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Old Today, 02:19 PM   #1921
Giz
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
@Femi_Sorry (cold drink) and Ed Miliband (egg) are on the left. They both took the non harmful protests in their stride.
And If it became an organized campaign to disrupt and prevent them from canvassing? Would they still have just sucked it up?

Seriously, this is not a good road for a diverse functional democracy to go down.
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Old Today, 02:28 PM   #1922
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Yes, exactly.

We are seeing the psychological triumph of factionalism over universalism.
It boils down to "Free Speech For Me, But Not For Thee".
It will go from "White Nationalists " to "Reactionaries" to "Anybody who does not support the glorious People's Government".
Note how they hand wave away the "Slippery Slope" idea.
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Old Today, 02:29 PM   #1923
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
And If it became an organized campaign to disrupt and prevent them from canvassing? Would they still have just sucked it up?

Seriously, this is not a good road for a diverse functional democracy to go down.
Sad fact is the militant wings of both major US parties have pretty much thrown the idea of a diverse democracy out the window. Ideology over all.
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Old Today, 02:34 PM   #1924
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
And If it became an organized campaign to disrupt and prevent them from canvassing? Would they still have just sucked it up?

Seriously, this is not a good road for a diverse functional democracy to go down.
No it's not, but I still draw an important distinction between activities that are or aren't intended to cause actual physical harm which is the point I've been making.
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Old Today, 02:35 PM   #1925
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Sad fact is the militant wings of both major US parties have pretty much thrown the idea of a diverse democracy out the window. Ideology over all.
I just hope that the quiet bulk of the US population remains sane and can act as a calming influence on the forum fanatics


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Old Today, 02:37 PM   #1926
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
No it's not, but I still draw an important distinction between activities that are or aren't intended to cause actual physical harm which is the point I've been making.
Hand wave away the Ideologues getting in the way of democratic elections if you want.
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Old Today, 02:38 PM   #1927
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
@Femi_Sorry (cold drink) and Ed Miliband (egg) are on the left. They both took the non harmful protests in their stride.
John Prescott, not so much.

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Old Today, 02:38 PM   #1928
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post

Note how they hand wave away the "Slippery Slope" idea.
This is probably the most obnoxious part of it all. Their entire justification for political violence is based on a slippery slope argument.
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Old Today, 02:48 PM   #1929
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Sad fact is the militant wings of both major US parties have pretty much thrown the idea of a diverse democracy out the window. Ideology over all.
White supremacists with Nazi paraphernalia add a bit of colour to the downtown. Wouldn’t it be great if they would open restaurants where you could get culturally pure white European food, among Third Reich decor? Now that would be a real melting pot!
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Old Today, 02:54 PM   #1930
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
White supremacists with Nazi paraphernalia add a bit of colour to the downtown. Wouldn’t it be great if they would open restaurants where you could get culturally pure white European food, among Third Reich decor? Now that would be a real melting pot!
So now dudalb is a nazi?

How do we hail him? “Ein Reich, ein dudalb, ein yolk!” ?
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Old Today, 03:01 PM   #1931
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
White supremacists with Nazi paraphernalia add a bit of colour to the downtown. Wouldn’t it be great if they would open restaurants where you could get culturally pure white European food, among Third Reich decor? Now that would be a real melting pot!
"Nazis."
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Old Today, 03:09 PM   #1932
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Incorrect.
Then you don't know your history.

The Nazis came to power in a time of extraordinary violence between a number of political parties in the Weimar Republic. The violence played an integral part of their rise, and the violence of their rivals as well. That's in addition to the Republic being unable to do anything about it. There is no parallel, here, except YOUR willingness to engage in violence.

Quote:
No.
No what? No, you don't see a problem with it? Or no you don't think they would be justified?

Quote:
My focus has always been on white nationalism/supremacy as a whole. ETA: And I have plainly said so several times throughout this thread and others on this topic. There has been no "broadening" on my part.
The TOPIC is Nazis. You're calling all nationalists and supremacists Nazis, and I'm sure quite a bit more as well. That's broadening; perhaps not of your own argument, which wasn't what I said or meant, but of what's being discussed, which is what I predicted earlier in the thread.

Quote:
White nationalism led to the Holocaust.
Humanity led to the Holocaust. See, I can speak in very broad terms as well, ignore the immediate causes of the Nazi rise to power, and paint everyone I want with the same brush. Not useful, but if I'm a misanthrope, quite satisfying.
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Old Today, 03:16 PM   #1933
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Ideally, egg them sooner, so that things don't get to wholesale slaughter later.
Help me out, here: in what way will eggs stop the slaughter?

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It's a discussion of categories, not similarities. The proper response to either Robinson or Rubin is humiliation, rather than violence or indifference. Both are problems (where Dankula or whatever the US equivalent is), neither is anywhere near the Spencer level of organized murderous violence as far as I know.
Sorry, I don't know Rubin very well, but enough to ask why he needs to be humiliated.

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Done playing Sonic the Hedgehog?

Ready to act like an adult, or at least a reasonable child?
I don't think pretending that Nazis poised to take over the country and commit genocide are going to be defeated by lobbing eggs at them is being particularily mature.
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Old Today, 03:17 PM   #1934
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If you want to turn a country into an authoritarian state , seems to me that Vigilantism ie, allowing private citizens to take the law into their own hands, is a damn good way to do it.
In fact it's historically exactly how you do it.
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Old Today, 03:40 PM   #1935
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This is a non sequitur, because your average white nationalist is just as racist as the Nazis were. And no, you're not getting away with leaving out the "white" and trying to shift the focus to make it look like I'm attacking something different. This isn't about "rah rah Murica!"

It is a bog-standard racist myth that non-white immigrants are "taking all the jobs".
As adding "white" is pretending there are no non-white nationalists in the US
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Old Today, 05:35 PM   #1936
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
As adding "white" is pretending there are no non-white nationalists in the US
Under discussion: White Nationalists, Nazis, Klanners... generally, no, there are no non-whites in those groups. Feel free to start a thread about black or Asian-American or Latino/a Nationalists. Here, we're discussing Nazis, nazis, and No True Nazis.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old Today, 06:14 PM   #1937
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Under discussion: White Nationalists, Nazis, Klanners... generally, no, there are no non-whites in those groups. Feel free to start a thread about black or Asian-American or Latino/a Nationalists. Here, we're discussing Nazis, nazis, and No True Nazis.
I can't believe I have to say this but

There are also a lot of nationalists whose reasons aren't based on race

Some aren't even white

Plenty of Nationalists are nationalist because they have a fear of losing job opportunities

Some because they fear over population

Some because they think their religion might be taken over

Some because they just don't like outsiders

All just as irrational, but all have nothing to do with race
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; Today at 06:20 PM.
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Old Today, 08:10 PM   #1938
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I can't believe I have to say this but

There are also a lot of nationalists whose reasons aren't based on race

Some aren't even white

Plenty of Nationalists are nationalist because they have a fear of losing job opportunities

Some because they fear over population

Some because they think their religion might be taken over

Some because they just don't like outsiders

All just as irrational, but all have nothing to do with race
Go with your instincts. If you "can't believe" you have to say something, perhaps basing a lengthy post on your beliefs is not the way to go.

Is anyone denying that other forms of nationalism exist? We are discussing White Nationalists. Do you not understand that the adjective is what makes the phrase? That's why Checkmite voiced the opinion that you left out that important adjective. We are discussing one sort of nationalist. The bigoted type. Your introduction of "average nationalist" is not germane to the discussion.
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Old Today, 08:13 PM   #1939
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Go with your instincts. If you "can't believe" you have to say something, perhaps basing a lengthy post on your beliefs is not the way to go.



Is anyone denying that other forms of nationalism exist? We are discussing White Nationalists. Do you not understand that the adjective is what makes the phrase? That's why Checkmite voiced the opinion that you left out that important adjective. We are discussing one sort of nationalist. The bigoted type. Your introduction of "average nationalist" is not germane to the discussion.
Well then maybe you should say racist white nationalists

Because if any whites happen to fall into the other categories they are also white nationalists by pure defignition, No?

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Old Today, 08:27 PM   #1940
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Ah, yes. The rehabilitation of nationalism.
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Old Today, 08:37 PM   #1941
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well then maybe you should say racist white nationalists

Because if any whites happen to fall into the other categories they are also white nationalists by pure defignition, No?

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White Nationalists. Notice the upper case letters. Why is it that no one has any real problem with the terminology but you? Oh, you can't call them Nazis because True Nazis have to have been members of a party that was shut down in 1945. Well, nationalists could be anything....

The thread is about nazis. In the context of the thread, use of white nationalist or White Nationalist should not even be necessary. Introducing now, "some other kind of not-bigoted nationalist who just happens to be white" is sort of like discussing "other kinds of Nepalese insurgents who just happen to be Maoists, but aren't necessarily Maoist insurgents". Yeah, they might exist, but this seems to be the traditional pseudo skepticism dodge; arguing about the definitions to avoid the topic or to simply win a phase of the debate.
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Old Today, 08:48 PM   #1942
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Quibbling over precise technical definitions of words only distracts from the more important issues.
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Old Today, 09:16 PM   #1943
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Quibbling over precise technical definitions of words only distracts from the more important issues.
Fair point

Will shut up on that one

But they are still just idiot wannabe Nazis

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Old Today, 09:25 PM   #1944
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Ah, yes. The rehabilitation of nationalism.

That is the problem, and nobody wants to address it because nationalism is good - except that it isn't. Nationalism is the ideology that we, the billionaires as well as the homeless, those of us who belong to the same wonderful nation, have something other than a passport in common because of this alleged fellowship. The nation is supposed to be what helps us thrive in our pursuit of happiness so when we obviously don't, it must be something else, something unpatriotic, that prevents this nation of ours from being truly great. It no longer helps us succeed, so we have to take up the fight against the foreign elements that ruin this once great nation in order to make the nation great again.

And there are an awful lot of enemies out there: Who stole my job, for instance? Who now lives in the house that I ought to be living in? Well, it can't be the billionaires who laid me off or who foreclosed my house. First of all, billionaires live in mansions, not in houses like mine, and they are the ones that lend me the money that enables me to become a homeowner in the first place. And they don't lay me off. On the contrary, they create jobs. Except when they don't because they are either threatened by our common enemies, the Chinese, or employ bloody foreigners who weren't supposed to be here in the first place. But if a billionaire acts like that, he can't have been a true patriot. He is probably a stinking Jew.

So in order to make the nation great again, we have to close down the borders. The foreigners and their cheap products shouldn't be allowed entry into our fine nation. And if we could also eliminate the people of the wrong color, who obviously don't belong here, mission's accomplished.
Unemployment doesn't turn people into Nazis. Nationalism does.
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