How do we reduce mass-shootings? - Page 5

Darat · 9th May 2023, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

...snip...

I don't see guns themselves having the same thriving black market if banned. Some would want them and even be willing to pay high prices for them, but I can't imagine the demand being similar to that of narcotics.

We know this empirically - look at the black market in the UK for guns. It exists and it is used but then look at the percentage of crime involving a firearm. The highest profile - homicide by a firearm - has when I had a quick look run at a rate of about 5% of the total number of homicides every year for the last ten years.

Susheel · 9th May 2023, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

We know this empirically - look at the black market in the UK for guns. It exists and it is used but then look at the percentage of crime involving a firearm. The highest profile - homicide by a firearm - has when I had a quick look run at a rate of about 5% of the total number of homicides every year for the last ten years.

Also I think the legal ramifications of someone revealed to possess an illegal firearm would also be quite severe.

Nessie · 9th May 2023, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

And as I have said many times before, as long as everybody says it'll never be done, it'll never be done.

That is the major reason why it will never be done. There are far too many Americans who are determined it never will be done.

jeremyp · 9th May 2023, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Nessie

That is the major reason why it will never be done. There are far too many Americans who are determined it never will be done.

Even some who are nominally in favour of gun control.

The measures suggested in the OP of this thread are inadequate, but they are at least a start.

TurkeysGhost · 9th May 2023, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

Even some who are nominally in favour of gun control.

The measures suggested in the OP of this thread are inadequate, but they are at least a start.

Sometimes a half measure gets half the impact and are worth trying. When it comes to doing anything about mass shootings, the commonly suggested half-measures have almost no impact. Directing public outrage towards pointless solutions is squandering opportunity and is probably worse than doing nothing.

A bunch of states are pushing for assault weapons bans, for example. Maybe the next mall slaying will be done with a rifle with no flash hider or with a pump action shotgun. I don't see how that's a meaningful improvement.

erwinl · 9th May 2023, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

Sometimes a half measure gets half the impact and are worth trying. When it comes to doing anything about mass shootings, the commonly suggested half-measures have almost no impact. Directing public outrage towards pointless solutions is squandering opportunity and is probably worse than doing nothing.

A bunch of states are pushing for assault weapons bans, for example. Maybe the next mall slaying will be done with a rifle with no flash hider or with a pump action shotgun. I don't see how that's a meaningful improvement.

And thus nothing should be attempted?

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by erwinl

And thus nothing should be attempted?

Is it really worth it to try to pass a bill that everyone knows will never make it to law?

Seems a better idea to try to win back Congress first. Then you can pass all the bills you want. If they have the courage.

TurkeysGhost · 9th May 2023, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by erwinl

And thus nothing should be attempted?

No, an actual ban should be the goal. Wishful thinking and AWBs that somehow solve the problem while skirting the fact that guns are a third rail in American politics is not a useful exercise.

jeremyp · 9th May 2023, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

Sometimes a half measure gets half the impact and are worth trying. When it comes to doing anything about mass shootings, the commonly suggested half-measures have almost no impact. Directing public outrage towards pointless solutions is squandering opportunity and is probably worse than doing nothing.

How do you know a measure doesn't work unless you try it?

Quote:

A bunch of states are pushing for assault weapons bans, for example. Maybe the next mall slaying will be done with a rifle with no flash hider or with a pump action shotgun. I don't see how that's a meaningful improvement.

The OP is not advocating an assault weapon ban.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

How do you know a measure doesn't work unless you try it?

The OP is not advocating an assault weapon ban.

I dont think banning all semi-auto rifles and shotguns and confiscating existing ones would work, and would likely lead to widespread resistance by state and local authorities and possibly violence.

The Don · 9th May 2023, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

I dont think banning all semi-auto rifles and shotguns and confiscating existing ones would work, and would likely lead to widespread resistance by state and local authorities and possibly violence.

Well nearly 50,000 a year are already being killed in the US by firearms so any such violence is likely to be barely a rounding error in that depressing total.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 08:49 AM

Yes if we don't let children keep getting gunned down in the street their might be violence.

That's a perfectly logical and reasonable and not insane concern.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Well nearly 50,000 a year are already being killed in the US by firearms so any such violence is likely to be barely a rounding error in that depressing total.

Ok then go for it!!!! I for one will NOT be handing in my semi-auto shotgun. I lost it I tell ya, just vanished.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 08:50 AM

"Don't do anything to make it better because you'll just make it worse" - People who don't really want it to get better.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yes if we don't let children keep getting gunned down in the street their might be violence.

That's a perfectly logical and reasonable and not insane concern.

Yes, think about the poor wee children!!!!

(Argument ad Liberi)

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 08:51 AM

"We can't do X because someone is going to react badly to it?"
"Is that person who is going to react badly to it... you?"
"Tee hee... I'll never tell."

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"Don't do anything to make it better because you'll just make it worse" - People who don't really want it to get better.

Sorry if Im just being practical & realistic about this issue. Or would you prefer I succumb to fantasy wishful thinking?

Whatever bro.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Yes, think about the poor wee children!!!!

(Argument ad Liberi)

Yes because not wanting children to be murdered is just playing the "Won't somebody think of the children" card.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Sorry if Im just being practical & realistic about this issue. Or would you prefer I succumb to fantasy wishful thinking?

You do want ever you want. Nobody is allowed to disagree with you.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yes because not wanting children to be murdered is just playing the "Won't somebody think of the children" card.

So only children count? Murdered adults dont count?

#Sad

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

You do want ever you want. Nobody is allowed to disagree with you.

Silly absurd strawman. Unworthy of response.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

So only children count? Murdered adults dont count?

#Sad

Yes. That's a totally reasonable takeaway.

Nessie · 9th May 2023, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

Sometimes a half measure gets half the impact and are worth trying. When it comes to doing anything about mass shootings, the commonly suggested half-measures have almost no impact. Directing public outrage towards pointless solutions is squandering opportunity and is probably worse than doing nothing.

A bunch of states are pushing for assault weapons bans, for example. Maybe the next mall slaying will be done with a rifle with no flash hider or with a pump action shotgun. I don't see how that's a meaningful improvement.

Or with a gun bought in another state, or illegally.

One of the reasons why the UK has few problems, is because all the surrounding countries also have good gun control. Unless every state gets its act together, the US will always run into problems with the easy availability of guns nearby. A bunch of states acting, is not enough.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 09:01 AM

That's why the excuse of "But there's shootings in da blue states too!" thing is so hollow.

The Don · 9th May 2023, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Ok then go for it!!!! I for one will NOT be handing in my semi-auto shotgun. I lost it I tell ya, just vanished.

...and in due course, with sufficient enforcement, you'll be brought to justice.

TurkeysGhost · 9th May 2023, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Ok then go for it!!!! I for one will NOT be handing in my semi-auto shotgun. I lost it I tell ya, just vanished.

You burying it in your flower garden has about the same practical effect as surrendering it to the state. A ban would mean even people who didn't comply would be aware that any public use of the banned firearm would result in criminal conviction.

Right wingers hiding their guns under their floorboards waiting for ~~the day of the rope~~ their chance to fight tyranny would still mean a massive reduction guns available for day to day criminal use.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

You burying it in your flower garden has about the same practical effect as surrendering it to the state. A ban would mean even people who didn't comply would be aware that any public use of the banned firearm would result in criminal conviction.

Right wingers hiding their guns under their floorboards waiting for ~~the day of the rope~~ their chance to fight tyranny would still mean a massive reduction guns available for day to day criminal use.

Nationwide law banning all semi-auto guns has zero hope of passing. Would be killed by the courts.

TurkeysGhost · 9th May 2023, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Nationwide law banning all semi-auto guns has zero hope of passing. Would be killed by the courts.

We've already covered this, you and I.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost

We've already covered this, you and I.

It has a even smaller chance of being enforced by state and local authorities.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 10:13 AM

So to sum up.

"We will never pass gun laws because people will just not let us oh and by the way when I say 'people' I mean me."

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So to sum up.

"We will never pass gun laws because people will just not let us oh and by the way when I say 'people' I mean me."

AWB died in 2004. 19 years to pass a new REAL one, never happened. Tell us why? Oh, right, let's not discuss any of the political realities that exist today. Cuz they just get in the way.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 10:42 AM

You are trying to boost up the mythology that pro-gun people are some unstoppable force in an attempt to make actually trying to do something sound hopeless.

The vast majority of Americans support stricter gun laws. This is one of those "facts" we have to completely ignore for your narrative to work.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

You are trying to boost up the mythology that pro-gun people are some unstoppable force in an attempt to make actually trying to do something sound hopeless.

The vast majority of Americans support stricter gun laws. This is one of those "facts" we have to completely ignore for your narrative to work.

Tell us again why no meaningful gun laws have passed since 2004.

Don't worry, I'll wait.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Tell us again why no meaningful gun laws have passed since 2004.

Don't worry, I'll wait.

Because the people you support lied and cheated their way power beyond what they deserve. This can be fixed. This can be changed.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Because the people you support lied and cheated their way power beyond what they deserve. This can be fixed. This can be changed.

I dont support the GOP, Im a registered Democrat and only vote Blue in national elections.

Stop making this personal. I won't address this again.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

I dont support the GOP...

And I stopped listening at that point.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 10:49 AM

So back to reality.

Americans don't want a mass shooting every day and in no sane world should this be a controversial statement. Every other country 9and sidenote we can stop the mythology that America is the only country with right winged extremism or religious extremism, if every other can do we can just stop the lie that it's totally and forever impossible in America) has stopped with some form of gun ownership restriction and they haven't fallen into tyranny.

There is nothing to discuss here. There's just people who see a mass shooting a day as acceptable and those who don't. End of story.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 10:50 AM

Anyways, let's talk about laws that actually have a chance of passing!!!! And laws that will actually make a difference.

Lots more funding for mental health services, lots more red flag laws. Looks like laws moving minimum age for AWs to 21 may be gaining traction in Texas. We could also add a new 7 day waiting period for all gun purchases.

JoeMorgue · 9th May 2023, 10:51 AM

The myth that it's a mental health problem and not a gun problem is a Republican lie. Unless you want to explain how other countries don't have mental health problems.

Hercules56 · 9th May 2023, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The myth that it's a mental health problem and not a gun problem is a Republican lie...

Right, cuz all these mass-shooters are mentally healthy and treatment could not have stopped their carnage.

9th May 2023, 05:20 AM	#161
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 109,607	Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost ...snip... I don't see guns themselves having the same thriving black market if banned. Some would want them and even be willing to pay high prices for them, but I can't imagine the demand being similar to that of narcotics. We know this empirically - look at the black market in the UK for guns. It exists and it is used but then look at the percentage of crime involving a firearm. The highest profile - homicide by a firearm - has when I had a quick look run at a rate of about 5% of the total number of homicides every year for the last ten years.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

9th May 2023, 05:27 AM	#162
Susheel Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 3,183	Originally Posted by Darat We know this empirically - look at the black market in the UK for guns. It exists and it is used but then look at the percentage of crime involving a firearm. The highest profile - homicide by a firearm - has when I had a quick look run at a rate of about 5% of the total number of homicides every year for the last ten years. Also I think the legal ramifications of someone revealed to possess an illegal firearm would also be quite severe.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

9th May 2023, 06:24 AM	#163
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14,758	Originally Posted by arthwollipot And as I have said many times before, as long as everybody says it'll never be done, it'll never be done. That is the major reason why it will never be done. There are far too many Americans who are determined it never will be done.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

9th May 2023, 06:37 AM	#165
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,634	Originally Posted by jeremyp Even some who are nominally in favour of gun control. The measures suggested in the OP of this thread are inadequate, but they are at least a start. Sometimes a half measure gets half the impact and are worth trying. When it comes to doing anything about mass shootings, the commonly suggested half-measures have almost no impact. Directing public outrage towards pointless solutions is squandering opportunity and is probably worse than doing nothing. A bunch of states are pushing for assault weapons bans, for example. Maybe the next mall slaying will be done with a rifle with no flash hider or with a pump action shotgun. I don't see how that's a meaningful improvement.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

9th May 2023, 06:45 AM	#166
erwinl Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,493	Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost Sometimes a half measure gets half the impact and are worth trying. When it comes to doing anything about mass shootings, the commonly suggested half-measures have almost no impact. Directing public outrage towards pointless solutions is squandering opportunity and is probably worse than doing nothing. A bunch of states are pushing for assault weapons bans, for example. Maybe the next mall slaying will be done with a rifle with no flash hider or with a pump action shotgun. I don't see how that's a meaningful improvement. And thus nothing should be attempted?
erwinl Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,493	__________________ Bow before your king Member of the "Zombie Misheard Lyrics Support Group"

9th May 2023, 06:34 AM	#164
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	Originally Posted by Nessie That is the major reason why it will never be done. There are far too many Americans who are determined it never will be done. Even some who are nominally in favour of gun control. The measures suggested in the OP of this thread are inadequate, but they are at least a start.

9th May 2023, 07:16 AM	#167
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by erwinl And thus nothing should be attempted? Is it really worth it to try to pass a bill that everyone knows will never make it to law? Seems a better idea to try to win back Congress first. Then you can pass all the bills you want. If they have the courage.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 07:26 AM	#168
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,634	Originally Posted by erwinl And thus nothing should be attempted? No, an actual ban should be the goal. Wishful thinking and AWBs that somehow solve the problem while skirting the fact that guns are a third rail in American politics is not a useful exercise.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

9th May 2023, 08:18 AM	#169
jeremyp Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 2,801	Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost Sometimes a half measure gets half the impact and are worth trying. When it comes to doing anything about mass shootings, the commonly suggested half-measures have almost no impact. Directing public outrage towards pointless solutions is squandering opportunity and is probably worse than doing nothing. How do you know a measure doesn't work unless you try it? Quote: A bunch of states are pushing for assault weapons bans, for example. Maybe the next mall slaying will be done with a rifle with no flash hider or with a pump action shotgun. I don't see how that's a meaningful improvement. The OP is not advocating an assault weapon ban.

9th May 2023, 08:41 AM	#170
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by jeremyp How do you know a measure doesn't work unless you try it? The OP is not advocating an assault weapon ban. I dont think banning all semi-auto rifles and shotguns and confiscating existing ones would work, and would likely lead to widespread resistance by state and local authorities and possibly violence.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 08:47 AM	#171
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,615	Originally Posted by Hercules56 I dont think banning all semi-auto rifles and shotguns and confiscating existing ones would work, and would likely lead to widespread resistance by state and local authorities and possibly violence. Well nearly 50,000 a year are already being killed in the US by firearms so any such violence is likely to be barely a rounding error in that depressing total.

9th May 2023, 08:49 AM	#172
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Yes if we don't let children keep getting gunned down in the street their might be violence. That's a perfectly logical and reasonable and not insane concern.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 08:49 AM	#173
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by The Don Well nearly 50,000 a year are already being killed in the US by firearms so any such violence is likely to be barely a rounding error in that depressing total. Ok then go for it!!!! I for one will NOT be handing in my semi-auto shotgun. I lost it I tell ya, just vanished.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 08:50 AM	#174
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	"Don't do anything to make it better because you'll just make it worse" - People who don't really want it to get better.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 08:51 AM	#175
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Yes if we don't let children keep getting gunned down in the street their might be violence. That's a perfectly logical and reasonable and not insane concern. Yes, think about the poor wee children!!!! (Argument ad Liberi)
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 08:51 AM	#176
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	"We can't do X because someone is going to react badly to it?" "Is that person who is going to react badly to it... you?" "Tee hee... I'll never tell."
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 08:52 AM	#177
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue "Don't do anything to make it better because you'll just make it worse" - People who don't really want it to get better. Sorry if Im just being practical & realistic about this issue. Or would you prefer I succumb to fantasy wishful thinking? Whatever bro.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 08:53 AM	#178
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Yes, think about the poor wee children!!!! (Argument ad Liberi) Yes because not wanting children to be murdered is just playing the "Won't somebody think of the children" card.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 08:53 AM	#179
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Sorry if Im just being practical & realistic about this issue. Or would you prefer I succumb to fantasy wishful thinking? You do want ever you want. Nobody is allowed to disagree with you.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 08:54 AM	#180
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Yes because not wanting children to be murdered is just playing the "Won't somebody think of the children" card. So only children count? Murdered adults dont count? #Sad
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 08:55 AM	#181
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue You do want ever you want. Nobody is allowed to disagree with you. Silly absurd strawman. Unworthy of response.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 08:55 AM	#182
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Originally Posted by Hercules56 So only children count? Murdered adults dont count? #Sad Yes. That's a totally reasonable takeaway.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 08:59 AM	#183
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 14,758	Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost Sometimes a half measure gets half the impact and are worth trying. When it comes to doing anything about mass shootings, the commonly suggested half-measures have almost no impact. Directing public outrage towards pointless solutions is squandering opportunity and is probably worse than doing nothing. A bunch of states are pushing for assault weapons bans, for example. Maybe the next mall slaying will be done with a rifle with no flash hider or with a pump action shotgun. I don't see how that's a meaningful improvement. Or with a gun bought in another state, or illegally. One of the reasons why the UK has few problems, is because all the surrounding countries also have good gun control. Unless every state gets its act together, the US will always run into problems with the easy availability of guns nearby. A bunch of states acting, is not enough.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

9th May 2023, 09:01 AM	#184
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	That's why the excuse of "But there's shootings in da blue states too!" thing is so hollow.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 09:49 AM	#185
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 36,615	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Ok then go for it!!!! I for one will NOT be handing in my semi-auto shotgun. I lost it I tell ya, just vanished. ...and in due course, with sufficient enforcement, you'll be brought to justice.

9th May 2023, 10:00 AM	#186
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,634	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Ok then go for it!!!! I for one will NOT be handing in my semi-auto shotgun. I lost it I tell ya, just vanished. You burying it in your flower garden has about the same practical effect as surrendering it to the state. A ban would mean even people who didn't comply would be aware that any public use of the banned firearm would result in criminal conviction. Right wingers hiding their guns under their floorboards waiting for ~~the day of the rope~~ their chance to fight tyranny would still mean a massive reduction guns available for day to day criminal use.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 9th May 2023 at 10:02 AM.

9th May 2023, 10:06 AM	#187
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost You burying it in your flower garden has about the same practical effect as surrendering it to the state. A ban would mean even people who didn't comply would be aware that any public use of the banned firearm would result in criminal conviction. Right wingers hiding their guns under their floorboards waiting for ~~the day of the rope~~ their chance to fight tyranny would still mean a massive reduction guns available for day to day criminal use. Nationwide law banning all semi-auto guns has zero hope of passing. Would be killed by the courts.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 10:09 AM	#188
TurkeysGhost Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 31,634	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Nationwide law banning all semi-auto guns has zero hope of passing. Would be killed by the courts. We've already covered this, you and I.
	__________________ Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

9th May 2023, 10:11 AM	#189
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by TurkeysGhost We've already covered this, you and I. It has a even smaller chance of being enforced by state and local authorities.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 10:13 AM	#190
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	So to sum up. "We will never pass gun laws because people will just not let us oh and by the way when I say 'people' I mean me."
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 10:41 AM	#191
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So to sum up. "We will never pass gun laws because people will just not let us oh and by the way when I say 'people' I mean me." AWB died in 2004. 19 years to pass a new REAL one, never happened. Tell us why? Oh, right, let's not discuss any of the political realities that exist today. Cuz they just get in the way.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685

9th May 2023, 10:42 AM	#192
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	You are trying to boost up the mythology that pro-gun people are some unstoppable force in an attempt to make actually trying to do something sound hopeless. The vast majority of Americans support stricter gun laws. This is one of those "facts" we have to completely ignore for your narrative to work.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 10:43 AM	#193
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue You are trying to boost up the mythology that pro-gun people are some unstoppable force in an attempt to make actually trying to do something sound hopeless. The vast majority of Americans support stricter gun laws. This is one of those "facts" we have to completely ignore for your narrative to work. Tell us again why no meaningful gun laws have passed since 2004. Don't worry, I'll wait.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."

9th May 2023, 10:44 AM	#194
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 44,114	Originally Posted by Hercules56 Tell us again why no meaningful gun laws have passed since 2004. Don't worry, I'll wait. Because the people you support lied and cheated their way power beyond what they deserve. This can be fixed. This can be changed.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th May 2023, 10:45 AM	#195
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Because the people you support lied and cheated their way power beyond what they deserve. This can be fixed. This can be changed. I dont support the GOP, Im a registered Democrat and only vote Blue in national elections. Stop making this personal. I won't address this again.
Hercules56 Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 4,685	__________________ theliberalgunclub.com "The mission of The Liberal Gun Club is to provide a pro-Second Amendment voice for left-of-center gun owners in the national conversations on firearms."