Merged: Musk buys Twitter!/ Elon Musk puts Twitter deal on hold....

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by ahhell

Seriously, isn't that what twitter is most famous for? Its like those reporters out there kvetching about billionaires buying media outlets when they work for Jeff Bezos or recently worked for Carlos Slim.

I think twitter is most famous for stupid celebs making fools of themsleves on it....

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

And of course there are predictable outcomes for people Musk puts in his sights including those who are ostensibly his future employees….

Uh, I think that tweet just broke a couple of the TOS rules here......

But, yeah, if twitter becomes like 4 chan, look for a massive migration to other media.
Real question is how long until Musk gets tired of new toy?

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

There are nut jobs on Twitter. This isn’t news. But what exactly is your point? Should Musk refrain from saying anything critical because some nut jobs might say nasty things in response? That’s just a heckler’s veto, and why would we ever want to go down that road? Evaluate what he said on its own terms. Was he wrong? Was it actually the right thing to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story, even though it was true?

Apparently he should refrain from saying things critical of Twitter staff.

Why? Because he agreed to it as part of the deal to buy Twitter, apparently.

Quote:

Controversy grew on Wednesday over tweets from Elon Musk engaging with criticism of Twitter employees, despite a promise from the entrepreneur not to “disparage” the company or its representatives while he completes the deal to acquire the social media platform.

The world’s richest man agreed to restrictions on his tweets as part of a 95-page agreement covering his $44bn acquisition filed on Tuesday.

However, a day after signing the agreement, which was published on the website of the US securities regulator, Musk responded to tweets from two political commentators that criticised Twitter staff.

Link

If someone was about to buy your company and they decided to broadcast tweets mocking you beforehand, you may think it is dickish to do so even if the point was not technically false.

And I already did evaluate the tweet on its own terms. I wrote this, and you didn't address it:

Quote:

Tim Pool’s point itself could be seen as just as circular as the Twitter exec’s and in fact it allows Pool to say that anything he wants is left wing bias. If you think January 6th was a dangerous event and maybe people should not be tweeting their support of it if they can plausibly be seen to be inviting it then sure you can call it “left-wing bias” if your interpretation of the context is biased in favour of crazy right-wing bias: ie the claim the election was stolen! I guess right-wingers have just embraced post-modernism.

So you are criticizing me for not doing something I did do, on the basis that I also did something else.

[Frank Newgent]

Originally Posted by ahhell

Originally Posted by Frank Newgent

Why is twitter such a big deal? Here in the US about one in five use it to express opinions. I don´t understand the fuss.

Fairly miss leading, about 1 in 5 folks in the US use twitter. 80% of tweets are from about 10% of users though.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...s-and-twitter/

80% of tweets are from about 2% of the population then? I have an idea.

Ignore them.

[The Great Zaganza]

I put even odds on Musk backing out of buying Twitter: it would seriously endanger Tesla's relationship with China.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

I put even odds on Musk backing out of buying Twitter: it would seriously endanger Tesla's relationship with China.

His antics almost make it look like he's trying to scupper the purchase but in a way that he can blame Twitter.

"The deal is off because you broke the rules"
"See? They hate free speech. They used a heckler's veto. Oh well... I tried guys, but the game is rigged. It's rigged I tells ya!"

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

And of course there are predictable outcomes for people Musk puts in his sights including those who are ostensibly his future employees….

Probably not his future employee in that case. I don't know how she still has a job, after being responsible for censoring the Hunter Biden laptop story.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

I put even odds on Musk backing out of buying Twitter: it would seriously endanger Tesla's relationship with China.

I don't know anything about Musk and China except that Bezos made some related comment I wasn't interested enough in to bite the clickbait headline.

But I think it's interesting that Musk recently played some game with Bitcoin to drive up the price.

May 2021: Claims That Elon Musk Is Manipulating Crypto Markets Continue

Quote:

... he does retain his role as one of the most influential cryptocurrency investors out there. That's exactly why some want to hold him accountable for crypto market manipulation. ...

Musk has been particularly vocal about his positions in Bitcoin (BTC) and Dogecoin (DOGE). Recently, he reversed his decision to have Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) accept Bitcoin as payment over environmental concerns, which correlated with a measurable drop in the coin's value.

This comes just a couple of months after Tesla invested $1.5 billion in Bitcoin. Around that time, the currency gained 35 percent in value over the course of February.

Meanwhile, the last month hasn't been so kind to Bitcoin, which has fallen 21.42 percent during that time period. Current valuation is $51,039.60 per coin.

Musk has also publicized his position in Dogecoin, which has increased in value dramatically since the start of the year. With 24-hour returns at 26.58 percent, YTD returns are as high as 11,175.54 percent.

Right now, there's an unknown Dogecoin holder with 36.7 billion dogecoin, which is a massive 28 percent of the entire circulating supply. As the current price is around $0.53 per DOGE (and rising), that whale has a Dogecoin position worth about $20 billion.

And then I saw this today:

Musk ordered to abide by SEC settlement over 2018 tweets

Quote:

A federal judge has rejected Elon Musk’s bid to throw out a securities fraud settlement over tweets claiming that Musk had the funding to take Tesla private in 2018. ...

The whole dispute stems from an October 2018 agreement with the SEC that Musk signed. He and Tesla each agreed to pay $20 million in civil fines over Musk’s tweets about having the “funding secured” to take Tesla private at $420 per share.

The funding was far from locked up, and the electric vehicle company remains public, but Tesla’s stock price jumped. The settlement specified governance changes, including Musk’s ouster as board chairman, as well as pre-approval of his tweets.

So he buys 15% stake in Twitter then drives the price up with claims he's locked up the funding to buy the whole company to take it private. Is there an echo in this room?

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Just sayin' ...

[The Great Zaganza]

If Musk backs out, he'll have to pay at least $1 billions. It would have to be a big speculation playoff to offset that.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

If Musk backs out, he'll have to pay at least $1 billions. It would have to be a big speculation playoff to offset that.

1) Why would he have to pay that?

2) Are there any escape clauses?

3) Who knows if he stands to make more than that until the deal actually doesn't go through.

4) Maybe he isn't good at the math.

5) Is the Bitcoin/Dogecoin and Tesla market manipulation just a coincidence?

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Brainster

Probably not his future employee in that case. I don't know how she still has a job, after being responsible for censoring the Hunter Biden laptop story.

I don’t think they think they did anything wrong with that. Musk has been calling out people on that as well, which again seems to be against the agreement.

I have to wonder why he is doing this. It doesn’t look like a person acting in good faith.

In addition, nobody can really tell where the joke posts end and where serious claims begin.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Brainster

Probably not his future employee in that case. I don't know how she still has a job, after being responsible for censoring the Hunter Biden laptop story.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

There are nut jobs on Twitter. This isn’t news. But what exactly is your point? Should Musk refrain from saying anything critical because some nut jobs might say nasty things in response? That’s just a heckler’s veto, and why would we ever want to go down that road? Evaluate what he said on its own terms. Was he wrong? Was it actually the right thing to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story, even though it was true?

I guess we should look at the context of one of the examples Tim Pool brings up.

This is from Carl Benjamin (AKA: Sargon of Akkad)

Link

She explains that he used a number of racial and anti-semitic slurs directed specifically at particular posters and said he would throw someone out of a helicopter.

I guess it is left-wing bias to see that as bad because it was usually right-wingers in the dirty war that did that.

Tim also brings up Milo and asks why he was banned. She points out that he seemed to be engaged in targetted harassment of Leslie Jones (among others) including posting faked tweets of her saying racist things against white people. He apparently knew they were faked or "in context" ask "did some internet rascal make them?" suggesting he knew they were faked but didn't care.

Tim also brings up Alex Jones, and Gaddes points out the ways in which he appeared to harass and possibly incite violence. He had three strikes and was out.

So Milo, Alex Jones and Carl Benjamin are the poster boys for Tim Pool's complaints that Twitter are too left-leaning even though they are big profile provocateurs.

They weren't really banned for being right-wing unless being racist and harassing is a right-wing thing.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

There are nut jobs advocating violence against specific people and groups on Twitter. This isn’t news. But what exactly is your point? Should Musk refrain from saying anything critical because some nut jobs might say nasty things in response? That’s just a heckler’s veto, and why would we ever want to go down that road? Evaluate what he said on its own terms. Was he wrong? Was it actually the right thing to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story, even though it was true?

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

I put even odds on Musk backing out of buying Twitter: it would seriously endanger Tesla's relationship with China.

It's already endangering the share price...

[mumblethrax]

It’s looking increasingly like he’ll pull out. I hope he got a billion dollars worth of ego stroking out of it.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by mumblethrax

It’s looking increasingly like he’ll pull out. I hope he got a billion dollars worth of ego stroking out of it.

Did something change? I haven't been keeping up with the story all that much.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by plague311

Did something change? I haven't been keeping up with the story all that much.

Musk used his Tesla shareholding to attempt to raise a load (~US$12B IIRR). His antics have dropped said share price by around 12%, losing around US$120 billion in value.
Shareholders are unhappy. Lawyers and the SEC are watching.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by plague311

Did something change? I haven't been keeping up with the story all that much.

Reuters today: Investors fret over potential Musk U-turn in $44 bln Twitter buyout

Quote:

He has backtracked before. Earlier this month, he decided at the last minute not to take up a seat on Twitter's board. In 2018, Musk tweeted that there was "funding secured" for a $72 billion deal to take Tesla private, but did not move ahead with an offer. ...

Twitter shares ended trading in New York down 2.1% at $48.68, a big discount to the $54.20 deal price, implying a 62% chance of the deal being completed, according to Reuters calculations. That is a relatively low chance of deal completion, investors said,...

So speculation more than something specific.

Quote:

Roy Behren, co-president of Westchester Capital Management, which has $5.4 billion of assets under management, said the $1 billion deal termination fee was not high enough to make Musk think twice about walking away from the deal.

That answers my question about Musk losing 1 billion if he pulls out.

[mumblethrax]

Originally Posted by plague311

Did something change? I haven't been keeping up with the story all that much.

Tesla tanking, EU pointing out that Twitter will have to abide by EU regulations, lots of people pointing out that Apple and Google are effectively gatekeepers for Twitter, so he'll have to abide by their terms of service, too. If he can't do what he says he wants to do, it's unclear what he gets out of the deal. Maybe he thinks Twitter is undervalued, lol, lmao. And Twitter is down, suggesting that the market has lost some confidence that the deal will go through.

Seems like the smart bet that he'll pull out.

[TragicMonkey]

Yet another example of why money is best invested in boring index-linked mutual funds. Any stock mentioned in the news is trouble, what you want is something so calm and sensible it's totally unremarkable and thus never makes the news.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by catsmate

Musk used his Tesla shareholding to attempt to raise a load (~US$12B IIRR). His antics have dropped said share price by around 12%, losing around US$120 billion in value.
Shareholders are unhappy. Lawyers and the SEC are watching.

That's what I was thinking about

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by jimbob

That's what I was thinking about

Musk's had such problems before and hasn't learned.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by catsmate

Musk's had such problems before and hasn't learned.

Indeed, of all the non-Russian billionaires, he is the one I'd think is most likely to end up facing criminal charges related to his fortune.

[dudalb]

Not surprised.
Let's face it, Musk will do anything to get and stay in the news.
I hope this stunt opens the eyes of some of the Musk cultest

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Rule 12

who go nuclear if anybody dares to suggest that Musk is not the Savior of the World.

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Rule 12

Main motive of the Musk fanboys

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Rule 12

is they are proponents of Space Travel, and love Musk because of Space X and are willing to overlook eveything else. Sort of like one issue voters.
I am a big proponet of manned space travel myself ,and love what Musk had done with Space X, but I am not blind to his many, many, flaws like his cultist are.

[Warp12]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Not surprised.
Let's face it, Musk will do anything to get and stay in the news.
I hope this stunt opens the eyes of some of the Musk cultest

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Rule 12

who go nuclear if anybody dares to suggest that Musk is not the Savior of the World.

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Rule 12

Main motive of the Musk fanboys

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Rule 12

is they are proponents of Space Travel, and love Musk because of Space X and are willing to overlook eveything else. Sort of like one issue voters.
I am a big proponet of manned space travel myself ,and love what Musk had done with Space X, but I am not blind to his many, many, flaws like his cultist are.

Why so negative on Musk?

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Edit response to moderated content.

I mean, why did you feel a need to start a special thread with an opening premise that he isn't all that great?

We don't really know much about his intent: he just made a Twitter comment. He also stated that he is still committed to aquisition.

[Skeptic Ginger]

My post is in the other thread but 'I told you so'. I based it on his other unfulfilled whims and manipulation of prices by such involvement.

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by Warp12

Why so negative on Musk?

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Removed moderated content

I mean, why did you feel a need to start a special thread with an opening premise that he isn't all that great?

We don't really know much about his intent: he just made a Twitter comment. He also stated that he is still committed to aquisition.

you mean his accomplishment of hoovering up millions of government support for his schemes?

I bet he will withdraw from the Twitter deal.

[Captain_Swoop]

Elon Musk puts Twitter deal on hold over fake account details

Quote:

Elon Musk has said his $44bn (£35bn) deal to buy Twitter is on hold after he queried the number of fake or spam accounts on the social media platform.

He said he was waiting for information "supporting [the] calculation that spam/fake accounts do indeed represent less than 5% of users".

Mr Musk added later that he was "still committed to [the] acquisition".

However, analysts speculated he could be seeking to renegotiate the price or even walk away from the takeover.

Mr Musk's tweets sent Twitter's share price plunging 10% in morning trade in New York.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61433724

[The Great Zaganza]

Musk wanted to finance 50% of the deal by selling Tesla Stock, but this is causing the stock to tank, which in turn makes it necessary for him to sell even more.
It's very possible that he simply can't afford the deal.

Also, Twitter shareholders are suing him, making it probably that the deal will get delayed, at the very least.

[TragicMonkey]

I am tired of hearing of the antics of this puffy-faced clown. Why can't he just be satisfied with possessing immense wealth, and live quietly in insane luxury and comfort?

Yet another example of the wrong people having money.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Elon Musk puts Twitter deal on hold over fake account details



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61433724

I read your headline and my first thought was that it was something to do with this.

He is the non-Russian billionaire I'd most expect to get done for some criminal charges relating to his fortune.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

My post is in the other thread but 'I told you so'. I based it on his other unfulfilled whims and manipulation of prices by such involvement.

[angrysoba]

Yep! I am expecting something like this to happen….

Originally Posted by angrysoba

His antics almost make it look like he's trying to scupper the purchase but in a way that he can blame Twitter.

"The deal is off because you broke the rules"
"See? They hate free speech. They used a heckler's veto. Oh well... I tried guys, but the game is rigged. It's rigged I tells ya!"

I have seen some speculation that driving down the price of Tesla is part of the plan to buy back the stock he sold before.

Honestly I have no idea if that makes sense given his Twitter purchases. That said I stand by an earlier post I made that the problem with Elon Musk is that nobody can know the difference between when he is being serious and when he is just being a twat. Ultimately that is probably going to cost him.

[marting]

I'm also not surprised. Given the general, large drop in tech stocks it just looks like a reneg tactic. Had Musk never made an offer twitter would be lower like pretty much everything in tech. Check FB lately?

[Checkmite]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Edited by xjx388:

<SNIP> Removed response to moderated content.

Musk himself certainly has a thin skin. He has a track record of petty reaction and lashing out at detractors, and while I imagine he would at least make an attempt at governing Twitter objectively for a time, I do not think he would be able to resist eventually taking some kind of retaliatory action against someone who tweets the "wrong thing" while he's in a bad mood. And contriving a weak excuse for doing it, so as not to violate his "free speech absolutist" position.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Musk himself certainly has a thin skin. He has a track record of petty reaction and lashing out at detractors, and while I imagine he would at least make an attempt at governing Twitter objectively for a time, I do not think he would be able to resist eventually taking some kind of retaliatory action against someone who tweets the "wrong thing" while he's in a bad mood. And contriving a weak excuse for doing it, so as not to violate his "free speech absolutist" position.

The BBC World Service radio had a section on this when the news of the bid acceptance was raised.

The journalist had been talking to the CEO of one of the "Freeze peach" alternatives to Twitter - I *think* Gab, but it might have been Parler.

Even though the aim was free speech, the CEO spent most of his time dealing with moderation, because there is a *lot* of very unsavoury, illegal stuff out there that the platform would be responsible for if it wasn't removed. As well as possible defamation etc.

Then there is the brand reputation. Advertisers don't want to be associated with a binfire.

[kookbreaker]

Not too surprising, even before the drop of Tesla stock I was seeing multiple analysts saying this deal was a very poor value for Musk and he wasn’t likely to lose a lot of money on the deal. His influence over the social media would also not be as effective as he might want.

[The Great Zaganza]

It's pretty obvious what Musk is trying to do here: tank the Twitter price, buy it, do some cosmetic changes and sell it off again for double the price.

[Solitaire]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Musk wanted to finance 50% of the deal by selling Tesla Stock,
but this is causing the stock to tank, which in turn makes it necessary
for him to sell even more.

It's very possible that he simply can't afford the deal.

This completely.

Last year he sold 11 billion dollars in Tesla stock, about 10% of his holdings,
to pay his taxes. The stock fell from 1225 a share down to 750 a share six
months later. The deal with Twitter requires he raise 22 billion in cash by selling
more of his Tesla stock. In order to deal with these sales Tesla's stock price
must fall an additional 950 dollar a share. And keep in mind he will have to
pay capital gains taxes for those sales as well.

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Alex Jones just tweeted something along the lines of "Thanks, @elonmusk. I'm now back on Twitter."

[TurkeysGhost]

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

Alex Jones just tweeted something along the lines of "Thanks, @elonmusk. I'm now back on Twitter."

Did he? I don't see his account, or the old infowars account.

Jones wouldn't be the only banned or suspended right wing troll making such comments. I wonder how exactly they think this occurred, especially considering that Elon Musk does not actually have any control over Twitter at the moment. Even if you take his buy offer seriously, it'll be some time yet before it could be finalized.