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Old 21st November 2018, 01:33 AM   #401
Sol88
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
No rock. As proven. Just dust, ice and organics. As opposed to actual rock, which is obviously what the asteroids Steins and Lutetia are composed of, as confirmed by Rosetta density measurements at those bodies. Which were not outgassing.
So fluffy refractory dust with minor mass fraction of ices mixed among them?


As stated by Marco Fulle.
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:49 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ok thought so, thanks anyway
thought so what, exactly?
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:50 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So fluffy refractory dust with minor mass fraction of ices mixed among them?


As stated by Marco Fulle.
And no rock, as required by the idiotic electric comet woo, which says they were blasted off of planets by giant lightning strikes (lol).
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Old 21st November 2018, 01:54 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So Henry H. Hsieh's paper Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system

Address's your very concerns sport!

Remember the only tools you have to explain everything about these objects is random impact and "spin up".

So with just those tools explain Oumuamua's

You cant do it, neither could I!
Irrelevant. Comets are not asteroids. And they do not outgas due to their ellipticity, nor due to any sort of electrical woo due to a non-existent radial electric field from a non-existent electric sun (lol). Busted flush.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:20 PM   #405
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Thumbs down Irrelevant to his electric comet insanity quote from M.A'Hearn

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
A quote from M.A'Hearn
Irrelevant to his electric comet insanity quote from M.A'Hearn yet again.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:25 PM   #406
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Thumbs down A lie that I and the experts are saying different things

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So you tell me on thing and the "experts" say another?
A lie that I and the experts are saying different things. I and the experts are saying that comets are made of ices and dust. I and the experts are saying that there are at least 2 missions (Deep Impact and Rosetta) that showed more dust than ices on 2 comets. I and the experts agree those results suggests that comets in general have more dust than ices.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:32 PM   #407
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Thumbs down A now insane "CONTINUUM" lie to derail form his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You aslo complete ignored the hard truth that asteroids and comets are a CONTINUUM!
A now insane "CONTINUUM" lie to derail form his electric comet insanity.

Any one who reads his source understands that it is about the few main-belt asteroids that show comet-like behavior, e.g. temporary tails. That is not all asteroids and comets forming a continuum. That lie has been repeated enough to become insane but what really makes it insane is that treating these asteroids as comets debunks his electric comets insanity.

Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system
Quote:
In this review presented at the Royal Society meeting, ‘Cometary science after Rosetta’, I present an overview of studies of small solar system objects that exhibit properties of both asteroids and comets (with a focus on so-called active asteroids). Sometimes referred to as ‘transition objects’, these bodies are perhaps more appropriately described as ‘continuum objects’, to reflect the notion that rather than necessarily representing actual transitional evolutionary states between asteroids and comets, they simply belong to the general population of small solar system bodies that happen to exhibit a continuous range of observational, physical and dynamical properties. Continuum objects are intriguing because they possess many of the properties that make classical comets interesting to study (e.g. relatively primitive compositions, ejection of surface and subsurface material into space where it can be more easily studied, and orbital properties that allow us to sample material from distant parts of the solar system that would otherwise be inaccessible), while allowing us to study regions of the solar system that are not sampled by classical comets.
Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.

Last edited by Reality Check; 21st November 2018 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:53 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Irrelevant. Comets are not asteroids. And they do not outgas due to their ellipticity, nor due to any sort of electrical woo due to a non-existent radial electric field from a non-existent electric sun (lol). Busted flush.

If you say so.

Not what the experts say.

Who’s correct jd116, Whipple from 60 years ago or the authors of the latest papers using the latest data?

The simplest most basic of questions regarding comets are they mostly ice or ,mostly refractory material?

MUPUS hit rock.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:57 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
A now insane "CONTINUUM" lie to derail form his electric comet insanity.

Any one who reads his source understands that it is about the few main-belt asteroids that show comet-like behavior, e.g. temporary tails. That is not all asteroids and comets forming a continuum. That lie has been repeated enough to become insane but what really makes it insane is that treating these asteroids as comets debunks his electric comets insanity.

Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system


Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
So what’s the difference between comets and asteroids rc?

Random impact and spin up?

Or do you thunk like the “experts” that Omuamua is an alien spaceship?

__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:57 PM   #410
Reality Check
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Thumbs down Usual idiocy and lies to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
....Right, so comets are icy small Solar System bodies that outguess when passing close to the Sun.
Usual idiocy and lies to derail from his electric comet insanity.
He quotes real working science, not anything about his electric comet insanity. A lie that main-belt comets (active asteroids) do not have ices. The "active asteroid" name is used by some astronomers to emphasize that these are rocky, not ices and dust like comets, and most of the activity is not driven by sublimation.
Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system has a section on main-belt comets that do have "apparently sublimation-driven activity", e.g. 7968 Elst–Pizarro which had repeated activity near perihelion in 1996, 2001, and 2007.

Big red "So, given the previous, I think that we can safely conclude the following" stupidity. None of the previous says that a model that has worked for 70 years and still works has failed. All that has happened is that empirical evidence has suggested that the ratio of ices and dust is reversed from the 1950's estimate. That is called scientific progress !

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 21st November 2018, 02:59 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
thought so what, exactly?
Integrate it far enough and bingo quasi neutrality!!!

MHD applies
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:01 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Usual idiocy and lies to derail from his electric comet insanity.
He quotes real working science, not anything about his electric comet insanity. A lie that main-belt comets (active asteroids) do not have ices. The "active asteroid" name is used by some astronomers to emphasize that these are rocky, not ices and dust like comets, and most of the activity is not driven by sublimation.
Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system has a section on main-belt comets that do have "apparently sublimation-driven activity", e.g. 7968 Elst–Pizarro which had repeated activity near perihelion in 1996, 2001, and 2007.

Big red "So, given the previous, I think that we can safely conclude the following" stupidity. None of the previous says that a model that has worked for 70 years and still works has failed. [b]All that has happened is that empirical evidence has suggested that the ratio of ices and dust is reversed from the 1950's estimate.[\b] That is called scientific progress !.
[/url]
Booya!

Progress, from the latest paper, what kind of dust?




Now how about those pesky electric fields rc?
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 21st November 2018 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:07 PM   #413
Reality Check
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Thumbs down Lies about jonesdave116's post to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Comets are mostly ice even poor Marco Fulle got it wrong he thinks comets are mostly refractory dust!
Lies about jonesdave116's post to derail from his electric comet insanity.
jonesdave116 did not say that comets do not have ices. jonesdave116 wrote that we have never detected the electric comet insanity of rock at comets. The measured density of comets (less than water!) alone says that they are not made of rock.

A blatant lie since Sol88 knows that 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko has a measured mean density of 0.533 ± 0.006 g/cc and may have a dust/ices ratio as high as 6.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:12 PM   #414
Reality Check
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Thumbs down Lies again about Henry H. Hsieh's paper to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So Henry H. Hsieh's paper Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system
Lies again about Henry H. Hsieh's paper Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system to derail from his electric comet insanity.

The review has asteroids that show comet-like behavior from
  • Ices sublimating
  • Impacts exposing ices that sublimate.
  • Impacts ejecting dust to from a coma or tail.
  • Standard physics of spin up and dust being ejected.
Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:16 PM   #415
Reality Check
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Thumbs down Ignorance and more'Oumuamua idiocy to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So with just those tools explain Oumuamua's
Ignorance and more 'Oumuamua idiocy to derail from his electric comet insanity.
No knowledgeable person thinks that the 'Oumuamua's acceleration was random impact or spin up. The acceleration was not sudden as in an impact. We measured the spin.

A possible cause of 'Oumuamua's acceleration was sublimating ices but there are arguments against this. Could Solar Radiation Pressure Explain 'Oumuamua's Peculiar Acceleration? is an attempt to explain the acceleration using solar radiation pressure.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.

Last edited by Reality Check; 21st November 2018 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:28 PM   #416
Reality Check
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Thumbs down A "MUPUS hit rock" lie when MUPUS hit material that was consistent with sintered ices

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
MUPUS hit rock.
A "MUPUS hit rock" lie when MUPUS hit material that was consistent with sintered ices.
Astronomers do not state that MUPUS hit rock because astronomers are not insane enough to think that comets are actual rock.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:30 PM   #417
Reality Check
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Thumbs down Idiotic questions to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So what’s the difference between comets and asteroids rc? ...
Idiotic questions to derail from his electric comet insanity.
Nothing to do with A now insane "CONTINUUM" lie to derail form his electric comet insanity.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.

Last edited by Reality Check; 21st November 2018 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:37 PM   #418
Reality Check
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Thumbs down An inane "Booya" reply to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Booya! ...
An inane "Booya" reply to derail from his electric comet insanity.
My post was Usual idiocy and lies to derail from his electric comet insanity.

There are no "pesky electric fields". There are the electric fields around comets that are expected from working physics. There is his insanity of latching onto 'electric field' as if that supported the electric comet delusions.

Nothing to do with Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:53 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Lies again about Henry H. Hsieh's paper Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system to derail from his electric comet insanity.

The review has asteroids that show comet-like behavior from
  • Ices sublimating
  • Impacts exposing ices that sublimate.
  • Impacts ejecting dust to from a coma or tail.
  • Standard physics of spin up and dust being ejected.
Why not Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity

Electrostatic dust ejection!

Add that to your tool box, instead of just impacts and “spin up” form random impacts.

Your tying to smash a round peg into a square hole, why not use the square peg instead?
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
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Old 21st November 2018, 03:57 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
An inane "Booya" reply to derail from his electric comet insanity.
My post was Usual idiocy and lies to derail from his electric comet insanity.

There are no "pesky electric fields". There are the electric fields around comets that are expected from working physics. There is his insanity of latching onto 'electric field' as if that supported the electric comet delusions.


A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
[/url]

Yeah those pesky electric fields!

Can’t see any mention of them wrt to comets except in the last. Year or so!

That’s science I guess!

Slowly slowly catch the monkey.
__________________
“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
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Old 21st November 2018, 05:47 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Irrelevant. Comets are not asteroids. And they do not outgas due to their ellipticity, nor due to any sort of electrical woo due to a non-existent radial electric field from a non-existent electric sun (lol). Busted flush.

Irrelevant, for a big banger? Spose it is.

but anyone with two brain cells to rub together would ask whats the difference.

So one might head on out onto the www and do little more in depth research than wiki on what comets are.

We KNOW they are an icy small Solar System body.

So why would the pre-eminent scientist now say they contain less ice than previously thought!

Quote:
This constraint confirms that comets can be defined as “mineral organices” (Fulle et al. 2016b), i.e. a mixture of minerals and organics with a minor mass fraction of ices mixed among them
So at what point are comets no longer icy small solar system but "dusty" small solar system bodies?

Also

At what point does this dust become consolidated dust (ROCK)?

you are aware that 67P contains consolidated bedrock!
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:33 PM   #422
Reality Check
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Thumbs down Stupidity about a "surface charging" paper to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Stupidity about a "surface charging" paper to derail from his electric comet insanity.

Main belt asteroids are inside the volume where comets have coma that shields the nucleus from the solar wind. Any hypothetical surface charging or electrostatic dust acceleration for a comet stops. These main belt asteroids have had that hypothetical electrostatic dust acceleration for billions of years - any dust that could be ejected has probably been ejected!

Nothing to do with Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:39 PM   #423
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Thumbs down A cometary electric field lie to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Can’t see any mention of them wrt to comets except in the last. Year or so!
A cometary electric field lie to derail from his electric comet insanity.

Astronomers have been looking at electric fields around comets for decades as he knows from this thread. From Electric comets still do not exist!, 28th August 2009: tusenfem pointed out that "Electric Fields and Cold Electrons in the Vicinity of Comet Halley" by Harri Laakso (1991) gave the measured potential drop between electrical layers around Comet Halley.
It talks literally a minute to search the ADS database to get 500 abstracts with 'comet electric field'.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.

Last edited by Reality Check; 21st November 2018 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:52 PM   #424
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Thumbs down An idiotic question and lie to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
We KNOW they are an icy small Solar System body.

So why would the pre-eminent scientist now say they contain less ice than previously thought!
Idiotic lies to derail from his electric comet insanity.
His quote mine does not give any proportion for the ices versus dust. Comet
Quote:
A comet is an icy small Solar System body that, when passing close to the Sun, warms and begins to release gases, a process called outgassing. This produces a visible atmosphere or coma, and sometimes also a tail. These phenomena are due to the effects of solar radiation and the solar wind acting upon the nucleus of the comet. Comet nuclei range from a few hundred metres to tens of kilometres across and are composed of loose collections of ice, dust, and small rocky particles.
...
The solid, core structure of a comet is known as the nucleus. Cometary nuclei are composed of an amalgamation of rock, dust, water ice, and frozen carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, methane, and ammonia.[13] As such, they are popularly described as "dirty snowballs" after Fred Whipple's model.[14] However, some comets may have a higher dust content, leading them to be called "icy dirtballs".[15] Research conducted in 2014 suggests that comets are like "deep fried ice cream", in that their surfaces are formed of dense crystalline ice mixed with organic compounds, while the interior ice is colder and less dense.[16]
(my emphasis added)

Michael A’Hearn did not say that comets contain less ice than previously thought. He said that he thinks we are evolving toward comets having less ice.
A quote from The Refractory-to-Ice Mass Ratio in Comets by Marco Fulle, J Blum, S F Green, B Gundlach, A Herique, F Moreno, S Mottola, A Rotundi, and C Snodgrass, that does not refer to previous thoughts.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.

Last edited by Reality Check; 21st November 2018 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:57 PM   #425
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Thumbs down Back to the actual ROCK insanity part of his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
At what point does this dust become consolidated dust (ROCK)?
Back to the actual ROCK insanity part of his electric comet insanity.

Comets are made of ices and dust. Any "consolidation" in the weak gravity of comets will form a loose mixture of ices and dust. That is what we measure. A porosity of ~70% inside 67P = a loose mixture of ices and dust.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 21st November 2018, 08:01 PM   #426
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Thumbs down A "67P contains consolidated bedrock" delusion to derail from electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
you are aware that 67P contains consolidated bedrock!
A "67P contains consolidated bedrock" delusion to derail from his electric comet insanity.
The interior of 67P contains a loose mixture of ices and dust (porosity of ~70%).

This is the persistent stupidity of thinking that astronomers using geological terms to describe material made of ices and dust = actual rock.
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Old 21st November 2018, 08:33 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Idiotic lies to derail from his electric comet insanity.
His quote mine does not give any proportion for the ices versus dust. Comet

(my emphasis added)

Michael A’Hearn did not say that comets contain less ice than previously thought. He said that he thinks we are evolving toward comets having less ice.
A quote from The Refractory-to-Ice Mass Ratio in Comets by Marco Fulle, J Blum, S F Green, B Gundlach, A Herique, F Moreno, S Mottola, A Rotundi, and C Snodgrass, that does not refer to previous thoughts.
[/url]
Quote:
Michael A’Hearn did not say that comets contain less ice than previously thought. He said that he thinks we are evolving toward comets having less ice.
Did he? let me just check for you there cob!

Quote:
(c) What are comets made of? At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high as 6 have been cited [3,4]. Nevertheless, there is still considerable uncertainty about even this basic parameter, not least of which is that most measurements are subject to selection effects in removing refractories from the nucleus to the coma, where they are observed as dust.
So mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material? Simple question.
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“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
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Old 22nd November 2018, 05:05 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
If you say so.

Not what the experts say.

Who’s correct jd116, Whipple from 60 years ago or the authors of the latest papers using the latest data?

The simplest most basic of questions regarding comets are they mostly ice or ,mostly refractory material?

MUPUS hit rock.
There are no experts saying that comets outgas due to their ellipticity.
There are no experts saying that comets outgas due to electrical woo.
There are no experts saying that comets are asteroids.
There are undoubtedly some asteroids that would be re-classified as inactive comets, if we had a close enough look.
Comets are dust and ice. The ratio will likely vary. We have known this for some considerable time.
Whipple was very close to the mark, given that we had been nowhere near a comet at the time.
MUPUS did not hit rock. QUIT WITH THE LYING.
Only unqualified idiots are suggesting anything other than sublimating volatiles to explain the outgassing.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 05:20 AM   #429
jonesdave116
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Irrelevant, for a big banger? Spose it is.

but anyone with two brain cells to rub together would ask whats the difference.

So one might head on out onto the www and do little more in depth research than wiki on what comets are.

We KNOW they are an icy small Solar System body.

So why would the pre-eminent scientist now say they contain less ice than previously thought!



So at what point are comets no longer icy small solar system but "dusty" small solar system bodies?

Also

At what point does this dust become consolidated dust (ROCK)?

you are aware that 67P contains consolidated bedrock!
There is no bedrock. QUIT WITH THE LYING.
.

There is no rock full stop, and no possible means of turning dust into rock at a comet. Only an idiot would suggest otherwise. It would require enormous pressure, and possibly temperature.
Comets are indisputably icy bodies. They contain ices! Asteroids generally don't.

And none of this has anything to do with the electric comet crap. You need rock, because they were supposed to be blasted off of planets. Where is it? Fail.
There are supposed to be discharges and EDM. Where is it? Fail.
Everything else is pretty much irrelevant. Answer those questions, and realise that the ec lunacy is as dead as a doornail, and all your posts are just a diversion from the utter failure of this puerile model.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 05:23 AM   #430
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Quote:
So mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material? Simple question.
Stop obfuscating, and explain why the electric comet 'model' (lol) has been a total failure. No rock, no discharges.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 05:34 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Integrate it far enough and bingo quasi neutrality!!!

MHD applies
So clearly you have not understood a word of what I told you.
Toodles!
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Old 22nd November 2018, 06:29 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Why not Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity

Electrostatic dust ejection!

Add that to your tool box, instead of just impacts and “spin up” form random impacts.

Your tying to smash a round peg into a square hole, why not use the square peg instead?
Correct me if I'm wrong Sol88, but you've introduced this/these before, in this thread, more than once in fact.

And in most instances, the core content of your posts is ~the same; you rarely introduce something new, either content or analysis.

Lately, those who respond to these posts of yours have become repetitious too (the first few times around you'd get something original almost every time).

So, how is what you're doing different from trolling?
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Old 22nd November 2018, 06:56 AM   #433
jonesdave116
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Yeah those pesky electric fields!

Can’t see any mention of them wrt to comets except in the last. Year or so!

That’s science I guess!

Slowly slowly catch the monkey.
That's because you've never looked at the relevant literature. You prefer to just make things up.

See;

Dynamics of the AMPTE artificial comet
Haerendel, G. et al. (1986)
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...1430c807cf.pdf

Quote:
Ions and electrons contribute almost equally to the total pressure of the plasma cloud. Because of charge neutrality constraints, both constituents are coupled together by an electric polarization field. Initially, the electron gas tends to get ahead of the ions and accelerates them by means of an outward-pointing radial ambipolar electric field
.

Also see;

A New Model of Cometary Ionospheres
Körösmezey, A. et al (1987)
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....A092iA07p07331
(paywalled)

Quote:
This very large electron temperature gradient results in a corresponding increase in plasma pressure and associated polarization electric field, which in turn affects the dynamics of the plasma flow Which will be discussed next.
And also see;

The Role of Electric Fields in the Cometary Environment
Cravens, T. E. et al (1984)
https://inis.iaea.org/collection/NCL...0/15060349.pdf

Quote:
Polarization electric fields in the cometary environment are shown to influence both the cometary plasma and the fine cometary dust. In the first part of this paper we will consider the role of the ambipolar electric field on the dynamics and thermodynamics of the cometary ionosphere. In particular, it will be shown that this field would both decelerate and cool the plasma in the outer cometary ionosphere.
So, your contention is demonstrably false. Surprise, surprise.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 04:10 PM   #434
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Thumbs down Repeats an inane, answered question to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material? Simple question.
Repeats an inane, answered question and obsessive quote of Michael A’Hearn to derail from his electric comet insanity.

Michael A’Hearn did not say that comets contain less ice than previously thought. He said that he thinks we are evolving toward comets having less ice.

One last time: I agree. We have at least 2 examples of comets with more dust than ices. We are evolving toward comets having more dust than gases.

A’Hearn's "rock/dirt/refractory material" is not the electric comet insanity of actual rock.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 07:01 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
There are no experts saying that comets outgas due to their ellipticity.
There are no experts saying that comets outgas due to electrical woo.
There are no experts saying that comets are asteroids.
There are undoubtedly some asteroids that would be re-classified as inactive comets, if we had a close enough look.
Comets are dust and ice. The ratio will likely vary. We have known this for some considerable time.
Whipple was very close to the mark, given that we had been nowhere near a comet at the time.
MUPUS did not hit rock. QUIT WITH THE LYING.
Only unqualified idiots are suggesting anything other than sublimating volatiles to explain the outgassing.

What did MUPUS hit?

sintered refractory dust or imaginary sintered ice? Did they test ROCK or because we already KNOW they are mostly ICE with a lesser amount of dust!

and would'nt you know it sintered ice is as hard as ROCK! must be since MUPUS no progress in hammering the penetrator into said mix of ice and fluffy dust!

Quote:
a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material
Seems the MUPUS team have shot their load early!

because it is disagreement with the latest paper!

Comets are not mostly ice but mostly rock, according to M.A'Hearn

In case you missed it
Quote:
(c) What are comets made of? At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high as 6 have been cited [3,4]. Nevertheless, there is still considerable uncertainty about even this basic parameter, not least of which is that most measurements are subject to selection effects in removing refractories from the nucleus to the coma, where they are observed as dust.
Are you saying A'Hearn is wrong, jd116?

Your problem jd116 is to work out where all this "ICE" is coming from.

because if you not 100% up to speed on the latest
Quote:
This constraint confirms that comets can be defined as “mineral organices” (Fulle et al. 2016b), i.e. a mixture of minerals and organics with a minor mass fraction of ices mixed among them
Now of you go and work that conundrum out!

the dust to ice ratio is?

if 67P mass is 9.982^12kg and 75% porosity, how many kg of ice does 67p have? Remember
Quote:
minor mass fraction of ices mixed among them
What type of terrain does Serqet, Khepry, Apis, Anhur, Wosret, Geb, Khonsu, Aker, Hathor, Maftet, Bastet, Anuket, Atum, Bes and Sobek contain?

This does in no way obstifacte the question asked. You are the one dodgeing the bleeding obvious!
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“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 22nd November 2018 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 07:08 PM   #436
Sol88
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
That's because you've never looked at the relevant literature. You prefer to just make things up.

See;

Dynamics of the AMPTE artificial comet
Haerendel, G. et al. (1986)
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...1430c807cf.pdf

.

Also see;

A New Model of Cometary Ionospheres
Körösmezey, A. et al (1987)
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....A092iA07p07331
(paywalled)



And also see;

The Role of Electric Fields in the Cometary Environment
Cravens, T. E. et al (1984)
https://inis.iaea.org/collection/NCL...0/15060349.pdf



So, your contention is demonstrably false. Surprise, surprise.

Ahh poor jonesy, I do feel for you champ!


See below sport.

Quote:
28th August 2009: tusenfem pointed out that "Electric Fields and Cold Electrons in the Vicinity of Comet Halley" by Harri Laakso (1991) gave the measured potential drop between electrical layers around Comet Halley.
Now ask the super duper space plasma physicist how big the potential drop is.


Go on


These electric fields are powerfull enough to give us THE ELECTRIC COMET!
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator
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Old 22nd November 2018, 07:34 PM   #437
Reality Check
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Thumbs down A lying MUPUS question to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
What did MUPUS hit?
A lying MUPUS question to derail from his electric comet insanity.

He has been told many times that MUPUS hit material consistent with sintered ice.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.

Last edited by Reality Check; 22nd November 2018 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 07:44 PM   #438
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Thumbs down A "latest paper disagreement" lie to derail from his electric comet insanity.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
because it is disagreement with the latest paper!
A "latest paper disagreement " lie to derail from his electric comet insanity.

Michael A'Hearn did not write a paper stating his insanity that comets are ROCK (actual rock).

Comets: looking ahead by Michael A'Hearn is not a paper. It is a discussion document.

Comets: looking ahead by Michael A'Hearn was published on 29 May 2017. It is not the latest paper on comets !

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 07:54 PM   #439
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
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Thumbs down An insane and lying "ICE" question to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Your problem jd116 is to work out where all this "ICE" is coming from.
An insane and lying "ICE" question to derail from his electric comet insanity.

"ICE" in quotes is a blatant lie because there is evidence that ices (no quotes) exists and he has just quoted M.A'Hearn stating that ices (no quotes) exist on comets.

The question itself is insane because comets formed with their ices and dust in the early Solar System. All icy bodies have the same origin - the formation of the Solar System.
Sol88 has been spouting Thunderbolts cult comet insanity for 9 years now. Sol88 knows where cometary ices come from. Sol88 has cited articles on comets stating where the ices (no quotes) come from.

Sol88's electric comet insanity:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.
Insanity of dust removal from the surface changing measured comet density
Electrical discharge machining insanity.
A repeated insane insult of Michael A’Hearn.
A delusion that the estimates of outgassing form ices are wrong.
"water from hydrated minerals" idiocy.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 07:58 PM   #440
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 24,729
Thumbs down An idiotic and lying question to derail from his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
the dust to ice ratio is?
An idiotic and lying question to derail from his electric comet insanity.

In that insanity, comets are made of actual rock, not ices and dust.
In the real world, we have evidence that 67P has a dust to ice ratio of up to 6 as in the papers he has cited.
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