Dear Users… (A thread for Sysadmin, Technical Support, and Help Desk people) Part 10 - Page 61

arthwollipot · 21st May 2023, 08:34 PM

I'm looking at an incident in our queue from someone who received a notification on their government mobile phone saying that an unauthorised TikTok analytic was detected. As you know a couple of weeks ago the Australian Government banned TikTok on all government-owned devices.

My response:

Yeah, this happens. It's normal. It's how stuff works. Welcome to the 21st Century.

What's happened here is that you have visited a website that has a TikTok analytic tracker on it, which is common and normal and millions of websites all over the internet have them. Trackers are used by TikTok to determine how often the site is accessed by TikTok users. All social media does this - TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, ******* NextDoor probably. It's normal. It's what social media does.

You get a notification of the TikTok one because the government is paranoid about China and chosen that one specifically to block, despite the fact that all the others have been happily installed in the background on the phone and are quietly and constantly reporting back to their respective owners. Nobody worries about them because they're not OMG China!

Receiving this notification does not mean that TikTok has access to your phone. In fact, the fact that you've got a notification saying that the analytic tracker was unauthorised means that the system is working and preventing that access. Please educate yourself about how the internet works and do not waste everyone's time with stupid issues that are completely normal like this.

No, I did not actually say that.

quadraginta · 21st May 2023, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I'm looking at an incident in our queue from someone who received a notification on their government mobile phone saying that an unauthorised TikTok analytic was detected. As you know a couple of weeks ago the Australian Government banned TikTok on all government-owned devices.

My response:

Yeah, this happens. It's normal. It's how stuff works. Welcome to the 21st Century.

What's happened here is that you have visited a website that has a TikTok analytic tracker on it, which is common and normal and millions of websites all over the internet have them. Trackers are used by TikTok to determine how often the site is accessed by TikTok users. All social media does this - TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, ******* NextDoor probably. It's normal. It's what social media does.

You get a notification of the TikTok one because the government is paranoid about China and chosen that one specifically to block, despite the fact that all the others have been happily installed in the background on the phone and are quietly and constantly reporting back to their respective owners. Nobody worries about them because they're not OMG China!

Receiving this notification does not mean that TikTok has access to your phone. In fact, the fact that you've got a notification saying that the analytic tracker was unauthorised means that the system is working and preventing that access. Please educate yourself about how the internet works and do not waste everyone's time with stupid issues that are completely normal like this.

No, I did not actually say that.

I believe I see where you went wrong in your thinking.

arthwollipot · 21st May 2023, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

I believe I see where you went wrong in your thinking.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe the fact that it's very, very simple and easy to understand means that nobody understands it. Oh well.

Norman Alexander · 21st May 2023, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I'm looking at an incident in our queue from someone who received a notification on their government mobile phone saying that an unauthorised TikTok analytic was detected. As you know a couple of weeks ago the Australian Government banned TikTok on all government-owned devices.

My response:

Yeah, this happens. It's normal. It's how stuff works. Welcome to the 21st Century.

What's happened here is that you have visited a website that has a TikTok analytic tracker on it, which is common and normal and millions of websites all over the internet have them. Trackers are used by TikTok to determine how often the site is accessed by TikTok users. All social media does this - TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, ******* NextDoor probably. It's normal. It's what social media does.

You get a notification of the TikTok one because the government is paranoid about China and chosen that one specifically to block, despite the fact that all the others have been happily installed in the background on the phone and are quietly and constantly reporting back to their respective owners. Nobody worries about them because they're not OMG China!

Receiving this notification does not mean that TikTok has access to your phone. In fact, the fact that you've got a notification saying that the analytic tracker was unauthorised means that the system is working and preventing that access. Please educate yourself about how the internet works and do not waste everyone's time with stupid issues that are completely normal like this.

No, I did not actually say that.

But we could hear you thinking that from here!

TragicMonkey · 22nd May 2023, 07:28 AM

Argh!!!!

Last month:

Them: "We want to use exactly the same logic and definitions and parameters for Project B that you use for Project A!"
Me: "Are you sure? Here's what all of those are:" [writes out in email]
Them: "Yes, yes, yes!"
Me: [sends the data requested, appending the text writing out all the logic, definitions, and parameters to the data itself, just in case...]

Today:

Them: "We don't understand what this is. Why is X? Why is Y? What does it meeeeeaaaaannnn?"
Me: "You said to use the same everything as Project A. Which was" [insert everything yet again]
Them: "Oh, that's all wrong for this."
Me: "Then what do you want?"
Them: "We don't know. What do you think we should want?"

Painful death is my suggestion.

Filippo Lippi · 22nd May 2023, 08:03 AM

Job failure last week

Us: we should change this to stop it happening again
Senior manager: No. Us people from olden times were very wise and did things for reasons, so we must never change them.
Me: (looks for job elsewhere)

JoeMorgue · 22nd May 2023, 08:14 AM

Boss.

The demanding dickturd of a user we have has demanding I drop what I am doing right now and do this thing that isn't even my job.

If I only have two options.

1) Just go ahead and do it to make him happy.
2) Tell him I won't do it, he calls you, you then tell me to do it and know I have to do it it anyway but in an even tighter timeframe and now the user is pissed off and being a little bratty child about it and this is how interactions with him go every time.

I a) have zero reason to not just give him what he wants as soon as he wants and b) that functionally makes him my boss, not you.

Bosses are annoying when the client always eventually is going to get what they want and everybody knows it.

TragicMonkey · 22nd May 2023, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Boss.

The demanding dickturd of a user we have has demanding I drop what I am doing right now and do this thing that isn't even my job.

If I only have two options.

1) Just go ahead and do it to make him happy.
2) Tell him I won't do it, he calls you, you then tell me to do it and know I have to do it it anyway but in an even tighter timeframe and now the user is pissed off and being a little bratty child about it and this is how interactions with him go every time.

I a) have zero reason to not just give him what he wants as soon as he wants and b) that functionally makes him my boss, not you.

Bosses are annoying when the client always eventually is going to get what they want and everybody knows it.

3) Do it, but do it badly. If confronted about it your defense is how could you do it right, it's not your job so you aren't familiar with it. And if you did it badly enough they're not going to ask you to do it again.

I only had to destroy two copy machines before they stopped asking me to fix copiers, or use copiers, or go into the room where the copiers were kept.

arthwollipot · 22nd May 2023, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Bosses are annoying when the client always eventually is going to get what they want and everybody knows it.

That's exactly what happened with the hell client I was talking about the other week. Our boss said that we should just immediately transfer her to someone in Premier Support which is exactly what she wants. Our boss told us that so that we could avoid any of us having to deal with her again, but the effect is the same - a problem child learns that throwing a tantrum works.

gnome · 23rd May 2023, 09:46 PM

I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings."

JimOfAllTrades · 23rd May 2023, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings."

My old partner actually did sort of that once. The customer insisted on a very odd implementation of a calculation. We tried to tell them about the problems that would eventually come up but in the end we did what they wanted. In the documentation he referred to the calculation as the CYBI process. No one ever asked us why it was named that, but a comment in the source code said CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!

Blue Mountain · 24th May 2023, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings."

That could be done as a note in the comments of the affected program, or in the commit message if source control is in use. Additionally, there should be a memo from the development team's manager to the client, and the memo itself referenced in the commit message.

arthwollipot · 24th May 2023, 06:19 PM

There's an APS5 Team Leader position going in a specialist Service Desk environment in my department. I'm going to apply for it. I've got to update a couple of things first.

The Man · 24th May 2023, 07:26 PM

Good luck arthwollipot.

Remember those still trudging in the trenches.

Blue Mountain · 25th May 2023, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

That's exactly what happened with the hell client I was talking about the other week. Our boss said that we should just immediately transfer her to someone in Premier Support which is exactly what she wants. Our boss told us that so that we could avoid any of us having to deal with her again, but the effect is the same - a problem child learns that throwing a tantrum works.

While it's unfortunate that this person has received yet another confirmation that being a pain in the ass works, this time it's a win/win. She gets direct access to Premier Support and you no longer have to deal with a difficult client.

I feel sorry for the folks in Premier Support.

arthwollipot · 25th May 2023, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

I feel sorry for the folks in Premier Support.

I wouldn't do their job for quids.

Donal · 26th May 2023, 01:39 PM

Putting in a ticket at 4:30 on a Friday of a holiday weekend and then clocking out puts you on our **** list. Personally, I think those should be withdrawn, but lucky for you my name isn't on the letterhead.

JoeMorgue · 26th May 2023, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings."

Yeah but like I keep saying covering your ass is

A) Not a free action and takes time and I can't put "covering my ass" on my timesheet.

B) After a certain point just wears you the hell down if you have to do it all the time.

The other problem is the contractors life of "At Will Employment Times 10."

Sure our contract lays out what actually are our duties and responsibilities, but they are under the unwritten rule of "Keep the Client Happy Or They Will Find Other IT Guys."

They can decide to cut the contract any time the want so "Well technically the contract says that's not my job" is often times rather academic.

TragicMonkey · 26th May 2023, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Putting in a ticket at 4:30 on a Friday of a holiday weekend and then clocking out puts you on our **** list. Personally, I think those should be withdrawn, but lucky for you my name isn't on the letterhead.

Back in my days of support, in that situation I'd wait ten minutes then email them back with some question about their issue, note in the ticket that the customer couldn't be reached to provide this vital information necessary to proceed, and change the ticket status to "pending customer response".

catsmate · 27th May 2023, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings."

I've done this for deployment projects, for standard build layers.

Included due to specify client request, signed off by IDIOTNAME, not recommended by implementation team and unsupported in all cases.

The Man · 28th May 2023, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Back in my days of support, in that situation I'd wait ten minutes then email them back with some question about their issue, note in the ticket that the customer couldn't be reached to provide this vital information necessary to proceed, and change the ticket status to "pending customer response".

Just make sure it is a question that hasn't already been answered or the information already provided. The last IT person who tried such a delaying tactic, a few times, on an issue I had would always reference information already provided. So I'd chat back with something like "Information already provided" and screen captures of the chat message with the information, "Only issue still pending on ticket XYQZ is IT support action."

The Man · 28th May 2023, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah but like I keep saying covering your ass is

A) Not a free action and takes time and I can't put "covering my ass" on my timesheet.

I've always considered it just part of normal documentation and communication. So if I've got to CMA on project !@#%^&* the time is just part of the normal project elements, development, documentation and communication. Heck, just filling out a time sheet can be time consuming so even that is folded into the project it is referencing.

TragicMonkey · 29th May 2023, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by The Man

Just make sure it is a question that hasn't already been answered or the information already provided.

Amongst the host of my many powers is the ability to ask questions nobody's ever asked before. I mean ever, in human history. Usually questions nobody would ever want to ask, and if they did, they certainly wouldn't want to know the answer to. Nevertheless it is a power and as such I employ it!

arthwollipot · 29th May 2023, 08:41 PM

So I'm now going to be acting in the Team Leader position for a month, starting next week.

Norman Alexander · 29th May 2023, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

So I'm now going to be acting in the Team Leader position for a month, starting next week.

For bigger bucks, let's hope!

arthwollipot · 29th May 2023, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

For bigger bucks, let's hope!

I believe I will be getting Higher Duties as an APS5 for the duration, yes.

Norman Alexander · 29th May 2023, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I believe I will be getting Higher Duties as an APS5 for the duration, yes.

Excellent!

BowlOfRed · 29th May 2023, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Putting in a ticket at 4:30 on a Friday of a holiday weekend and then clocking out puts you on our **** list. Personally, I think those should be withdrawn, but lucky for you my name isn't on the letterhead.

Are these some sort of "has to be done now" tickets?

I put in lots of tickets then because I find it as I'm trying to get out the door, but there's no expectation that folks are going to work on it during off-hours.

JoeMorgue · 30th May 2023, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by BowlOfRed

Are these some sort of "has to be done now" tickets?

In my experience about 50/50.

The Man · 30th May 2023, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

So I'm now going to be acting in the Team Leader position for a month, starting next week.

Break a leg.

Any chance that it will become more than just an act?

arthwollipot · 30th May 2023, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by The Man

Break a leg.

Any chance that it will become more than just an act?

The position will be advertised sometime in July or August, but I don't think I'll get it. There are at least two other people who have already shown that they can do the job well who are also likely to be applying.

Of course I'll apply. But I don't expect to get it this time.

The Man · 30th May 2023, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

The position will be advertised sometime in July or August, but I don't think I'll get it. There are at least two other people who have already shown that they can do the job well who are also likely to be applying.

Of course I'll apply. But I don't expect to get it this time.

Eh, worth a shot, act better than them. Least you're in it next week, not them, yet.

ETA: Heck, at least you gain experience and some reputation in the position. As they apparently have, for the next opening. Maybe see if it is something you actually want. Turned down a possible promotion to site engineer because I knew it was nothing I wanted and promised the one who took the position, I'd help them as much as I could. 20 years of experience at the site come this June. After 20 years of shift work, 12 hrs, 3 days on 4 off 4 on 3 off, I just can’t go back to working five days a week. I need the time off to do work around the house and take Moebob to her appointments.

quadraginta · 30th May 2023, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

The position will be advertised sometime in July or August, but I don't think I'll get it. There are at least two other people who have already shown that they can do the job well who are also likely to be applying.

Of course I'll apply. But I don't expect to get it this time.

Certainly there must be some underhanded way to sabotage their selection.

Check with TM. He has a natural talent for that sort of thing.

arthwollipot · 30th May 2023, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by The Man

Heck, at least you gain experience and some reputation in the position.

At the very least I will be able to put the magic word "supervise" on my resume. That alone opens doors.

Filippo Lippi · 30th May 2023, 11:09 PM

"You there, open that door"

arthwollipot · 30th May 2023, 11:43 PM

Norman Alexander · 30th May 2023, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi

"You there, open that door"

Sure, Mr Trump...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Wudang · 31st May 2023, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

The position will be advertised sometime in July or August, but I don't think I'll get it. There are at least two other people who have already shown that they can do the job well who are also likely to be applying.

Of course I'll apply. But I don't expect to get it this time.

Adding to others take : also practice in the interview.

Gord_in_Toronto · 31st May 2023, 08:43 AM

Possibly some advice I got when I joined the civil service might apply. I was told to apply for every position I was at least minimally qualified for because, maybe no one else would.

(Disclaimer: I don't remember it ever working for me.)

JoeMorgue · 31st May 2023, 10:54 AM

I'm sorry that I just have the kind of brain that DOESN'T clarify "Just so we're sure, you DON'T want this done the stupidest, most illogical, and most over complicated way?" to everything.

I got request in to setup a workstation. Fine. When I get the the desk sitting in the middle of the room. The request said the desk was going to go up against the wall. So I moved the desk against the wall where it said so it in the ticket, and sat up the workstation.

Well apparently that isn't what I was supposed to do. The user wanted me to set up the workstation on the desk in the middle of the room and the desk was going to be moved later which makes no sense since A) I can't do that since none of the power or data lines would reach and B) that's guaranteed to break something.

But apparently I should have "clarified." Sure, next time I'll make sure to ask "Oh and just so there's not confusion, you don't want your monitors mounted under your desk and the workstation mounted in the bathroom down the hall?"

21st May 2023, 08:34 PM	#2401
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	I'm looking at an incident in our queue from someone who received a notification on their government mobile phone saying that an unauthorised TikTok analytic was detected. As you know a couple of weeks ago the Australian Government banned TikTok on all government-owned devices. My response: Yeah, this happens. It's normal. It's how stuff works. Welcome to the 21st Century. What's happened here is that you have visited a website that has a TikTok analytic tracker on it, which is common and normal and millions of websites all over the internet have them. Trackers are used by TikTok to determine how often the site is accessed by TikTok users. All social media does this - TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, ******* NextDoor probably. It's normal. It's what social media does. You get a notification of the TikTok one because the government is paranoid about China and chosen that one specifically to block, despite the fact that all the others have been happily installed in the background on the phone and are quietly and constantly reporting back to their respective owners. Nobody worries about them because they're not OMG China! Receiving this notification does not mean that TikTok has access to your phone. In fact, the fact that you've got a notification saying that the analytic tracker was unauthorised means that the system is working and preventing that access. Please educate yourself about how the internet works and do not waste everyone's time with stupid issues that are completely normal like this. No, I did not actually say that.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

21st May 2023, 08:45 PM	#2402
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,869	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I'm looking at an incident in our queue from someone who received a notification on their government mobile phone saying that an unauthorised TikTok analytic was detected. As you know a couple of weeks ago the Australian Government banned TikTok on all government-owned devices. My response: Yeah, this happens. It's normal. It's how stuff works. Welcome to the 21st Century. What's happened here is that you have visited a website that has a TikTok analytic tracker on it, which is common and normal and millions of websites all over the internet have them. Trackers are used by TikTok to determine how often the site is accessed by TikTok users. All social media does this - TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, ******* NextDoor probably. It's normal. It's what social media does. You get a notification of the TikTok one because the government is paranoid about China and chosen that one specifically to block, despite the fact that all the others have been happily installed in the background on the phone and are quietly and constantly reporting back to their respective owners. Nobody worries about them because they're not OMG China! Receiving this notification does not mean that TikTok has access to your phone. In fact, the fact that you've got a notification saying that the analytic tracker was unauthorised means that the system is working and preventing that access. Please educate yourself about how the internet works and do not waste everyone's time with stupid issues that are completely normal like this. No, I did not actually say that. I believe I see where you went wrong in your thinking.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

21st May 2023, 08:48 PM	#2403
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	Originally Posted by quadraginta I believe I see where you went wrong in your thinking. Yeah, maybe. Maybe the fact that it's very, very simple and easy to understand means that nobody understands it. Oh well.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

21st May 2023, 08:48 PM	#2404
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I'm looking at an incident in our queue from someone who received a notification on their government mobile phone saying that an unauthorised TikTok analytic was detected. As you know a couple of weeks ago the Australian Government banned TikTok on all government-owned devices. My response: Yeah, this happens. It's normal. It's how stuff works. Welcome to the 21st Century. What's happened here is that you have visited a website that has a TikTok analytic tracker on it, which is common and normal and millions of websites all over the internet have them. Trackers are used by TikTok to determine how often the site is accessed by TikTok users. All social media does this - TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, ******* NextDoor probably. It's normal. It's what social media does. You get a notification of the TikTok one because the government is paranoid about China and chosen that one specifically to block, despite the fact that all the others have been happily installed in the background on the phone and are quietly and constantly reporting back to their respective owners. Nobody worries about them because they're not OMG China! Receiving this notification does not mean that TikTok has access to your phone. In fact, the fact that you've got a notification saying that the analytic tracker was unauthorised means that the system is working and preventing that access. Please educate yourself about how the internet works and do not waste everyone's time with stupid issues that are completely normal like this. No, I did not actually say that. But we could hear you *thinking* that from here!
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

22nd May 2023, 07:28 AM	#2405
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 66,035	Argh!!!! Last month: Them: "We want to use exactly the same logic and definitions and parameters for Project B that you use for Project A!" Me: "Are you sure? Here's what all of those are:" [writes out in email] Them: "Yes, yes, yes!" Me: [sends the data requested, appending the text writing out all the logic, definitions, and parameters to the data itself, just in case...] Today: Them: "We don't understand what this is. Why is X? Why is Y? What does it meeeeeaaaaannnn?" Me: "You said to use the same everything as Project A. Which was" [insert everything yet again] Them: "Oh, that's all wrong for this." Me: "Then what do you want?" Them: "We don't know. What do you think we should want?" Painful death is my suggestion.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

22nd May 2023, 08:03 AM	#2406
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 4,377	Job failure last week Us: we should change this to stop it happening again Senior manager: No. Us people from olden times were very wise and did things for reasons, so we must never change them. Me: (looks for job elsewhere)
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

22nd May 2023, 08:14 AM	#2407
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Boss. The demanding dickturd of a user we have has demanding I drop what I am doing right now and do this thing that isn't even my job. If I only have two options. 1) Just go ahead and do it to make him happy. 2) Tell him I won't do it, he calls you, you then tell me to do it and know I have to do it it anyway but in an even tighter timeframe and now the user is pissed off and being a little bratty child about it and this is how interactions with him go every time. I a) have zero reason to not just give him what he wants as soon as he wants and b) that functionally makes him my boss, not you. Bosses are annoying when the client always eventually is going to get what they want and everybody knows it.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

22nd May 2023, 08:55 AM	#2408
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 66,035	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Boss. The demanding dickturd of a user we have has demanding I drop what I am doing right now and do this thing that isn't even my job. If I only have two options. 1) Just go ahead and do it to make him happy. 2) Tell him I won't do it, he calls you, you then tell me to do it and know I have to do it it anyway but in an even tighter timeframe and now the user is pissed off and being a little bratty child about it and this is how interactions with him go every time. I a) have zero reason to not just give him what he wants as soon as he wants and b) that functionally makes him my boss, not you. Bosses are annoying when the client always eventually is going to get what they want and everybody knows it. 3) Do it, but do it badly. If confronted about it your defense is how could you do it right, it's not your job so you aren't familiar with it. And if you did it badly enough they're not going to ask you to do it again. I only had to destroy two copy machines before they stopped asking me to fix copiers, or use copiers, or go into the room where the copiers were kept.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

22nd May 2023, 10:58 PM	#2409
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Bosses are annoying when the client always eventually is going to get what they want and everybody knows it. That's exactly what happened with the hell client I was talking about the other week. Our boss said that we should just immediately transfer her to someone in Premier Support which is exactly what she wants. Our boss told us that so that we could avoid any of us having to deal with her again, but the effect is the same - a problem child learns that throwing a tantrum works.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

23rd May 2023, 09:46 PM	#2410
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,764	I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings."
	__________________

23rd May 2023, 11:28 PM	#2411
JimOfAllTrades Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,105	Originally Posted by gnome I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings." My old partner actually did sort of that once. The customer insisted on a very odd implementation of a calculation. We tried to tell them about the problems that would eventually come up but in the end we did what they wanted. In the documentation he referred to the calculation as the CYBI process. No one ever asked us why it was named that, but a comment in the source code said CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!

24th May 2023, 03:54 PM	#2412
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 7,339	Originally Posted by gnome I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings." That could be done as a note in the comments of the affected program, or in the commit message if source control is in use. Additionally, there should be a memo from the development team's manager to the client, and the memo itself referenced in the commit message.
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)

24th May 2023, 06:19 PM	#2413
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	There's an APS5 Team Leader position going in a specialist Service Desk environment in my department. I'm going to apply for it. I've got to update a couple of things first.
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24th May 2023, 07:26 PM	#2414
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 17,528	Good luck arthwollipot. Remember those still trudging in the trenches.
	__________________ BRAINZZZZZZZZ

25th May 2023, 03:14 PM	#2415
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 7,339	Originally Posted by arthwollipot That's exactly what happened with the hell client I was talking about the other week. Our boss said that we should just immediately transfer her to someone in Premier Support which is exactly what she wants. Our boss told us that so that we could avoid any of us having to deal with her again, but the effect is the same - a problem child learns that throwing a tantrum works. While it's unfortunate that this person has received yet another confirmation that being a pain in the ass works, this time it's a win/win. She gets direct access to Premier Support and you no longer have to deal with a difficult client. I feel sorry for the folks in Premier Support.
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)

25th May 2023, 08:32 PM	#2416
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain I feel sorry for the folks in Premier Support. I wouldn't do their job for quids.
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26th May 2023, 01:39 PM	#2417
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,628	Putting in a ticket at 4:30 on a Friday of a holiday weekend and then clocking out puts you on our **** list. Personally, I think those should be withdrawn, but lucky for you my name isn't on the letterhead.
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,628	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

26th May 2023, 01:48 PM	#2418
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Originally Posted by gnome I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings." Yeah but like I keep saying covering your ass is A) Not a free action and takes time and I can't put "covering my ass" on my timesheet. B) After a certain point just wears you the hell down if you have to do it all the time. The other problem is the contractors life of "At Will Employment Times 10." Sure our contract lays out what actually are our duties and responsibilities, but they are under the unwritten rule of "Keep the Client Happy Or They Will Find Other IT Guys." They can decide to cut the contract any time the want so "Well technically the contract says that's not my job" is often times rather academic.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

26th May 2023, 04:34 PM	#2419
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 66,035	Originally Posted by Donal Putting in a ticket at 4:30 on a Friday of a holiday weekend and then clocking out puts you on our **** list. Personally, I think those should be withdrawn, but lucky for you my name isn't on the letterhead. Back in my days of support, in that situation I'd wait ten minutes then email them back with some question about their issue, note in the ticket that the customer couldn't be reached to provide this vital information necessary to proceed, and change the ticket status to "pending customer response".
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

27th May 2023, 01:07 PM	#2420
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,613	Originally Posted by gnome I feel like there needs to be something standard in IT development where a requirement is formally noted: "This functionality goes against our recommendations and we are only including it because it's technically possible and the client absolutely insisted on it despite our warnings." I've done this for deployment projects, for standard build layers. Included due to specify client request, signed off by IDIOTNAME, not recommended by implementation team and unsupported in all cases.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th May 2023, 06:12 AM	#2421
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 17,528	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Back in my days of support, in that situation I'd wait ten minutes then email them back with some question about their issue, note in the ticket that the customer couldn't be reached to provide this vital information necessary to proceed, and change the ticket status to "pending customer response". Just make sure it is a question that hasn't already been answered or the information already provided. The last IT person who tried such a delaying tactic, a few times, on an issue I had would always reference information already provided. So I'd chat back with something like "Information already provided" and screen captures of the chat message with the information, "Only issue still pending on ticket XYQZ is IT support action."
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28th May 2023, 06:19 AM	#2422
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 17,528	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Yeah but like I keep saying covering your ass is A) Not a free action and takes time and I can't put "covering my ass" on my timesheet. I've always considered it just part of normal documentation and communication. So if I've got to CMA on project !@#%^&* the time is just part of the normal project elements, development, documentation and communication. Heck, just filling out a time sheet can be time consuming so even that is folded into the project it is referencing.
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29th May 2023, 07:51 AM	#2423
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 66,035	Originally Posted by The Man Just make sure it is a question that hasn't already been answered or the information already provided. Amongst the host of my many powers is the ability to ask questions nobody's ever asked before. I mean ever, in human history. Usually questions nobody would ever want to ask, and if they did, they certainly wouldn't want to know the answer to. Nevertheless it is a power and as such I employ it!
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

29th May 2023, 08:41 PM	#2424
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	So I'm now going to be acting in the Team Leader position for a month, starting next week.
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29th May 2023, 08:57 PM	#2425
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by arthwollipot So I'm now going to be acting in the Team Leader position for a month, starting next week. For bigger bucks, let's hope!
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

29th May 2023, 08:58 PM	#2426
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander For bigger bucks, let's hope! I believe I will be getting Higher Duties as an APS5 for the duration, yes.
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29th May 2023, 09:10 PM	#2427
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I believe I will be getting Higher Duties as an APS5 for the duration, yes. Excellent!
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

29th May 2023, 09:20 PM	#2428
BowlOfRed Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 2,341	Originally Posted by Donal Putting in a ticket at 4:30 on a Friday of a holiday weekend and then clocking out puts you on our **** list. Personally, I think those should be withdrawn, but lucky for you my name isn't on the letterhead. Are these some sort of "has to be done now" tickets? I put in lots of tickets then because I find it as I'm trying to get out the door, but there's no expectation that folks are going to work on it during off-hours.

30th May 2023, 05:46 AM	#2429
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Originally Posted by BowlOfRed Are these some sort of "has to be done now" tickets? In my experience about 50/50.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

30th May 2023, 06:48 AM	#2430
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 17,528	Originally Posted by arthwollipot So I'm now going to be acting in the Team Leader position for a month, starting next week. Break a leg. Any chance that it will become more than just an act?
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30th May 2023, 08:07 PM	#2431
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	Originally Posted by The Man Break a leg. Any chance that it will become more than just an act? The position will be advertised sometime in July or August, but I don't think I'll get it. There are at least two other people who have already shown that they can do the job well who are also likely to be applying. Of course I'll apply. But I don't expect to get it this time.
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30th May 2023, 09:31 PM	#2432
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 17,528	Originally Posted by arthwollipot The position will be advertised sometime in July or August, but I don't think I'll get it. There are at least two other people who have already shown that they can do the job well who are also likely to be applying. Of course I'll apply. But I don't expect to get it this time. Eh, worth a shot, act better than them. Least you're in it next week, not them, yet. ETA: Heck, at least you gain experience and some reputation in the position. As they apparently have, for the next opening. Maybe see if it is something you actually want. Turned down a possible promotion to site engineer because I knew it was nothing I wanted and promised the one who took the position, I'd help them as much as I could. 20 years of experience at the site come this June. After 20 years of shift work, 12 hrs, 3 days on 4 off 4 on 3 off, I just can’t go back to working five days a week. I need the time off to do work around the house and take Moebob to her appointments.
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30th May 2023, 09:50 PM	#2433
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,869	Originally Posted by arthwollipot The position will be advertised sometime in July or August, but I don't think I'll get it. There are at least two other people who have already shown that they can do the job well who are also likely to be applying. Of course I'll apply. But I don't expect to get it this time. Certainly there must be some underhanded way to sabotage their selection. Check with TM. He has a natural talent for that sort of thing.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

30th May 2023, 10:27 PM	#2434
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	Originally Posted by The Man Heck, at least you gain experience and some reputation in the position. At the very least I will be able to put the magic word "supervise" on my resume. That alone opens doors.
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30th May 2023, 11:09 PM	#2435
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 4,377	"You there, open that door"
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis