The DeSantis gambit - Page 2

JoeMorgue · 14th November 2022, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by sackett

●JoeMorgue! You're starting to scare me! You say DeSnazi has some little charisma?

It's hard to put into words exactly, he just doesn't give off that "I'm literally a joke and if you have enough neurons to rub together to make a synapse not only will not take me seriously you will not be able to comprehend how any one could" quality that Trump has.

Now to be fair this could work against him. By the same token he doesn't have the "Flaming bag of dog poop to put on the Liberals doorstep, hate me or love me you will not ignore me" quality Trump did.

Trump very much started off as a "Are you listening to me know?" brick thrown through our windows by rural America. DeSantis can't start from that position as easily.

ZiprHead · 14th November 2022, 10:24 AM

Remember I said Trump worship was a cult of personality?

I became a Republican because of President Trump. When he leaves, I become an independent.

Trebuchet · 14th November 2022, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by ZiprHead

Remember I said Trump worship was a cult of personality?

I became a Republican because of President Trump. When he leaves, I become an independent.

Loving his bio:

Quote:

Fair Minded @foxnews Contributor, Podcast Host, Civil Rights Attorney, Author, Fmr School Teacher. Leo 2.0 on

And he's Black. The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

Donal · 14th November 2022, 02:37 PM

to be fair, he doesn't say which sides of civil rights cases he argues.

Craig4 · 26th February 2023, 07:28 AM

Can the Dems please demonstrate they've learned the lesson about Trump and start the character assassination of DeSantis now? Twitter and Facebook should be full of DeSantis as Hitler memes now. The guy is a Nazi so the attack posts practically write themselves.

sackett · 26th February 2023, 02:01 PM

Some might say Trumpt is DeSnottis Lite, some might say tother way round. I'd call DeSnottoid a sort of streamlined Trumpf. But it's not significant which is what, they both operate on the principal of making hateful sonsofbitches feel good about themselves. Power to the Prix!

Skeptic Ginger · 26th February 2023, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Can the Dems please demonstrate they've learned the lesson about Trump and start the character assassination of DeSantis now? Twitter and Facebook should be full of DeSantis as Hitler memes now. The guy is a Nazi so the attack posts practically write themselves.

He's playing far to the alt-right to beat out Trump in the primary. That is not an intelligent strategy at all. Maybe he doesn't have Trump's warped brain but I don't see him building up a cult following to any dangerous degree. I don't believe the majority of voters are white Christian nationalists pleased with all the nonsensical book and education banning going on in FL.

Seriously, is that playing well outside of his small circle of friends? People didn't elect Trump because he had policies they liked. They elected him because he spouted the BS they wanted to hear about Mexicans and Muslims and claimed to be a great businessman. That bubble has popped.

Norman Alexander · 26th February 2023, 09:32 PM

DeSantis is probably going to find serious blowback from some of his silly political decisions. Only the raving fascists, cross-eyed christian nationalists (same??), and the gun-waving rightist Cubans actually support him. It appears the rest of Florida either could not be bothered with his nonsense because it doesn't affect them, or actively oppose him. I mean... How many doddery old retirees on their last legs in the sun are going to care if CRT is taught in pre-school or not? The only "woke" they care about is being "woke" for brunch cocktails.

gabeygoat · 26th February 2023, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

He's playing far to the alt-right to beat out Trump in the primary. That is not an intelligent strategy at all. Maybe he doesn't have Trump's warped brain but I don't see him building up a cult following to any dangerous degree. I don't believe the majority of voters are white Christian nationalists pleased with all the nonsensical book and education banning going on in FL.

Seriously, is that playing well outside of his small circle of friends? People didn't elect Trump because he had policies they liked. They elected him because he spouted the BS they wanted to hear about Mexicans and Muslims and claimed to be a great businessman. That bubble has popped.

I agree with most of this, but Desantis' small circle of friends happens to be Florida

gabeygoat · 26th February 2023, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

DeSantis is probably going to find serious blowback from some of his silly political decisions. Only the raving fascists, cross-eyed christian nationalists (same??), and the gun-waving rightist Cubans actually support him. It appears the rest of Florida either could not be bothered with his nonsense because it doesn't affect them, or actively oppose him. I mean... How many doddery old retirees on their last legs in the sun are going to care if CRT is taught in pre-school or not? The only "woke" they care about is being "woke" for brunch cocktails.

he won 59.4% of that wang of a state

Norman Alexander · 26th February 2023, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

he won 59.4% of that wang of a state

I always take US voting results with a beaker of salt. Voluntary voting means not all voters vote. Those that don't are either too old, don't care, or they have been gerrymandered. When only the fascists can vote, they vote for fascists.

Skeptic Ginger · 26th February 2023, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

I agree with most of this, but Desantis' small circle of friends happens to be Florida

Part of FL and part of TX, there are 48 other states.

DeSantis and the lot of them are all competing for Trump's dwindling base. 2020 and 2022 showed us that base is not the voice of America. It's the GOP's fault their party is so screwed up that to get elected to their primary you sabotage your viability in the General.

gabeygoat · 26th February 2023, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I always take US voting results with a beaker of salt. Voluntary voting means not all voters vote. Those that don't are either too old, don't care, or they have been gerrymandered. When only the fascists can vote, they vote for fascists.

sad, but true.

gabeygoat · 26th February 2023, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Part of FL and part of TX, there are 48 other states.

DeSantis and the lot of them are all competing for Trump's dwindling base. 2020 and 2022 showed us that base is not the voice of America. It's the GOP's fault their party is so screwed up that to get elected to their primary you sabotage your viability in the General.

totally, their base is shrinking from an already small start. but, Florida and Texas are a **** ton of EC votes. turnout is probably more important than candidate:see Georgia.

The Great Zaganza · 26th February 2023, 11:17 PM

The GOPs problem is that DeSantis is the more boring version of Trump: an insider instead of a wildcard, an operative instead of a renegade.
Trump could rally the anti- establishment Vote in a way DeSantis never will.

The best way to character-assasinate DeSantis is to highlight his connections to the RNC and McConnell.

gnome · 27th February 2023, 06:51 AM

I don't know if it's been said here, but I think of DeSantis less as Trump 2.0 and more like Santorum 2.0.

Fidelio · 27th February 2023, 10:31 AM

"Santorum"
A sadly neglected term sorely in need these days.

Segnosaur · 27th February 2023, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

The GOPs problem is that DeSantis is the more boring version of Trump: an insider instead of a wildcard, an operative instead of a renegade.
Trump could rally the anti- establishment Vote in a way DeSantis never will.

Another problem for Ron DeathSantis...

His far-right credentials are open for anyone to see.

Usually, being a "moderate" gives a candidate an advantage in an election. (The most moderate candidate won't ALWAYS win, and there are exceptions. But it does give a statistical advantage.) And in the 2016 election one of the reasons Trump was able to win was he was actually able to appear more 'moderate' than Clinton. Yes, it may seem surprising in hindsight, but in 2016 Trump had no real political track record, and his promises were vague enough that people could read in almost any position. (He promised "cheap health care for everyone", held up a rainbow flag at a political rally, didn't touch the possibility of eliminating social security, etc.) And Clinton had been successfully portrayed as a "left winger" (or at least someone under their control).

But Meatball Ron has been in power in Florida for more than a term. We've seen "book bannings", attacks on LGBTQ rights, and people carrying swastika flags where he was giving speeches. With that type of background it is going to be hard if not impossible to appeal to moderates in the electorate.

Donal · 27th February 2023, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Can the Dems please demonstrate they've learned the lesson about Trump and start the character assassination of DeSantis now? Twitter and Facebook should be full of DeSantis as Hitler memes now. The guy is a Nazi so the attack posts practically write themselves.

Doing that only endears him to the far-right and gives centrist enablers an excuse to dismiss Democrats ("pointing out someone is acting like a Nazi is just as bad as acting like a Nazi").

If you really want to stop DeSantis, paint him as a weakling. Play his own ads of him debasing himself for trump. Run that stupid Top Gun ad he made. Show him shout whining at reporters. High light how all of his culture war nonsense burns out as soon as there is any pushback.

The thing about strongman authoritarians is that they are fake tough guys.

dudalb · 27th February 2023, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I always take US voting results with a beaker of salt. Voluntary voting means not all voters vote. Those that don't are either too old, don't care, or they have been gerrymandered. When only the fascists can vote, they vote for fascists.

You need to take the voting results of most democracies with a ton of salt, since very few have mandatory voting.

dudalb · 27th February 2023, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

sad, but true.

I suggest that forcing people who don't care to vote is not a good idea.

dudalb · 27th February 2023, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

The GOPs problem is that DeSantis is the more boring version of Trump: an insider instead of a wildcard, an operative instead of a renegade.
Trump could rally the anti- establishment Vote in a way DeSantis never will.

The best way to character-assasinate DeSantis is to highlight his connections to the RNC and McConnell.

De Santis's new book is an attack on the GOP Establishment, but I suspect it comes off as phony.DeSantis will say or do just about anything to be elected.

Stacyhs · 27th February 2023, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I suggest that forcing people who don't care to vote is not a good idea.

I agree. If someone doesn't care enough to vote on their own, they're not going to care enough to give who and what the put their mark next to much, if any, thought.

Norman Alexander · 27th February 2023, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

You need to take the voting results of most democracies with a ton of salt, since very few have mandatory voting.

Indeed. But apart from the obvious tin-pot corruption-riddled ****-hole countries, most of them with voluntary voting also don't have political parties actively trying to prevent voters from voting if they do want to, or nullifying the votes of those who do. That's the problem...

Norman Alexander · 27th February 2023, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I suggest that forcing people who don't care to vote is not a good idea.

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I agree. If someone doesn't care enough to vote on their own, they're not going to care enough to give who and what the put their mark next to much, if any, thought.

So, for a thought experiment, consider if voting was indeed mandatory in the USA rather than voluntary. What do you think would change?

ETA: I think we have been this route before. Should it be a separate thread topic?

The Great Zaganza · 27th February 2023, 10:20 PM

DeSantis is willing to risk War with The Mouse.
Hope Disney is looking for ways to actively get someone more sympathetic into power in Florida.

Gulliver Foyle · 27th February 2023, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I always take US voting results with a beaker of salt. Voluntary voting means not all voters vote. Those that don't are either too old, don't care, or they have been gerrymandered. When only the fascists can vote, they vote for fascists.

It's not so much the voluntary voting but that the republicans have enthusiastically adopted Stalin's dictum on voting.

Norman Alexander · 27th February 2023, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

It's not so much the voluntary voting but that the republicans have enthusiastically adopted Stalin's dictum on voting.

I would put that under the general heading of "gerrymandering".

Stacyhs · 27th February 2023, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

So, for a thought experiment, consider if voting was indeed mandatory in the USA rather than voluntary. What do you think would change?

ETA: I think we have been this route before. Should it be a separate thread topic?

Nah. Been there, done that.

Norman Alexander · 28th February 2023, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Nah. Been there, done that.

Rightio, then.

Beelzebuddy · 28th February 2023, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

he won 59.4% of that wang of a state

Against Charlie Crist, a Democrat so centrist he was literally a Republican a decade ago. Florida Democrats were betting that if they ran a Republican against a Republican, surely the good people of the state would choose the lesser evil and sanity would prevail. I mean it's Florida, right? It's not like the entire state is known for deliberately and repeatedly making bad decisions.

Craig4 · 28th February 2023, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

He's playing far to the alt-right to beat out Trump in the primary. That is not an intelligent strategy at all. Maybe he doesn't have Trump's warped brain but I don't see him building up a cult following to any dangerous degree. I don't believe the majority of voters are white Christian nationalists pleased with all the nonsensical book and education banning going on in FL.

Seriously, is that playing well outside of his small circle of friends? People didn't elect Trump because he had policies they liked. They elected him because he spouted the BS they wanted to hear about Mexicans and Muslims and claimed to be a great businessman. That bubble has popped.

I think DeSantis is smarter than Trump and that's what worries me. He'll make nice with mainstream Republicans while getting the base all hot and bothered.

dudalb · 28th February 2023, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Indeed. But apart from the obvious tin-pot corruption-riddled ****-hole countries, most of them with voluntary voting also don't have political parties actively trying to prevent voters from voting if they do want to, or nullifying the votes of those who do. That's the problem...

OK then have automatic voter registration when you reach the legal age, but don't force people to go to the polls.

dudalb · 28th February 2023, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

I think DeSantis is smarter than Trump and that's what worries me. He'll make nice with mainstream Republicans while getting the base all hot and bothered.

I think DeSantis has no principals but DeSantis, he is like Trump is that respect.
But where is smarter is he knows better then to double down on failure. I predict, if he feels it would make me more acceprable to mainstream voters, he will begin to tone down or backpeddle on the Anti Gay stuff.
But what worries me is his thrist for power.

dudalb · 28th February 2023, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Against Charlie Crist, a Democrat so centrist he was literally a Republican a decade ago. Florida Democrats were betting that if they ran a Republican against a Republican, surely the good people of the state would choose the lesser evil and sanity would prevail. I mean it's Florida, right? It's not like the entire state is known for deliberately and repeatedly making bad decisions.

You someone way to the left would have done better in FLorida?

Norman Alexander · 28th February 2023, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

OK then have automatic voter registration when you reach the legal age, but don't force people to go to the polls.

How about make it illegal to PREVENT people going to the polls, by any means whatever.

Segnosaur · 1st March 2023, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

You someone way to the left would have done better in FLorida?

Maybe not necessarily "way to the left", but at least someone who wasn't a republican to begin with.

I do think moderates in general have a slight advantage in a general election, but actually being a member of the opposing party messes up the optics.

Sent from my moto e using Tapatalk

Donal · 1st March 2023, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Against Charlie Crist, a Democrat so centrist he was literally a Republican a decade ago. Florida Democrats were betting that if they ran a Republican against a Republican, surely the good people of the state would choose the lesser evil and sanity would prevail. I mean it's Florida, right? It's not like the entire state is known for deliberately and repeatedly making bad decisions.

This is something the Democrats do constantly. Instead of someone who has some fire and doesn't apologize for being a democrat, they run a diet Republican who spends as much time trashing other Democrats as they do opposing Republicans. And it fails. Every. Damn Time.

Andrew Gillum, for all his problems that came up afterward, ran a brilliant campaign. He lost by a rounding error and almost dragged Bill Nelson's comatose ass to victory with him. that's without the full backing of the state party and with a bunch of voter suppression. And Gillum wasn't even all that progressive. The dude just didn't shy away from calling out DeSantis' BS.

Had the state party properly backed Gillum or convinced Nelson to let a younger, more energetic Democrat run for his seat, US politics may look very different today.

Beelzebuddy · 1st March 2023, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

You someone way to the left would have done better in FLorida?

I think Crist should be seen as a poster boy for centrist politics, seeing as he can't even make up his own mind whose side he's on, and his failure speaks for itself.

It's a fine strategy in theory, I get it: so long as you're ever-so-slightly left of whatever Klan rally the GOP is raiding for candidates these days you should be able to grab all the left votes, all the center votes, and a fair number of non-deplorable right votes too. Against a fascist thug like DeSantis it should have been a landslide, if it worked that way. But it don't. Enough Democrats are never going to vote for a Republican, even one pretending to be a Democrat, even when the alternative is DeSantis, and enough Republicans are never going to vote for a Democrat, even one secretly Republican, even when the alternative is DeSantis, that the numbers falter. Hell I'd put money on there being more voters turned off just by Crist's cowardly fecklessness than turned on by DeSantis's arrogant authoritarianism. Running nearly-Republicans against actual-Republicans is a failing strategy no matter how many times it fails and the best you can think of is "oh so you think you could have done better?!"

What exactly that means for the party in terms of where its ideological preferences for candidates should be, I don't think we have enough data to say. Obviously I'd argue it'd be better for America in the long run if it was pushed as far left as possible to try and rebuild the social safety nets the GOP seems so eager to tear down, but all we have here is evidence that where we are right now is NOT where we need to be.

Brainster · 1st March 2023, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I suggest that forcing people who don't care to vote is not a good idea.

The liberals around here haven't adjusted to the fact that largely due to Trump, the roles have reversed and right now in the US, the low-information voters tend to be Republicans. To be honest, I'm having a tough time adjusting to it myself.

14th November 2022, 09:36 AM	#41
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Originally Posted by sackett ●JoeMorgue! You're starting to scare me! You say DeSnazi has some little charisma? It's hard to put into words exactly, he just doesn't give off that "I'm literally a joke and if you have enough neurons to rub together to make a synapse not only will not take me seriously you will not be able to comprehend how any one could" quality that Trump has. Now to be fair this could work against him. By the same token he doesn't have the "Flaming bag of dog poop to put on the Liberals doorstep, hate me or love me you will not ignore me" quality Trump did. Trump very much started off as a "Are you listening to me know?" brick thrown through our windows by rural America. DeSantis can't start from that position as easily.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

14th November 2022, 10:24 AM	#42
ZiprHead Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sag-Nasty Posts: 927	Remember I said Trump worship was a cult of personality? I became a Republican because of President Trump. When he leaves, I become an independent.
	__________________ When conservatives realize they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will abandon democracy. IIDB is back, baby!

14th November 2022, 11:27 AM	#43
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 36,535	Originally Posted by ZiprHead Remember I said Trump worship was a cult of personality? I became a Republican because of President Trump. When he leaves, I become an independent. Loving his bio: Quote: Fair Minded @foxnews Contributor, Podcast Host, Civil Rights Attorney, Author, Fmr School Teacher. Leo 2.0 on And he's Black. The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

14th November 2022, 02:37 PM	#44
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,628	to be fair, he doesn't say which sides of civil rights cases he argues.
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,628	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

26th February 2023, 07:28 AM	#45
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 26,918	Can the Dems please demonstrate they've learned the lesson about Trump and start the character assassination of DeSantis now? Twitter and Facebook should be full of DeSantis as Hitler memes now. The guy is a Nazi so the attack posts practically write themselves.
	__________________ Fight like a Ukrainian.

26th February 2023, 02:01 PM	#46
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,393	Some might say Trumpt is DeSnottis Lite, some might say tother way round. I'd call DeSnottoid a sort of streamlined Trumpf. But it's not significant which is what, they both operate on the principal of making hateful sonsofbitches feel good about themselves. Power to the Prix!
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

26th February 2023, 05:43 PM	#47
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,946	Originally Posted by Craig4 Can the Dems please demonstrate they've learned the lesson about Trump and start the character assassination of DeSantis now? Twitter and Facebook should be full of DeSantis as Hitler memes now. The guy is a Nazi so the attack posts practically write themselves. He's playing far to the alt-right to beat out Trump in the primary. That is not an intelligent strategy at all. Maybe he doesn't have Trump's warped brain but I don't see him building up a cult following to any dangerous degree. I don't believe the majority of voters are white Christian nationalists pleased with all the nonsensical book and education banning going on in FL. Seriously, is that playing well outside of his small circle of friends? People didn't elect Trump because he had policies they liked. They elected him because he spouted the BS they wanted to hear about Mexicans and Muslims and claimed to be a great businessman. That bubble has popped.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 26th February 2023 at 05:45 PM.

26th February 2023, 09:32 PM	#48
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	DeSantis is probably going to find serious blowback from some of his silly political decisions. Only the raving fascists, cross-eyed christian nationalists (same??), and the gun-waving rightist Cubans actually support him. It appears the rest of Florida either could not be bothered with his nonsense because it doesn't affect them, or actively oppose him. I mean... How many doddery old retirees on their last legs in the sun are going to care if CRT is taught in pre-school or not? The only "woke" they care about is being "woke" for brunch cocktails.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015} Last edited by Norman Alexander; 26th February 2023 at 09:35 PM.

26th February 2023, 10:18 PM	#49
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon Posts: 1,694	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger He's playing far to the alt-right to beat out Trump in the primary. That is not an intelligent strategy at all. Maybe he doesn't have Trump's warped brain but I don't see him building up a cult following to any dangerous degree. I don't believe the majority of voters are white Christian nationalists pleased with all the nonsensical book and education banning going on in FL. Seriously, is that playing well outside of his small circle of friends? People didn't elect Trump because he had policies they liked. They elected him because he spouted the BS they wanted to hear about Mexicans and Muslims and claimed to be a great businessman. That bubble has popped. I agree with most of this, but Desantis' small circle of friends happens to be Florida
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

26th February 2023, 10:20 PM	#50
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon Posts: 1,694	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander DeSantis is probably going to find serious blowback from some of his silly political decisions. Only the raving fascists, cross-eyed christian nationalists (same??), and the gun-waving rightist Cubans actually support him. It appears the rest of Florida either could not be bothered with his nonsense because it doesn't affect them, or actively oppose him. I mean... How many doddery old retirees on their last legs in the sun are going to care if CRT is taught in pre-school or not? The only "woke" they care about is being "woke" for brunch cocktails. he won 59.4% of that wang of a state
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

26th February 2023, 10:36 PM	#51
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by gabeygoat he won 59.4% of that wang of a state I always take US voting results with a beaker of salt. Voluntary voting means not all voters vote. Those that don't are either too old, don't care, or they have been gerrymandered. When only the fascists can vote, they vote for fascists.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

26th February 2023, 10:41 PM	#52
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,946	Originally Posted by gabeygoat I agree with most of this, but Desantis' small circle of friends happens to be Florida Part of FL and part of TX, there are 48 other states. DeSantis and the lot of them are all competing for Trump's dwindling base. 2020 and 2022 showed us that base is not the voice of America. It's the GOP's fault their party is so screwed up that to get elected to their primary you sabotage your viability in the General.

26th February 2023, 10:49 PM	#53
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon Posts: 1,694	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I always take US voting results with a beaker of salt. Voluntary voting means not all voters vote. Those that don't are either too old, don't care, or they have been gerrymandered. When only the fascists can vote, they vote for fascists. sad, but true.
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

26th February 2023, 10:52 PM	#54
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon Posts: 1,694	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Part of FL and part of TX, there are 48 other states. DeSantis and the lot of them are all competing for Trump's dwindling base. 2020 and 2022 showed us that base is not the voice of America. It's the GOP's fault their party is so screwed up that to get elected to their primary you sabotage your viability in the General. totally, their base is shrinking from an already small start. but, Florida and Texas are a **** ton of EC votes. turnout is probably more important than candidate:see Georgia.
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

26th February 2023, 11:17 PM	#55
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,893	The GOPs problem is that DeSantis is the more boring version of Trump: an insider instead of a wildcard, an operative instead of a renegade. Trump could rally the anti- establishment Vote in a way DeSantis never will. The best way to character-assasinate DeSantis is to highlight his connections to the RNC and McConnell.
	__________________ “Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 26th February 2023 at 11:19 PM.

27th February 2023, 06:51 AM	#56
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,764	I don't know if it's been said here, but I think of DeSantis less as Trump 2.0 and more like Santorum 2.0.
	__________________

27th February 2023, 10:31 AM	#57
Fidelio Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The island of Atlanta Posts: 1,147	"Santorum" A sadly neglected term sorely in need these days.
	__________________ .. The stars were suns, but so far away they were just little points of light ... The scale of the universe suddenly opened up to me. It was a kind of religious experience. There was a magnificence to it, a grandeur, a scale which has never left me. Never ever left me. Carl Sagan

27th February 2023, 11:03 AM	#58
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,897	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza The GOPs problem is that DeSantis is the more boring version of Trump: an insider instead of a wildcard, an operative instead of a renegade. Trump could rally the anti- establishment Vote in a way DeSantis never will. Another problem for Ron DeathSantis... His far-right credentials are open for anyone to see. Usually, being a "moderate" gives a candidate an advantage in an election. (The most moderate candidate won't ALWAYS win, and there are exceptions. But it does give a statistical advantage.) And in the 2016 election one of the reasons Trump was able to win was he was actually able to appear more 'moderate' than Clinton. Yes, it may seem surprising in hindsight, but in 2016 Trump had no real political track record, and his promises were vague enough that people could read in almost any position. (He promised "cheap health care for everyone", held up a rainbow flag at a political rally, didn't touch the possibility of eliminating social security, etc.) And Clinton had been successfully portrayed as a "left winger" (or at least someone under their control). But Meatball Ron has been in power in Florida for more than a term. We've seen "book bannings", attacks on LGBTQ rights, and people carrying swastika flags where he was giving speeches. With that type of background it is going to be hard if not impossible to appeal to moderates in the electorate.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

27th February 2023, 02:11 PM	#59
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,628	Originally Posted by Craig4 Can the Dems please demonstrate they've learned the lesson about Trump and start the character assassination of DeSantis now? Twitter and Facebook should be full of DeSantis as Hitler memes now. The guy is a Nazi so the attack posts practically write themselves. Doing that only endears him to the far-right and gives centrist enablers an excuse to dismiss Democrats ("pointing out someone is acting like a Nazi is just as bad as acting like a Nazi"). If you really want to stop DeSantis, paint him as a weakling. Play his own ads of him debasing himself for trump. Run that stupid Top Gun ad he made. Show him shout whining at reporters. High light how all of his culture war nonsense burns out as soon as there is any pushback. The thing about strongman authoritarians is that they are fake tough guys.
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27th February 2023, 03:59 PM	#60
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I always take US voting results with a beaker of salt. Voluntary voting means not all voters vote. Those that don't are either too old, don't care, or they have been gerrymandered. When only the fascists can vote, they vote for fascists. You need to take the voting results of most democracies with a ton of salt, since very few have mandatory voting.

27th February 2023, 04:00 PM	#61
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Originally Posted by gabeygoat sad, but true. I suggest that forcing people who don't care to vote is not a good idea.

27th February 2023, 04:02 PM	#62
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza The GOPs problem is that DeSantis is the more boring version of Trump: an insider instead of a wildcard, an operative instead of a renegade. Trump could rally the anti- establishment Vote in a way DeSantis never will. The best way to character-assasinate DeSantis is to highlight his connections to the RNC and McConnell. De Santis's new book is an attack on the GOP Establishment, but I suspect it comes off as phony.DeSantis will say or do just about anything to be elected.

27th February 2023, 04:39 PM	#63
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Originally Posted by dudalb I suggest that forcing people who don't care to vote is not a good idea. I agree. If someone doesn't care enough to vote on their own, they're not going to care enough to give who and what the put their mark next to much, if any, thought.

27th February 2023, 09:31 PM	#64
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by dudalb You need to take the voting results of most democracies with a ton of salt, since very few have mandatory voting. Indeed. But apart from the obvious tin-pot corruption-riddled **-hole countries, most of them with voluntary voting also don't have political parties actively trying to prevent voters from voting if they do want to, or nullifying the votes of those who do. That's** the problem...
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

27th February 2023, 09:32 PM	#65
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by dudalb I suggest that forcing people who don't care to vote is not a good idea. Originally Posted by Stacyhs I agree. If someone doesn't care enough to vote on their own, they're not going to care enough to give who and what the put their mark next to much, if any, thought. So, for a thought experiment, consider if voting was indeed mandatory in the USA rather than voluntary. What do you think would change? ETA: I think we have been this route before. Should it be a separate thread topic?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

27th February 2023, 10:20 PM	#66
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,893	DeSantis is willing to risk War with The Mouse. Hope Disney is looking for ways to actively get someone more sympathetic into power in Florida.
	__________________ “Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.”

27th February 2023, 10:57 PM	#67
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,699	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I always take US voting results with a beaker of salt. Voluntary voting means not all voters vote. Those that don't are either too old, don't care, or they have been gerrymandered. When only the fascists can vote, they vote for fascists. It's not so much the voluntary voting but that the republicans have enthusiastically adopted Stalin's dictum on voting.

27th February 2023, 11:15 PM	#68
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle It's not so much the voluntary voting but that the republicans have enthusiastically adopted Stalin's dictum on voting. I would put that under the general heading of "gerrymandering".
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

27th February 2023, 11:57 PM	#69
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,320	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander So, for a thought experiment, consider if voting was indeed mandatory in the USA rather than voluntary. What do you think would change? ETA: I think we have been this route before. Should it be a separate thread topic? Nah. Been there, done that.

28th February 2023, 02:32 AM	#70
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Nah. Been there, done that. Rightio, then.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

28th February 2023, 06:34 AM	#71
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 9,385	Originally Posted by gabeygoat he won 59.4% of that wang of a state Against Charlie Crist, a Democrat so centrist he was literally a Republican a decade ago. Florida Democrats were betting that if they ran a Republican against a Republican, surely the good people of the state would choose the lesser evil and sanity would prevail. I mean it's Florida, right? It's not like the entire state is known for deliberately and repeatedly making bad decisions.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 9,385

28th February 2023, 05:47 PM	#72
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 26,918	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger He's playing far to the alt-right to beat out Trump in the primary. That is not an intelligent strategy at all. Maybe he doesn't have Trump's warped brain but I don't see him building up a cult following to any dangerous degree. I don't believe the majority of voters are white Christian nationalists pleased with all the nonsensical book and education banning going on in FL. Seriously, is that playing well outside of his small circle of friends? People didn't elect Trump because he had policies they liked. They elected him because he spouted the BS they wanted to hear about Mexicans and Muslims and claimed to be a great businessman. That bubble has popped. I think DeSantis is smarter than Trump and that's what worries me. He'll make nice with mainstream Republicans while getting the base all hot and bothered.
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28th February 2023, 07:22 PM	#73
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Indeed. But apart from the obvious tin-pot corruption-riddled **-hole countries, most of them with voluntary voting also don't have political parties actively trying to prevent voters from voting if they do want to, or nullifying the votes of those who do. That's** the problem... OK then have automatic voter registration when you reach the legal age, but don't force people to go to the polls.
	Last edited by dudalb; 28th February 2023 at 07:28 PM.

28th February 2023, 07:25 PM	#74
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Originally Posted by Craig4 I think DeSantis is smarter than Trump and that's what worries me. He'll make nice with mainstream Republicans while getting the base all hot and bothered. I think DeSantis has no principals but DeSantis, he is like Trump is that respect. But where is smarter is he knows better then to double down on failure. I predict, if he feels it would make me more acceprable to mainstream voters, he will begin to tone down or backpeddle on the Anti Gay stuff. But what worries me is his thrist for power.

28th February 2023, 07:26 PM	#75
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy Against Charlie Crist, a Democrat so centrist he was literally a Republican a decade ago. Florida Democrats were betting that if they ran a Republican against a Republican, surely the good people of the state would choose the lesser evil and sanity would prevail. I mean it's Florida, right? It's not like the entire state is known for deliberately and repeatedly making bad decisions. You someone way to the left would have done better in FLorida?