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Tags Amy Adams , Ellie France , Mark Lundy , murder cases , New Zealand cases

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Old 11th May 2019, 11:40 AM   #1681
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it also winter when this happened? I don't know how bad roads in New Zealand get in winter, but here in Canada winter driving can be a lot different than summer.
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Old 11th May 2019, 12:22 PM   #1682
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The drive is not fine, it is impossible, Petone Palmerston North and back to Petone.
It's not just possible, but beatable. The guy who organised the non-starter of the Lundy Three Hundy has, I have, and I know other people who have. Excellent road, with parts you can do 200 kmh. Heck, I drove from Auckland to Wellington averaging over 60 mph, and that was before Hamilton's bypass was built, in a bloody Morris 1800.

Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The allegation I was referring to was the one with the 2 hours 51 minutes time window, which is so impossible as to be ludicrous. I don't think The Atheist could do that.
I have to be highly amused at someone sitting thousands of kilometres away, discussing a road they've never seen, let alone driven, is offering an opinion on what's possible on it.

It's one of the very fastest routes in the country, with enormous straights for a good portion of the way that can comfortably be driven at 200 kph or more.

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it also winter when this happened? I don't know how bad roads in New Zealand get in winter, but here in Canada winter driving can be a lot different than summer.
Not an issue - no ice anywhere near that part of the country.
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Old 11th May 2019, 01:11 PM   #1683
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Paul Bass

More from the same link: "No one who has tried to replicate the road trip – and many, including the police, have had a go – has come anywhere near doing it in the same time. The man who has taken the most trouble over it, private investigator Paul Bass, made the northbound trip three times by different routes at exactly the same time of day and year as Lundy allegedly did (see map) and couldn’t do it in less than an hour and 56 minutes – which would have left Lundy a physically impossible 55 minutes to commit the murders and get back to Petone." The article goes on to quote Paul Bass.

From Mike White's 2009 article (What the Jury Didn't Hear), "The defence employed former police detective and reconstruction expert Paul Bass, who made three trips north from Petone to near Lundy’s home at the same time Lundy would have been travelling, through rush hour. Bass’s quickest time was 1 hour 56 minutes, with an average speed of 77km/h. However, his evidence was challenged by Crown claims he didn’t use an identical car to Lundy’s – although his Nissan Skyline GTS is arguably quicker and more agile than Lundy’s Fairmont." I am not sure which model of the GTS Mr. Bass used, but the Skylines with which I am familiar are impressive in their performance, whereas the Ford Fairmont not so much.
ETA
He could have done the drive late at night. However to the best of my knowledge the prosecution did not dispute that Mr. Lundy had been drinking that night. Therefore, his driving might have been affected.
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Old 11th May 2019, 01:15 PM   #1684
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Despite all this the drive has been deemed impossible by everyone except you Atheist. If you read the link Chris posted an ex policeman could get nowhere near it.

"Bass had backed himself to match Lundy, too.

"Before I did this," he says, "I thought I would be able to do it. When I was given this task, I thought, right - no sweat. I've been in the police force, I've driven very, very fast over long periods of time, and I thought, yeah, I should be able to do that. I couldn't."

Anyone who regularly drives between Wellington and Palmerston North will tell you that it can be done a great deal faster than an hour and 50 minutes. Without even breaking the law, you can do it comfortably in an hour and a half. But not at rush-hour, when streams of cars clog the highway both ways as far north as Levin. Not on a weeknight between 5.38 (a cellphone call puts Lundy in Petone at this point) and 7.15pm (the latest time the murders could have been committed, according to analysis of the victims' stomach contents).

"I just don't know how he was able to make the trip as alleged, without people being on their cellphones pushing *555," says Bass. "Because you would have to be driving like an absolute lunatic. And you are going to bring an awful lot of attention to yourself. If your focus is to go and do something discreetly and give yourself an alibi, it doesn't make sense that you would then draw attention to yourself."
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Old 11th May 2019, 04:04 PM   #1685
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I haven't seen the road, obviously, but I know how the algorithms work and if the AA says an hour and 53 minutes then you're not going to get it below 90 minutes in the rush hour. And I know it's been tried again and again and nobody has succeeded.
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Old 11th May 2019, 07:44 PM   #1686
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I haven't seen the road, obviously, but I know how the algorithms work and if the AA says an hour and 53 minutes then you're not going to get it below 90 minutes in the rush hour. And I know it's been tried again and again and nobody has succeeded.
For what it's worth, Google puts the 146 km drive between the Foreshore Motor Lodge, Petone and Karamea Crescent, Palmerston North, with a departure time of 1:00 am, at "typically 2 hrs"

Yes, you could theoretically travel on the expressway out of Wellington up SH1 at 200 km/h, after midnight, if you wanted to risk it. Calling it "one of the very fastest routes in the country, with enormous straights for a good portion of the way that can comfortably be driven at 200 kph or more" is exaggeration. There are plenty of 50/70 kph limited sections up along the coast, three quarters of it is one lane in either direction, and he'd have to be trying this after midnight with poor street lighting in the rural sections.

Anyway, after midnight he can afford to take his time - somewhat. A night in the motel drinking half a bottle of rum, a rumble in the sheets with a prostitute at midnight, a 1:00 am departure with a 2 hour journey, two axe murders and a cleanup, disposal of the murder weapon, another 2 hour return journey back to the motel to greet the manager at 7:00 am, then heading out to see clients the next day, then another 2 hour trip back to PN with no sleep followed by police interviews, and no-one noticing any tiredness, seems...miraculous.

Last edited by Hard Cheese; 11th May 2019 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 11th May 2019, 08:17 PM   #1687
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Originally Posted by Hard Cheese View Post
Yes, you could theoretically travel on the expressway out of Wellington up SH1 at 200 km/h, after midnight, if you wanted to risk it. Calling it "one of the very fastest routes in the country, with enormous straights for a good portion of the way that can comfortably be driven at 200 kph or more" is exaggeration. There are plenty of 50/70 kph limited sections up along the coast, three quarters of it is one lane in either direction, and he'd have to be trying this after midnight with poor street lighting in the rural sections.
The 50/70 km areas hardly slow you down - in fact Levin can speed you up with a lovely wide stretch that allows you to whip around anyone slow.

I agree it would be pretty hard to do at 5:30 pm, but I couldn't rule out the possibility. Tuesday's often the quietest day on the road, and during August, could easily have coincided with a lot of people off work sick. All highly unlikely, but I used to drive that road daily only a few years before 2000 and there were days you could go like a bat out of hell. You never knew when they'd happen, but some evenings were like Sunday morning.

I'm down that way at Xmas - I'll put a trip on dashcam and hope like christ the pigs are all asleep when I do it.

Classic red herring.
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:15 AM   #1688
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Maybe we could crowdfund a small prize for anyone that can do it, at the right time of year and the right time of day.
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Old 12th May 2019, 02:10 PM   #1689
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Mark Lundy was sentenced to the minimum life sentence of 13 years initially by a judge with a university degree in mathematics, which is a very unusual qualification for a lawyer.

In summing up he said

"For prosecution to succeed, a 7pm time of death is essential. If you have a reasonable doubt about this, it is fatal to the prosecution case."

It is reasonable to infer he saw the case as nonsense but was bound by the jury decision.

The crown successfully argued for an increase to 17 years, then 20 with the failed appeal that followed.

Last edited by Samson; 12th May 2019 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 12th May 2019, 06:33 PM   #1690
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The crown successfully argued for an increase to 17 years, then 20 with the failed appeal that followed.
Given he won't admit guilt, he could be in for a lot longer.

I believe I've made the comment a few times about our justice system being broken. Probably needs a name change to "The Law System", because while it is law, it ain't justice.
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:03 PM   #1691
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Originally Posted by Hard Cheese View Post
Isn't that law just a specific restatement of defamation laws in general though? If I make an allegation against anyone, they're free to sue me for defamation and it's up to me to prove what I said is true. I wouldn't think calling a judge a liar was specific or defamatory enough - everyone lies at sometime in their life, so you could argue that a reasonable person would find that the accusation was probably true in the general sense.
'general sense' perhaps but that is not what Samson claims, he is very specific and accuses the Chief Justice of being a liar because he does not agree with various statements. And there you have it, a Chief Justice may well be wrong but not be lying. Samson wouldn't stand a chance and that he's chosen a 'backwater blog' or similar as someone described it earlier, might not convince a Jury that he didn't do that deliberately to have the opportunity to defame a person at length confident that he or she would not be detected.
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Old 12th May 2019, 09:20 PM   #1692
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Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
'general sense' perhaps but that is not what Samson claims, he is very specific and accuses the Chief Justice of being a liar because he does not agree with various statements. And there you have it, a Chief Justice may well be wrong but not be lying. Samson wouldn't stand a chance and that he's chosen a 'backwater blog' or similar as someone described it earlier, might not convince a Jury that he didn't do that deliberately to have the opportunity to defame a person at length confident that he or she would not be detected.
"Just the place for a Snark!" the Bellman cried,
As he landed his crew with care;
Supporting each man on the top of the tide
By a finger entwined in his hair.

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true."

She said three times she is sure Mark Lundy killed his family in a blood bath.
Why would I question the chief justice in her wisdom?
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Old 13th May 2019, 05:09 PM   #1693
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Originally Posted by Hard Cheese View Post
That seems dodgy, why would the police ever request evidence to be destroyed? If they were so confident of their case, they should have no fear of it ever being overturned. I would have thought the truth was more important than being right


Anyway, it seems like a no-brainer to test the hairs - assuming it could be done with some level of confidence that the results would be accurate and not affected by contamination after nearly 20 years. I take it because it is mitochondrial DNA rather than implicate it would eliminate, i.e. the hairs not being from Amber (although they could be Glenn Weggery's I guess) and assuming the mtDNA doesn't match Mark's, I can't see a reasonable explanation for how the hair got there other than there must have been a third party (or parties) involved.

Mitochondrial testing was the minimum. There may have been unofficial hair comparison tests but not by the hair expert. Mark supplied sample hairs to add to the samples taken from Amber and Christine.
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Old 13th May 2019, 10:45 PM   #1694
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Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
Mitochondrial testing was the minimum. There may have been unofficial hair comparison tests but not by the hair expert. Mark supplied sample hairs to add to the samples taken from Amber and Christine.
Do you mean mitochrondrial DNA testing was done, or are you agreeing that it should have been done? I understood that a full DNA profile required the root, but I didn't know they could get mtDNA from the hair shaft.

On one hand, Grantham is trawling the whole world looking for a lab that will agree to do IHC testing on the shirt tissue, but completely ignores scientific testing of the hairs. Another example of tunnel vision, only interested in inculpatory evidence, not exculpatory.

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Old 14th May 2019, 04:59 AM   #1695
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The silence of the lambs.
Only Rodney Hide has been a proper sheep.

"Justice demands that a couple of heads be rolled down Molesworth St. That that hasn't happened highlights that our justice system lacks its most crucial ingredient: justice.

The prosecution, on our behalf, used suspect evidence to convict Mark Lundy.

The police knew it was suspect but used it anyway. And worse, they kept it hidden that their own expert had questioned their evidence's validity.

Keeping that advice hidden was unlawful and cut across Lundy's right to a fair trial, and just process."

Jacinda Ardern launched Steve Braunias book after reading how Mark Lundy was innocent and went right ahead making Winkelmann chief justice as she was telling 3 times a falsehood.

Disgusting.
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Old 15th May 2019, 04:34 AM   #1696
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As Jacinda Arden struts the world stage she could not care less about one victim of her ambition. Nor could Winkelmann.
Rodney Hide and Deborah Coddington were approached when Act party were ascendant to take a stand.
Coddington said the political movement would be killed by aligning with Lundy.
Winkelmann and Ardern continue this diabollical laziness.

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Old 15th May 2019, 11:45 AM   #1697
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
As Jacinda Arden struts the world stage she could not care less about one victim of her ambition.
Mate, this is getting to the ridiculously stupid stage.

Jacinda has bigger fish to fry and it happened when she was a bloody teenager.

By all means, cry about Winkelman and the injustice of it all, but if there's one person whose fault Lundy's situation isn't, it's her.

Another point for you to consider:

Whether Lundy killed the pair or not - and I don't believe he did - if he'd been at home instead of in Petone banging a hooker, this situation wouldn't exist.
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Old 15th May 2019, 02:35 PM   #1698
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Mate, this is getting to the ridiculously stupid stage.

Jacinda has bigger fish to fry and it happened when she was a bloody teenager.

By all means, cry about Winkelman and the injustice of it all, but if there's one person whose fault Lundy's situation isn't, it's her.

Another point for you to consider:

Whether Lundy killed the pair or not - and I don't believe he did - if he'd been at home instead of in Petone banging a hooker, this situation wouldn't exist.
Politicians and media avoid the case like the plague and Ardern and Little are following the trend. She launched a book that attests he was innocent, so presumably read the 33% that is the Lundy case.
The chain of responsibility for the outrage passes right through her hands as she appoints one of the people paid to administer high end justice, and denying it to Lundy, to the position of chief justice. And Winkelmann was described as an ally by one of the case specialists who attended three days of the appeal.
There is a stench in the air.
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:27 PM   #1699
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Politicians and media avoid the case like the plague...
They do, but I suspect in your mind it's because they're all part of some grand conspiracy to keep Lundy inside.

In reality, it's because people don't want to hear it, won't read it, and won't watch it, unless it's an episode of Sensing Murder.

They'd do it, except they also know how deeply unpopular the idea of Lundy's innocence is. Like vaccines, you're not going to change perception with facts. If the legal routes don't work, he's going to die in jail.
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Old 15th May 2019, 11:32 PM   #1700
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Whether Lundy killed the pair or not - and I don't believe he did - if he'd been at home instead of in Petone banging a hooker, this situation wouldn't exist.
He'd also probably be dead, along with his wife and daughter. In jail for the rest of his life is marginally better.
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Old 15th May 2019, 11:36 PM   #1701
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
They'd do it, except they also know how deeply unpopular the idea of Lundy's innocence is. Like vaccines, you're not going to change perception with facts. If the legal routes don't work, he's going to die in jail.
A lot of people are village idiots (you can always tell one when they use "guilty as sin" when talking about the Lundy case) - even if they were shown CCTV footage of Lundy eating a burger at McDonalds at the time of the murders, they'd say "I still reckon he did it"
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Old 15th May 2019, 11:56 PM   #1702
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Originally Posted by Hard Cheese View Post
In jail for the rest of his life is marginally better.
I'd disagree - given his circumstances, I'd much rather be dead.
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Old 16th May 2019, 02:13 PM   #1703
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I'd disagree - given his circumstances, I'd much rather be dead.
There are plenty of cases showing no propensity for suicide when wrongly imprisoned, but rather a determination to fight for the truth for ever. One of the best reads is Damien Echols, Life after Death. 18 years on death row.
Mark Lundy is not considered guilty by his fellow inmates or prison guards, and is used for dispute resolution.
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Old 16th May 2019, 03:16 PM   #1704
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
There are plenty of cases showing no propensity for suicide when wrongly imprisoned, but rather a determination to fight for the truth for ever.
Those cases aren't me.

Also, even if Lundy does one day prove his innocence in court, the real killer will never be found and 99% of people will still think he's guilty.

You'd need to be a fundy christian like Lundy to think there was any point. The value of truth is $0.
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Old 19th May 2019, 04:35 PM   #1705
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You'd need to be a fundy christian like Lundy to think there was any point.
Yep, almost as pointless as posting about it on this forum.
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Old 19th May 2019, 05:47 PM   #1706
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Yep, almost as pointless as posting about it on this forum.
Dick comment, and completely wrong.

I was a firm believer in his guilt until I started discussing it here, and I've had to change my mind as a result of facts posted in the thread.

I'm sure I'm not the only one, and in a small country, even a small number of voices can sometimes be heard.
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Old 19th May 2019, 07:59 PM   #1707
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Originally Posted by Hard Cheese View Post
Do you mean mitochrondrial DNA testing was done, or are you agreeing that it should have been done? I understood that a full DNA profile required the root, but I didn't know they could get mtDNA from the hair shaft.

On one hand, Grantham is trawling the whole world looking for a lab that will agree to do IHC testing on the shirt tissue, but completely ignores scientific testing of the hairs. Another example of tunnel vision, only interested in inculpatory evidence, not exculpatory.

It should have been done, it would have excluded Lundy scientifically as being the donor of the hairs. mtDNA comes from the shaft of the hair. That is what was used in the Watson case a couple of years before Lundy. In that instance the Crown were able to say that it comes from the mother's maternal line and no one alive in the family that shared that line had been aboard the Blade.


One brown to red brown hair was found on Christine's right? buttock. The nuclear DNA test was not sucessful, but no mtDNA test was undertaken. For me that hair put a potential sexual attack motive in the picture. The examiner went in a round about way to eventually say that the hair was from the lower torso of the donor.


All police crime scene checks for homicides/serious assaults in modern police forces include fingernail DNA and crime scene hairs. A dead give away in this case was that the crime scene hairs were not tested for until approximately 9 months after the deaths and months after Lundy had been arrested, furthermore by that time 21 hairs taken from Christine's hands had been 'released' to Grantham never to be seen again. The prospect of finding the killer in this case is not remote, not be speculation of amatueur slueths, but by hereditary testing of mtDNA and nuclear DNA, some of which has happened in NZ already with a lot more in the States.
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Old 19th May 2019, 08:02 PM   #1708
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
They do, but I suspect in your mind it's because they're all part of some grand conspiracy to keep Lundy inside.

In reality, it's because people don't want to hear it, won't read it, and won't watch it, unless it's an episode of Sensing Murder.

They'd do it, except they also know how deeply unpopular the idea of Lundy's innocence is. Like vaccines, you're not going to change perception with facts. If the legal routes don't work, he's going to die in jail.

'Grand conspiracy' is a kind way of putting it.
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Old 19th May 2019, 09:32 PM   #1709
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Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
'Grand conspiracy' is a kind way of putting it.
Yes it is.
Try orchestrated litany of lies.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:37 AM   #1710
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Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
It should have been done, it would have excluded Lundy scientifically as being the donor of the hairs. mtDNA comes from the shaft of the hair. That is what was used in the Watson case a couple of years before Lundy. In that instance the Crown were able to say that it comes from the mother's maternal line and no one alive in the family that shared that line had been aboard the Blade.
I suppose given what happened with the hairs found on the Blade, it doesn't inspire much confidence even if they had tested them.

Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
One brown to red brown hair was found on Christine's right? buttock. The nuclear DNA test was not sucessful, but no mtDNA test was undertaken. For me that hair put a potential sexual attack motive in the picture. The examiner went in a round about way to eventually say that the hair was from the lower torso of the donor.
I wonder if they'd be able to match any of the hair DNA to the two DNA profiles found under her fingernails? That would give you an almost inarguable case for third party involvement.

Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
All police crime scene checks for homicides/serious assaults in modern police forces include fingernail DNA and crime scene hairs. A dead give away in this case was that the crime scene hairs were not tested for until approximately 9 months after the deaths and months after Lundy had been arrested, furthermore by that time 21 hairs taken from Christine's hands had been 'released' to Grantham never to be seen again.
So they no longer exist, unable to be retested?

Originally Posted by Fixit View Post
The prospect of finding the killer in this case is not remote, not be speculation of amatueur slueths, but by hereditary testing of mtDNA and nuclear DNA, some of which has happened in NZ already with a lot more in the States.
It would seem like a very obvious avenue to pursue. If I recall correctly there was a very large suspect list at one point, you'd be able to rule people in and out very easily.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 04:05 AM   #1711
Samson
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Here is the official transcript from the oral hearing.
It is really important to follow this, the case will flow like a river.

https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/the-c...undyvQueen.pdf

15 minutes to read, more to really understand.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 06:25 AM   #1712
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That's interesting that the NFI lab has been instrumental in sorting some of this out. I have been in contact with a forensic scientist at the NFI lab in connection with the Lockerbie investigation and I have a high opinion of their expertise.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 08:12 AM   #1713
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
As Jacinda Arden struts the world stage she could not care less about one victim of her ambition.
Oh good grief this is just pathetically silly.
In what way is Lundy a victim of Jacinda Arden's ambition?
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Old 22nd May 2019, 12:04 PM   #1714
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Oh good grief this is just pathetically silly.
In what way is Lundy a victim of Jacinda Arden's ambition?
She was opposition spokesperson for justice when she launched Steve Braunias's book that included 100 pages on the Lundy case.
He concludes it is a gross miscarriage of justice.
Then she appoints one of the judges that denied his appeal to position of chief justice, which is a 16 million dollar gig.

Disgusting. Nothing can atone for this ever.

There is considerably more evidence implicating both these women.

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Old 22nd May 2019, 12:12 PM   #1715
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
That's interesting that the NFI lab has been instrumental in sorting some of this out. I have been in contact with a forensic scientist at the NFI lab in connection with the Lockerbie investigation and I have a high opinion of their expertise.
Steve Bustin talks of writing a paper for peer review exposing the hoax perpetrated by Laetitia Sijen, a bespoke experiment designed for just one purpose. But one bad apple shouldn't write off an institution.
The effect of her work was to allege cooking spatter was probably of human origin.

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Old 25th May 2019, 06:35 AM   #1716
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no such thing

Jonathan Eaton: "...and I’m saying that’s not a substitute for the legal threshold for admissibility and it needs to be seriously debated because all we’ve got is the subjective opinions of clinicians who use IHC, they are not experts in IHC because there’s no such field of expertise, and they are giving their subjective opinions when they are searching for brain when that is not their practice. Their practice is to look at identified tissue and find disease, and now it’s being used to say “I’ve got unidentified tissue. Can you tell me if it’s brain?” Not “Can you tell me what it is?”, “Can you tell me if it’s brain?” And when one reads the PCAST report from 2016, which came after trial, and where it talks about foundational and scientific validity, this falls short on so many levels."

This is an important point with respect to the IHC, that there is no such thing as [forensic] IHC and that it is being used differently in this case from its normal uses.
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Old 26th May 2019, 04:01 AM   #1717
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It is important to appreciate I think that the supreme court denying the defence the right to debate the admissibilty of the IHC evidence is quite distinct from the discussion around reliability.

The proviso question is not a narrow ground for appeal, despite New Zealand media suggesting this.
In fact, it seems that the dragline the proviso relies on will potentially involve every skerrick of crown evidence ever brought to any court room.

One of my ideas is that there is no substantive difference between the admissibility of the paint flecks evidence, which are completely debunked, and the IHC evidence.
And the crown talks of "all the other evidence" to support applying the proviso.
Shades of Amanda Knox.
In fact the other evidence is the paint flakes, and blood on a window sill, but importantly unidentified fingerprints that cannot be planted, and cannot be secondary transfer at that window complex, dna under fingernails and so on.
The crown conceded one error by the appeal court, and that is simply that Amber did not eat food recognisable at midnight as not MacDonalds.
This is huge. Her stomach contained "chyme", as expected for a death around midnight. Christine's stomach does show very recently eaten leftover crinkle cut chips.
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Old 26th May 2019, 06:44 PM   #1718
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Mate, this is getting to the ridiculously stupid stage.

Jacinda has bigger fish to fry and it happened when she was a bloody teenager.

By all means, cry about Winkelman and the injustice of it all, but if there's one person whose fault Lundy's situation isn't, it's her.

Another point for you to consider:

Whether Lundy killed the pair or not - and I don't believe he did - if he'd been at home instead of in Petone banging a hooker, this situation wouldn't exist.
He was actually on a business trip.
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Old 26th May 2019, 06:55 PM   #1719
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Originally Posted by Hard Cheese View Post
I suppose given what happened with the hairs found on the Blade, it doesn't inspire much confidence even if they had tested them.

I wonder if they'd be able to match any of the hair DNA to the two DNA profiles found under her fingernails? That would give you an almost inarguable case for third party involvement.


So they no longer exist, unable to be retested?



It would seem like a very obvious avenue to pursue. If I recall correctly there was a very large suspect list at one point, you'd be able to rule people in and out very easily.

The tests re the fingernail DNA compared to the brown to brown red hair were never done, so that is a very good point worth noting.

Not sure if the 21 hairs can be found, but if they can't be tested it weighs in favour of the proviso not being exercised, and a particularly strong warning by the Judge at any retrial.

Suspect lists are misused, particularly after the honing in process starts. They thought it was Lundy, so they can say that there was a 100 suspects and the Jury believe they've all been cleared - leaving only the accused. The file on DNA and hair should never be closed when the case is being fought as a Miscarriage of Justice.
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Old 26th May 2019, 06:59 PM   #1720
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Oh good grief this is just pathetically silly.
In what way is Lundy a victim of Jacinda Arden's ambition?


Samson has a waffle button that overrides his ability to think.
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