Criminal Charges Against Trump / Trump Indicted Part II

Aridas · 19th April 2023, 12:29 AM

Thread continued from here.

As is usual, the split point is arbitrary and you may quote from the previous thread.

Posted By:Agatha

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

This is a survey of Republicans. Both Trump and DeSantis are vying for about 30-odd% of Republicans each, with a big Don't Know factor.

Registered Republicans make up only about 20% of the US population. So really, these two massive donuts have maybe 5-6% of the US behind them. Each. They are truly tiny little non-entities casting giant shadows.

It is. The more they go crazy for the crazy base, of course, the more impetus that Independents and Democrats have to very firmly oppose them.

With that said, the pertinent warning is that whoever wins the Republican nomination will nigh inevitably have the force of the Republican riggers and propaganda machine behind them and are pretty much guaranteed to have a very real shot at winning the general election, no matter how insane or brazenly evil.

Gulliver Foyle · 19th April 2023, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

This is a little tangential, but probably still of interest.

Poll: Trump's big post-indictment bounce is fading fast
The former president's lead over Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in the Republican primary has shrunk 10 points since late March.

Feels like that is nearly as predictable as the bounce was, really. May they both sink the party's prospects as a whole, though. Both are horrendously bad, after all.

Slightly off topic, but every time I see a photo or video of Trump doing his fist pump pseudo Hitler salute thing, he looks like a lost child looking for validation and comfort from an adult just standing off screen.

Gulliver Foyle · 19th April 2023, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

It is. The more they go crazy for the crazy base, of course, the more impetus that Independents and Democrats have to very firmly oppose them.

With that said, the pertinent warning is that whoever wins the Republican nomination will nigh inevitably have the force of the Republican riggers and propaganda machine behind them and are pretty much guaranteed to have a very real shot at winning the general election, no matter how insane or brazenly evil.

Or how few people actually vote for them. Expect every single result in every single red state for the next general election to have the same truthfulness as the "referenda" Russia held in occupied Ukraine last October.

JoeMorgue · 19th April 2023, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

This is a survey of Republicans. Both Trump and DeSantis are vying for about 30-odd% of Republicans each, with a big Don't Know factor.

They're Republicans. They have to be told what to think.

Orphia Nay · 19th April 2023, 03:27 PM

Now we're on the first page of a new thread, for posterity's sake, here's the Statement of Facts in NY v Trump:

https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploa...-Trump-SOF.pdf

Hercules56 · 19th April 2023, 05:28 PM

Any news from Georgia?

Skeptic Ginger · 19th April 2023, 07:12 PM

Link

Originally Posted by dirtywick

idk what trump has going on that makes him act the way he does, but he appears to have lost the script a while ago and is not getting less unhinged

Trump didn't lose the script. You can only hide behind a facade for so long until more and more people begin to see behind it.

After 6 years the number of people still fooled by his con has shrunk considerably.

smartcooky · 19th April 2023, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Any news from Georgia?

Well what I can tell you is that the DA has filed to have the lawyer, Kimberly Burroughs Debrow, who represents 10 of the fake slate of electors, disqualified from representing them on the basis of a conflict of interest. Apparently the DA has interviewed all of them and a number of them want to turn on others in the group in exchange for immunity. It seems the lawyer in this case is desperate to keep all her ducks in a row and is trying to get them all to tell the same story - but she has failed to inform her clients about the potential immunity deals after they were offered, thereby keeping them in the dark about the opportunity to co-operate with the authorities in exchange for immunity. When the DA/Prosecutors make offers, lawyers in Georgia (like most states) are ethically bound under the Georgia Rules of Professional Conduct to inform their clients of those offers.

Rule 1.3, a lawyer must "act with reasonable diligence and promptness in representing a client."
Rule 1.4 requires lawyers to communicate regularly with their clients and keep them informed about the status of their case.
Rule 1.7 requires lawyers "to avoid conflicts of interest and to disclose any potential conflicts to their clients".

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atl...E23R3ZRVCDUNA/

Paul2 · 20th April 2023, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Well what I can tell you is that the DA has filed to have the lawyer, Kimberly Burroughs Debrow, who represents 10 of the fake slate of electors, disqualified from representing them on the basis of a conflict of interest. Apparently the DA has interviewed all of them and a number of them want to turn on others in the group in exchange for immunity. It seems the lawyer in this case is desperate to keep all her ducks in a row and is trying to get them all to tell the same story - but she has failed to inform her clients about the potential immunity deals after they were offered, thereby keeping them in the dark about the opportunity to co-operate with the authorities in exchange for immunity. When the DA/Prosecutors make offers, lawyers in Georgia (like most states) are ethically bound under the Georgia Rules of Professional Conduct to inform their clients of those offers.

Rule 1.3, a lawyer must "act with reasonable diligence and promptness in representing a client."
Rule 1.4 requires lawyers to communicate regularly with their clients and keep them informed about the status of their case.
Rule 1.7 requires lawyers "to avoid conflicts of interest and to disclose any potential conflicts to their clients".

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atl...E23R3ZRVCDUNA/

Not telling your client about an immunity offer is just a horrible thing for a lawyer to do, but no one is surprised.

acbytesla · 20th April 2023, 12:31 PM

Trump apparently will not attend the rape and defamation trial starting next week. But asked the judge to read a statement to the jury that he is doing it to spare New York the cost and trouble.

The judge said "no". "If Trump can attend a wrestling championship, he can attend his own trial."

gnome · 20th April 2023, 01:01 PM

"I'd like to apologize too to the prosecuting counsel for dragging him in here morning after morning in such lovely weather. And now I must come to the jury. What can I say. I've dragged you in here, day after day, keeping you away from your homes, your jobs, your loved ones, just to hear the private details of my petty atrocities."

Stacyhs · 20th April 2023, 01:26 PM

It wouldn't surprise me if his lawyers suggested he not attend in order to ensure he doesn't make any impulsive incriminating outbursts. His lack of self-control is legendary.

Norman Alexander · 20th April 2023, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

It wouldn't surprise me if his lawyers suggested he not attend in order to ensure he doesn't make any impulsive incriminating outbursts. His lack of self-control is legendary.

MUCH more likely. Even a major mook like Tacopenis is aware enough to keep Trump away from anything where he could "say somethin' stoopid".

smartcooky · 21st April 2023, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by Paul2

Not telling your client about an immunity offer is just a horrible thing for a lawyer to do, but no one is surprised.

Indeed, but as you say, its unsurprising.

These days, lawyers for MAGAchuds are usually MAGAchuds themselves, fully beholden to their Dear Leader, and to putting his interests above those of their actual clients. They are all that's left, because any lawyers with principles have long since been fired or thrown under the bus.

MAGA - Making Attorneys Get Attorneys since 2016

Nosi · 21st April 2023, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Trump apparently will not attend the rape and defamation trial starting next week. But asked the judge to read a statement to the jury that he is doing it to spare New York the cost and trouble.

The judge said "no". "If Trump can attend a wrestling championship, he can attend his own trial."

smartcooky · 23rd April 2023, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Paul2

Not telling your client about an immunity offer is just a horrible thing for a lawyer to do, but no one is surprised.

There is now another aspect to this.

Apparently, the two fake electors who told DA Fani Willis that their lawyer (Kimberly Bourroughs-Debrow), never passed on to them her offer of immunity in return for testimony, also told the DA that there was another fake elector whom she also represents, who they both know committed a criminal act that violates Georgia law, and that they were not involved in it.

Bourroughs-Debrow (who represents 10 of the fake electors) now finds herself representing two people who seem to want to testify against another of her clients in the same action. That puts her in a huge conflict of interest, something that she should have immediately brought to the attention of the court.

These are very serious ethics violations. Bourroughs-Debrow will almost certainly face a bar hearing and could even be disbarred.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps...-on-each-other

"It turns out, these Republican officials and political operatives are now starting to squirm, identifying illegal behavior by their colleagues while trying to save their own skin—a sudden pivot that came when Willis’ investigators met with these fake electors last week."

Skeptic Ginger · 23rd April 2023, 02:08 PM

Do we know yet what the 'other crimes' were?

Norman Alexander · 23rd April 2023, 02:15 PM

Break and enter? Trespass?

slyjoe · 23rd April 2023, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Break and enter? Trespass?

Examining election machines. Or at least attempting to. One of the fake electors coordinated the whole "mission".

Armitage72 · 24th April 2023, 12:21 PM

I was going to put this in the Trump Presidency thread, but it probably fits better here.
What's the most sensible thing that Trump could be doing at this point? How about publicly announcing that if he returns to office, he'll use the DOJ to get revenge on all of the prosecutors and DA's who have been investigating him.

"On Day One of my new administration I will direct the DOJ to investigate every radical DA and Attorney General in America for their illegal racist-in-reverse enforcement of the law."

Yes, antagonize and threaten the people investigating you. That seems smart.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Norman Alexander · 24th April 2023, 02:16 PM

Because the universe revolves around his arse, and nobody matters more than him because there is nobody but him. And he is a petty, vengeful son-of-a-bitch, and always has been.

Hercules56 · 24th April 2023, 04:33 PM

No news about charges in GA until at least July 11.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/24/u...n-georgia.html

Armitage72 · 24th April 2023, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

No news about charges in GA until at least July 11.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/24/u...n-georgia.html

But the DA informed local law enforcement that they should make preparations to deal with violence in response to the announcement, so it's doubtful that she expects to announce "He's free to go. Sorry for the inconvenience."

Hercules56 · 24th April 2023, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

But the DA informed local law enforcement that they should make preparations to deal with violence in response to the announcement, so it's doubtful that she expects to announce "He's free to go. Sorry for the inconvenience."

I hope so.

Stacyhs · 24th April 2023, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

I was going to put this in the Trump Presidency thread, but it probably fits better here.
What's the most sensible thing that Trump could be doing at this point? How about publicly announcing that if he returns to office, he'll use the DOJ to get revenge on all of the prosecutors and DA's who have been investigating him.

"On Day One of my new administration I will direct the DOJ to investigate every radical DA and Attorney General in America for their illegal racist-in-reverse enforcement of the law."

Yes, antagonize and threaten the people investigating you. That seems smart.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Does that include REPUBLICAN radical DA's and AG's (like Ken Paxton of Texas)?

smartcooky · 24th April 2023, 09:52 PM

OMG! The Late Night Show hosts have been having a field day(night)

Orphia Nay · 26th April 2023, 12:17 AM

Can we try and make this side discussion more about Trump's criminal charges?

I for one am hoping for news about the thread title when I click on this thread.

arthwollipot · 26th April 2023, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Can we try and make this side discussion more about Trump's criminal charges?

I for one am hoping for news about the thread title when I click on this thread.

Unfortunately there isn't a lot of new news yet, so we're just keeping the thread active by digressing until there is.

sarge · 26th April 2023, 05:25 AM

Discussion of mandatory voting moved to new thread here http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=365749

Posted By:sarge

arthwollipot · 26th April 2023, 07:39 PM

Getting back on track:

Donald Trump raped me, writer E Jean Carroll testifies in New York court

Quote:

Advice columnist says former president ‘shattered my reputation’ and says alleged attack left her unable to enjoy romantic life

The advice columnist E Jean Carroll told a New York jury on Wednesday that Donald Trump raped her, leaving her unable to have a romantic relationship, and then “shattered my reputation” by denying the attack occurred.

Carroll testified in her civil lawsuit seeking damages for battery – after Trump allegedly sexually assaulted her in a New York department store changing room in 1996 – and for defamation, after he accused her of lying and perpetrating a hoax when she went public with her accusations in a book.

“I’m here because Donald Trump raped me, and when I wrote about it, he said it didn’t happen. He lied and shattered my reputation. I’m here to try and get my life back,” she told the jury.

Trump denies the accusations.

Orphia Nay · 26th April 2023, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Getting back on track:

Donald Trump raped me, writer E Jean Carroll testifies in New York court

There's more on that in the Trump Presidency thread, because that court case isn't a criminal trial, sadly.

smartcooky · 27th April 2023, 12:00 AM

DA Alvin Bragg has filed what is tantamount to a gag order against The Fat Orange Turd w.r.t. the evidence the DA's office have provided his lawyers with in discovery

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/25/n...gag-order.html

While the prosecution is not seeking a gag order to prevent Mr. Trump from discussing the case at all, its request could restrain Mr. Trump’s ability to use the material for political purposes.

In her request to the judge, assistant District Attorney, Catherine McCaw cited Mr. Trump’s well-known propensity to use social media and public appearances to attack those investigating him. She noted that he had already begun to do so, slinging invective at those involved in the Manhattan case, including Mr. Bragg, Mr. Cohen, Ms. Daniels and Justice Merchan himself.

That pattern of attacks, she wrote, is particularly concerning given that Mr. Trump faces a separate federal investigation into his handling of sensitive documents. The fact that Mr. Trump “is currently under federal investigation for his handling of classified materials, gives rise to significant concern that defendant will similarly misuse grand jury and other sensitive materials here,”

The DA has requested that Mr. Trump — or anyone else who received the case materials — be blocked from disseminating them to news or social media platforms. And she said that there was a smaller subset of materials that should be kept in the “exclusive control” of his lawyers. Mr. Trump should be barred from reviewing that material without his lawyers present, Ms. McCaw said. She did not elaborate on what that material was expected to include.

Bragg has also requested that the names of his junior staff be redacted fro all evidence...

The district attorney’s office also requested that the names of employees identified in case material — with the exception of the prosecutors and investigators working on the case — be redacted from documents. Ms. McCaw wrote that those names would include the office’s paralegals, often young people who recently graduated from college.

“While lawyers and sworn members of law enforcement who work for the office must do their work in public, there is no corresponding need for its support staff to be identified to the world and potentially subject to defendant’s attacks,” she wrote.

I have zero doubt that The Fat Orange Turd would dox those juniors and para-legals and put a target on their backs for the scum that pass for his supporters.

newyorkguy · 27th April 2023, 07:23 PM

Today Mike Pence testified before the federal grand jury considering whether to bring indictments regarding attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. CBS News reports:

Quote:

Former Vice President Mike Pence appeared for more than seven hours before the grand jury investigating former President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, according to sources with knowledge of his testimony. Federal prosecutors were interested in questioning the former vice president about the events surrounding the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol and efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. Pence testified before the grand jury at the D.C. District Court. Grand jury testimony and related proceedings happen in secret and are shielded from the public by federal law. On Wednesday night, a three-judge panel on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected former President Donald Trump's argument that Pence should be shielded from testifying about his interactions with Trump in the last weeks of his administration. CBS News link

In an emergency hearing Wednesday night, trump's lawyers argued Pence should not be allowed to testify in regards to then president trump. The trump legal team argued based on a "concept of executive privilege, which protects certain communications between the president and some members of his administration." The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia rejected the argument, clearing the way for Pence to testify today.

Stacyhs · 28th April 2023, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Today Mike Pence testified before the federal grand jury considering whether to bring indictments regarding attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. CBS News reports:

In an emergency hearing Wednesday night, trump's lawyers argued Pence should not be allowed to testify in regards to then president trump. The trump legal team argued based on a "concept of executive privilege, which protects certain communications between the president and some members of his administration." The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia rejected the argument, clearing the way for Pence to testify today.

I think Pence really wanted to testify but had to make a show of resisting for Republicans. Now, he could tell the grand jury the entire truth of Trump's efforts to get him to break the law on Jan. 6.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th April 2023, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I think Pence really wanted to testify but had to make a show of resisting for Republicans. Now, he could tell the grand jury the entire truth of Trump's efforts to get him to break the law on Jan. 6.

All while playing the innocence card and making excuses for why he didn't speak up sooner, maybe stopping the mob or making sure police backup was there.

Bet he never imagined they'd be chanting 'hang Mike Pence'.

The Don · 30th April 2023, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I think Pence really wanted to testify but had to make a show of resisting for Republicans. Now, he could tell the grand jury the entire truth of Trump's efforts to get him to break the law on Jan. 6.

He could, but I doubt he will.

Instead he'll stick to the official GOP narrative that the election was stolen and that all that happened on 6th January was that a group of patriots went on a self-guided tour of the Capitol whilst at the same time Antifa attempted a false-flag insurrection and some of the patriots become a little over-exuberant in their attempts to defend democracy.

Pence is a GOP creature and understands that the support of the MAGA crowd is essential if his political career is to continue.

newyorkguy · 30th April 2023, 05:49 AM

Would Pence tell the Grand Jury the 2020 election was stolen and that January 6th was a mere protest? I'm not sure the prosecutors would have asked him those kinds of questions. News reports indicate that what prosecutors want is to hear from Pence as to what did trump do, what did trump say and when did he do it/say it.

The election was stolen, Jan 6 was a sightseeing event? That's not what Pence has been saying recently. As was widely reported last month.

Quote:

“President Trump was wrong,” Pence said during remarks at the annual white-tie Gridiron Dinner attended by politicians and journalists. “I had no right to overturn the election. And his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know history will hold Donald Trump accountable...Make no mistake about it, what happened that day was a disgrace,” Pence said in his Gridiron Dinner remarks. “And it mocks decency to portray it any other way.” NBC News link

Crazy Chainsaw · 30th April 2023, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Would Pence tell the Grand Jury the 2020 election was stolen and that January 6th was a mere protest? I'm not sure the prosecutors would have asked him those kinds of questions. News reports indicate that what prosecutors want is to hear from Pence as to what did trump do, what did trump say and when did he do it/say it.

The election was stolen, Jan 6 was a sightseeing event? That's not what Pence has been saying recently. As was widely reported last month.

January 6th was all about Trump getting out of prosecution for his crimes in New York state if Pence Lies he should be charged with Purgery and Obstruction of Justice. It was clear to me that was Trump's motive on December 19 2020.

Stacyhs · 30th April 2023, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

He could, but I doubt he will.

Instead he'll stick to the official GOP narrative that the election was stolen and that all that happened on 6th January was that a group of patriots went on a self-guided tour of the Capitol whilst at the same time Antifa attempted a false-flag insurrection and some of the patriots become a little over-exuberant in their attempts to defend democracy.

Pence is a GOP creature and understands that the support of the MAGA crowd is essential if his political career is to continue.

I disagree. Pence's own team's investigation into voter fraud was unable to verify any of Trump's claims. Pence knows it wasn't stolen/ rigged and I can't see him lying about that under oath. As for J6...no. He was there with his family. He's knows better. Pence may be a lot of things, but a liar and perjurer, I highly doubt.

The Don · 30th April 2023, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I disagree. Pence's own team's investigation into voter fraud was unable to verify any of Trump's claims. Pence knows it wasn't stolen/ rigged and I can't see him lying about that under oath. As for J6...no. He was there with his family. He's knows better. Pence may be a lot of things, but a liar and perjurer, I highly doubt.

He may not perjury himself but he cannot contradict the official GOP narrative.

He will highlight the number of proven cases of voter fraud and repeat the GOP call for better voter ID.

As far as J6, he won't recall anything that's not on the record.

19th April 2023, 05:33 AM	#4
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander This is a survey of Republicans. Both Trump and DeSantis are vying for about 30-odd% of Republicans each, with a big Don't Know factor. They're Republicans. They have to be told what to think.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

19th April 2023, 03:27 PM	#5
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 41,967	Now we're on the first page of a new thread, for posterity's sake, here's the Statement of Facts in NY v Trump: https://thehill.com/wp-content/uploa...-Trump-SOF.pdf
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

19th April 2023, 05:28 PM	#6
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Any news from Georgia?
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

19th April 2023, 07:12 PM	#7
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,946	Link Originally Posted by dirtywick idk what trump has going on that makes him act the way he does, but he appears to have lost the script a while ago and is not getting less unhinged Trump didn't lose the script. You can only hide behind a facade for so long until more and more people begin to see behind it. After 6 years the number of people still fooled by his con has shrunk considerably.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 19th April 2023 at 07:20 PM.

19th April 2023, 08:51 PM	#8
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,610	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Any news from Georgia? Well what I can tell you is that the DA has filed to have the lawyer, Kimberly Burroughs Debrow, who represents 10 of the fake slate of electors, disqualified from representing them on the basis of a conflict of interest. Apparently the DA has interviewed all of them and a number of them want to turn on others in the group in exchange for immunity. It seems the lawyer in this case is desperate to keep all her ducks in a row and is trying to get them all to tell the same story - but she has failed to inform her clients about the potential immunity deals after they were offered, thereby keeping them in the dark about the opportunity to co-operate with the authorities in exchange for immunity. When the DA/Prosecutors make offers, lawyers in Georgia (like most states) are ethically bound under the Georgia Rules of Professional Conduct to inform their clients of those offers. Rule 1.3, a lawyer must "act with reasonable diligence and promptness in representing a client." Rule 1.4 requires lawyers to communicate regularly with their clients and keep them informed about the status of their case. Rule 1.7 requires lawyers "to avoid conflicts of interest and to disclose any potential conflicts to their clients". https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atl...E23R3ZRVCDUNA/
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass. Last edited by smartcooky; 19th April 2023 at 09:05 PM.

19th April 2023, 04:29 AM	#2
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,699	Originally Posted by Aridas This is a little tangential, but probably still of interest. Poll: Trump's big post-indictment bounce is fading fast The former president's lead over Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in the Republican primary has shrunk 10 points since late March. Feels like that is nearly as predictable as the bounce was, really. May they both sink the party's prospects as a whole, though. Both are horrendously bad, after all. Slightly off topic, but every time I see a photo or video of Trump doing his fist pump pseudo Hitler salute thing, he looks like a lost child looking for validation and comfort from an adult just standing off screen.

19th April 2023, 04:32 AM	#3
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,699	Originally Posted by Aridas It is. The more they go crazy for the crazy base, of course, the more impetus that Independents and Democrats have to very firmly oppose them. With that said, the pertinent warning is that whoever wins the Republican nomination will nigh inevitably have the force of the Republican riggers and propaganda machine behind them and are pretty much guaranteed to have a very real shot at winning the general election, no matter how insane or brazenly evil. Or how few people actually vote for them. Expect every single result in every single red state for the next general election to have the same truthfulness as the "referenda" Russia held in occupied Ukraine last October.

20th April 2023, 11:58 AM	#9
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,801	Originally Posted by smartcooky Well what I can tell you is that the DA has filed to have the lawyer, Kimberly Burroughs Debrow, who represents 10 of the fake slate of electors, disqualified from representing them on the basis of a conflict of interest. Apparently the DA has interviewed all of them and a number of them want to turn on others in the group in exchange for immunity. It seems the lawyer in this case is desperate to keep all her ducks in a row and is trying to get them all to tell the same story - but she has failed to inform her clients about the potential immunity deals after they were offered, thereby keeping them in the dark about the opportunity to co-operate with the authorities in exchange for immunity. When the DA/Prosecutors make offers, lawyers in Georgia (like most states) are ethically bound under the Georgia Rules of Professional Conduct to inform their clients of those offers. Rule 1.3, a lawyer must "act with reasonable diligence and promptness in representing a client." Rule 1.4 requires lawyers to communicate regularly with their clients and keep them informed about the status of their case. Rule 1.7 requires lawyers "to avoid conflicts of interest and to disclose any potential conflicts to their clients". https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atl...E23R3ZRVCDUNA/ Not telling your client about an immunity offer is just a horrible thing for a lawyer to do, but no one is surprised.
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,801	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

20th April 2023, 12:31 PM	#10
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,712	Trump won't show up for his own rape trial. Trump apparently will not attend the rape and defamation trial starting next week. But asked the judge to read a statement to the jury that he is doing it to spare New York the cost and trouble. The judge said "no". "If Trump can attend a wrestling championship, he can attend his own trial."
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th April 2023, 01:01 PM	#11
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,764	"I'd like to apologize too to the prosecuting counsel for dragging him in here morning after morning in such lovely weather. And now I must come to the jury. What can I say. I've dragged you in here, day after day, keeping you away from your homes, your jobs, your loved ones, just to hear the private details of my petty atrocities."
	__________________

20th April 2023, 01:26 PM	#12
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,321	It wouldn't surprise me if his lawyers suggested he not attend in order to ensure he doesn't make any impulsive incriminating outbursts. His lack of self-control is legendary.

20th April 2023, 04:26 PM	#13
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Originally Posted by Stacyhs It wouldn't surprise me if his lawyers suggested he not attend in order to ensure he doesn't make any impulsive incriminating outbursts. His lack of self-control is legendary. MUCH more likely. Even a major mook like Tacopenis is aware enough to keep Trump away from anything where he could "say somethin' stoopid".
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

21st April 2023, 04:12 AM	#14
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,610	Originally Posted by Paul2 Not telling your client about an immunity offer is just a horrible thing for a lawyer to do, but no one is surprised. Indeed, but as you say, its unsurprising. These days, lawyers for MAGAchuds are usually MAGAchuds themselves, fully beholden to their Dear Leader, and to putting his interests above those of their actual clients. They are all that's left, because any lawyers with principles have long since been fired or thrown under the bus. MAGA - Making Attorneys Get Attorneys since 2016
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

21st April 2023, 07:22 AM	#15
Nosi Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,039	Originally Posted by acbytesla Trump apparently will not attend the rape and defamation trial starting next week. But asked the judge to read a statement to the jury that he is doing it to spare New York the cost and trouble. The judge said "no". "If Trump can attend a wrestling championship, he can attend his own trial."
Nosi Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,039	__________________ __________ Hiding from the

23rd April 2023, 01:43 PM	#16
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,610	Originally Posted by Paul2 Not telling your client about an immunity offer is just a horrible thing for a lawyer to do, but no one is surprised. There is now another aspect to this. Apparently, the two fake electors who told DA Fani Willis that their lawyer (Kimberly Bourroughs-Debrow), never passed on to them her offer of immunity in return for testimony, also told the DA that there was another fake elector whom she also represents, who they both know committed a criminal act that violates Georgia law, and that they were not involved in it. Bourroughs-Debrow (who represents 10 of the fake electors) now finds herself representing two people who seem to want to testify against another of her clients in the same action. That puts her in a huge conflict of interest, something that she should have immediately brought to the attention of the court. These are very serious ethics violations. Bourroughs-Debrow will almost certainly face a bar hearing and could even be disbarred. https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps...-on-each-other "It turns out, these Republican officials and political operatives are now starting to squirm, identifying illegal behavior by their colleagues while trying to save their own skin—a sudden pivot that came when Willis’ investigators met with these fake electors last week."
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

23rd April 2023, 02:08 PM	#17
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,946	Do we know yet what the 'other crimes' were?

23rd April 2023, 02:15 PM	#18
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Break and enter? Trespass?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

23rd April 2023, 03:00 PM	#19
slyjoe Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 3,502	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Break and enter? Trespass? Examining election machines. Or at least attempting to. One of the fake electors coordinated the whole "mission".
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

24th April 2023, 02:16 PM	#21
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	Because the universe revolves around his arse, and nobody matters more than him because there is nobody but him. And he is a petty, vengeful son-of-a-bitch, and always has been.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

24th April 2023, 04:33 PM	#22
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	No news about charges in GA until at least July 11. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/24/u...n-georgia.html
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

24th April 2023, 05:00 PM	#23
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,825	Originally Posted by Hercules56 No news about charges in GA until at least July 11. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/24/u...n-georgia.html But the DA informed local law enforcement that they should make preparations to deal with violence in response to the announcement, so it's doubtful that she expects to announce "He's free to go. Sorry for the inconvenience."

24th April 2023, 05:03 PM	#24
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by Armitage72 But the DA informed local law enforcement that they should make preparations to deal with violence in response to the announcement, so it's doubtful that she expects to announce "He's free to go. Sorry for the inconvenience." I hope so.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

24th April 2023, 09:52 PM	#26
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,610	OMG! The Late Night Show hosts have been having a field day(night)
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

26th April 2023, 12:17 AM	#27
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 41,967	Can we try and make this side discussion more about Trump's criminal charges? I for one am hoping for news about the thread title when I click on this thread.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

26th April 2023, 01:07 AM	#28
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay Can we try and make this side discussion more about Trump's criminal charges? I for one am hoping for news about the thread title when I click on this thread. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of new news yet, so we're just keeping the thread active by digressing until there is.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

26th April 2023, 07:39 PM	#30
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,098	Getting back on track: Donald Trump raped me, writer E Jean Carroll testifies in New York court Quote: Advice columnist says former president ‘shattered my reputation’ and says alleged attack left her unable to enjoy romantic life The advice columnist E Jean Carroll told a New York jury on Wednesday that Donald Trump raped her, leaving her unable to have a romantic relationship, and then “shattered my reputation” by denying the attack occurred. Carroll testified in her civil lawsuit seeking damages for battery – after Trump allegedly sexually assaulted her in a New York department store changing room in 1996 – and for defamation, after he accused her of lying and perpetrating a hoax when she went public with her accusations in a book. “I’m here because Donald Trump raped me, and when I wrote about it, he said it didn’t happen. He lied and shattered my reputation. I’m here to try and get my life back,” she told the jury. Trump denies the accusations.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

26th April 2023, 09:43 PM	#31
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 41,967	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Getting back on track: Donald Trump raped me, writer E Jean Carroll testifies in New York court There's more on that in the Trump Presidency thread, because that court case isn't a criminal trial, sadly.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

27th April 2023, 12:00 AM	#32
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 23,610	DA Alvin Bragg has filed what is tantamount to a gag order against The Fat Orange Turd w.r.t. the evidence the DA's office have provided his lawyers with in discovery https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/25/n...gag-order.html While the prosecution is not seeking a gag order to prevent Mr. Trump from discussing the case at all, its request could restrain Mr. Trump’s ability to use the material for political purposes. In her request to the judge, assistant District Attorney, Catherine McCaw cited Mr. Trump’s well-known propensity to use social media and public appearances to attack those investigating him. She noted that he had already begun to do so, slinging invective at those involved in the Manhattan case, including Mr. Bragg, Mr. Cohen, Ms. Daniels and Justice Merchan himself. That pattern of attacks, she wrote, is particularly concerning given that Mr. Trump faces a separate federal investigation into his handling of sensitive documents. The fact that Mr. Trump “is currently under federal investigation for his handling of classified materials, gives rise to significant concern that defendant will similarly misuse grand jury and other sensitive materials here,” The DA has requested that Mr. Trump — or anyone else who received the case materials — be blocked from disseminating them to news or social media platforms. And she said that there was a smaller subset of materials that should be kept in the “exclusive control” of his lawyers. Mr. Trump should be barred from reviewing that material without his lawyers present, Ms. McCaw said. She did not elaborate on what that material was expected to include. Bragg has also requested that the names of his junior staff be redacted fro all evidence... The district attorney’s office also requested that the names of employees identified in case material — with the exception of the prosecutors and investigators working on the case — be redacted from documents. Ms. McCaw wrote that those names would include the office’s paralegals, often young people who recently graduated from college. “While lawyers and sworn members of law enforcement who work for the office must do their work in public, there is no corresponding need for its support staff to be identified to the world and potentially subject to defendant’s attacks,” she wrote. I have zero doubt that The Fat Orange Turd would dox those juniors and para-legals and put a target on their backs for the scum that pass for his supporters.
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass. Last edited by smartcooky; 27th April 2023 at 12:05 AM.

27th April 2023, 07:23 PM	#33
newyorkguy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: NY Posts: 13,077	Today Mike Pence testified before the federal grand jury considering whether to bring indictments regarding attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. CBS News reports: Quote: Former Vice President Mike Pence appeared for more than seven hours before the grand jury investigating former President Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, according to sources with knowledge of his testimony. Federal prosecutors were interested in questioning the former vice president about the events surrounding the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol and efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. Pence testified before the grand jury at the D.C. District Court. Grand jury testimony and related proceedings happen in secret and are shielded from the public by federal law. On Wednesday night, a three-judge panel on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected former President Donald Trump's argument that Pence should be shielded from testifying about his interactions with Trump in the last weeks of his administration. CBS News link In an emergency hearing Wednesday night, trump's lawyers argued Pence should not be allowed to testify in regards to then president trump. The trump legal team argued based on a "concept of executive privilege, which protects certain communications between the president and some members of his administration." The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia rejected the argument, clearing the way for Pence to testify today.

28th April 2023, 05:12 PM	#34
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,321	Originally Posted by newyorkguy Today Mike Pence testified before the federal grand jury considering whether to bring indictments regarding attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. CBS News reports: In an emergency hearing Wednesday night, trump's lawyers argued Pence should not be allowed to testify in regards to then president trump. The trump legal team argued based on a "concept of executive privilege, which protects certain communications between the president and some members of his administration." The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia rejected the argument, clearing the way for Pence to testify today. I think Pence really wanted to testify but had to make a show of resisting for Republicans. Now, he could tell the grand jury the entire truth of Trump's efforts to get him to break the law on Jan. 6.

28th April 2023, 05:21 PM	#35
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,946	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I think Pence really wanted to testify but had to make a show of resisting for Republicans. Now, he could tell the grand jury the entire truth of Trump's efforts to get him to break the law on Jan. 6. All while playing the innocence card and making excuses for why he didn't speak up sooner, maybe stopping the mob or making sure police backup was there. Bet he never imagined they'd be chanting 'hang Mike Pence'.

30th April 2023, 12:52 AM	#36
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,615	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I think Pence really wanted to testify but had to make a show of resisting for Republicans. Now, he could tell the grand jury the entire truth of Trump's efforts to get him to break the law on Jan. 6. He could, but I doubt he will. Instead he'll stick to the official GOP narrative that the election was stolen and that all that happened on 6th January was that a group of patriots went on a self-guided tour of the Capitol whilst at the same time Antifa attempted a false-flag insurrection and some of the patriots become a little over-exuberant in their attempts to defend democracy. Pence is a GOP creature and understands that the support of the MAGA crowd is essential if his political career is to continue.

30th April 2023, 05:49 AM	#37
newyorkguy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: NY Posts: 13,077	Would Pence tell the Grand Jury the 2020 election was stolen and that January 6th was a mere protest? I'm not sure the prosecutors would have asked him those kinds of questions. News reports indicate that what prosecutors want is to hear from Pence as to what did trump do, what did trump say and when did he do it/say it. The election was stolen, Jan 6 was a sightseeing event? That's not what Pence has been saying recently. As was widely reported last month. Quote: “President Trump was wrong,” Pence said during remarks at the annual white-tie Gridiron Dinner attended by politicians and journalists. “I had no right to overturn the election. And his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know history will hold Donald Trump accountable...Make no mistake about it, what happened that day was a disgrace,” Pence said in his Gridiron Dinner remarks. “And it mocks decency to portray it any other way.” NBC News link

30th April 2023, 07:43 AM	#38
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 7,317	Originally Posted by newyorkguy Would Pence tell the Grand Jury the 2020 election was stolen and that January 6th was a mere protest? I'm not sure the prosecutors would have asked him those kinds of questions. News reports indicate that what prosecutors want is to hear from Pence as to what did trump do, what did trump say and when did he do it/say it. The election was stolen, Jan 6 was a sightseeing event? That's not what Pence has been saying recently. As was widely reported last month. January 6th was all about Trump getting out of prosecution for his crimes in New York state if Pence Lies he should be charged with Purgery and Obstruction of Justice. It was clear to me that was Trump's motive on December 19 2020.

30th April 2023, 01:41 PM	#39
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,321	Originally Posted by The Don He could, but I doubt he will. Instead he'll stick to the official GOP narrative that the election was stolen and that all that happened on 6th January was that a group of patriots went on a self-guided tour of the Capitol whilst at the same time Antifa attempted a false-flag insurrection and some of the patriots become a little over-exuberant in their attempts to defend democracy. Pence is a GOP creature and understands that the support of the MAGA crowd is essential if his political career is to continue. I disagree. Pence's own team's investigation into voter fraud was unable to verify any of Trump's claims. Pence knows it wasn't stolen/ rigged and I can't see him lying about that under oath. As for J6...no. He was there with his family. He's knows better. Pence may be a lot of things, but a liar and perjurer, I highly doubt.