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Old 9th May 2023, 10:59 AM   #201
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Then I'm sure you'd be both able to and happy to explain what mental health treatment policy every other country in the world has so they don't have a mass shooting everyday.

Please, explain it. We'll wait.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:04 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Then I'm sure you'd be both able to and happy to explain what mental health treatment policy every other country in the world has so they don't have a mass shooting everyday.

Please, explain it. We'll wait.
The vast majority of mass-shootings in the USA (4 or more people shot in same event) are criminal/gang related events. The random mass-shootings at malls, supermarkets, stores, schools, happen much less often than every day. And most of THOSE shootings involved people with untreated or poorly treated mental illness. You can deny this fact all you like but it won't go away.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:05 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The vast majority of mass-shootings in the USA (4 or more people shot in same event) are criminal/gang related events. The random mass-shootings at malls, supermarkets, stores, schools, happen much less than once a day. And most of THOSE shootings involved people with untreated or poorly treated mental illness. You can deny this fact all you like but it won't go away.
I'll ask again.

Why does this variable not exist in literally any other country?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:08 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'll ask again.

Why does this variable not exist in literally any other country?
There are currently 60 nations that have a higher murder rate than the USA. Ours is 6.4 per 100,000, Jamaica is 44.7 per 100,000.

Maybe you need to look at the bigger picture about crime and safety across the world.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:10 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
There are currently 60 nations that have a higher murder rate than the USA. Ours is 6.4 per 100,000, Jamaica is 44.7 per 100,000.

Maybe you need to look at the bigger picture about crime and safety across the world.
I'll ask again.

What variable makes it so only the US has a mass shooting on average of once a day.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:11 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Nationwide law banning all semi-auto guns has zero hope of passing. Would be killed by the courts.
Rapid fire multiple shot weapons make mass shootings easier and more deadly.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:13 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'll ask again.

What variable makes it so only the US has a mass shooting on average of once a day.
The once a day mass shootings are crime/gang related. You can start with that.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:14 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Rapid fire multiple shot weapons make mass shootings easier and more deadly.
We agree.

But outright banning them would violate the 2A.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:15 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The once a day mass shootings are crime/gang related. You can start with that.
Are you claiming only American has gangs? Because... damn.

I will ask again, now for the 5th time.

What variable does only America have that causes a mass shooting once a day?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:19 AM   #210
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https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting

Here is a pretty database of mass-shootings in the USA.

Almost all crime/gang related.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:20 AM   #211
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1. Do something being "gang related" mean it's not a problem?
2. Are you ever going to answer my question?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:23 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Are you claiming only American has gangs? Because... damn.

I will ask again, now for the 5th time.

What variable does only America have that causes a mass shooting once a day?
Hmm, notice how from the mass-shootings database most states in the USA have NO mass-shootings, at all. And yet the USA has lots of guns in every state. How can this be? How can it be that Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Ohio, Michigan, North Dakota, Alaska, and lots of other states seem to go for months on end, YEARS on end, without a mass-shooting???

How how how?????

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Old 9th May 2023, 11:25 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Hmm, notice how from the mass-shootings database most states in the USA have NO mass-shootings, at all. And yet the USA has lots of guns in every state. How can this be? How can it be that Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Ohio, Michigan, North Dakota, Alaska, and lots of other states seem to go for months on end, YEARS on end, without a mass-shooting???

How how how?????

I will ask again, now for the 6th time.

What variable does only America have that causes a mass shooting once a day?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:27 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I will ask again, now for the 6th time.

What variable does only America have that causes a mass shooting once a day?
I'd like to know how its possible that SOOO many states of our Blessed Union almost never see a mass-shooting. Daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. Many states have nothing. Zilcho. Nada.

Looks like many states of the USA have the same rate of mass shootings as the rest of the world. Which is few to none.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:27 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I'd like to know how its possible that SOOO many states of our Blessed Union almost never see a mass-shooting. Daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. Many states have nothing. Zilcho. Nada.

Looks like many states of the USA have the same rate of mass shootings as the rest of the world. Which is few to none.
I will ask again, now for the 7th time.

What variable does only America have that causes a mass shooting once a day?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:30 AM   #216
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Seems like based on the data, we need stronger gun laws on a more local level to stem mass-shootings. Many states in the USA have few to none of these events, while several states have a lot. Maybe we simply need stronger gun laws in the problem states and we can leave gun owners alone in the peaceful states.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:31 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Seems like based on the data, we need stronger gun laws on a more local level to stem mass-shootings. Many states in the USA have few to none of these events, while several states have a lot. Maybe we simply need stronger gun laws in the problem states and we can leave gun owners alone in the peaceful states.
You have already rejected all of that as impossible because the Republicans won't let it happen, it will cause a civil war, you'll bury your guns and wait for the takeover, whatever.

Do you have any solution you actually support?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:32 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
NZ Aus banned all but pest control style guns that farmers need.
Plus hunting and target weapons, around a million-and-a-half in total.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:33 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
End the fetishization of guns in the USA and then move on to discussing reasonable measures like background checks, restrictions on certain classes of firearm and requirements on proper storage and security.
Also stop the incorrect portrayal of crime rates and utility of firearms for self-defense.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:33 AM   #220
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Imagine trying to convince the public to give up cars. That is how likely successful gun control to virtually end mass shootings would be.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:34 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Hmm, notice how from the mass-shootings database most states in the USA have NO mass-shootings, at all. And yet the USA has lots of guns in every state. How can this be? How can it be that Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Ohio, Michigan, North Dakota, Alaska, and lots of other states seem to go for months on end, YEARS on end, without a mass-shooting???

How how how?????

Maine:
https://www.wabi.tv/2023/04/19/state...doin-yarmouth/

Michigan: https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...a/69946282007/

Ohio:
https://www.wifr.com/2023/01/15/poli...ber-cleveland/

Minn:
https://www.fox21online.com/2022/04/...HnSnxYra6Udp6k

(I picked ones that I'm pretty sure were not from youth gangs)

For the rest... gee I dunno their very low population makes it statistically probable that they go years without one.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:39 AM   #222
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The following states have the following gun ownership rates:

Delaware= 34%

Vermont=50%

Maine=47%

Alaska=64%

North Dakota=55%

Montana=66%

Nebraska=45%

Iowa=43%

South Dakota=55%

Kansas=49%

New Hampshire=41%

Idaho=60%

Wisconsin=45%

Oregon=50%

Oklahoma=54%

Michigan=40%

Utah=46%

Nevada=47%

New Mexico=46%

Minnesota=42%

Arkansas=47%

Wyoming=66%

Washington=42%

Arizona=46%




How is possible that ALL of these states, accounting for probably at least 100 million Americans, have few to no mass-shootings???? If a massive rate of gun ownership was the real problem here, wouldn't these states all at least have one mass-shooting a week? A month?

Something doesn't add up. Hmmmm.....

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/52/

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:43 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
We agree.

But outright banning them would violate the 2A.
Why doesn't the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 violate the 2A?

Why should a trifling feature like a selector switch prevent an AMERICAN from keeping and bearing a tommy gun? Why is it SOOOO important to regulate "destructive devices" SOOOO minutely that a simple 20 mm Oerlikon is forbidden to mount on your pickup?

Goddammit, why don't you love freedom?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:44 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Ok then go for it!!!! I for one will NOT be handing in my semi-auto shotgun. I lost it I tell ya, just vanished.

Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
AWB died in 2004. 19 years to pass a new REAL one, never happened. Tell us why? Oh, right, let's not discuss any of the political realities that exist today. Cuz they just get in the way.

Don't you see that you're part of the problem, you personally?

Don't blame it on some nebulous others, or by slipping into passive voice. It's you, and others like you, that are squarely to blame for these killings, by making it impossible for these dangerous playthings of overgrown children to be taken away from them.

Gun deaths can be reduced --- not eliminated, but reduced sharply --- by having the likes of you come to your senses, and behave reasonably.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:44 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Why doesn't the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 violate the 2A?

Why should a trifling feature like a selector switch prevent an AMERICAN from keeping and bearing a tommy gun? Why is it SOOOO important to regulate "destructive devices" SOOOO minutely that a simple 20 mm Oerlikon is forbidden to mount on your pickup?

Goddammit, why don't you love freedom?
Has the NFA ever faced the Supreme Court?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:44 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Ok then go for it!!!! I for one will NOT be handing in my semi-auto shotgun. I lost it I tell ya, just vanished.
If your soon to be illegal gun is properly registered as you advocated in the OP, you will either hand it in or serve a prison sentence for refusing to give it up.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:44 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
No system exists anywhere in the USA to do background checks for ammo sales.
But mandating identification for voting is easy....
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:45 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
If your soon to be illegal gun is properly registered as you advocated in the OP, you will either hand it in or serve a prison sentence for refusing to give it up.
My gun will never be deemed illegal.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:45 AM   #229
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The Republicans had no problem rounding up guns when the Black Panthers were hording them.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:46 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The Republicans had no problem rounding up guns when the Black Panthers were hording them.
I oppose open carry of any firearms, except by military or police.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:49 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I oppose open carry of any firearms, except by military or police.
Harry S Truman had no middle name, it was just the S.

Oh I'm sorry I thought you were challenging me to "The most pointless statement that has the least to do with what is being discussed" battle and I'm competitive by nature.

I didn't ******* ask what you think of something unrelated. I asked why if rounding up guns is so hard the Republicans can do it when they want to?
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:50 AM   #232
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Republicans really want to sell this idea that everything they have is impossible to ever change while everything the Left has can be taken away at a whim.

Roe V. Wade was just as settled as the Right's Interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. Spare me the "It can never happen" rhetoric.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:50 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
The following states have the following gun ownership rates:

Delaware= 34%

Vermont=50%

Maine=47%

Alaska=64%

North Dakota=55%

Montana=66%

Nebraska=45%

Iowa=43%

South Dakota=55%

Kansas=49%

New Hampshire=41%

Idaho=60%

Wisconsin=45%

Oregon=50%

Oklahoma=54%

Michigan=40%

Utah=46%

Nevada=47%

New Mexico=46%

Minnesota=42%

Arkansas=47%

Wyoming=66%

Washington=42%

Arizona=46%




How is possible that ALL of these states, accounting for probably at least 100 million Americans, have few to no mass-shootings???? If a massive rate of gun ownership was the real problem here, wouldn't these states all at least have one mass-shooting a week? A month?

Something doesn't add up. Hmmmm.....

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun...s-by-state/52/

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r.../mass-shooting
Totally and completely meaningless numbers.

From YOUR OWN LINK:

Most U.S. firearms go unregistered, so numbers are hard to come by. Still, there are windows into the world of gun ownership slices of data that offer pieces to the puzzle.

So... who knows if those figures are true or not.

Besides which gun ownership rates do not really matter when anyone go buy one at anytime, without any sort of check.

Also, you listed Nevada... the place where the worst mass shooting in the US ever occurred... and NM... sure we are really safe. Hardly any gun violence here... there was a drive by murder less than 100 feet from where I'm typing this, THIS year.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:52 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Harry S Truman had no middle name, it was just the S.

Oh I'm sorry I thought you were challenging me to "The most pointless statement that has the least to do with what is being discussed" battle and I'm competitive by nature.

I didn't ******* ask what you think of something unrelated. I asked why if rounding up guns is so hard the Republicans can do it when they want to?
When did the GOP pass a law making guns illegal and forced all citizens of a state or city turn them in, and if not the cops went looking for them?

BTW, if you tried that now in any state of the union there would be violence.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:54 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
BTW, if you tried that now in any state of the union there would be violence.
THERE'S A MASS SHOOTING EVERYDAY!

Take "ooooh but if you try to stop there will be violence oohhhh" and shove it.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:54 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Totally and completely meaningless numbers.

From YOUR OWN LINK:

Most U.S. firearms go unregistered, so numbers are hard to come by. Still, there are windows into the world of gun ownership — slices of data that offer pieces to the puzzle.

So... who knows if those figures are true or not.

Besides which gun ownership rates do not really matter when anyone go buy one at anytime, without any sort of check.

Also, you listed Nevada... the place where the worst mass shooting in the US ever occurred... and NM... sure we are really safe. Hardly any gun violence here... there was a drive by murder less than 100 feet from where I'm typing this, THIS year.
How many mass-shootings have there been in NV this week? This month? This year? Last year? Since 2019????

Anything? Huh, I guess Nevada is doing pretty darn good. So are lots of other states.

One mass-shooting a day? A week? A month? Not in most states of the Union.

Maybe we should focus our new gun rules on the problem states.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:55 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
THERE'S A MASS SHOOTING EVERYDAY!

Take "ooooh but if you try to stop there will be violence oohhhh" and shove it.

Not in most states of the Union, bro.

Maybe you should focus your anger on the problem states, and leave the peaceful states alone.
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Old 9th May 2023, 11:56 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Anyways, let's talk about laws that actually have a chance of passing!!!! And laws that will actually make a difference.

Lots more funding for mental health services, lots more red flag laws. Looks like laws moving minimum age for AWs to 21 may be gaining traction in Texas. We could also add a new 7 day waiting period for all gun purchases.
The USA is well known for two areas of total bonkersness. One is the inability to implement reasonable gun control and the other is the the inability to provide proper healthcare for its citizens. Proper funding for mental healthcare is about as likely to occur in the US as reasonable gun control.

There's another problem with the mental health issue: frequently, the first time we are aware that there is even a mental health issue is when the person shoots somebody with the gun they obtained legally. That somebody is most likely themself, but they are still dead.
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Old 9th May 2023, 12:01 PM   #239
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Its now very clear that MOST states in the USA don't have daily, weekly, monthly, even yearly mass-shootings. Those states are clearly not the problem, and many of them have high gun ownership rates and very loose gun laws.

Clearly we need to focus our energy on the states with lots of mass-shootings. California, Texas, FL, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, etc.
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Old 9th May 2023, 12:09 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
My gun will never be deemed illegal.
I expect a lot of people in the UK thought that before Michael Ryan started spraying bullets from his M1 carbine and his AK-47 look alike. There was no soul searching after that, or even thoughts and prayers: centre fire semi automatics were simply banned.

Once you get gun control in place in the USA and mass shootings become a rarity again, you'll have a mass shooting involving an AR-15 and the same thing will happen as happened in the UK. Or you won't have one which will be an even better outcome.
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