and tear gas grenades shot at their heads but these CHUDs can beat a few cops half to death and still get the kid glove treatment.

[GodMark2]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Antifa can't knock over a trashcan without getting a volley of rubber bullets and tear gas grenades shot at their heads but these CHUDs can beat a few cops half to death and still get the kid glove treatment.

...and then complain that the gloves were only soft cotton, and not plush velvet.

[Mumbles]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

They'll eventually collapse one way or the other. They are declared a terrorist organization by Canada and perhaps will here too (and even if they don't, the FBI has watching them closely) They are easily infiltrated and surveilled. There is rampant infighting and turncoats. I'm no fan of antifa but at least they have operational security and other skills these clowns will never have.

Agreed - the Oath Keepers, as I recall, already have a bunch of spinoffs that are highly questionable, but didn't think a direct attack on Congress was a smart idea (which, I mean...). I'm mostly interested in whether or not the Proud Boys will end up as a2+ street gangs that mostly war with one anothe, like the Bloods and Crips, or if they just kinda fade off with people hiding their ugly shirts and stupid tattoos.

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

They'll eventually collapse one way or the other. They are declared a terrorist organization by Canada and perhaps will here too (and even if they don't, the FBI has watching them closely) They are easily infiltrated and surveilled. There is rampant infighting and turncoats. I'm no fan of antifa but at least they have operational security and other skills these clowns will never have.

The US can't legally declare domestic groups terrorist orgs the way they can with foreign groups.

The feds might dedicate more resources to subverting and policing these groups, but there's no option to outright criminalize membership and/or support of domestic extremism groups.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Craig4

I don't understand why there weren't more shots fired. Attack and cop with a baton or flagpole and you should expect to get shot. In the new video that came out yesterday showing a guy with a metal rod attacking police, it looked like a scenario I remember on the simulator where you were supposed to shoot the person.

They don't shoot white people.

Actually they were trying not to escalate the scene into a blood bath. I think had they had a better position from which to shoot they should have considered it. But shooting at a mob that is on top of you may be quite risky.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

The US can't legally declare domestic groups terrorist orgs the way they can with foreign groups.

The feds might dedicate more resources to subverting and policing these groups, but there's no option to outright criminalize membership and/or support of domestic extremism groups.

What?

Terrorist organizations in the US.

Quote:

Ku Klux Klan
The Ku Klux Klan (KKK) was determined to be a "terrorist organization" in 1870 by a federal grand jury,[39] and the FBI has been investigating crimes by white supremacy extremists including Klan members since the early 1900s.[40] During reconstruction at the end of the Civil War the original KKK used domestic terrorism against the federal government and against freed slaves. During the 20th century, leading up to the Civil Rights Movement, unrelated KKK groups used threats, violence, arson, and murder to further their anti-Black, anti-Catholic, anti-Communist, anti-immigrant, anti-Semitic, homophobic and white-supremacist agenda. Other groups with agendas similar to the Ku Klux Klan include neo-Nazis, white power skinheads, and other far-right movements.

I doubt there are many groups domestic or foreign that one is arrested solely for being a member.

[TurkeysGhost]

"Eye Gouger", the guy seen viciously attacking the cops with a pipe and clawing at their faces with his bare hands, revealed to be retired NYPD.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investiga...c_wnbc_twt_shr

How fitting that one of the most iconically vicious attackers widely seen on the news of the event is a former cop.

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

What?

Terrorist organizations in the US.I doubt there are many groups domestic or foreign that one is arrested solely for being a member.

Right, and it's still perfectly legal to be a member of the KKK, for example, and send them money. Meanwhile sending material support to ISIS is something you can be imprisoned for. Individuals in the US cannot be charged simply for being members of domestic terrorism groups, they must be charged for normal crimes they commit as part of that group.

Classifying these groups as domestic terrorists is a useful organizational tool, but doesn't really carry much weight legally speaking.

Quote:

While international terrorism ("acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries") is a defined crime in federal law,[5] no federal criminal offense exists which is referred to as "domestic terrorism".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Right, and it's still perfectly legal to be a member of the KKK, for example, and send them money. Meanwhile sending material support to ISIS is something you can be imprisoned for. Individuals in the US cannot be charged simply for being members of domestic terrorism groups, they must be charged for normal crimes they commit as part of that group.

Classifying these groups as domestic terrorists is a useful organizational tool, but doesn't really carry much weight legally speaking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism

Wouldn't sending money to an organization that is at war with US troops in the Middle East be different from just being declared a terrorist group?

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Wouldn't sending money to an organization that is at war with US troops in the Middle East be different from just being declared a terrorist group?

It is a federal crime to support international terror. It is not a federal crime to support or join a domestic terror group, that's all I'm saying.

The feds declaring the Proud Boys a Domestic Terror group would not result in them folding up overnight like it did in Canada. It might make membership more stigmatized and harder for members to justify, but it would remain legal to be a Proud Boy. If Proud Boys ceases to exist, it'll be because all the members either quit, die, or get arrested for specific crimes. Odds are good most will end up in other groups or reorganize as new groups. It's common that the same people end up in a whack-a-mole situation as they jump from failed group to failed group.

I wonder if a case could be made that these groups are international terror groups. Gavin McInnis is a Canadian national living here on a greencard when he started the group, and there have been non-US chapters. Not sure what's involved in making that determination.

[TurkeysGhost]

Feds digging deep into the bag of tricks to nail a CHUD who carried a pistol with him:

Quote:

A grand jury has invoked a rarely used federal statute to indict a Capitol defendant who repeatedly admitted transporting a weapon across state lines ahead of the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

The D.C. federal grand jury, in a superseding indictment returned Wednesday and unsealed Thursday, charged Guy Reffitt of Texas with transporting “a rifle and a semi-automatic handgun, knowing and having reason to know and intending that the firearm will be used unlawfully in furtherance of a civil disorder.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/guy-r...e834230ff7?ew9

Mock seems to be somewhat unusual because he has a prior record of violent crimes. Couldn't be happening to a nicer guy

Quote:

Brian Mock, who allegedly bragged he “beat the **** out of officers,” also threatened the woman who went with him to the Capitol and said he’d “make her life hell” if she identified him, feds said in a filing today.

..

Feds also say Brian Mock previously held a gun to kids’ heads and aggressively shouted at them and shove a bystander who tried to help.

https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/stat...50268873846793

[MRC_Hans]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

"Eye Gouger", the guy seen viciously attacking the cops with a pipe and clawing at their faces with his bare hands, revealed to be retired NYPD.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investiga...c_wnbc_twt_shr

How fitting that one of the most iconically vicious attackers widely seen on the news of the event is a former cop.

Well, we have seen that there are cops who are violent, racist, etc. So no big surprise there. Basically, I suppose cops are, and should be, representative of the population. They should, however, abide by the laws.

Hans

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

It is a federal crime to support international terror. It is not a federal crime to support or join a domestic terror group, that's all I'm saying.

The feds declaring the Proud Boys a Domestic Terror group would not result in them folding up overnight like it did in Canada. It might make membership more stigmatized and harder for members to justify, but it would remain legal to be a Proud Boy. If Proud Boys ceases to exist, it'll be because all the members either quit, die, or get arrested for specific crimes. Odds are good most will end up in other groups or reorganize as new groups. It's common that the same people end up in a whack-a-mole situation as they jump from failed group to failed group.

I wonder if a case could be made that these groups are international terror groups. Gavin McInnis is a Canadian national living here on a greencard when he started the group, and there have been non-US chapters. Not sure what's involved in making that determination.

Or we could just, you know, do it, and work out the constitutionality later

-Henry Kissinger

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

"Eye Gouger", the guy seen viciously attacking the cops with a pipe and clawing at their faces with his bare hands, revealed to be retired NYPD.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investiga...c_wnbc_twt_shr

How fitting that one of the most iconically vicious attackers widely seen on the news of the event is a former cop.

CNN talking heads this morning were shocked -- shocked, I tell you! -- that current and former police and military were involved in the insurrection. Where were they last summer when cops repeatedly employed violence against peaceful protesters?

[Craig4]

With the weapons charge, he should get enough time that he dies in prison. It's good when his kind suffer.

[smartcooky]

Reply to post in the MTG Thread

Originally Posted by Craig4

I understand that members and Capitol Police observed the Gosar boy giving tours to people on the the 5th. Those same people were part of the enemy force that attacked the capitol the following day.

Well if that is the case, then there is a good chance that at least some of them are among the 521 people so far arrested, and if so, then they are holding a very valuable chip in the game.

We actually know for sure that the prosecutors have asked at least one of the charged insurrectionists, Thomas Webster (a former NYC cop) about the involvement of Congress members and/or staff. We know because NBC reporter Scott MacFarlane has got a hold of the court transcript.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McJ5tY87KoY
(5 minutes)

If they've asked one, they almost certainly have asked a lot more.... and that might bring the "PERSON ONE, PERSON TWO" thing in the Oath Keeper's charging documents into sharper focus.

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

"Eye Gouger", the guy seen viciously attacking the cops with a pipe and clawing at their faces with his bare hands, revealed to be retired NYPD...

Not really out of character for some cops when they blow their stack. And Webster was clearly in a rage. [see screencaps below]

Quote:

An NYPD veteran [Thomas Webster] charged with beating a police officer during the Capitol riot is shocked that he’s locked up with “inner-city” criminals, according to his lawyer...“For a middle aged guy whose never been arrested before, this has been a shock for him,” the attorney reportedly explained...Webster has been jailed since February on charges that include assault of a police officer. Federal prosecutors said he attacked a cop with a metal flagpole during the insurrection and can be seen in a photo submitted with his indictment apparently digging his thumbs into the officer’s face...his lawyer argued that he was a “committed family man” with an impeccable character. He was simply answering a call from then-President Donald Trump, his attorney insisted, according to Law & Crime. HuffPost news link

A relative and a close friend are/were NYPD officers. They both always warned me -- and they don't know one another -- to be careful in any interaction with police. They both say the same thing, roughly half the officers they worked with should never have been appointed. I guess Webster, seen in red jacket below, is in that group.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

.....
A relative and a close friend are/were NYPD officers. They both always warned me -- and they don't know one another -- to be careful in any interaction with police. They both say the same thing, roughly half the officers they worked with should never have been appointed. I guess Webster, seen in red jacket below, is in that group.

Did they say anything about the criteria that allowed them to be hired? What aren't the managers doing that they should be doing?

[smartcooky]

Just to add to my earlier post #355

Was watching interviews with former FBI Special Agent, and Assistant Director for Counter-intelligence Frank Figliuzzi, and former Assistant U.S. Attorney for DC, Glenn Kirschner.

They both pointed out that the FBI generally don't ask these kinds of questions unless they already know the answers to them, and since they already have 520 other people arrested, have seized their devices and have access to all their communications, such as texts, Facebook, WhatsApp, Parler and other app messages, as well as emails and phone calls etc, the FBI are very likely proceeding from a position of already knowing that members of Congress were complicit in the insurrection, and probably already know who most of them were.

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Did they say anything about the criteria that allowed them to be hired? What aren't the managers doing that they should be doing?

I think they would say, "Above my pay grade."

I think they feel there should be better pre-screening of candidates. That training should be developed to better prepare candidates for the stress and challenges they will encounter, especially on patrol.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Did they say anything about the criteria that allowed them to be hired? What aren't the managers doing that they should be doing?

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

I think they would say, "Above my pay grade."

I think they feel there should be better pre-screening of candidates. That training should be developed to better prepare candidates for the stress and challenges they will encounter, especially on patrol.

The problem, is, I think, that when the hierarchy consists of racist thugs, those are the candidates they'll select.