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Old 8th May 2019, 08:30 PM   #1961
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Hmm. My car has hydraulic brakes that put out about 1200 PSI, and they're assisted by a vacuum canister that pulls about 75 percent vacuum relative to the atmosphere. So now I'm really worried. Will it explode or will it implode? Or might it do both at the same time, and dematerialize in a brief but brilliant flash of logical confusion?
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:48 AM   #1962
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
He might read up on gravity too, since he thinks that there is no equal and opposite force to gravity.

I guess that is another of those flat-earth things.
Yes, yes it is. They claim gravity is an illusion caused by the Flat Earth accelerating upward.
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Old 9th May 2019, 06:00 AM   #1963
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Yes, yes it is. They claim gravity is an illusion caused by the Flat Earth accelerating upward.
Yes. Only two problems with that.

1) Mass attraction has been experimentally proven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_experiment

2) If gravity was due to Earth accelerating upwards (never-mind how that should happen), the force of gravity would be the same everywhere. But it isn't. Not only does it diminish with altitude, but it varies at different places, due to different densities in Earth's crust.

Hans
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Old 9th May 2019, 06:21 AM   #1964
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Yes. Only two problems with that.

1) Mass attraction has been experimentally proven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_experiment

2) If gravity was due to Earth accelerating upwards (never-mind how that should happen), the force of gravity would be the same everywhere. But it isn't. Not only does it diminish with altitude, but it varies at different places, due to different densities in Earth's crust.

Hans
And we'd be going really, really fast by now
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Old 9th May 2019, 06:34 AM   #1965
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
And we'd be going really, really fast by now
Then there's the issue with the speed of light.

One option is to say, "Yeah, we can't go past the speed of light."
https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acce...ed_of_light.3F

You can try to deny light as a speed limit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm1T9iRje1I
Quote:
In this video we'll review the measurement of the speed of light, to determine whether it's real science, or just more fluff coming from scientism. FLAT EARTH
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Flat Earth -Dirty secrets of science! Speed of light, the big G, Universal constants???
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:00 AM   #1966
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Yes, yes it is. They claim gravity is an illusion caused by the Flat Earth accelerating upward.
Wow!

I sure have not heard this particular bit of nonsense before.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:04 AM   #1967
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Then there's the issue with the speed of light.
That's not an issue though, you could in principle remain at constant proper acceleration forever. It's just that as you get close to the speed of light that proper acceleration corresponds to less and less coordinate acceleration because of the increasing Lorentz factor, so you'd asymptotically approach the speed of light under constant proper acceleration but never actually reach it.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:07 AM   #1968
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
That's not an issue though, you could in principle remain at constant proper acceleration forever. It's just that as you get close to the speed of light that proper acceleration corresponds to less and less coordinate acceleration because of the increasing Lorentz factor, so you'd asymptotically approach the speed of light under constant proper acceleration but never actually reach it.
Phew, what a relief!
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:13 AM   #1969
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Yes, yes it is. They claim gravity is an illusion caused by the Flat Earth accelerating upward.
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Wow!

I sure have not heard this particular bit of nonsense before.
Well, that's just silly. According to Scott Adams, the earth is spherical and gravity is caused by it expanding outward....
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:15 AM   #1970
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You'd run into a different issue though, if you are under constant proper acceleration then you'd have a horizon (called the Rindler horizon) behind you since the photons behind you (from some particular distance depending on how much you're accelerating) can't catch up. So we wouldn't see any stars "behind" us if we were constantly accelerating.

If this sounds counter-intuitive, which it probably does, since you never reach the speed of light and the photons chasing you are at light speed so they should catch up then think of it this way: Suppose there's a photon chasing you with 1000s time-to-intercept (the photon is going faster so time-to-intercept is finite). 1 second later the time-to-intercept would be 999s, however during that 1 second you've accelerated and added 2 seconds to the time-to-intercept so the time-to-intercept is now 1001s. So even though you never reach light speed and the photon chases you at light speed (time-to-intercept is always finite) the time-to-intercept grows faster than the photon can close the distance, leading to the effect that the photon never catches up and you have a Rindler horizon behind you.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:16 AM   #1971
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Phew, what a relief!
I agree. Those last few posts had me worried.

Now, I need to know, what is this flat earth of ours accelerating into?
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:19 AM   #1972
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Phew, what a relief!
In fact, I'd call it a full sculpture!
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:19 AM   #1973
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
You'd run into a different issue though, if you are under constant proper acceleration then you'd have a horizon (called the Rindler horizon) behind you since the photons behind you (from some particular distance depending on how much you're accelerating) can't catch up. So we wouldn't see any stars "behind" us if we were constantly accelerating.

If this sounds counter-intuitive, which it probably does, since you never reach the speed of light and the photons chasing you are at light speed so they should catch up then think of it this way: Suppose there's a photon chasing you with 1000s time-to-intercept (the photon is going faster so time-to-intercept is finite). 1 second later the time-to-intercept would be 999s, however during that 1 second you've accelerated and added 2 seconds to the time-to-intercept so the time-to-intercept is now 1001s. So even though you never reach light speed and the photon chases you at light speed (time-to-intercept is always finite) the time-to-intercept grows faster than the photon can close the distance, leading to the effect that the photon never catches up and you have a Rindler horizon behind you.
That however is not an issue for the Flat Earth model as any photons "behind" the accelerating flat Earth would be under it. We'd never see that light anyway.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:25 AM   #1974
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I agree. Those last few posts had me worried.

Now, I need to know, what is this flat earth of ours accelerating into?
I've seen multiple explanations. Some claim it's the "Waters" above the firmament mentioned in Genesis. Others claim it's an actual vacuum. I don't have any details on which view is more popular or what other explanations may exist.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:28 AM   #1975
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Mentioned upthread, but I love to hear flat-earthers explaining time zones.

When I flew to Hawaii, all the islands were in on the hoax. They set their clocks to some random time! I called my mother back in Florida when it was daylight, and she said it had been dark for hours there. I mean, my own mother is in on the hoax.

Oh, the humanity.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:36 AM   #1976
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Mentioned upthread, but I love to hear flat-earthers explaining time zones.

When I flew to Hawaii, all the islands were in on the hoax. They set their clocks to some random time! I called my mother back in Florida when it was daylight, and she said it had been dark for hours there. I mean, my own mother is in on the hoax.

Oh, the humanity.
TIL flat earthers have an explanation for time zones


If you prefer a video:
Flat Earth Proof 29 - Time Zones
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:39 AM   #1977
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
That however is not an issue for the Flat Earth model as any photons "behind" the accelerating flat Earth would be under it. We'd never see that light anyway.
True. I suppose the biggest issue here would be: where does the energy for acceleration keep coming from? There's only a finite amount of energy stored in the mass of the Earth, so even if you were using all the mass of the Earth to turn it into energy to accelerate it would only get you so far until the Earth is used up.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:42 AM   #1978
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
True. I suppose the biggest issue here would be: where does the energy for acceleration keep coming from? There's only a finite amount of energy stored in the mass of the Earth, so even if you were using all the mass of the Earth to turn it into energy to accelerate it would only get you so far until the Earth is used up.
https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration

Quote:
Explanations for Universal Acceleration
The are several explanations for UA. As it is difficult for proponents of Flat Earth Theory to obtain grant money for scientific research, it is nigh on impossible to determine which of these theories is correct.

Dark Energy
This model proposes that the disk of our Earth is lifted by dark energy, an unknown form of energy which, according to globularist physicists, makes up about 70% of the universe. The origin of this energy is unknown.

Davis Plane
This model states that there is an infinite plane of exotic matter somewhere below the disk, pushing in the opposite manner of traditional gravity. This is a recent theory, and is in progress.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:42 AM   #1979
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
TIL flat earthers have an explanation for time zones
https://i.imgur.com/eyuUVdc.gif

If you prefer a video:
Flat Earth Proof 29 - Time Zones
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I AGREE
That...that is so much lamer an explanation than I would have thought...

Those poor Aussies, with their three hours or so of daylight...
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:43 AM   #1980
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
True. I suppose the biggest issue here would be: where does the energy for acceleration keep coming from? There's only a finite amount of energy stored in the mass of the Earth, so even if you were using all the mass of the Earth to turn it into energy to accelerate it would only get you so far until the Earth is used up.
You're assuming that physics. Flat earthers don't.

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Old 9th May 2019, 07:48 AM   #1981
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
That...that is so much lamer an explanation than I would have thought...

Those poor Aussies, with their three hours or so of daylight...
Flat Earth BOMBSHELL: Shock claim Australia ‘is NOT REAL and never existed’
Quote:
A CONSPIRACY theory linked to Flat Earth Society forums has emerged after scores of people claimed the continent of Australia is a myth created by the government.
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:52 AM   #1982
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I suppose we can carry this out to it's logical conclusion, that everyone is in on the hoax except for the flat-earther and anyone else mom lets down in the basement. No sleepovers, of course.
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:05 AM   #1983
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I suppose we can carry this out to it's logical conclusion, that everyone is in on the hoax except for the flat-earther and anyone else mom lets down in the basement. No sleepovers, of course.
This is a well-known phenomenon on this forum, and is termed the Inflationary Limit of Conspiracy Theories by former JREF member (not sure he ever registered with ISF) R.Mackey.

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Old 9th May 2019, 08:14 AM   #1984
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
That's not an issue though, you could in principle remain at constant proper acceleration forever. It's just that as you get close to the speed of light that proper acceleration corresponds to less and less coordinate acceleration because of the increasing Lorentz factor, so you'd asymptotically approach the speed of light under constant proper acceleration but never actually reach it.
The rest of the universe would start to look pretty odd though...
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:22 AM   #1985
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
TIL flat earthers have an explanation for time zones
https://i.imgur.com/eyuUVdc.gif

If you prefer a video:
Flat Earth Proof 29 - Time Zones
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I AGREE
They don't have an explanation for the distance across the south pacific from Australia to South America on that map though.
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:29 AM   #1986
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
They don't have an explanation for the distance across the south pacific from Australia to South America on that map though.
That's a debated topic. For example, one theory is that Australia simply does not exist and is faked. I think this quote from the linked page summarizes it nicely:

Quote:
But it all boils down to this : none of them do any maths. There's never been in history a model of a flat Earth with equations that can account for movements in the sky, predict the position of planets, etc.. like the Round Earth supporters do.
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:32 AM   #1987
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
They don't have an explanation for the distance across the south pacific from Australia to South America on that map though.
No they don't. Presumably hence sowing the seeds of doubt that Australia actually exists. (As everyone knows, Australia is actually on the underside of the world but has huge deposits of iron ore. Magnetic boots. That's all I'm sayin'.)


Nor do they have an explanation for why at the equator the sun would appear to the Northeast as it rises (instead of due East as seen in reality) and sets to the Northwest (instead of due West).
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:32 AM   #1988
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
...and provide reasons to move this back to the conspiracy section where it started. You knew this would ultimately come down to claiming that a whole bunch of people know the truth but are being suppressed or overridden by their lords and masters of the Great Lie.

In more legitimately rhetorical terms, it seems to come down to his need for people to accept his model of vacuum as some sort of fearsome boogey-man.
There are several examples in this thread of something like "so, you Gingervytes, are saying, to my face, that I am lying?"

The mere existence of these says that this thread does not belong in any section of the ISF with "Science" in its name.

Over in CQ, as Trebuchet has mentioned many times, a very similar claim is in their Conspiracy Theories section, not their Against the Mainstream one.

And rockethunter there (who may or may not be Gingervytes) has faced similar challenges, e.g. [rh]:"I've never seen anything in the sky that can be perceived as a satellite. I've been looking at the sky constantly. I see stars, falling stars, regular stuff. Planes with contrails. So essentially, you are debating the issue of rockets working in space using circumstantial evidence that can be fabricated rather than direct evidence based on actual science and observation. People can and have fallen for hoaxes". When challenged, with questions similar to "so, you Gingervytes, are saying, to my face, that I am lying?", rh has failed to respond (which is a big no-no in CQ's CS section, unlike here in ISF).
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:50 AM   #1989
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I agree. Those last few posts had me worried.

Now, I need to know, what is this flat earth of ours accelerating into?
The arms of Jesus.

The second coming will actually occur when the rising earth reaches the location of Heaven.
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Old 9th May 2019, 08:53 AM   #1990
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The arms of Jesus.

The second coming will actually occur when the rising earth reaches the location of Heaven.
Thank you for this concise explanation. I am now a believer.
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Old 9th May 2019, 09:18 AM   #1991
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Thank you for this concise explanation. I am now a believer.
The period of deceleration will be brief but really impressive. As the still-accelerating world smashes into the arms of Jesus, the dead will rise, along with the living, into the sky. For about a femtosecond.
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Old 9th May 2019, 09:27 AM   #1992
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The arms of Jesus.

The second coming will actually occur when the rising earth reaches the location of Heaven.
Aw shucks!

I was about to quip something inane about how the turtles which carry the Earth are in a state of 1g acceleration as they travel to their cosmic beach, but your explanation is so much better than mine.
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Old 9th May 2019, 09:44 AM   #1993
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
The period of deceleration will be brief but really impressive. As the still-accelerating world smashes into the arms of Jesus, the dead will rise, along with the living, into the sky. For about a femtosecond.
That raises some interesting physics questions. How far though the atmosphere will we travel before being incinerated by the heat created by friction and the compression of gas ahead of our bodies?

Will people in Antarctica be close enough to the firmament to splatter against it before being incinerated?
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Old 9th May 2019, 09:47 AM   #1994
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
That raises some interesting physics questions. How far though the atmosphere will we travel before being incinerated by the heat created by friction and the compression of gas ahead of our bodies?



Will people in Antarctica be close enough to the firmament to splatter against it before being incinerated?
That would require calculations, and those are the signs of the unbeliever.
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Old 9th May 2019, 10:53 AM   #1995
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
The rest of the universe would start to look pretty odd though...
The universe projected onto the sky dome isn't odd enough?
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:02 AM   #1996
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
TIL flat earthers have an explanation for time zones
https://i.imgur.com/eyuUVdc.gif

If you prefer a video:
Flat Earth Proof 29 - Time Zones
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Yes, however, that is not what we observe.The sun does not work as a spotlight. Instead, we see a disk that always have the same apparent size, which rises from the horizon at daybreak and sinks below the horizon at sunset. A spotlight thingy would not look like that.

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Old 9th May 2019, 11:02 AM   #1997
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
TIL flat earthers have an explanation for time zones
https://i.imgur.com/eyuUVdc.gif

If you prefer a video:
Flat Earth Proof 29 - Time Zones
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

The Sun, just a big spot lamp in the sky.


Doh! Ninja'd by MRC Hans!!

Last edited by Elagabalus; 9th May 2019 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Ninja'd
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:05 AM   #1998
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
This does not fit observation. If universal acceleration was true, gravity would be the same all over. It is not.

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Old 9th May 2019, 11:31 AM   #1999
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
The rest of the universe would start to look pretty odd though...
Good point.
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Old 9th May 2019, 11:32 AM   #2000
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
...They never just looked up any information related to any of the other 12 zillion bullets that get fired anywhere...

CT'ers never look anything up. That's why they prefer easily spouted catch phrases like Magic Bullet! Pressure Gradient Force! You've got nothing!
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