Wrong "Store" Shooting

Bogative · 2nd May 2023, 03:45 AM

25-year-old Brittany Rich rolls up to a convenience store in her beat up 2010 Dodge Avenger. She heads into the store to make a purchase, possibly Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea, media has not clarified as of yet, before exiting the store.

Once outside the store, a "man" snatches her car keys out of her hand. She follows him around to the side of her car and tries to take her keys back. He shoots her 7 times, once in the stomach, killing her unborn child.

Police are still searching for 3 subjects, no descriptions given, but 3 black males can be seen in security video participating in this crime. Brittany Rich is white.

Ms. Rich has not been invited to the White House as far as I'm aware.

Video of the shooting captured in broad daylight can be found in the news report.

https://www.wral.com/carjackers-shoo...hild/20712593/

Darat · 2nd May 2023, 04:40 AM

Surely the issue is the gun culture in the USA which leads to all these terrible deaths?

Bogative · 2nd May 2023, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Surely the issue is the gun culture in the USA which leads to all these terrible deaths?

Not all gun cultures are the same. My gun culture doesn't involve shooting pregnant women in the stomach so I can joyride her crappy car. So, no.

Lplus · 2nd May 2023, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Surely the issue is the gun culture in the USA which leads to all these terrible deaths?

So if they hadn't had guns they'd never have wanted to steal a car from a pregnant woman?

Darat · 2nd May 2023, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Lplus

So if they hadn't had guns they'd never have wanted to steal a car from a pregnant woman?

No.

Darat · 2nd May 2023, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

Not all gun cultures are the same. My gun culture doesn't involve shooting pregnant women in the stomach so I can joyride her crappy car. So, no.

The USA has a gun culture.

bluesjnr · 2nd May 2023, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

No.

Do you mean, no they wouldn't and the presence of firearms is a key motivation in this crime?

Darat · 2nd May 2023, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

Do you mean, no they wouldn't and the presence of firearms is a key motivation in this crime?

No.

dann · 2nd May 2023, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Lplus

So if they hadn't had guns they'd never have wanted to steal a car from a pregnant woman?

So if they hadn't been black, Bogative would never have posted this story?

I assume that the fetus has been gene-sequenced to make certain that it was 100 percent white. It would ruin the story if the father turned out to be black, wouldn't it?!

bluesjnr · 2nd May 2023, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by dann

So if they hadn't been black, Bogative would never have posted this story?

I assume that the fetus has been gene-sequenced to make certain that it was 100 percent white. It would ruin the story if the father turned out to be black, wouldn't it?!

In what way?

Bogative · 2nd May 2023, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

The USA has a gun culture.

I disagree, it has multiple gun cultures.

For example, my gun culture involves one .357 revolver for the extremely rare chance of home intruders. It was fired a handful of times when it was first purchased 15 years ago, it has been secured away since. I also have a .22 revolver that is 12 years old and has never been fired. It was purchased after a family pet was gravely wounded and I wanted to end its suffering as soon as possible. A .357 was a little too drastic for the family pet. In fact, I did not need to purchase the second revolver because I had a .22 rifle that was given to me decades ago that I forgot I had stored away.

Loitering in front of a convenience store with my homies and shooting a pregnant woman, who is of no physical threat, so I can still her car, is a completely different gun culture.

Norman Alexander · 2nd May 2023, 05:42 AM

From the same source:

Quote:

After years of opposition, the state Sheriffs’ Association did a 180-degree reversal in April 2021 to support repeal of the pistol permit law.

...

Nationwide, the number of children and teens killed by gunfire increased 50% between 2019 and 2021, according to a Pew Research Center analysis. Firearm violence is the leading cause of death among North Carolina youth aged 1 to 17. In 2021, the most recent full year available, 1,893 North Carolinians died as the result of gun violence. Since the first of this year, there have been a dozen mass shootings in the state leaving 13 dead and 36 injured. In 2021, the most recent year data is available, handguns were the weapon used in 410 (43%) of the 960 murders in the state.

Last year, Wake County’s sheriff received 33,926 pistol permit applications and about 2,100 were denied.

Why isn’t it common sense among our legislators to do MORE, not less, so guns don’t get into the hands of those who we know will make our communities more dangerous?

https://www.wral.com/story/editorial...ment/20818024/

Bogative · 2nd May 2023, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by dann

So if they hadn't been black, Bogative would never have posted this story?

I assume that the fetus has been gene-sequenced to make certain that it was 100 percent white. It would ruin the story if the father turned out to be black, wouldn't it?!

If Andrew Lester was a black man, would anyone have started the "wrong door shooting" thread? Maybe I missed your protestations of racial relevance there, yes?

Norman Alexander · 2nd May 2023, 05:55 AM

If only the fetus had been armed, because the only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good fetus with a gun. Then nothing bad would haver happened at all.

lionking · 2nd May 2023, 05:58 AM

Bogative is raising the fairly obvious but still valid issue of the disproportionate level of gun violence by black gun owners compared to non-black gun owners. Why this is so might be interesting, but more important is what should be done about it.

And it is not racist (or dog whistling) to raise this issue for discussion, but this will not stop some members saying it is.

Bogative · 2nd May 2023, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

Bogative is raising the fairly obvious but still valid issue of the disproportionate level of gun violence by black gun owners compared to non-black gun owners. Why this is so might be interesting, but more important is what should be done about it.

And it is not racist (or dog whistling) to raise this issue for discussion, but this will not stop some members saying it is.

You are correct. Thank you for being one of the few members of this board who has the integrity to say so.

angrysoba · 2nd May 2023, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

Bogative is raising the fairly obvious but still valid issue of the disproportionate level of gun violence by black gun owners compared to non-black gun owners. Why this is so might be interesting, but more important is what should be done about it.

And it is not racist (or dog whistling) to raise this issue for discussion, but this will not stop some members saying it is.

Originally Posted by Bogative

You are correct. Thank you for being one of the few members of this board who has the integrity to say so.

I'm all ears, Bogative and lionking.

What should be done about it?

Lukraak_Sisser · 2nd May 2023, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

You are correct. Thank you for being one of the few members of this board who has the integrity to say so.

Well yes, the systemic racism still present in the US which ensures the black population has far less access to education, healthcare, social security and steady well paying jobs does create an underclass and coupled with the US gun culture that does create a lot of shootings.

If there were less guns, there would be less shootings. But I agree with Bogative that the other social issues should be solved. Though that would require a form of government intervention the US also does not seem to want.

Darat · 2nd May 2023, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Well yes, the systemic racism still present in the US which ensures the black population has far less access to education, healthcare, social security and steady well paying jobs does create an underclass and coupled with the US gun culture that does create a lot of shootings.

If there were less guns, there would be less shootings. But I agree with Bogative that the other social issues should be solved. Though that would require a form of government intervention the US also does not seem to want.

Does anyone not think there are multiple inputs into the problems? A major one is systemic racism over generations and of course the old perennial: poverty.

Darat · 2nd May 2023, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

I disagree, it has multiple gun cultures.

For example, my gun culture involves one .357 revolver for the extremely rare chance of home intruders. It was fired a handful of times when it was first purchased 15 years ago, it has been secured away since. I also have a .22 revolver that is 12 years old and has never been fired. It was purchased after a family pet was gravely wounded and I wanted to end its suffering as soon as possible. A .357 was a little too drastic for the family pet. In fact, I did not need to purchase the second revolver because I had a .22 rifle that was given to me decades ago that I forgot I had stored away.

Loitering in front of a convenience store with my homies and shooting a pregnant woman, who is of no physical threat, so I can still her car, is a completely different gun culture.

All stems from the silliness of number 2.

lionking · 2nd May 2023, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

I'm all ears, Bogative and lionking.

What should be done about it?

You first.

All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions.

What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”.

Norman Alexander · 2nd May 2023, 06:37 AM

I'm curious to know if Bogative has a solution or punishment for Black gang gun offenders that differs from non-Black gang gun offenders.

angrysoba · 2nd May 2023, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

You first.

All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions.

What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”.

You see, I don't think that is a good way to address a problem. Heavy-handed hints that there's a problem with the blacks and something must be done but I can't think what.... *whistles innocently*

Anyway, as you and Bogative want something to be done, but won't say what, I decided to look up the question. Let's get started with this, which comes from Gabby Giffords's website on a page called Gun Violence in Black Communities...

Quote:

Evidence-based gun safety laws can help address the epidemic of gun violence in Black communities. Recent research has found that specific policies, like waiting periods,50 firearm licensing laws,51 and strong public carry laws52 all reduce homicides in Black communities. Importantly, many of these policies enjoy strong support from Black Americans. A poll of Black Americans and Black gun owners found that these groups support a number of gun safety laws, in many cases at higher rates than white Americans and white gun owners.53

These policy reforms must also be coupled with direct investments in community-led violence intervention programs. Community violence intervention programs engage individuals at highest risk of being victims or perpetrators—or both—of violence through a variety of strategies including building relationships and providing supportive social services, addressing conflict through nonviolent means like de-escalation and mediation, and working to support community healing from violence. At their core, these programs directly invest in communities and the people in them, with many programs helping to address systemic inequalities by meeting the economic, educational, health, and social needs of the participants and their families. Many communities have been employing these strategies for years, but dedicated, stable investments are needed to scale and sustain these programs.

Link

I suppose the tl;dr is some combination of gun control and social programmes.

Do you agree with this? If not, then I think the onus is now on both of you to come up with your own ideas.

Lukraak_Sisser · 2nd May 2023, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Does anyone not think there are multiple inputs into the problems? A major one is systemic racism over generations and of course the old perennial: poverty.

Interestingly, here in the Netherlands the non-white population tends to be poorer too. And yes, part of that is racism, though less than the US, but without the US gun culture the random mass shootings just do not seem to happen. It's almost as if a country flush with guns will tend to have lots of random shootings.

jeremyp · 2nd May 2023, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

I disagree, it has multiple gun cultures.

For example, my gun culture involves one .357 revolver for the extremely rare chance of home intruders. It was fired a handful of times when it was first purchased 15 years ago, it has been secured away since. I also have a .22 revolver that is 12 years old and has never been fired. It was purchased after a family pet was gravely wounded and I wanted to end its suffering as soon as possible. A .357 was a little too drastic for the family pet. In fact, I did not need to purchase the second revolver because I had a .22 rifle that was given to me decades ago that I forgot I had stored away.

In the UK, we have people called "veterinary surgeons" who we pay to put loved pets out of their suffering. They use a combination of chemicals to ensure the act is as painless as possible. I don't see why you needed a buy a gun for your pet. If you couldn't take it to the vet, you could have used a kitchen knife. That wouldn't have involved the delay caused by going to the store to get yourself a gun.

Quote:

Loitering in front of a convenience store with my homies and shooting a pregnant woman, who is of no physical threat, so I can still her car, is a completely different gun culture.

No it isn't. You owning a gun is not a culture. It's part of a culture and the fact that you can't see the connection between you thinking it is normal to buy a gun just so you can put your pet down and people using guns in robberies and all the other violent deaths and injuries is all part of the problem with American gun culture.

Darat · 2nd May 2023, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

You first.

All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions.

What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”.

1 - it very well could be - and yes that would be damn hard
2 - I don't think anyone who tries to be constructive believes that the USA should go from a very lax gun control country to one with less guns than the UK.

Also is it disproportionate? What is the rate for non-black people in the same conditions, it may not being black that causes the problem....

sackett · 2nd May 2023, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

I'm all ears, Bogative and lionking.

What should be done about it?

I asked Bog that in the other thread. So far, he's bravely kept silent.

Crossbow · 2nd May 2023, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

25-year-old Brittany Rich rolls up to a convenience store in her beat up 2010 Dodge Avenger. She heads into the store to make a purchase, possibly Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea, media has not clarified as of yet, before exiting the store.

Once outside the store, a "man" snatches her car keys out of her hand. She follows him around to the side of her car and tries to take her keys back. He shoots her 7 times, once in the stomach, killing her unborn child.

Police are still searching for 3 subjects, no descriptions given, but 3 black males can be seen in security video participating in this crime. Brittany Rich is white.

Ms. Rich has not been invited to the White House as far as I'm aware.

Video of the shooting captured in broad daylight can be found in the news report.

https://www.wral.com/carjackers-shoo...hild/20712593/

Pardon me for asking a dense question, but are you aware that this horrible incident happened 09 FEB 2023?

attempt5001 · 2nd May 2023, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

You first.

All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions.

What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”.

I'm always a bit baffled by the general line of reasoning that says "gun violence is a complicated problem, so there's no sense getting rid of guns". Doesn't a multi-facetted problem require a multi-facetted solution? Certainly some of the issues are highly complex and rooted in historical and on-going racial and cultural inequity. Other issues, such as the number and accessibility of guns, are more simple. It's hard for me to understand why someone wouldn't advocate to taking all available measures, both simple and short-term as well as complicated and long-term solutions, to try to reduce the number of firearm related deaths. I would think a "leave no stone unturned" approach would be the most appropriate response.

From what I can understand, this reasoning is trumped in many people's minds (most notably in America, but I see it in Canada as well), by an inflated sense of loss of personal freedom, and/or an extreme fear that a disarmed society will be quickly subjected to tyrannical government rule. I find this very strange and very sad considering the actual current reality is so many people being shot and killed.

Bogative · 2nd May 2023, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

I'm all ears, Bogative and lionking.

What should be done about it?

How about admitting and acknowledging the problem to start? We can't even do that without leftists crying racism and shutting the conversation down.

Hercules56 · 2nd May 2023, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Interestingly, here in the Netherlands the non-white population tends to be poorer too. And yes, part of that is racism, though less than the US, but without the US gun culture the random mass shootings just do not seem to happen. It's almost as if a country flush with guns will tend to have lots of random shootings.

Its my belief that if the UK, Germany, France most other EU nations were supplied with all the guns that the USA has they would still lag far behind in their rate of deadly violence. Why? I believe they deal much better with socioeconomic inequality and mental health than we do. Basically we are a nation of mentally ill malcontent sociopaths.

mumblethrax · 2nd May 2023, 08:13 AM

There's a pretty clear pattern here. Worthy topics raised in bad faith don't merit a response.

Parsman · 2nd May 2023, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

You first.

All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions.

What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”.

You don't get rid of guns but you regulate them more effectively and stringently. For example you can own a gun here in the UK but it is heavily regulated. You are making a strawman argument

Thermal · 2nd May 2023, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Bogative

I disagree, it has multiple gun cultures.

For example, my gun culture involves one .357 revolver for the extremely rare chance of home intruders. It was fired a handful of times when it was first purchased 15 years ago, it has been secured away since. I also have a .22 revolver that is 12 years old and has never been fired. It was purchased after a family pet was gravely wounded and I wanted to end its suffering as soon as possible. A .357 was a little too drastic for the family pet. In fact, I did not need to purchase the second revolver because I had a .22 rifle that was given to me decades ago that I forgot I had stored away.

Loitering in front of a convenience store with my homies and shooting a pregnant woman, who is of no physical threat, so I can still her car, is a completely different gun culture.

From what you describe, your situation is not part of a gun culture. You have a couple guns laying around, apparently packed away and not even ready for daily use. That's worlds away from regularly carrying a loaded one around for whatever reasons. Like, I have a variety of knives for different uses, but it isn't reasonable to say I am part of a knife culture unless I am carrying a K-bar at the hip daily, and a large part of my life revolves around it .

BrettM · 2nd May 2023, 09:30 AM

Let's talk about the feasibility of disarming the U.S. denizens. It actually requires a two tier approach.

1. Rigidly control the manufacture and sale of all new firearms. This requires new legislation and active policing to make it work. Believe it or not, this is the easy bit.

2. Remove and destroy most of the firearms in circulation. You have to do both. If you don't, they will just find their way back into the hands of killers.

Any ideas how to achieve this?

Hercules56 · 2nd May 2023, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by BrettM

Let's talk about the feasibility of disarming the U.S. denizens. It actually requires a two tier approach.

1. Rigidly control the manufacture and sale of all new firearms. This requires new legislation and active policing to make it work. Believe it or not, this is the easy bit.

2. Remove and destroy most of the firearms in circulation. You have to do both. If you don't, they will just find their way back into the hands of killers.

Any ideas how to achieve this?

Massive police state with authoritarian powers would be required. Civil war will be fought.

Thermal · 2nd May 2023, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

In the UK, we have people called "veterinary surgeons" who we pay to put loved pets out of their suffering. They use a combination of chemicals to ensure the act is as painless as possible. I don't see why you needed a buy a gun for your pet. If you couldn't take it to the vet, you could have used a kitchen knife. That wouldn't have involved the delay caused by going to the store to get yourself a gun.

Knifing is personal, and you generally have to use physical force and will get messy. Pulling a trigger is a passive power play. It's part of their charm.

Quote:

No it isn't. You owning a gun is not a culture. It's part of a culture and the fact that you can't see the connection between you thinking it is normal to buy a gun just so you can put your pet down and people using guns in robberies and all the other violent deaths and injuries is all part of the problem with American gun culture.

In fairness, we do have distinctly different gun cultures here in the States. One is the hunting and sportsman gun enthusiast, which you likely have in the UK to a lesser degree. Then we have a more violent breed of wannabe human killers, ranging from militia types to Charles Bronsons. They want guns to kill other people. The third are genuine sickos who actually use guns as a tool. Their "culture" is independent of the guns themselves, and a firearm is simply the most convenient way of getting what they want.

Thermal · 2nd May 2023, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by BrettM

Let's talk about the feasibility of disarming the U.S. denizens. It actually requires a two tier approach.

1. Rigidly control the manufacture and sale of all new firearms. This requires new legislation and active policing to make it work. Believe it or not, this is the easy bit.

2. Remove and destroy most of the firearms in circulation. You have to do both. If you don't, they will just find their way back into the hands of killers.

Any ideas how to achieve this?

Remove the population and replace it with another. Done and done.

bluesjnr · 2nd May 2023, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I'm curious to know if Bogative has a solution or punishment for Black gang gun offenders that differs from non-Black gang gun offenders.

Really? Do you suspect that he might and why?

Darat · 2nd May 2023, 09:41 AM

*Duplicate post removed*

2nd May 2023, 03:45 AM	#1
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	Wrong "Store" Shooting 25-year-old Brittany Rich rolls up to a convenience store in her beat up 2010 Dodge Avenger. She heads into the store to make a purchase, possibly Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea, media has not clarified as of yet, before exiting the store. Once outside the store, a "man" snatches her car keys out of her hand. She follows him around to the side of her car and tries to take her keys back. He shoots her 7 times, once in the stomach, killing her unborn child. Police are still searching for 3 subjects, no descriptions given, but 3 black males can be seen in security video participating in this crime. Brittany Rich is white. Ms. Rich has not been invited to the White House as far as I'm aware. Video of the shooting captured in broad daylight can be found in the news report. https://www.wral.com/carjackers-shoo...hild/20712593/
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020

2nd May 2023, 04:40 AM	#2
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,607	Surely the issue is the gun culture in the USA which leads to all these terrible deaths?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

2nd May 2023, 04:54 AM	#3
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	Originally Posted by Darat Surely the issue is the gun culture in the USA which leads to all these terrible deaths? Not all gun cultures are the same. My gun culture doesn't involve shooting pregnant women in the stomach so I can joyride her crappy car. So, no.
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020

2nd May 2023, 05:08 AM	#4
Lplus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,726	Originally Posted by Darat Surely the issue is the gun culture in the USA which leads to all these terrible deaths? So if they hadn't had guns they'd never have wanted to steal a car from a pregnant woman?
Lplus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,726

2nd May 2023, 05:14 AM	#5
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,607	Originally Posted by Lplus So if they hadn't had guns they'd never have wanted to steal a car from a pregnant woman? No.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

2nd May 2023, 05:14 AM	#6
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,607	Originally Posted by Bogative Not all gun cultures are the same. My gun culture doesn't involve shooting pregnant women in the stomach so I can joyride her crappy car. So, no. The USA has a gun culture.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

2nd May 2023, 05:26 AM	#7
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 11,201	Originally Posted by Darat No. Do you mean, no they wouldn't and the presence of firearms is a key motivation in this crime?
	__________________ "OTP? I don' need no steenkin' OTP!"

2nd May 2023, 05:30 AM	#8
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,607	Originally Posted by bluesjnr Do you mean, no they wouldn't and the presence of firearms is a key motivation in this crime? No.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

2nd May 2023, 05:31 AM	#9
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 17,863	Originally Posted by Lplus So if they hadn't had guns they'd never have wanted to steal a car from a pregnant woman? So if they hadn't been black, Bogative would never have posted this story? I assume that the fetus has been gene-sequenced to make certain that it was 100 percent white. It would ruin the story if the father turned out to be black, wouldn't it?!
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

2nd May 2023, 05:38 AM	#10
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 11,201	Originally Posted by dann So if they hadn't been black, Bogative would never have posted this story? I assume that the fetus has been gene-sequenced to make certain that it was 100 percent white. It would ruin the story if the father turned out to be black, wouldn't it?! In what way?
	__________________ "OTP? I don' need no steenkin' OTP!"

2nd May 2023, 05:42 AM	#11
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	Originally Posted by Darat The USA has a gun culture. I disagree, it has multiple gun cultures. For example, my gun culture involves one .357 revolver for the extremely rare chance of home intruders. It was fired a handful of times when it was first purchased 15 years ago, it has been secured away since. I also have a .22 revolver that is 12 years old and has never been fired. It was purchased after a family pet was gravely wounded and I wanted to end its suffering as soon as possible. A .357 was a little too drastic for the family pet. In fact, I did not need to purchase the second revolver because I had a .22 rifle that was given to me decades ago that I forgot I had stored away. Loitering in front of a convenience store with my homies and shooting a pregnant woman, who is of no physical threat, so I can still her car, is a completely different gun culture.
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020 Last edited by Bogative; 2nd May 2023 at 06:13 AM.

2nd May 2023, 05:42 AM	#12
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	From the same source: Quote: After years of opposition, the state Sheriffs’ Association did a 180-degree reversal in April 2021 to support repeal of the pistol permit law. ... Nationwide, the number of children and teens killed by gunfire increased 50% between 2019 and 2021, according to a Pew Research Center analysis. Firearm violence is the leading cause of death among North Carolina youth aged 1 to 17. In 2021, the most recent full year available, 1,893 North Carolinians died as the result of gun violence. Since the first of this year, there have been a dozen mass shootings in the state leaving 13 dead and 36 injured. In 2021, the most recent year data is available, handguns were the weapon used in 410 (43%) of the 960 murders in the state. Last year, Wake County’s sheriff received 33,926 pistol permit applications and about 2,100 were denied. Why isn’t it common sense among our legislators to do MORE, not less, so guns don’t get into the hands of those who we know will make our communities more dangerous? https://www.wral.com/story/editorial...ment/20818024/
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

2nd May 2023, 05:47 AM	#13
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	Originally Posted by dann So if they hadn't been black, Bogative would never have posted this story? I assume that the fetus has been gene-sequenced to make certain that it was 100 percent white. It would ruin the story if the father turned out to be black, wouldn't it?! If Andrew Lester was a black man, would anyone have started the "wrong door shooting" thread? Maybe I missed your protestations of racial relevance there, yes?
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020 Last edited by Bogative; 2nd May 2023 at 05:54 AM.

2nd May 2023, 05:55 AM	#14
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	If only the fetus had been armed, because the only thing stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good fetus with a gun. Then nothing bad would haver happened at all.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

2nd May 2023, 05:58 AM	#15
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,479	Bogative is raising the fairly obvious but still valid issue of the disproportionate level of gun violence by black gun owners compared to non-black gun owners. Why this is so might be interesting, but more important is what should be done about it. And it is not racist (or dog whistling) to raise this issue for discussion, but this will not stop some members saying it is.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

2nd May 2023, 06:16 AM	#16
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	Originally Posted by lionking Bogative is raising the fairly obvious but still valid issue of the disproportionate level of gun violence by black gun owners compared to non-black gun owners. Why this is so might be interesting, but more important is what should be done about it. And it is not racist (or dog whistling) to raise this issue for discussion, but this will not stop some members saying it is. You are correct. Thank you for being one of the few members of this board who has the integrity to say so.
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020

2nd May 2023, 06:20 AM	#17
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 34,399	Originally Posted by lionking Bogative is raising the fairly obvious but still valid issue of the disproportionate level of gun violence by black gun owners compared to non-black gun owners. Why this is so might be interesting, but more important is what should be done about it. And it is not racist (or dog whistling) to raise this issue for discussion, but this will not stop some members saying it is. Originally Posted by Bogative You are correct. Thank you for being one of the few members of this board who has the integrity to say so. I'm all ears, Bogative and lionking. What should be done about it?
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

2nd May 2023, 06:22 AM	#18
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,987	Originally Posted by Bogative You are correct. Thank you for being one of the few members of this board who has the integrity to say so. Well yes, the systemic racism still present in the US which ensures the black population has far less access to education, healthcare, social security and steady well paying jobs does create an underclass and coupled with the US gun culture that does create a lot of shootings. If there were less guns, there would be less shootings. But I agree with Bogative that the other social issues should be solved. Though that would require a form of government intervention the US also does not seem to want.

2nd May 2023, 06:25 AM	#19
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,607	Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser Well yes, the systemic racism still present in the US which ensures the black population has far less access to education, healthcare, social security and steady well paying jobs does create an underclass and coupled with the US gun culture that does create a lot of shootings. If there were less guns, there would be less shootings. But I agree with Bogative that the other social issues should be solved. Though that would require a form of government intervention the US also does not seem to want. Does anyone not think there are multiple inputs into the problems? A major one is systemic racism over generations and of course the old perennial: poverty.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

2nd May 2023, 06:26 AM	#20
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,607	Originally Posted by Bogative I disagree, it has multiple gun cultures. For example, my gun culture involves one .357 revolver for the extremely rare chance of home intruders. It was fired a handful of times when it was first purchased 15 years ago, it has been secured away since. I also have a .22 revolver that is 12 years old and has never been fired. It was purchased after a family pet was gravely wounded and I wanted to end its suffering as soon as possible. A .357 was a little too drastic for the family pet. In fact, I did not need to purchase the second revolver because I had a .22 rifle that was given to me decades ago that I forgot I had stored away. Loitering in front of a convenience store with my homies and shooting a pregnant woman, who is of no physical threat, so I can still her car, is a completely different gun culture. All stems from the silliness of number 2.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

2nd May 2023, 06:29 AM	#21
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 53,479	Originally Posted by angrysoba I'm all ears, Bogative and lionking. What should be done about it? You first. All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions. What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

2nd May 2023, 06:37 AM	#22
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,983	I'm curious to know if Bogative has a solution or punishment for Black gang gun offenders that differs from non-Black gang gun offenders.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

2nd May 2023, 06:40 AM	#23
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 34,399	Originally Posted by lionking You first. All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions. What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”. You see, I don't think that is a good way to address a problem. Heavy-handed hints that there's a problem with the blacks and something must be done but I can't think what.... whistles innocently Anyway, as you and Bogative want something to be done, but won't say what, I decided to look up the question. Let's get started with this, which comes from Gabby Giffords's website on a page called Gun Violence in Black Communities... Quote: Evidence-based gun safety laws can help address the epidemic of gun violence in Black communities. Recent research has found that specific policies, like waiting periods,50 firearm licensing laws,51 and strong public carry laws52 all reduce homicides in Black communities. Importantly, many of these policies enjoy strong support from Black Americans. A poll of Black Americans and Black gun owners found that these groups support a number of gun safety laws, in many cases at higher rates than white Americans and white gun owners.53 These policy reforms must also be coupled with direct investments in community-led violence intervention programs. Community violence intervention programs engage individuals at highest risk of being victims or perpetrators—or both—of violence through a variety of strategies including building relationships and providing supportive social services, addressing conflict through nonviolent means like de-escalation and mediation, and working to support community healing from violence. At their core, these programs directly invest in communities and the people in them, with many programs helping to address systemic inequalities by meeting the economic, educational, health, and social needs of the participants and their families. Many communities have been employing these strategies for years, but dedicated, stable investments are needed to scale and sustain these programs. Link I suppose the tl;dr is some combination of gun control and social programmes. Do you agree with this? If not, then I think the onus is now on both of you to come up with your own ideas.
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

2nd May 2023, 06:41 AM	#24
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,987	Originally Posted by Darat Does anyone not think there are multiple inputs into the problems? A major one is systemic racism over generations and of course the old perennial: poverty. Interestingly, here in the Netherlands the non-white population tends to be poorer too. And yes, part of that is racism, though less than the US, but without the US gun culture the random mass shootings just do not seem to happen. It's almost as if a country flush with guns will tend to have lots of random shootings.

2nd May 2023, 07:18 AM	#25
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	Originally Posted by Bogative I disagree, it has multiple gun cultures. For example, my gun culture involves one .357 revolver for the extremely rare chance of home intruders. It was fired a handful of times when it was first purchased 15 years ago, it has been secured away since. I also have a .22 revolver that is 12 years old and has never been fired. It was purchased after a family pet was gravely wounded and I wanted to end its suffering as soon as possible. A .357 was a little too drastic for the family pet. In fact, I did not need to purchase the second revolver because I had a .22 rifle that was given to me decades ago that I forgot I had stored away. In the UK, we have people called "veterinary surgeons" who we pay to put loved pets out of their suffering. They use a combination of chemicals to ensure the act is as painless as possible. I don't see why you needed a buy a gun for your pet. If you couldn't take it to the vet, you could have used a kitchen knife. That wouldn't have involved the delay caused by going to the store to get yourself a gun. Quote: Loitering in front of a convenience store with my homies and shooting a pregnant woman, who is of no physical threat, so I can still her car, is a completely different gun culture. No it isn't. You owning a gun is not a culture. It's part of a culture and the fact that you can't see the connection between you thinking it is normal to buy a gun just so you can put your pet down and people using guns in robberies and all the other violent deaths and injuries is all part of the problem with American gun culture.

2nd May 2023, 07:28 AM	#26
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,607	Originally Posted by lionking You first. All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions. What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”. 1 - it very well could be - and yes that would be damn hard 2 - I don't think anyone who tries to be constructive believes that the USA should go from a very lax gun control country to one with less guns than the UK. Also is it disproportionate? What is the rate for non-black people in the same conditions, it may not being black that causes the problem....
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

2nd May 2023, 07:43 AM	#27
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,393	Originally Posted by angrysoba I'm all ears, Bogative and lionking. What should be done about it? I asked Bog that in the other thread. So far, he's bravely kept silent.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

2nd May 2023, 07:45 AM	#28
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 14,447	Originally Posted by Bogative 25-year-old Brittany Rich rolls up to a convenience store in her beat up 2010 Dodge Avenger. She heads into the store to make a purchase, possibly Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea, media has not clarified as of yet, before exiting the store. Once outside the store, a "man" snatches her car keys out of her hand. She follows him around to the side of her car and tries to take her keys back. He shoots her 7 times, once in the stomach, killing her unborn child. Police are still searching for 3 subjects, no descriptions given, but 3 black males can be seen in security video participating in this crime. Brittany Rich is white. Ms. Rich has not been invited to the White House as far as I'm aware. Video of the shooting captured in broad daylight can be found in the news report. https://www.wral.com/carjackers-shoo...hild/20712593/ Pardon me for asking a dense question, but are you aware that this horrible incident happened 09 FEB 2023?
	__________________ On 29JUL2022, 'Gaetan' said: "We all know here that the moderators are for the use of firearms and they don't mind if some people recieve a bullet in their head." A man's best friend is his dogma.

2nd May 2023, 07:45 AM	#29
attempt5001 Muse Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 785	Originally Posted by lionking You first. All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions. What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”. I'm always a bit baffled by the general line of reasoning that says "gun violence is a complicated problem, so there's no sense getting rid of guns". Doesn't a multi-facetted problem require a multi-facetted solution? Certainly some of the issues are highly complex and rooted in historical and on-going racial and cultural inequity. Other issues, such as the number and accessibility of guns, are more simple. It's hard for me to understand why someone wouldn't advocate to taking all available measures, both simple and short-term as well as complicated and long-term solutions, to try to reduce the number of firearm related deaths. I would think a "leave no stone unturned" approach would be the most appropriate response. From what I can understand, this reasoning is trumped in many people's minds (most notably in America, but I see it in Canada as well), by an inflated sense of loss of personal freedom, and/or an extreme fear that a disarmed society will be quickly subjected to tyrannical government rule. I find this very strange and very sad considering the actual current reality is so many people being shot and killed.

2nd May 2023, 07:49 AM	#30
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	Originally Posted by angrysoba I'm all ears, Bogative and lionking. What should be done about it? How about admitting and acknowledging the problem to start? We can't even do that without leftists crying racism and shutting the conversation down.
Bogative Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 2,350	__________________ "We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” – Joe Biden October 24, 2020

2nd May 2023, 07:50 AM	#31
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser Interestingly, here in the Netherlands the non-white population tends to be poorer too. And yes, part of that is racism, though less than the US, but without the US gun culture the random mass shootings just do not seem to happen. It's almost as if a country flush with guns will tend to have lots of random shootings. Its my belief that if the UK, Germany, France most other EU nations were supplied with all the guns that the USA has they would still lag far behind in their rate of deadly violence. Why? I believe they deal much better with socioeconomic inequality and mental health than we do. Basically we are a nation of mentally ill malcontent sociopaths.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

2nd May 2023, 08:13 AM	#32
mumblethrax Species traitor Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 3,576	There's a pretty clear pattern here. Worthy topics raised in bad faith don't merit a response.

2nd May 2023, 08:18 AM	#33
Parsman Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bonnie Scotland Posts: 947	Originally Posted by lionking You first. All I said is that the discussion is worthwhile, I didn’t say I had solutions. What isn’t much of a solution to disproportionate black gun violence is to simply say “get rid of guns in the US”. You don't get rid of guns but you regulate them more effectively and stringently. For example you can own a gun here in the UK but it is heavily regulated. You are making a strawman argument
	__________________ I was not; I have been; I am not; I am content - Epicurus When you're dead you don't know that you're dead, all the pain is felt by others....................the same thing happens when you're stupid.

2nd May 2023, 09:22 AM	#34
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: In the Troll Ignoring Section Posts: 22,626	Originally Posted by Bogative I disagree, it has multiple gun cultures. For example, my gun culture involves one .357 revolver for the extremely rare chance of home intruders. It was fired a handful of times when it was first purchased 15 years ago, it has been secured away since. I also have a .22 revolver that is 12 years old and has never been fired. It was purchased after a family pet was gravely wounded and I wanted to end its suffering as soon as possible. A .357 was a little too drastic for the family pet. In fact, I did not need to purchase the second revolver because I had a .22 rifle that was given to me decades ago that I forgot I had stored away. Loitering in front of a convenience store with my homies and shooting a pregnant woman, who is of no physical threat, so I can still her car, is a completely different gun culture. From what you describe, your situation is not part of a gun culture. You have a couple guns laying around, apparently packed away and not even ready for daily use. That's worlds away from regularly carrying a loaded one around for whatever reasons. Like, I have a variety of knives for different uses, but it isn't reasonable to say I am part of a knife culture unless I am carrying a K-bar at the hip daily, and a large part of my life revolves around it .
	__________________ "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet

2nd May 2023, 09:30 AM	#35
BrettM Scholar Join Date: Jun 2022 Posts: 107	Let's talk about the feasibility of disarming the U.S. denizens. It actually requires a two tier approach. 1. Rigidly control the manufacture and sale of all new firearms. This requires new legislation and active policing to make it work. Believe it or not, this is the easy bit. 2. Remove and destroy most of the firearms in circulation. You have to do both. If you don't, they will just find their way back into the hands of killers. Any ideas how to achieve this?
BrettM Scholar Join Date: Jun 2022 Posts: 107