[Continuation] The Russian invasion of Ukraine part 7

theprestige · 1st May 2023, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by steenkh

Perhaps we could discuss the lack of an Ukrainian offensive instead indulging in disgusting fantasies?

The way I see it, we're just killing time while we wait for the counteroffensive to kick off.

But if you want to discuss the conflagration in Sevastopol, the Ukrainians building miniaturized V-1s with improved pulse-jets and modern guidance systems, or the depth and extent of Moscow fortifications in and around Ukraine, all those topics are yours for the discussing. Just type the words and press "Submit".

continued from

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=362264

Posted By:jimbob

Jimbo07 · 1st May 2023, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by steenkh

Perhaps we could discuss the lack of an Ukrainian offensive instead indulging in disgusting fantasies?

What lack of an Ukrainian offensive? Did they mention a date to you that they neglected to tell me? Just wondering...

crescent · 1st May 2023, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by steenkh

Perhaps we could discuss the lack of an Ukrainian offensive instead indulging in disgusting fantasies?

Originally Posted by Jimbo07

What lack of an Ukrainian offensive? Did they mention a date to you that they neglected to tell me? Just wondering...

I gather it is still muddy.

Ukraine will do it when Ukraine does it. But it seems logical to wait for the mud season to end. The tweetstream I linked to suggests that the mud is worse than normal this year and is extending later into spring that most years.

pzkpfw · 1st May 2023, 01:52 PM

There also has to be some calculation of how long to wait for all/more of the donated equipment to arrive and be ready (trained crews, logistics, etc).

(Broadly ...) e.g. Rush in Leopards piecemeal vs wait too long and the Russians get too prepared.

Some sources claim the counteroffensive has already started, kind of a "soft launch"; either way they seem to be getting ready.

theprestige · 1st May 2023, 01:59 PM

There was a report a few months back that Ukrainian officers were meeting with NATO officers in Germany to game out various scenarios. I'm pretty confident that Ukraine is already conducting operations to "shape" the battlefield for further operations.

arthwollipot · 1st May 2023, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

The appeal to international law is a red herring, though. The only thing that matters in this is the laws and customs of whichever country has jurisdiction. Right now it's Moscow's laws and customs. I don't see that changing, but arth is welcome to give it a go if he thinks "international law" should take precedence. Personally, I'd settle for Ukrainian law. But I'd also settle for someone just barging into his office and shooting him in the face.

To be clear, I am referring to an International War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague.

You know, like the one Saddam should have got but didn't.

Lukraak_Sisser · 1st May 2023, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

To be clear, I am referring to an International War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague.

You know, like the one Saddam should have got but didn't.

Given how Putin is actively sheltering war criminals from that same tribunal and that Russia, like the US, the Philippines and Sudan withdrew its membership from that body (Iraq never even joined at all) I do feel that is not as guaranteed.

Though I agree with earlier posters that by the time Russia will need to make such a decision Putin will have fallen from a window / been hit by a freak car / has retired to a nice country house out of all communication.

arthwollipot · 1st May 2023, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Given how Putin is actively sheltering war criminals from that same tribunal and that Russia, like the US, the Philippines and Sudan withdrew its membership from that body (Iraq never even joined at all) I do feel that is not as guaranteed.

Though I agree with earlier posters that by the time Russia will need to make such a decision Putin will have fallen from a window / been hit by a freak car / has retired to a nice country house out of all communication.

I can't disagree with either statement. While I would like to see Putin come to trial for his crimes, I can't say that I expect that it will ever actually happen.

The Don · 1st May 2023, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I can't disagree with either statement. While I would like to see Putin come to trial for his crimes, I can't say that I expect that it will ever actually happen.

I agree. Bringing the leaders of large and important countries to justice sends a dangerous precedent.

The US president or other Western leader could find themselves in the same situation if the tide of international opinion were to suddenly turn.

arthwollipot · 1st May 2023, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

I agree. Bringing the leaders of large and important countries to justice sends a dangerous precedent.

The US president or other Western leader could find themselves in the same situation if the tide of international opinion were to suddenly turn.

Indeed.

Mike! · 2nd May 2023, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by CNN

A former US Marine, Cooper “Harris” Andrews, 26, was killed on the outskirts of Bakhmut late last week, according to his mother and colleagues in Ukraine.

Quote:

Andrews worked for an activist group known as the Resistance Committee, according to their social media statements. They said he was killed assisting the evacuation of civilians from the city. Andrews left Cleveland, Ohio in November and joined the Foreign Legion in Ukraine, a group of foreign fighters helping the Ukrainian military. His contract ended in March, Mrs. Andrews said, and he decided to stay on.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/01/europ...ntl/index.html

jeremyp · 2nd May 2023, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/01/europ...ntl/index.html

Sorry to pick on you, because you are not the first person to memorialise an individual on a thread like this. In fact, I've probably done it myself.

I find it interesting that we do this. Hundreds of people are dying in Ukraine every day because of this war. Why is one non-Ukrainian worthy of highlighting in this thread?

Reformed Offlian · 2nd May 2023, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Sorry to pick on you, because you are not the first person to memorialise an individual on a thread like this. In fact, I've probably done it myself.

I find it interesting that we do this. Hundreds of people are dying in Ukraine every day because of this war. Why is one non-Ukrainian worthy of highlighting in this thread?

Because, for most people, putting a face and a name on a tragedy makes it more emotionally compelling. There is a saying attributed to Stalin that, when one person dies, it is a tragedy; when a million people die, it's a statistic. Human interest stories like this keep the numbers from just being numbers.

Mike! · 2nd May 2023, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Sorry to pick on you, because you are not the first person to memorialise an individual on a thread like this. In fact, I've probably done it myself.

I find it interesting that we do this. Hundreds of people are dying in Ukraine every day because of this war. Why is one non-Ukrainian worthy of highlighting in this thread?

I don't think of it as "memorialise", but I felt it was worth noting an American volunteered to serve in Ukraine when there's a fair percentage of Americans not even supporting the war, and made the ultimate sacrifice rather than return to the relative safety of home. YMMV, of course.

theprestige · 2nd May 2023, 09:42 AM

Wait until you find out about the Russian legion fighting for Ukraine.

dudalb · 2nd May 2023, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I expect it's all moot when it comes to Putin. He'll shoot himself if a coup reaches him, he's not Saddam Hussein.

Maybe while biting a cynide capsule at the same time.

a_unique_person · 2nd May 2023, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Sorry to pick on you, because you are not the first person to memorialise an individual on a thread like this. In fact, I've probably done it myself.

I find it interesting that we do this. Hundreds of people are dying in Ukraine every day because of this war. Why is one non-Ukrainian worthy of highlighting in this thread?

For Ukrainians there is no choice of being a part of the war. To choose to risk your life is of note.

Ian Osborne · 3rd May 2023, 05:21 AM

Breaking news: Russia reports a drone attack on the Kremlin. They're calling it a terrorist attack, and claim it was an attempt on Putin's life. Considering early in the war the Orcs were trying to kill Zelensky, that's very cheeky of them.

Mike! · 3rd May 2023, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne

Breaking news: Russia reports a drone attack on the Kremlin. They're calling it a terrorist attack, and claim it was an attempt on Putin's life. Considering early in the war the Orcs were trying to kill Zelensky, that's very cheeky of them.

From the story...

Quote:

The Kremlin also noted the incident had come shortly before Russia's 9 May Victory Day parade, which foreign dignitaries were expected to attend.

Who? From where? Why?

Lplus · 3rd May 2023, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mike!

From the story...

Who? From where? Why?

North Korea?
Venezuela?

Hercules Rockefeller · 3rd May 2023, 06:50 AM

The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire...

Dr.Sid · 3rd May 2023, 07:01 AM

Makes little sense as attack on Putin. Damaged roof during the parade could be nice touch though. Also it seems to explode near the flag when it flies by .. it's not a direct hit. Damage to the roof (or even the flag) seem to be minimal. Might be the plan. Might be failure to achieve it.
The drone looks pretty large. Not 400km range large though.
Either way, people responsible for the parade security won't sleep well this week.

Steve · 3rd May 2023, 07:33 AM

If this one small drone serves to interfere in some noticeable way with the May 9th events then the propaganda benefits are well worth while.

Shrinker · 3rd May 2023, 07:59 AM

There seem to be two people dressed in white climbing up the dome as the drone explodes. An odd coincidence or were they expecting to catch it?

Steve · 3rd May 2023, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Shrinker

There seem to be two people dressed in white climbing up the dome as the drone explodes. An odd coincidence or were they expecting to catch it?

Surely this vid wasn't staged? Or photoshopped? Those honest and self-respecting Russians would not do such a thing, would they?

Jack by the hedge · 3rd May 2023, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Shrinker

There seem to be two people dressed in white climbing up the dome as the drone explodes. An odd coincidence or were they expecting to catch it?

Ooh yeah. I hadn't noticed. That must have been a nasty surprise.

Lukraak_Sisser · 3rd May 2023, 08:21 AM

How dare those dastardly Ukrainians attack poor innocent Putin.
Why, innocent civilians might be hurt. And given how Glorious Mother Russia is only attacking military targets in a clean police operation....

Seriously though, I doubt the intended target was Putler himself, but it does show that the Russian capital might not be as much out of the firing line as propaganda suggests.
I suspect it will not help with the image of an all mighty leader that is broadcast on Russian tv.

JoeMorgue · 3rd May 2023, 08:34 AM

A commentator once opined that while the loss of life from the Twin Towers was of course far more of a major issue, the hit on the Pentagon, while having a much lower causality count, was far more worrisome in a pure strategic sense because when the enemy hits your castle keep, the strategic hold, where you keep the big players, that means something. In the military it's the difference between a "hard" and a "soft" target.

Maybe something psychologically similar to that is in play here. A modern warfare counting coup, a "I can get to you if I try" message.

theprestige · 3rd May 2023, 08:36 AM

Meanwhile, use this helpful graphic to visualize Moscow's progress in the occupation of Ukraine. The investment of Bakhmut is highlighted to give a sense of the scale of Moscow's success.

Dr.Sid · 3rd May 2023, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Shrinker

There seem to be two people dressed in white climbing up the dome as the drone explodes. An odd coincidence or were they expecting to catch it?

Also note it's hand held camera, and it was published by Russia.

jimbob · 3rd May 2023, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Also note it's hand held camera, and it was published by Russia.

I heard on the World Service that a US official suggested taking it with "a shaker of salt"

Dr.Sid · 3rd May 2023, 10:01 AM

Maybe they want to cancel the parade after all ? With all those tribunes already built ?

Jack by the hedge · 3rd May 2023, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Also note it's hand held camera, and it was published by Russia.

Being handheld clearly invites suspicion. Do we actually know which side published it first?

Dr.Sid · 3rd May 2023, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

Being handheld clearly invites suspicion. Do we actually know which side published it first?

Ukranian side didn't publish it at all, they deny any responsibility.

SpitfireIX · 3rd May 2023, 10:27 AM

Maybe it was a hologram.

Steve · 3rd May 2023, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Also note it's hand held camera, and it was published by Russia.

Almost like the camera person was waiting for it.

Shrinker · 3rd May 2023, 11:08 AM

I disagree on the handheld bit, I think that motion is the result of somebody filming it off a computer monitor.

Jack by the hedge · 3rd May 2023, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Shrinker

I disagree on the handheld bit, I think that motion is the result of somebody filming it off a computer monitor.

Yes, that's feasible. There are reflections toward the right hand side which I thought were because the video was taken through a window, but they could also be reflections on a monitor screen.

theprestige · 3rd May 2023, 11:40 AM

If it was taken through a window, it would have been an office in the (closed) GUM shopping mall, apparently. Just some dude sitting up there after hours, idly filming the incomplete parade setup across the way.

Garrison · 3rd May 2023, 11:47 AM

It doesn't look it gets anywhere near the dome and it could just be small drone with a pyrotechnic charge inside. If it did actually start a fire, well it wouldn't be the first time some Russian stunt went wrong.

1st May 2023, 12:23 PM	#2
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,410	Originally Posted by steenkh Perhaps we could discuss the lack of an Ukrainian offensive instead indulging in disgusting fantasies? What lack of an Ukrainian offensive? Did they mention a date to you that they neglected to tell me? Just wondering...
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 4,410	__________________ This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group. Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key

1st May 2023, 12:43 PM	#3
crescent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,388	Originally Posted by steenkh Perhaps we could discuss the lack of an Ukrainian offensive instead indulging in disgusting fantasies? Originally Posted by Jimbo07 What lack of an Ukrainian offensive? Did they mention a date to you that they neglected to tell me? Just wondering... I gather it is still muddy. Ukraine will do it when Ukraine does it. But it seems logical to wait for the mud season to end. The tweetstream I linked to suggests that the mud is worse than normal this year and is extending later into spring that most years.
	Last edited by crescent; 1st May 2023 at 12:47 PM.

1st May 2023, 01:52 PM	#4
pzkpfw Thinker Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 187	There also has to be some calculation of how long to wait for all/more of the donated equipment to arrive and be ready (trained crews, logistics, etc). (Broadly ...) e.g. Rush in Leopards piecemeal vs wait too long and the Russians get too prepared. Some sources claim the counteroffensive has already started, kind of a "soft launch"; either way they seem to be getting ready.
pzkpfw Thinker Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 187

1st May 2023, 01:59 PM	#5
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 64,327	There was a report a few months back that Ukrainian officers were meeting with NATO officers in Germany to game out various scenarios. I'm pretty confident that Ukraine is already conducting operations to "shape" the battlefield for further operations.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

1st May 2023, 07:55 PM	#6
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,095	Originally Posted by theprestige The appeal to international law is a red herring, though. The only thing that matters in this is the laws and customs of whichever country has jurisdiction. Right now it's Moscow's laws and customs. I don't see that changing, but arth is welcome to give it a go if he thinks "international law" should take precedence. Personally, I'd settle for Ukrainian law. But I'd also settle for someone just barging into his office and shooting him in the face. To be clear, I am referring to an International War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague. You know, like the one Saddam should have got but didn't.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

1st May 2023, 09:26 PM	#7
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,987	Originally Posted by arthwollipot To be clear, I am referring to an International War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague. You know, like the one Saddam should have got but didn't. Given how Putin is actively sheltering war criminals from that same tribunal and that Russia, like the US, the Philippines and Sudan withdrew its membership from that body (Iraq never even joined at all) I do feel that is not as guaranteed. Though I agree with earlier posters that by the time Russia will need to make such a decision Putin will have fallen from a window / been hit by a freak car / has retired to a nice country house out of all communication.

1st May 2023, 09:27 PM	#8
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,095	Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser Given how Putin is actively sheltering war criminals from that same tribunal and that Russia, like the US, the Philippines and Sudan withdrew its membership from that body (Iraq never even joined at all) I do feel that is not as guaranteed. Though I agree with earlier posters that by the time Russia will need to make such a decision Putin will have fallen from a window / been hit by a freak car / has retired to a nice country house out of all communication. I can't disagree with either statement. While I would like to see Putin come to trial for his crimes, I can't say that I expect that it will ever actually happen.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

1st May 2023, 11:08 PM	#9
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,615	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I can't disagree with either statement. While I would like to see Putin come to trial for his crimes, I can't say that I expect that it will ever actually happen. I agree. Bringing the leaders of large and important countries to justice sends a dangerous precedent. The US president or other Western leader could find themselves in the same situation if the tide of international opinion were to suddenly turn.

1st May 2023, 11:17 PM	#10
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 82,095	Originally Posted by The Don I agree. Bringing the leaders of large and important countries to justice sends a dangerous precedent. The US president or other Western leader could find themselves in the same situation if the tide of international opinion were to suddenly turn. Indeed.
	__________________ Слава Україні! Героям Слава! 20220224 - 20230224

2nd May 2023, 04:26 AM	#11
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 50,202	Originally Posted by CNN A former US Marine, Cooper “Harris” Andrews, 26, was killed on the outskirts of Bakhmut late last week, according to his mother and colleagues in Ukraine. Quote: Andrews worked for an activist group known as the Resistance Committee, according to their social media statements. They said he was killed assisting the evacuation of civilians from the city. Andrews left Cleveland, Ohio in November and joined the Foreign Legion in Ukraine, a group of foreign fighters helping the Ukrainian military. His contract ended in March, Mrs. Andrews said, and he decided to stay on. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/01/europ...ntl/index.html
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes." Last edited by Mike!; 2nd May 2023 at 04:28 AM.

2nd May 2023, 07:03 AM	#12
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	Originally Posted by Mike! https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/01/europ...ntl/index.html Sorry to pick on you, because you are not the first person to memorialise an individual on a thread like this. In fact, I've probably done it myself. I find it interesting that we do this. Hundreds of people are dying in Ukraine every day because of this war. Why is one non-Ukrainian worthy of highlighting in this thread?

2nd May 2023, 07:41 AM	#13
Reformed Offlian Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: USA Posts: 1,109	Originally Posted by jeremyp Sorry to pick on you, because you are not the first person to memorialise an individual on a thread like this. In fact, I've probably done it myself. I find it interesting that we do this. Hundreds of people are dying in Ukraine every day because of this war. Why is one non-Ukrainian worthy of highlighting in this thread? Because, for most people, putting a face and a name on a tragedy makes it more emotionally compelling. There is a saying attributed to Stalin that, when one person dies, it is a tragedy; when a million people die, it's a statistic. Human interest stories like this keep the numbers from just being numbers.

2nd May 2023, 09:30 AM	#14
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 50,202	Originally Posted by jeremyp Sorry to pick on you, because you are not the first person to memorialise an individual on a thread like this. In fact, I've probably done it myself. I find it interesting that we do this. Hundreds of people are dying in Ukraine every day because of this war. Why is one non-Ukrainian worthy of highlighting in this thread? I don't think of it as "memorialise", but I felt it was worth noting an American volunteered to serve in Ukraine when there's a fair percentage of Americans not even supporting the war, and made the ultimate sacrifice rather than return to the relative safety of home. YMMV, of course.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

2nd May 2023, 09:42 AM	#15
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 64,327	Wait until you find out about the Russian legion fighting for Ukraine.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

2nd May 2023, 02:52 PM	#16
dudalb Suspended Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 58,604	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I expect it's all moot when it comes to Putin. He'll shoot himself if a coup reaches him, he's not Saddam Hussein. Maybe while biting a cynide capsule at the same time.

2nd May 2023, 10:26 PM	#17
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 45,256	Originally Posted by jeremyp Sorry to pick on you, because you are not the first person to memorialise an individual on a thread like this. In fact, I've probably done it myself. I find it interesting that we do this. Hundreds of people are dying in Ukraine every day because of this war. Why is one non-Ukrainian worthy of highlighting in this thread? For Ukrainians there is no choice of being a part of the war. To choose to risk your life is of note.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

3rd May 2023, 05:21 AM	#18
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,677	Breaking news: Russia reports a drone attack on the Kremlin. They're calling it a terrorist attack, and claim it was an attempt on Putin's life. Considering early in the war the Orcs were trying to kill Zelensky, that's very cheeky of them.
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

3rd May 2023, 05:56 AM	#19
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 50,202	Originally Posted by Ian Osborne Breaking news: Russia reports a drone attack on the Kremlin. They're calling it a terrorist attack, and claim it was an attempt on Putin's life. Considering early in the war the Orcs were trying to kill Zelensky, that's very cheeky of them. From the story... Quote: The Kremlin also noted the incident had come shortly before Russia's 9 May Victory Day parade, which foreign dignitaries were expected to attend. Who? From where? Why?
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

3rd May 2023, 06:47 AM	#20
Lplus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,725	Originally Posted by Mike! From the story... Who? From where? Why? North Korea? Venezuela?
Lplus Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,725

3rd May 2023, 06:50 AM	#21
Hercules Rockefeller Woof! Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,013	The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire...
	__________________ Quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason. Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war! - Deepak Chopra

3rd May 2023, 07:01 AM	#22
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 4,128	Makes little sense as attack on Putin. Damaged roof during the parade could be nice touch though. Also it seems to explode near the flag when it flies by .. it's not a direct hit. Damage to the roof (or even the flag) seem to be minimal. Might be the plan. Might be failure to achieve it. The drone looks pretty large. Not 400km range large though. Either way, people responsible for the parade security won't sleep well this week.

3rd May 2023, 07:33 AM	#23
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 12,610	If this one small drone serves to interfere in some noticeable way with the May 9th events then the propaganda benefits are well worth while.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

3rd May 2023, 07:59 AM	#24
Shrinker Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,185	There seem to be two people dressed in white climbing up the dome as the drone explodes. An odd coincidence or were they expecting to catch it?

3rd May 2023, 08:07 AM	#25
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 12,610	Originally Posted by Shrinker There seem to be two people dressed in white climbing up the dome as the drone explodes. An odd coincidence or were they expecting to catch it? Surely this vid wasn't staged? Or photoshopped? Those honest and self-respecting Russians would not do such a thing, would they?
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

3rd May 2023, 08:14 AM	#26
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by Shrinker There seem to be two people dressed in white climbing up the dome as the drone explodes. An odd coincidence or were they expecting to catch it? Ooh yeah. I hadn't noticed. That must have been a nasty surprise.

3rd May 2023, 08:21 AM	#27
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,987	How dare those dastardly Ukrainians attack poor innocent Putin. Why, innocent civilians might be hurt. And given how Glorious Mother Russia is only attacking military targets in a clean police operation.... Seriously though, I doubt the intended target was Putler himself, but it does show that the Russian capital might not be as much out of the firing line as propaganda suggests. I suspect it will not help with the image of an all mighty leader that is broadcast on Russian tv.

3rd May 2023, 08:34 AM	#28
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	A commentator once opined that while the loss of life from the Twin Towers was of course far more of a major issue, the hit on the Pentagon, while having a much lower causality count, was far more worrisome in a pure strategic sense because when the enemy hits your castle keep, the strategic hold, where you keep the big players, that means something. In the military it's the difference between a "hard" and a "soft" target. Maybe something psychologically similar to that is in play here. A modern warfare counting coup, a "I can get to you if I try" message.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

3rd May 2023, 09:55 AM	#30
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 4,128	Originally Posted by Shrinker There seem to be two people dressed in white climbing up the dome as the drone explodes. An odd coincidence or were they expecting to catch it? Also note it's hand held camera, and it was published by Russia.

3rd May 2023, 09:58 AM	#31
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 30,065	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid Also note it's hand held camera, and it was published by Russia. I heard on the World Service that a US official suggested taking it with "a shaker of salt"
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

3rd May 2023, 10:01 AM	#32
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 4,128	Maybe they want to cancel the parade after all ? With all those tribunes already built ?

3rd May 2023, 10:06 AM	#33
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid Also note it's hand held camera, and it was published by Russia. Being handheld clearly invites suspicion. Do we actually know which side published it first?

3rd May 2023, 10:21 AM	#34
Dr.Sid Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic Posts: 4,128	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge Being handheld clearly invites suspicion. Do we actually know which side published it first? Ukranian side didn't publish it at all, they deny any responsibility.

3rd May 2023, 10:27 AM	#35
SpitfireIX Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Location: Niceville, Florida, USA Posts: 5,785	Maybe it was a hologram.
	__________________ "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz

3rd May 2023, 10:35 AM	#36
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 12,610	Originally Posted by Dr.Sid Also note it's hand held camera, and it was published by Russia. Almost like the camera person was waiting for it.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

3rd May 2023, 11:08 AM	#37
Shrinker Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,185	I disagree on the handheld bit, I think that motion is the result of somebody filming it off a computer monitor.