[Merged] Musk buys Twitter!/ Elon Musk puts Twitter deal on hold.... - Page 9

Samson · 12th July 2022, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

What would be the point of being cash flush with billions, especially in times of high inflation?
It's not like it's possible to carry a billion around with you.

The largest bank note is $100, weighs a gram, so a million kilograms, or a thousand tonnes if I got that right.
Not easily portable.
ETA divide by 100 so 10 tonnes.

The Great Zaganza · 12th July 2022, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

The largest bank note is $100, weighs a gram, so a million kilograms, or a thousand tonnes if I got that right.
Not easily portable.
ETA divide by 100 so 10 tonnes.

that's why the 500 Euro note is the money launderer's favorite.
Does help much in this case.

Musk would have to go to the Federal Reserve directly if he wanted to 1 million printed 100 Dollar bills.

Samson · 12th July 2022, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

that's why the 500 Euro note is the money launderer's favorite.
Does help much in this case.

Musk would have to go to the Federal Reserve directly if he wanted to 1 million printed 100 Dollar bills.

A lazy 10 million needed.
A decent payload for Spacex

Dr. Keith · 13th July 2022, 09:59 AM

Wouldn’t it be easier to put it all into crypto and send it to mars on a thumb drive?

And by the time it gets there, the thumb drive would still be worth something.

Gord_in_Toronto · 13th July 2022, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

Wouldn’t it be easier to put it all into crypto and send it to mars on a thumb drive?

And by the time it gets there, the thumb drive would still be worth something.

Only if it had been wrapped in a few kilos of lead to exclude radiation.

dudalb · 13th July 2022, 01:34 PM

One good thing about this fiasco: It has opened a great many people's eyes about Musk;that he is not the infallible genius his cultist claims him to be.
Oh, he still has some hard core cult members, but they are not as many as they once were.
I notice that on other forums the number of denunciatory posts you once got by daring to criticise Musk is a lot fewer then they used to be.

dudalb · 14th July 2022, 03:59 PM

Just read the story about Musk's father having a kid with his own stepdauther.
Call me old fashioned, but I find that pretty deplorable, to put it mildly.

TragicMonkey · 14th July 2022, 04:20 PM

Mommy, I do not like the puffy-faced money clown. Can he go away soon?

Checkmite · 14th July 2022, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Just read the story about Musk's father having a kid with his own stepdauther.

*having another kid

Warp12 · 14th July 2022, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Just read the story about Musk's father having a kid with his own stepdauther.
Call me old fashioned, but I find that pretty deplorable, to put it mildly.

When that family tells old stories around the campfire, talk about some real doozies, I bet!

jeremyp · 15th July 2022, 03:52 AM

For those who are interested, Ars Technica have a copy of Twitter's lawsuit.

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conte...ainst-musk.pdf

It's definitely worth a read. It's pretty well written and, viewed as a character assassination of Musk, it's a work of art.

jimbob · 15th July 2022, 08:06 AM

From Twitter

tyr_13 · 15th July 2022, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

For those who are interested, Ars Technica have a copy of Twitter's lawsuit.

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conte...ainst-musk.pdf

It's definitely worth a read. It's pretty well written and, viewed as a character assassination of Musk, it's a work of art.

Lmao! Wow! Oh wow. Ignore the character stuff and even the obvious violations of the non-disparigment clause. Musk's grade S hubris is fully realized in the other clauses he allowed in that agreement. I'm on my phone right now so I'm not going to pick out the sundry provisions individually, but hot damn Twitter's lawyers did some mighty fine work there, and overnight iirc.

I feel bad for whoever Musk had negotiating that EXPLICITLY 'seller friendly' deal because there is near zero chance any transaction lawyer was ok with it, but the E-loon likely insisted.

I Am The Scum · 15th July 2022, 11:12 AM

The Opening Arguments podcast (hosted by a real-life lawyer) has been critical of Musk in this entire affair. The simple criticism was something like, "I wouldn't let my client buy a McDonald's franchise under these terms." They have promised a deep dive into Twitter's lawsuit in their upcoming Tuesday episode. They maintain that forcing Musk to complete the purchase is almost certainly not going to happen.

plague311 · 15th July 2022, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

The Opening Arguments podcast (hosted by a real-life lawyer) has been critical of Musk in this entire affair. The simple criticism was something like, "I wouldn't let my client buy a McDonald's franchise under these terms." They have promised a deep dive into Twitter's lawsuit in their upcoming Tuesday episode. They maintain that forcing Musk to complete the purchase is almost certainly not going to happen.

That's probably true, but I'd bet they get some compensation for their time and troubles.

jeremyp · 16th July 2022, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

The Opening Arguments podcast (hosted by a real-life lawyer) has been critical of Musk in this entire affair. The simple criticism was something like, "I wouldn't let my client buy a McDonald's franchise under these terms." They have promised a deep dive into Twitter's lawsuit in their upcoming Tuesday episode. They maintain that forcing Musk to complete the purchase is almost certainly not going to happen.

It has happened before. The court's chief judge Kathaleen McCormick forced Kohlberg & Co LLC to close its $550 million purchase of DecoPac Holding Inc. Musk should be ok though, as long as she doesn't get assigned to the case...

... oh

https://www.reuters.com/legal/transa...se-2022-07-15/

llwyd · 16th July 2022, 02:37 AM

The consolation here is that also Twitter can easily pay an army of top lawyers. Bit different if you are some scuba diving company owner that is casually implied of being a pedophile by a billionaire superstar on social media. I still can't get over that decision.

angrysoba · 16th July 2022, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Just read the story about Musk's father having a kid with his own stepdauther.
Call me old fashioned, but I find that pretty deplorable, to put it mildly.

"Happy Father's Day! Or as we call it in our family, Happy Brother-in-Law's Day!"

(Dylan Farrow in a different, but similar situation)

tyr_13 · 16th July 2022, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

The Opening Arguments podcast (hosted by a real-life lawyer) has been critical of Musk in this entire affair. The simple criticism was something like, "I wouldn't let my client buy a McDonald's franchise under these terms." They have promised a deep dive into Twitter's lawsuit in their upcoming Tuesday episode. They maintain that forcing Musk to complete the purchase is almost certainly not going to happen.

I was going to type out a few things that are especially cringeworthy moves on the side of Musk, and how they are addressed by the provisions Twitter's lawyers got inserted, but thankfully in looking up a provision I came across an Above the Law article that already has every point and then more. Being written by actual lawyers helps that (where my experience was in learning parts of the law and contract when I was given the job of running tariff exemptions for materials at my last job, on top of the work I did for the lab and my main job of Quality/Compliance with Standards).

The big takeaway I want to stress is that Musk is on the hook for between $1B and $44B. While he's less likely to be made to actually purchase (courts tend to encourage settlements that don't force angry groups to join together) and therefore not being made to give up the full $44B, it's even more unlikely that all he has to do is pay the $1B mutually agreed on 'deal collapse' fee. Most likely is Musk is made to pay Twitter a good deal to make them whole. If we had an actually fair regulatory scheme in the US, he'd be on the hook for huge fines and even more restrictions on his stock crimes.

Originally Posted by jeremyp

It has happened before. The court's chief judge Kathaleen McCormick forced Kohlberg & Co LLC to close its $550 million purchase of DecoPac Holding Inc. Musk should be ok though, as long as she doesn't get assigned to the case...

... oh

https://www.reuters.com/legal/transa...se-2022-07-15/

This along with Musk being a gelatinous discharge brained egomaniac does make it possible that the acquisition is fully compelled. Further it means that this isn't likely to be drawn out for years either.

If the acquisition is forced through and Musk has to dump a lot of Tesla stock that could either collapse that company, or ironically if he has to dump enough shares others could gain enough control to put the company on a better long-term footing. There is a lot of rot in Tesla, but if enough of the stock buyers can be fooled for long enough to address some of it, Tesla might actually turn around to doing better than it would have under Musk. After all, the stock is still hugely over-valued from every rational metric, Musk has already fooled shareholders, so it isn't impossible that enough stay fooled to keep the company afloat. (Yes, the value of a stock is more controlled by the perception of it's worth than by any actual work a given company does and so some or even most shareholders might not be truly 'fooled', but you all get the idea.)

jeremyp · 17th July 2022, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

If the acquisition is forced through and Musk has to dump a lot of Tesla stock that could either collapse that company, or ironically if he has to dump enough shares others could gain enough control to put the company on a better long-term footing. There is a lot of rot in Tesla, but if enough of the stock buyers can be fooled for long enough to address some of it, Tesla might actually turn around to doing better than it would have under Musk. After all, the stock is still hugely over-valued from every rational metric, Musk has already fooled shareholders, so it isn't impossible that enough stay fooled to keep the company afloat. (Yes, the value of a stock is more controlled by the perception of it's worth than by any actual work a given company does and so some or even most shareholders might not be truly 'fooled', but you all get the idea.)

It's my opinion that Musk doesn't have $44 billion with which to buy Twitter. Even with the deal he signed, a fair amount of the money was coming from third parties in the form of loans, some of which were collateralised on Musk's Tesla shares. If I ran one of the banks providing those loans, I'd note that the price of Tesla has fallen significantly and therefore the collateral needs to be more shares and also that (according to Twitter's complaint) Elon Musk is an utter child who should not be trusted with to run a lemonade stall, never mind a multi billion dollar corporation.

If Musk doesn't have the $44 billion, he cannot be forced to buy the company. Can the court force him to sell assets to meet the purchase price? I don't know, but I think you are correct: it's more likely he'll negotiate a settlement with Twitter.

If he does that, that opens another question. If he settles for - say - $20 billion, where does that leave Twitter's shareholders? If Musk had bought Twitter, the $44 billion would be in the pockets of the shareholders. If he settles, the $20 billion would be in the hands of Twitter. I think I'd be a bit pissed off by that, if I was a shareholder. I might even sue.

Dr. Keith · 17th July 2022, 09:00 PM

Any settlement would be couched in terms of making the shareholders “whole”. So, costs of the M&A work and dispute would be step one. Step two would be to pick the stock price that best represents the loss to the share holder. He offers $54/share and it is now at $38/share. I could see a settlement in the range $10-16/share. It could be reinvested by the company to increase shareholder value or they could pay a one time dividend.

I think Elon owns around 9% of the shares.

jeremyp · 19th July 2022, 04:34 AM

Musk makes his next move:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...yze-spam-data/

I think the idea is to move the trial far enough out that his funding agreements expire and he can escape by paying a mere $1 billion.

Donal · 19th July 2022, 08:34 AM

Ya, courts love when you try and use them for delaying tactics. That will work out really well for him.

wareyin · 19th July 2022, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Donal

Ya, courts love when you try and use them for delaying tactics. That will work out really well for him.

Meh, the courts kinda give a whole lot more leeway to rich people.

angrysoba · 19th July 2022, 11:53 AM

Doesn’t sound like it is going well for Musk….

https://twitter.com/mmasnick/status/...692178432?s=21

dudalb · 1st August 2022, 05:12 PM

Musk making noises about buying Disney. He has totally lost his marbles if he thinks he can pull that off.
FOr one thing, companies are sucessful as Disney has been are not good targers for hostile takeovers..which this would be.

Babbylonian · 1st August 2022, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Musk making noises about buying Disney. He has totally lost his marbles if he thinks he can pull that off.
FOr one thing, companies are sucessful as Disney has been are not good targers for hostile takeovers..which this would be.

He's probably trying to set up some ludicrous argument like "Hey, I talk about buying companies all the time. Should I now be forced to buy Disney?"

jeremyp · 1st August 2022, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Musk making noises about buying Disney. He has totally lost his marbles if he thinks he can pull that off.
FOr one thing, companies are sucessful as Disney has been are not good targers for hostile takeovers..which this would be.

My Google foo has deserted me. I can’t find any reference to Musk saying he wants to buy Disney, only speculation based on the fact that he has started disparaging them on Twitter.

It is possible he is trying to drive down the stock price so he can buy some shares, but Disney’s market cap is more than four times that of Twitter so things have got to get pretty bad before he could consider buying them.

Donal · 2nd August 2022, 11:52 AM

Also, I am pretty sure Disney can have him legally murdered in the state of Florida.

Fast Eddie B · 2nd August 2022, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Also, I am pretty sure Disney can have him legally murdered in the state of Florida.

Only if he “demonstrates” in traffic!

ZirconBlue · 2nd August 2022, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Also, I am pretty sure Disney can have him legally murdered in the state of Florida.

Cinderella's Castle Doctrine?

kookbreaker · 2nd August 2022, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Also, I am pretty sure Disney can have him legally murdered in the state of Florida.

Meh, not after Desantis efforts to punish them.

Puppycow · 6th August 2022, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

My Google foo has deserted me. I can’t find any reference to Musk saying he wants to buy Disney, only speculation based on the fact that he has started disparaging them on Twitter.

I see only idle speculation, nothing from Musk himself. They are reading waaay too much into a few tweets.

Also, Disney is a $200 billion company, or has been recently, although with share price fluctuations it varies somewhat.

Checkmite · 8th August 2022, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I see only idle speculation, nothing from Musk himself. They are reading waaay too much into a few tweets.

Wasn't the first foreshadow of Musk's eventual bid to buy Twitter simply him liking a speculative post by a fan saying he should do that?

Musk is impossible to read. Things that initially look like jokes, lead to serious actions. Things that initially seem to be serious, go nowhere. It's not that he is operating on some higher inscrutable level; it's because he is impulsive, has a skin rivaled in its thinness only by Donald Trump's, and loves to perform theatrics for his personality cult. He is a walking meme and, like the success of memes, utterly arbitrary.

jeremyp · 9th August 2022, 04:53 AM

And now Musk has challenged the CEO of Twitter to a debate. As the subtitle of the linked article says, Twitter has accepted, and it will take place in the Delaware Chancery Court between their respective lawyers. And it won't be about the number of bots.

Puppycow · 9th August 2022, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

And now Musk has challenged the CEO of Twitter to a debate. As the subtitle of the linked article says, Twitter has accepted, and it will take place in the Delaware Chancery Court between their respective lawyers. And it won't be about the number of bots.

Quote:

"I hereby challenge @paraga to a public debate about the Twitter bot percentage," Musk wrote in a tweet on Saturday. "Let him prove to the public that Twitter has <5% fake or spam daily users!"

As a member of the public, I don't care a fig about what percentage of twitter users are fake bots. The only person who cares is Musk himself.

Ziggurat · 9th August 2022, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

As a member of the public, I don't care a fig about what percentage of twitter users are fake bots. The only person who cares is Musk himself.

Advertisers care too. Which impacts shareholders as well.

Steve · 9th August 2022, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

As a member of the public, I don't care a fig about what percentage of twitter users are fake bots. The only person who cares is Musk himself.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Advertisers care too. Which impacts shareholders as well.

As a member of the public who has never used twitter I don't care a fig about what percentage of twitter users are fake bots, or twitter advertisers, or twitter shareholders, or twitter users themselves. Or Musk for that matter. The whole shebang could disappear from the face of the earth tomorrow and I would not notice.

But there is a modicum of comic value in some of the shenanigans being discussed here.

I Am The Scum · 9th August 2022, 07:39 PM

I can't find the video now, but earlier this week, Musk said during a broadcast that "everyone who uses twitter knows how many bots there are" (paraphrasing). This would be really bad for his case, as he now cannot claim that he had been misled by the information Twitter gave to him.

Checkmite · 9th August 2022, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

And now Musk has challenged the CEO of Twitter to a debate. As the subtitle of the linked article says, Twitter has accepted, and it will take place in the Delaware Chancery Court between their respective lawyers. And it won't be about the number of bots.

QED of that "theatrics for his personality cult" thing I mentioned. His fans tend to be the "debate-me-bro" type.

12th July 2022, 07:44 PM	#321
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,734	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza What would be the point of being cash flush with billions, especially in times of high inflation? It's not like it's possible to carry a billion around with you. The largest bank note is $100, weighs a gram, so a million kilograms, or a thousand tonnes if I got that right. Not easily portable. ETA divide by 100 so 10 tonnes.
	Last edited by Samson; 12th July 2022 at 07:47 PM.

12th July 2022, 09:15 PM	#322
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,893	Originally Posted by Samson The largest bank note is $100, weighs a gram, so a million kilograms, or a thousand tonnes if I got that right. Not easily portable. ETA divide by 100 so 10 tonnes. that's why the 500 Euro note is the money launderer's favorite. Does help much in this case. Musk would have to go to the Federal Reserve directly if he wanted to 1 million printed 100 Dollar bills.
	__________________ “Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 12th July 2022 at 09:16 PM.

13th July 2022, 09:59 AM	#324
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 25,592	Wouldn’t it be easier to put it all into crypto and send it to mars on a thumb drive? And by the time it gets there, the thumb drive would still be worth something.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

13th July 2022, 10:17 AM	#325
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 23,697	Originally Posted by Dr. Keith Wouldn’t it be easier to put it all into crypto and send it to mars on a thumb drive? And by the time it gets there, the thumb drive would still be worth something. Only if it had been wrapped in a few kilos of lead to exclude radiation.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

13th July 2022, 01:34 PM	#326
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	One good thing about this fiasco: It has opened a great many people's eyes about Musk;that he is not the infallible genius his cultist claims him to be. Oh, he still has some hard core cult members, but they are not as many as they once were. I notice that on other forums the number of denunciatory posts you once got by daring to criticise Musk is a lot fewer then they used to be.
	Last edited by dudalb; 13th July 2022 at 01:35 PM.

12th July 2022, 10:48 PM	#323
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,734	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza that's why the 500 Euro note is the money launderer's favorite. Does help much in this case. Musk would have to go to the Federal Reserve directly if he wanted to 1 million printed 100 Dollar bills. A lazy 10 million needed. A decent payload for Spacex

14th July 2022, 03:59 PM	#327
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Just read the story about Musk's father having a kid with his own stepdauther. Call me old fashioned, but I find that pretty deplorable, to put it mildly.

14th July 2022, 04:20 PM	#328
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 66,035	Mommy, I do not like the puffy-faced money clown. Can he go away soon?
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

14th July 2022, 08:00 PM	#329
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,236	Originally Posted by dudalb Just read the story about Musk's father having a kid with his own stepdauther. *having another kid
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

14th July 2022, 10:27 PM	#330
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by dudalb Just read the story about Musk's father having a kid with his own stepdauther. Call me old fashioned, but I find that pretty deplorable, to put it mildly. When that family tells old stories around the campfire, talk about some real doozies, I bet!

15th July 2022, 03:52 AM	#331
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	For those who are interested, Ars Technica have a copy of Twitter's lawsuit. https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conte...ainst-musk.pdf It's definitely worth a read. It's pretty well written and, viewed as a character assassination of Musk, it's a work of art.

15th July 2022, 08:06 AM	#332
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 30,066	From Twitter
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK Last edited by jimbob; 15th July 2022 at 02:27 PM.

15th July 2022, 11:03 AM	#333
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 17,629	Originally Posted by jeremyp For those who are interested, Ars Technica have a copy of Twitter's lawsuit. https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conte...ainst-musk.pdf It's definitely worth a read. It's pretty well written and, viewed as a character assassination of Musk, it's a work of art. Lmao! Wow! Oh wow. Ignore the character stuff and even the obvious violations of the non-disparigment clause. Musk's grade S hubris is fully realized in the other clauses he allowed in that agreement. I'm on my phone right now so I'm not going to pick out the sundry provisions individually, but hot damn Twitter's lawyers did some mighty fine work there, and overnight iirc. I feel bad for whoever Musk had negotiating that EXPLICITLY 'seller friendly' deal because there is near zero chance any transaction lawyer was ok with it, but the E-loon likely insisted.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

15th July 2022, 11:12 AM	#334
I Am The Scum Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,023	The Opening Arguments podcast (hosted by a real-life lawyer) has been critical of Musk in this entire affair. The simple criticism was something like, "I wouldn't let my client buy a McDonald's franchise under these terms." They have promised a deep dive into Twitter's lawsuit in their upcoming Tuesday episode. They maintain that forcing Musk to complete the purchase is almost certainly not going to happen.

15th July 2022, 11:21 AM	#335
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 13,790	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum The Opening Arguments podcast (hosted by a real-life lawyer) has been critical of Musk in this entire affair. The simple criticism was something like, "I wouldn't let my client buy a McDonald's franchise under these terms." They have promised a deep dive into Twitter's lawsuit in their upcoming Tuesday episode. They maintain that forcing Musk to complete the purchase is almost certainly not going to happen. That's probably true, but I'd bet they get some compensation for their time and troubles.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

16th July 2022, 01:28 AM	#336
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum The Opening Arguments podcast (hosted by a real-life lawyer) has been critical of Musk in this entire affair. The simple criticism was something like, "I wouldn't let my client buy a McDonald's franchise under these terms." They have promised a deep dive into Twitter's lawsuit in their upcoming Tuesday episode. They maintain that forcing Musk to complete the purchase is almost certainly not going to happen. It has happened before. The court's chief judge Kathaleen McCormick forced Kohlberg & Co LLC to close its $550 million purchase of DecoPac Holding Inc. Musk should be ok though, as long as she doesn't get assigned to the case... ... oh https://www.reuters.com/legal/transa...se-2022-07-15/

16th July 2022, 02:37 AM	#337
llwyd Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Helsinki Posts: 1,133	The consolation here is that also Twitter can easily pay an army of top lawyers. Bit different if you are some scuba diving company owner that is casually implied of being a pedophile by a billionaire superstar on social media. I still can't get over that decision.

16th July 2022, 03:04 AM	#338
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 34,399	Originally Posted by dudalb Just read the story about Musk's father having a kid with his own stepdauther. Call me old fashioned, but I find that pretty deplorable, to put it mildly. "Happy Father's Day! Or as we call it in our family, Happy Brother-in-Law's Day!" (Dylan Farrow in a different, but similar situation)
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

16th July 2022, 08:36 AM	#339
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 17,629	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum The Opening Arguments podcast (hosted by a real-life lawyer) has been critical of Musk in this entire affair. The simple criticism was something like, "I wouldn't let my client buy a McDonald's franchise under these terms." They have promised a deep dive into Twitter's lawsuit in their upcoming Tuesday episode. They maintain that forcing Musk to complete the purchase is almost certainly not going to happen. I was going to type out a few things that are especially cringeworthy moves on the side of Musk, and how they are addressed by the provisions Twitter's lawyers got inserted, but thankfully in looking up a provision I came across an Above the Law article that already has every point and then more. Being written by actual lawyers helps that (where my experience was in learning parts of the law and contract when I was given the job of running tariff exemptions for materials at my last job, on top of the work I did for the lab and my main job of Quality/Compliance with Standards). The big takeaway I want to stress is that Musk is on the hook for between $1B and $44B. While he's less likely to be made to actually purchase (courts tend to encourage settlements that don't force angry groups to join together) and therefore not being made to give up the full $44B, it's even more unlikely that all he has to do is pay the $1B mutually agreed on 'deal collapse' fee. Most likely is Musk is made to pay Twitter a good deal to make them whole. If we had an actually fair regulatory scheme in the US, he'd be on the hook for huge fines and even more restrictions on his stock crimes. Originally Posted by jeremyp It has happened before. The court's chief judge Kathaleen McCormick forced Kohlberg & Co LLC to close its $550 million purchase of DecoPac Holding Inc. Musk should be ok though, as long as she doesn't get assigned to the case... ... oh https://www.reuters.com/legal/transa...se-2022-07-15/ This along with Musk being a gelatinous discharge brained egomaniac does make it possible that the acquisition is fully compelled. Further it means that this isn't likely to be drawn out for years either. If the acquisition is forced through and Musk has to dump a lot of Tesla stock that could either collapse that company, or ironically if he has to dump enough shares others could gain enough control to put the company on a better long-term footing. There is a lot of rot in Tesla, but if enough of the stock buyers can be fooled for long enough to address some of it, Tesla might actually turn around to doing better than it would have under Musk. After all, the stock is still hugely over-valued from every rational metric, Musk has already fooled shareholders, so it isn't impossible that enough stay fooled to keep the company afloat. (Yes, the value of a stock is more controlled by the perception of it's worth than by any actual work a given company does and so some or even most shareholders might not be truly 'fooled', but you all get the idea.)
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17th July 2022, 06:12 AM	#340
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	Originally Posted by tyr_13 If the acquisition is forced through and Musk has to dump a lot of Tesla stock that could either collapse that company, or ironically if he has to dump enough shares others could gain enough control to put the company on a better long-term footing. There is a lot of rot in Tesla, but if enough of the stock buyers can be fooled for long enough to address some of it, Tesla might actually turn around to doing better than it would have under Musk. After all, the stock is still hugely over-valued from every rational metric, Musk has already fooled shareholders, so it isn't impossible that enough stay fooled to keep the company afloat. (Yes, the value of a stock is more controlled by the perception of it's worth than by any actual work a given company does and so some or even most shareholders might not be truly 'fooled', but you all get the idea.) It's my opinion that Musk doesn't have $44 billion with which to buy Twitter. Even with the deal he signed, a fair amount of the money was coming from third parties in the form of loans, some of which were collateralised on Musk's Tesla shares. If I ran one of the banks providing those loans, I'd note that the price of Tesla has fallen significantly and therefore the collateral needs to be more shares and also that (according to Twitter's complaint) Elon Musk is an utter child who should not be trusted with to run a lemonade stall, never mind a multi billion dollar corporation. If Musk doesn't have the $44 billion, he cannot be forced to buy the company. Can the court force him to sell assets to meet the purchase price? I don't know, but I think you are correct: it's more likely he'll negotiate a settlement with Twitter. If he does that, that opens another question. If he settles for - say - $20 billion, where does that leave Twitter's shareholders? If Musk had bought Twitter, the $44 billion would be in the pockets of the shareholders. If he settles, the $20 billion would be in the hands of Twitter. I think I'd be a bit pissed off by that, if I was a shareholder. I might even sue.

17th July 2022, 09:00 PM	#341
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 25,592	Any settlement would be couched in terms of making the shareholders “whole”. So, costs of the M&A work and dispute would be step one. Step two would be to pick the stock price that best represents the loss to the share holder. He offers $54/share and it is now at $38/share. I could see a settlement in the range $10-16/share. It could be reinvested by the company to increase shareholder value or they could pay a one time dividend. I think Elon owns around 9% of the shares.
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19th July 2022, 04:34 AM	#342
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	Musk makes his next move: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...yze-spam-data/ I think the idea is to move the trial far enough out that his funding agreements expire and he can escape by paying a mere $1 billion.

19th July 2022, 08:34 AM	#343
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,628	Ya, courts love when you try and use them for delaying tactics. That will work out really well for him.
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19th July 2022, 09:16 AM	#344
wareyin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 11,828	Originally Posted by Donal Ya, courts love when you try and use them for delaying tactics. That will work out really well for him. Meh, the courts kinda give a whole lot more leeway to rich people.

19th July 2022, 11:53 AM	#345
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 34,399	Doesn’t sound like it is going well for Musk…. https://twitter.com/mmasnick/status/...692178432?s=21
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1st August 2022, 05:12 PM	#346
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Musk making noises about buying Disney. He has totally lost his marbles if he thinks he can pull that off. FOr one thing, companies are sucessful as Disney has been are not good targers for hostile takeovers..which this would be.

1st August 2022, 07:57 PM	#347
Babbylonian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,996	Originally Posted by dudalb Musk making noises about buying Disney. He has totally lost his marbles if he thinks he can pull that off. FOr one thing, companies are sucessful as Disney has been are not good targers for hostile takeovers..which this would be. He's probably trying to set up some ludicrous argument like "Hey, I talk about buying companies all the time. Should I now be forced to buy Disney?"

1st August 2022, 11:30 PM	#348
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	Originally Posted by dudalb Musk making noises about buying Disney. He has totally lost his marbles if he thinks he can pull that off. FOr one thing, companies are sucessful as Disney has been are not good targers for hostile takeovers..which this would be. My Google foo has deserted me. I can’t find any reference to Musk saying he wants to buy Disney, only speculation based on the fact that he has started disparaging them on Twitter. It is possible he is trying to drive down the stock price so he can buy some shares, but Disney’s market cap is more than four times that of Twitter so things have got to get pretty bad before he could consider buying them.

2nd August 2022, 11:52 AM	#349
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,628	Also, I am pretty sure Disney can have him legally murdered in the state of Florida.
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2nd August 2022, 12:47 PM	#350
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 7,559	Originally Posted by Donal Also, I am pretty sure Disney can have him legally murdered in the state of Florida. Only if he “demonstrates” in traffic!

2nd August 2022, 01:44 PM	#351
ZirconBlue Sole Survivor of L-Town Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lexington, KY, USA, Earth Posts: 14,812	Originally Posted by Donal Also, I am pretty sure Disney can have him legally murdered in the state of Florida. Cinderella's Castle Doctrine?
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2nd August 2022, 08:24 PM	#352
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,540	Originally Posted by Donal Also, I am pretty sure Disney can have him legally murdered in the state of Florida. Meh, not after Desantis efforts to punish them.
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6th August 2022, 05:20 PM	#353
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 27,963	Originally Posted by jeremyp My Google foo has deserted me. I can’t find any reference to Musk saying he wants to buy Disney, only speculation based on the fact that he has started disparaging them on Twitter. I see only idle speculation, nothing from Musk himself. They are reading waaay too much into a few tweets. Also, Disney is a $200 billion company, or has been recently, although with share price fluctuations it varies somewhat.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

8th August 2022, 01:33 AM	#354
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,236	Originally Posted by Puppycow I see only idle speculation, nothing from Musk himself. They are reading waaay too much into a few tweets. Wasn't the first foreshadow of Musk's eventual bid to buy Twitter simply him liking a speculative post by a fan saying he should do that? Musk is impossible to read. Things that initially look like jokes, lead to serious actions. Things that initially seem to be serious, go nowhere. It's not that he is operating on some higher inscrutable level; it's because he is impulsive, has a skin rivaled in its thinness only by Donald Trump's, and loves to perform theatrics for his personality cult. He is a walking meme and, like the success of memes, utterly arbitrary.
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9th August 2022, 04:53 AM	#355
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	And now Musk has challenged the CEO of Twitter to a debate. As the subtitle of the linked article says, Twitter has accepted, and it will take place in the Delaware Chancery Court between their respective lawyers. And it won't be about the number of bots.