[Continuation] Cancel culture IRL Part 2 - Page 3

smartcooky · 28th September 2021, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists.

It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you.

This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud.

Pretextual mewling about "free speech" and the "marketplace of ideas". As I said earlier, if you are not against them, then you are enabling them, you are helping them to stay out of sight to grow and thrive. That makes you part of the problem.

You also seem to be confusing "nazi" with "fascist"

Emily's Cat · 28th September 2021, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

But really how can you write a whole paragraph about how unfair I’m using nazi after you wrote this:

Do you not understand what tactics are?

Delphic Oracle · 28th September 2021, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists.

It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you.

This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud.

Well there's "not supporting" and then there's "actively defending."

But what's important in this discussion is that you are the victim in all of this.

d4m10n · 28th September 2021, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Did you forget there was a witness?

Are you taking their word for it?

dirtywick · 28th September 2021, 03:20 PM

The real victims are the holocaust deniers who lose their anonymity and are held socially accountable for their voluntary words and actions. To non-violently confront ideas you disagree with using words on social media is really the tactics used by authoritarians and fascists.

smartcooky · 28th September 2021, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Are you taking their word for it?

Is there a valid reason not to?

Do you have evidence that the witness lied?

Emily's Cat · 28th September 2021, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Well there's "not supporting" and then there's "actively defending."

But what's important in this discussion is that you are the victim in all of this.

I'm annoyed but I'm certainly not a victim. But whatever. Keep on ad homing.

Delphic Oracle · 28th September 2021, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I'm annoyed but I'm certainly not a victim. But whatever. Keep on ad homing.

Says the person comparing others to nazis.

Emily's Cat · 28th September 2021, 03:39 PM

On a bit more of a "wtf" note...

Apparently NYP is out to cancel a mentally ill homeless person.

This hate-filled NYC homeless man is bane of the neighborhood

Emily's Cat · 28th September 2021, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Says the person comparing others to nazis.

I didn't compare anyone to nazis. Read more better.

TurkeysGhost · 28th September 2021, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

On a bit more of a "wtf" note...

Apparently NYP is out to cancel a mentally ill homeless person.

This hate-filled NYC homeless man is bane of the neighborhood

What they gonna do, get him fired?

Emily's Cat · 28th September 2021, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

What they gonna do, get him fired?

More likely to get him harassed, verbally and physically abused, and potentially killed.

smartcooky · 28th September 2021, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I didn't compare anyone to nazis. Read more better.

Learn English grammar

d4m10n · 28th September 2021, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Is there a valid reason not to?

If the potential consequences are someone losing their job, I'd practice a bit more skepticism than trusting an unidentified rando answering a leading question in a 30-second video clip.

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Do you have evidence that the witness lied?

He needn't've lied to be incorrect.

smartcooky · 29th September 2021, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

If the potential consequences are someone losing their job, I'd practice a bit more skepticism than trusting an unidentified rando answering a leading question in a 30-second video clip.

So, that will be no then

Originally Posted by d4m10n

He needn't've lied to be incorrect.

So, that will also be no then

TurkeysGhost · 29th September 2021, 04:29 AM

I'm sure the cancel culture pundits will be along any time now to condemn these racist and censorious groups going around trying to mass purge books from public schools:

Quote:

School books about Martin Luther King Jr. are too “divisive,” claims a conservative group at the center of a Tennessee book ban battle. A story about the astronomer Galileo Galilei is “anti-church.” A picture book about seahorses is too sexy.

As the school year resumes, simmering fights over school books have returned to a boil. In some schools, like in Pennsylvania’s Central York School District this week, students have beaten back bans on books about racism. But elsewhere, like in Tennessee’s Williamson County School District, the battle is ongoing, bolstered by new state laws that ban the teaching of certain race-related topics. At the heart of that fight is a conservative group, led by a private-school parent, that has a sprawling list of complaints against common classroom books. Many of the books are about race, but other targets include dragons, sad little owls, and hurricanes.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-ri...luther-king-jr

Darat · 29th September 2021, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

....snip...

What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.

TurkeysGhost · 29th September 2021, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.

Don't be unfair, let's hear what the gentleman wearing a "Right Wing Death Squad" patch on his combat gear while menacing people in the public square has to say before we judge.

TurkeysGhost · 29th September 2021, 06:05 AM

Let's wait for Bari Weiss to have this cancelled academic on her substack.

Quote:

ISRAELI DIPLOMAT PRESSURED UNC TO REMOVE TEACHER WHO CRITICIZED ISRAEL
An Israeli consul general baselessly accused a graduate student of antisemitism and said she shouldn’t teach a course on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

THIS AUGUST, Israeli consular officials in the southeast U.S. arranged meetings with a dean at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill to discuss a graduate student teaching a course on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. According to two UNC professors with knowledge of the meetings, who asked for anonymity for fear of retribution, the Israeli official accused the Ph.D. student of antisemitism and said she was unfit to teach the course.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/28/...demic-freedom/

JoeMorgue · 29th September 2021, 06:16 AM

Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.

TurkeysGhost · 29th September 2021, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.

It's hard to gauge, but I generally get the impression that these hilariously obtuse arguments simply don't have the sway they used to. Even people who might be squeamish about more overt types of antifascism increasingly recognize that these defense of fascists in the name of civility and free speech are moronic and/or extremely misguided.

Pearl clutching doesn't work like it used to, at least to my estimation.

Darat · 29th September 2021, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.

Yep.

Apparently if you say a Nazi is a bad person you are going to start shooting grannies for telling their grandson they are the most handsome kid in the world.

TurkeysGhost · 29th September 2021, 06:32 AM

Interesting piece, and some refreshing honesty here for someone who has a job on legacy media.

Quote:

"'Great replacement theory' gets people killed and yet you now have Tucker Carlson defending it, promoting it, mainstreaming it. And elected Republicans are now following in his footsteps."

My deep dive into 'great replacement theory.'

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...09509711130630

We don't have to pretend we don't know how this kind of rhetoric ends. Carlson and his fans are ethnonationalists and fascists and they are dangerous. Cancelling them, if possible, seems like an incredibly positive solution. More likely a good bit of blood is going to be spilt first, but such are the wages for ignoring the dangers of an increasingly reactionary and radicalized right in this country.

The fascist threat in this country (and abroad) is a 'all hands on deck' emergency. Those downplaying the danger they face are carrying water for those that desire to commit genocide, and it is becoming increasingly noncredible that they don't know it the longer this goes on.

d4m10n · 29th September 2021, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

So, that will be no then

Not exactly, no.

You seem to want someone sacked on the word of a random person on the street, someone who didn't say whether he was assenting to a paraphrased version or an exact quotation. This is witch hunt mentality, no time to stop and get the facts straight.

The idea of people wanting other people to stay in their own neighborhoods isn't unusual or necessarily related to racial animus. In the ½ sq. mi. where I live we've two distinct neighborhoods, Trails (Original) and Trails North. They've got different neighborhood associations and amenities, and sometimes people get in a tizzy when folks go from one to the other to use facilities which their HOA doesn't support or maintain. I doubt anyone would say "back to your hood" (hardly anyone around here listens to Pooh Shiesty) but the sentiment is basically the same.

ponderingturtle · 29th September 2021, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Says the person comparing others to nazis.

But of course never calls the white supremacists, holocaust deniers and the like nazis for some reason.

Emily's Cat · 29th September 2021, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.

Sure. How do you propose to limit the torches and pitchforks to ONLY self-declared nazis?

Are there other beliefs that you find odious enough to advocate for extrajudicial punishments?

Emily's Cat · 29th September 2021, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Interesting piece, and some refreshing honesty here for someone who has a job on legacy media.

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...09509711130630

We don't have to pretend we don't know how this kind of rhetoric ends. Carlson and his fans are ethnonationalists and fascists and they are dangerous. Cancelling them, if possible, seems like an incredibly positive solution. More likely a good bit of blood is going to be spilt first, but such are the wages for ignoring the dangers of an increasingly reactionary and radicalized right in this country.

The fascist threat in this country (and abroad) is a 'all hands on deck' emergency. Those downplaying the danger they face are carrying water for those that desire to commit genocide, and it is becoming increasingly noncredible that they don't know it the longer this goes on.

Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?

TurkeysGhost · 29th September 2021, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?

Since you're so sharp at reading murderous intent in a statement, what do you make of Tucker Carlson preaching that ethnic replacement is a dire threat to this country?

JoeMorgue · 29th September 2021, 09:34 AM

"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...

TurkeysGhost · 29th September 2021, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...

To be fair, doing nothing while this country slips into fascism would be very orderly. Sure, there would be state and political violence at mass scale, but it would be organized and only happen to those that broke the rules. After a while you wouldn't even notice the things you lost.

Doing anything to stop this would be awfully noisy and chaotic, and we can't have that.

tyr_13 · 29th September 2021, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...

It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy² in addition to being wrong².

Emily's Cat · 29th September 2021, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Since you're so sharp at reading murderous intent in a statement, what do you make of Tucker Carlson preaching that ethnic replacement is a dire threat to this country?

You're going to have to provide a link with full context before I can opine in any way.

Emily's Cat · 29th September 2021, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy² in addition to being wrong².

Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.

TurkeysGhost · 29th September 2021, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.

Yeah, that sounds bad. Maybe us good people should decide we don't want to associate with such bad actors. Maybe we should identify and ostracize all these people wanting to commit political based murders. Probably be a good idea to raise a stink whenever some ghoul went of TV advocating a policy of ethnic cleansing.

lobosrul5 · 29th September 2021, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.

You'll need to provide a link showing where murdering fascists is being suggested as a solution. I just haven't seen it here.

JoeMorgue · 29th September 2021, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Oh ah... the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plans. A stitch in time saves 9. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. A watched pot never boils.

Stopping a wrong is not wrong, so you don't have to factor it into some thought terminating truism.

JoeMorgue · 29th September 2021, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy² in addition to being wrong².

Not to beat this drum yet again but this also sounds a lot like the "I can't ignore you engaging the troll, so you have to ignore the troll" thing which I can't stand.

This fits in well with my observation that among this... type of people it's seen as better to have no standards (intellectual, moral, ethical, legal, whatever) then it is have standards and commit the Cardinal Sin of not living up to a 100% strawman, super-literal, no accounting for context version of them.

Here's how their thought process seems to works.

1. Someone tells them anything. This triggers the "How dare you tell me what to think!" subroutine. The idea that someone else has given them information they don't have offends them on a deep level and it drives them crazy. So much of their personal identity is wrapped up in "thinking for themselves" that they have started to actively rejected external information.

2. They immediately start looking for reasons the other person is a "hypocrite." And the way they do this is take the person's values, create a hyper-strawman version of them, find an incident where the person didn't live up to that version of their "standards.

For instance. AOC is actually pretty poor for a member of Congress, but she does make a halfway decent living, drives a fairly nice car, stuff like that. I mean just living in DC is goddamn expensive so I'm sure on a literal level she does throw around more money than average. But AOC is pretty far on the Left and speaks out a lot on class and wage disparity and the ultrawealthy. So the fact that AOC drives a Tesla means she's a... HYPOCRITE while a Republican Congressman worth many, many times more isn't. She is demonized for having standards. If you don't have standards you can never be a hypocrite, never be pretentious, never have to be taken down a peg, can't ever be "not as smart as you think you are" and all those other faults that these people focus on. The only sin you can commit to these people is aiming high and not making it. Wallow in the gutter and you can never let anyone down.

Now me, I operate much more on the "The pot can call the kettle black and the kettle can still be black" side of things. Hypocrisy is certainly an annoying personal trait but it doesn't override actual facts. Not matter the pot and kettles opinion of each other's blackness the RGB and Luminosity values of said pot and said kettle are verifiable facts that exist indendenatly. If I point a DataColor ColorReader at the pot and it returns an RGB value of #000000 the pot is black and the kettle's opinion is no longer needed or matters. The pot, the kettle, or anyone else can be hypocritical about the color of the pot or kettle they want, the facts don't change.

A person who says global warming is a problem and drives a nice car is STILL ******* CORRECT THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS A PROBLEM. Class Disparage isn't not a thing just because AOC doesn't live in a cardboard box and take the bus.

This is why discussions with them always have to take place in some fantasy world they are making up. They never want to discuss events as they actually happened but alternate timelines they are making up in the brain where they can control all the variables.

That's why we have a dozen threads at random point on this board where there's one person who on top of a hill going "If you ignore all the reasons I'm wrong and judge my argument solely on my alternative universe version of events then you'll have to admit I'm right."

Darat · 29th September 2021, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Sure. How do you propose to limit the torches and pitchforks to ONLY self-declared nazis?

Are there other beliefs that you find odious enough to advocate for extrajudicial punishments?

Extrajudicial? What on earth are you getting confused about now?

Darat · 29th September 2021, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?

Nope that is what anyone saying they are a Nazi is advocating for, that is why it should be illegal to be a Nazi, it is like any other terrorist ideology.

It is not being fascist to resist those trying to murder your fellow citizens.

JoeMorgue · 29th September 2021, 11:01 AM

Again one day, God willing, I will find a woman who loves me as much as Internet Free Speech Advocates love Nazis.

You will get fewer Free Speech Advocates to run screeching out of the woodwork at you if you actually go "I'm against Free Speech" then you will if you are against Nazis.

28th September 2021, 12:02 PM	#81
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,587	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists. It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you. This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud. Pretextual mewling about "free speech" and the "marketplace of ideas". As I said earlier, if you are not against them, then you are enabling them, you are helping them to stay out of sight to grow and thrive. That makes you part of the problem. You also seem to be confusing "nazi" with "fascist"
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass. Last edited by smartcooky; 28th September 2021 at 12:10 PM.

28th September 2021, 02:24 PM	#82
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,642	Originally Posted by dirtywick But really how can you write a whole paragraph about how unfair I’m using nazi after you wrote this: Do you not understand what tactics are?
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

28th September 2021, 03:16 PM	#84
d4m10n Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 10,907	Originally Posted by smartcooky Did you forget there was a witness? Are you taking their word for it?
	__________________ Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.

28th September 2021, 03:20 PM	#85
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,373	The real victims are the holocaust deniers who lose their anonymity and are held socially accountable for their voluntary words and actions. To non-violently confront ideas you disagree with using words on social media is really the tactics used by authoritarians and fascists.
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,373

28th September 2021, 03:34 PM	#86
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,587	Originally Posted by d4m10n Are you taking their word for it? Is there a valid reason not to? Do you have evidence that the witness lied?
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

28th September 2021, 03:10 PM	#83
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,311	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists. It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you. This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud. Well there's "not supporting" and then there's "actively defending." But what's important in this discussion is that you are the victim in all of this.

28th September 2021, 03:37 PM	#87
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,642	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle Well there's "not supporting" and then there's "actively defending." But what's important in this discussion is that you are the victim in all of this. I'm annoyed but I'm certainly not a victim. But whatever. Keep on ad homing.
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

28th September 2021, 03:38 PM	#88
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 6,311	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat I'm annoyed but I'm certainly not a victim. But whatever. Keep on ad homing. Says the person comparing others to nazis.

28th September 2021, 03:39 PM	#89
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,642	On a bit more of a "wtf" note... Apparently NYP is out to cancel a mentally ill homeless person. This hate-filled NYC homeless man is bane of the neighborhood
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

28th September 2021, 04:31 PM	#91
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat On a bit more of a "wtf" note... Apparently NYP is out to cancel a mentally ill homeless person. This hate-filled NYC homeless man is bane of the neighborhood What they gonna do, get him fired?
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

28th September 2021, 04:58 PM	#92
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,642	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey What they gonna do, get him fired? More likely to get him harassed, verbally and physically abused, and potentially killed.
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

28th September 2021, 05:27 PM	#93
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,587	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat I didn't compare anyone to nazis. Read more better. Learn English grammar
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

28th September 2021, 06:37 PM	#94
d4m10n Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 10,907	Originally Posted by smartcooky Is there a valid reason not to? If the potential consequences are someone losing their job, I'd practice a bit more skepticism than trusting an unidentified rando answering a leading question in a 30-second video clip. Originally Posted by smartcooky Do you have evidence that the witness lied? He needn't've lied to be incorrect.
	__________________ Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it. Last edited by d4m10n; 28th September 2021 at 06:42 PM.

29th September 2021, 12:31 AM	#95
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,587	Originally Posted by d4m10n If the potential consequences are someone losing their job, I'd practice a bit more skepticism than trusting an unidentified rando answering a leading question in a 30-second video clip. So, that will be no then Originally Posted by d4m10n He needn't've lied to be incorrect. So, that will also be no then
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

29th September 2021, 04:29 AM	#96
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	I'm sure the cancel culture pundits will be along any time now to condemn these racist and censorious groups going around trying to mass purge books from public schools: Quote: School books about Martin Luther King Jr. are too “divisive,” claims a conservative group at the center of a Tennessee book ban battle. A story about the astronomer Galileo Galilei is “anti-church.” A picture book about seahorses is too sexy. As the school year resumes, simmering fights over school books have returned to a boil. In some schools, like in Pennsylvania’s Central York School District this week, students have beaten back bans on books about racism. But elsewhere, like in Tennessee’s Williamson County School District, the battle is ongoing, bolstered by new state laws that ban the teaching of certain race-related topics. At the heart of that fight is a conservative group, led by a private-school parent, that has a sprawling list of complaints against common classroom books. Many of the books are about race, but other targets include dragons, sad little owls, and hurricanes. https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-ri...luther-king-jr
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

29th September 2021, 04:35 AM	#97
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,587	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat ....snip... What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

29th September 2021, 04:40 AM	#98
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	Originally Posted by Darat What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated. Don't be unfair, let's hear what the gentleman wearing a "Right Wing Death Squad" patch on his combat gear while menacing people in the public square has to say before we judge.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

29th September 2021, 06:05 AM	#99
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	Let's wait for Bari Weiss to have this cancelled academic on her substack. Quote: ISRAELI DIPLOMAT PRESSURED UNC TO REMOVE TEACHER WHO CRITICIZED ISRAEL An Israeli consul general baselessly accused a graduate student of antisemitism and said she shouldn’t teach a course on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. THIS AUGUST, Israeli consular officials in the southeast U.S. arranged meetings with a dean at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill to discuss a graduate student teaching a course on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. According to two UNC professors with knowledge of the meetings, who asked for anonymity for fear of retribution, the Israeli official accused the Ph.D. student of antisemitism and said she was unfit to teach the course. https://theintercept.com/2021/09/28/...demic-freedom/
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

29th September 2021, 06:16 AM	#100
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,080	Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

29th September 2021, 06:28 AM	#101
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN. It's hard to gauge, but I generally get the impression that these hilariously obtuse arguments simply don't have the sway they used to. Even people who might be squeamish about more overt types of antifascism increasingly recognize that these defense of fascists in the name of civility and free speech are moronic and/or extremely misguided. Pearl clutching doesn't work like it used to, at least to my estimation.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 29th September 2021 at 06:30 AM.

29th September 2021, 06:29 AM	#102
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,587	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN. Yep. Apparently if you say a Nazi is a bad person you are going to start shooting grannies for telling their grandson they are the most handsome kid in the world.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

29th September 2021, 06:32 AM	#103
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	Interesting piece, and some refreshing honesty here for someone who has a job on legacy media. Quote: "'Great replacement theory' gets people killed and yet you now have Tucker Carlson defending it, promoting it, mainstreaming it. And elected Republicans are now following in his footsteps." My deep dive into 'great replacement theory.' https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...09509711130630 We don't have to pretend we don't know how this kind of rhetoric ends. Carlson and his fans are ethnonationalists and fascists and they are dangerous. Cancelling them, if possible, seems like an incredibly positive solution. More likely a good bit of blood is going to be spilt first, but such are the wages for ignoring the dangers of an increasingly reactionary and radicalized right in this country. The fascist threat in this country (and abroad) is a 'all hands on deck' emergency. Those downplaying the danger they face are carrying water for those that desire to commit genocide, and it is becoming increasingly noncredible that they don't know it the longer this goes on.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 29th September 2021 at 06:35 AM.

29th September 2021, 06:36 AM	#104
d4m10n Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 10,907	Originally Posted by smartcooky So, that will be no then Not exactly, no. You seem to want someone sacked on the word of a random person on the street, someone who didn't say whether he was assenting to a paraphrased version or an exact quotation. This is witch hunt mentality, no time to stop and get the facts straight. The idea of people wanting other people to stay in their own neighborhoods isn't unusual or necessarily related to racial animus. In the ½ sq. mi. where I live we've two distinct neighborhoods, Trails (Original) and Trails North. They've got different neighborhood associations and amenities, and sometimes people get in a tizzy when folks go from one to the other to use facilities which their HOA doesn't support or maintain. I doubt anyone would say "back to your hood" (hardly anyone around here listens to Pooh Shiesty) but the sentiment is basically the same.
	__________________ Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it. Last edited by d4m10n; 29th September 2021 at 06:49 AM.

29th September 2021, 06:40 AM	#105
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 53,068	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle Says the person comparing others to nazis. But of course never calls the white supremacists, holocaust deniers and the like nazis for some reason.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

29th September 2021, 09:22 AM	#106
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,642	Originally Posted by Darat What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated. Sure. How do you propose to limit the torches and pitchforks to ONLY self-declared nazis? Are there other beliefs that you find odious enough to advocate for extrajudicial punishments?
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

29th September 2021, 09:25 AM	#107
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,642	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Interesting piece, and some refreshing honesty here for someone who has a job on legacy media. https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...09509711130630 We don't have to pretend we don't know how this kind of rhetoric ends. Carlson and his fans are ethnonationalists and fascists and they are dangerous. Cancelling them, if possible, seems like an incredibly positive solution. More likely a good bit of blood is going to be spilt first, but such are the wages for ignoring the dangers of an increasingly reactionary and radicalized right in this country. The fascist threat in this country (and abroad) is a 'all hands on deck' emergency. Those downplaying the danger they face are carrying water for those that desire to commit genocide, and it is becoming increasingly noncredible that they don't know it the longer this goes on. Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder? Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

29th September 2021, 09:30 AM	#108
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder? Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature? Since you're so sharp at reading murderous intent in a statement, what do you make of Tucker Carlson preaching that ethnic replacement is a dire threat to this country?
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

29th September 2021, 09:34 AM	#109
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,080	"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument. Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please. //ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

29th September 2021, 09:37 AM	#110
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue "You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument. Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please. //ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over... To be fair, doing nothing while this country slips into fascism would be very orderly. Sure, there would be state and political violence at mass scale, but it would be organized and only happen to those that broke the rules. After a while you wouldn't even notice the things you lost. Doing anything to stop this would be awfully noisy and chaotic, and we can't have that.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

29th September 2021, 10:11 AM	#111
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 17,630	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue "You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument. Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please. //ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over... It's even dumber than that. 'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.' It's hypocrisy² in addition to being wrong².
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

29th September 2021, 10:18 AM	#112
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,642	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Since you're so sharp at reading murderous intent in a statement, what do you make of Tucker Carlson preaching that ethnic replacement is a dire threat to this country? You're going to have to provide a link with full context before I can opine in any way.
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

29th September 2021, 10:19 AM	#113
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 19,642	Originally Posted by tyr_13 It's even dumber than that. 'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.' It's hypocrisy² in addition to being wrong². Two wrongs don't make a right. If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such. Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.
	__________________ The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian

29th September 2021, 10:22 AM	#114
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,583	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Two wrongs don't make a right. If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such. Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too. Yeah, that sounds bad. Maybe us good people should decide we don't want to associate with such bad actors. Maybe we should identify and ostracize all these people wanting to commit political based murders. Probably be a good idea to raise a stink whenever some ghoul went of TV advocating a policy of ethnic cleansing.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

29th September 2021, 10:24 AM	#115
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,718	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Two wrongs don't make a right. If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such. Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too. You'll need to provide a link showing where murdering fascists is being suggested as a solution. I just haven't seen it here.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,718

29th September 2021, 10:31 AM	#116
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,080	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Two wrongs don't make a right. Oh ah... the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plans. A stitch in time saves 9. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. A watched pot never boils. Stopping a wrong is not wrong, so you don't have to factor it into some thought terminating truism.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.