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Old 6th May 2019, 07:44 AM   #521
Thermal
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
You know what, no. Sorry, but this is utter BS.

I personally have no problem with a bunch of edgelord pseudo-Nazis getting swept up with the "real" Nazis.
Aaaaahhhh, there it is. You've strapped on your six-guns and have the cheroot dangling from your lips. Metaphorically, of course. We know you are not going to do a damn thing. But you openly support vigilantism, which is that all-important first step. Others have expanded nazism to include Islamaphobes, neo-fascists and others.

Now you have rationalized collateral damage. Your next slips down this slope are a walk in the park. So much easier to get people to abandon their principles than I would have thought. The cookies are over there, on the card table.

Darat and others are tougher. They stick to their principles, even when it hurts to do so. Not you, though. You rolled over easily.

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Everyone in this culture knows, or should know if they're not idiots living under rocks, what a Nazi is and what being a Nazi means. Certainly the edgelords playing at Nazis do, otherwise they would find someone else to emulate to prove how edgy they are. And ultimately that doesn't bloody well matter. It's not my responsibility to split hairs deciding who is a "real" Nazi, and who is a LARPing edgelord, because the end result is the same in either case -- more promotion of the Nazi worldview.
I appreciate your honesty, here. The moral folk do in fact accept responsibility for their actions.

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And in case you haven't forgotten, these "fake Nazi edgelords" have murdered dozens of people in the US and elsewhere in the last few years. How many more people do they need to kill before you'll take them seriously and stop spewing white nationalist propaganda in your insistence that we should ignore them?
Nope. Actual murdering sociopaths have done that, not the posers. Your obvious flaw is painting everyone with the same brush to justify collateral damage. But we don't have to argue that. You've already advocated it.

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Nope, it doesn't work that way. If you're going to going around wearing the symbols and spewing the propaganda and playing at being a Nazi, it doesn't matter if you really believe what you're saying or if you're just doing it to shock and troll people. If you're going to act like a Nazi, you don't get to whine when you get treated like a Nazi, and get swept up with the "real" Nazis. Maybe you should re-evaluate what you are doing with your life, and stop associating yourself with the worst people in human history. Just sayin'.
Actually, I agree. I think a lot of the edgelords are wearing a swastika as the ultimate counter-culture symbol, without an adult understanding of what it really means. These losers do need to be shaken out of it.

But you don't want to bother. They are just collateral damage for your vigilantism, as you say. Why, what could go wrong?

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Old 6th May 2019, 07:55 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post


In nearly all jurisdictions in the US, verbally berating someone is an act of violence. Yet most people seem to be okay with that sort of violence.
Not true, except in the most pedantic of senses. To qualify as assault, there are conditions to be met. But we've swaggered past those little law things, haven't we?

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Too many people are hung up on this black and white view of "violence", and seem to be unwilling to consider that there are degrees of violence, and that all acts of violence are most emphatically not equal.
Read the posts. All are making a hard distinction, contrary to your claim. We get to watch the opening volleys of the Slippery Slope at work though, and it is entertaining. You have already slipped down quite a ways.

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Spitting on someone is an act of violence. Shooting someone in the head with a shotgun is an act of violence. Attempting to equate the two is morally and intellectually bankrupt and beyond stupid, at best.
Of course, no one, but no one, is doing so. Funny enough, you are closer than most with rationalizing collateral damage. What fun!
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:55 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Actually, I agree. I think a lot of the edgelords are wearing a swastika as the ultimate counter-culture symbol, without an adult understanding of what it really means. These losers do need to be shaken out of it.
Of course they are also usually tied up in advocating the ideology involved as well. How involved in the whole political agenda and scene does one have to be to count as a real nazi? The shooters are in the same chat rooms, and message boards as these edge lords so really they are all edgelords unless they are actively shooting someone right now.

Will some of these Nazis grow out it? Sure, of course more will likely just get better at hiding their white supremacy and express it in much more mainstream contexts like Tucker Carlson or Trump. Then of course you can still say "sure they are tweeting out nazi propaganda, using nazi talking points, but that doesn't make them nazis or nazi sympathizers!"

Even Hitler wasn't really a nazi until WWII started, before that he was trying to deport the jews, but of course no one wanted them and we happily stood up to this non nazi saying "no we will not take your jews, they are your problem you find a solution to them" America was always far happier to see some minority group dead than let them into the country after all.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:06 AM   #524
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My empathy for halfway Nazis is also pretty limited. The nature of these movements seems to be deeply rooted in internet nihilism and trolling culture. It's all one big joke meant to be shocking, except when it isn't a joke and someone memes their way to a massacre. At some point, people who are just s***posting should be expected to realize they are culpable for creating a toxic ideology of violence. The "it's just a prank" defense does not work here.

I think Pizzagate is an instructive example of this kind of stuff. My impression is that a large majority of the alt-right weirdos spreading that conspiracy really didn't believe it to be true. There's really no way to measure this definitely, but I suspect it was largely just internet trolls spreading havoc for the sake of havoc. When some impressionable idiot takes it seriously and barges into a pizza shop with a rifle, that's just a bonus.

The tip of the spear of these nationalist movements are people who sincerely believe all the rhetoric, but there is a large reserve of nihilist edgelords that are filling out the ranks to make it truly dangerous. It is increasingly clear that the boundary between true ideologue and nihilist memer is so permeable it may as well not exist.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:08 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Aaaaahhhh, there it is. You've strapped on your six-guns and have the cheroot dangling from your lips. Metaphorically, of course. We know you are not going to do a damn thing. But you openly support vigilantism, which is that all-important first step. Others have expanded nazism to include Islamaphobes, neo-fascists and others.

And you have now not only demonstrated intellectual dishonesty, but egregious flat-out dishonesty. Let me know when you are capable of addressing the point, and not some ridiculous strawman.

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Nope. Actual murdering sociopaths have done that, not the posers.

This is beyond dishonest, and veers into propaganda. Especially considering that these murders went out of their way to associate themselves with Nazis, real or not.

I suggest you read the link below, and if you don't find yourself growing a bit uncomfortable with the tack you have taken here, there's no hope for you.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/daily...b0ce3b344492f2
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:16 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
My empathy for halfway Nazis is also pretty limited. The nature of these movements seems to be deeply rooted in internet nihilism and trolling culture. It's all one big joke meant to be shocking, except when it isn't a joke and someone memes their way to a massacre. At some point, people who are just s***posting should be expected to realize they are culpable for creating a toxic ideology of violence. The "it's just a prank" defense does not work here.

I think Pizzagate is an instructive example of this kind of stuff. My impression is that a large majority of the alt-right weirdos spreading that conspiracy really didn't believe it to be true. There's really no way to measure this definitely, but I suspect it was largely just internet trolls spreading havoc for the sake of havoc. When some impressionable idiot takes it seriously and barges into a pizza shop with a rifle, that's just a bonus.

The tip of the spear of these nationalist movements are people who sincerely believe all the rhetoric, but there is a large reserve of nihilist edgelords that are filling out the ranks to make it truly dangerous. It is increasingly clear that the boundary between true ideologue and nihilist memer is so permeable it may as well not exist.
This is a reasoned position, and I respect it, while disagreeing. The problem is that it too easily slips over to vigilante response to nazism and rationalizes collateral damage.

Recall the blasting that antifa received when they jumped a guy who was not a nationalist, but was carrying an American flag. This whole line of rationalizing goes downhill very fast.

What will the edgelords do when things escalate? I would think a mass mutiny, rather than mass support. Such is the fickleness of the poser, IME. But if they are made to be the full-fledged enemy, defensiveness may push them to full commitment. The trick is to ridicule them into oblivion without crossing legal lines and giving them credibility.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:35 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
And you have now not only demonstrated intellectual dishonesty, but egregious flat-out dishonesty. Let me know when you are capable of addressing the point, and not some ridiculous strawman.




This is beyond dishonest, and veers into propaganda. Especially considering that these murders went out of their way to associate themselves with Nazis, real or not.

I suggest you read the link below, and if you don't find yourself growing a bit uncomfortable with the tack you have taken here, there's no hope for you.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/daily...b0ce3b344492f2
Why don't you try honest discussion instead of handwaving and insults? Might be a refreshing change.

You are quite openly advocating vigilantism and rationalizing collateral damage. You try to rationalize it as being 'only a little bit', but that's what the underlying theme of the thread is about. Is a little bit of illegal activity okay in the special case of nazis? Where do we draw the line, or do we bother with one? And of course, who is responsible for the escalation, and when things sometimes (inevitably) go wrong?

It's easy, as you do, to sit back and say it's ok to assault some people, and it's okay if lessers get thrown in the basket and treated like the worst offenders. How does your philosophy work in the real world?

A kid thinks it's super cool to throw an egg or milkshake at a nazi type. Totally rad, dude, I saw it happen on YouTube! now the guy he picks is a scrapper, and works him over. As we saw upthread, it would legally be considered self defense for the nazi. Not fair, agreed, but that's the law. Let's say the kid gets actually hurt. How good do you feel about your cowboy swagger?

Speculation, yes, but that's where your thinking leads. The good guys comply with law and work it in other viable ways.

You are advocating initiating illegal assault, petty though it may be. You further advocate not being concerned with collateral damage or even having responsibility for correctly identifying your target. These are not 'dishonest strawmen'; they are exactly what you claim. Own it.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:11 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
This is a reasoned position, and I respect it, while disagreeing. The problem is that it too easily slips over to vigilante response to nazism and rationalizes collateral damage.

Recall the blasting that antifa received when they jumped a guy who was not a nationalist, but was carrying an American flag. This whole line of rationalizing goes downhill very fast.
I don't speak for others in this thread, but I don't see the egging or other more serious violence as acceptable, regardless of the target. My personal gratification in seeing unpleasant things happen to wicked people is not a reflection of good governance. I remain skeptical of the effects these antifa actually achieve by engaging in street violence. I think it is unlikely to dissuade right wing extremism and only work to create an environment where street violence is tolerated. The cities that have been largely taking a "hands off" approach to these brawls have a lot to answer for and are playing with fire that could easily get out of control. These nazis want to fight, but they don't want to go to jail or get killed by the police, so antifa are really giving them a wonderful opportunity to engage in violence without serious repercussion.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What will the edgelords do when things escalate? I would think a mass mutiny, rather than mass support. Such is the fickleness of the poser, IME. But if they are made to be the full-fledged enemy, defensiveness may push them to full commitment. The trick is to ridicule them into oblivion without crossing legal lines and giving them credibility.
I contend that we are currently in a state of escalation and there has been no mutiny. 8chan memes are being directly cited by right wing terrorists. Plausible deniability is growing extremely thin.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:16 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I contend that we are currently in a state of escalation and there has been no mutiny. 8chan memes are being directly cited by right wing terrorists. Plausible deniability is growing extremely thin.
Nonsense the Christchurch shooter was just a more extreme edgelord taking it to the next level, not a real white supremacist. The use of memes to make people think he was a white supremacist are a dead giveaway. That is why that really can't be counted as a white supremacist terrorist attack but really is just next level internet trolling.

He needs to be properly identified as a edgelord troll not a terrorist.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:20 AM   #530
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't speak for others in this thread, but I don't see the egging or other more serious violence as acceptable, regardless of the target. My personal gratification in seeing unpleasant things happen to wicked people is not a reflection of good governance. I remain skeptical of the effects these antifa actually achieve by engaging in street violence. I think it is unlikely to dissuade right wing extremism and only work to create an environment where street violence is tolerated. The cities that have been largely taking a "hands off" approach to these brawls have a lot to answer for and are playing with fire that could easily get out of control. These nazis want to fight, but they don't want to go to jail or get killed by the police, so antifa are really giving them a wonderful opportunity to engage in violence without serious repercussion.
Agreed, in particular the hilited. Whether law enforcement or individuals with eggs, predictable escalation has to be factored.

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I contend that we are currently in a state of escalation and there has been no mutiny. 8chan memes are being directly cited by right wing terrorists. Plausible deniability is growing extremely thin.
Not sure we are quite there yet, but certainly hovering around the brink somewhere. I think there was quite a mutiny in that Unite the Right 2 in DC. The alts punked out en masse, but the antis showed stronger numbers. That's what convinces me that the posers are the larger faction, and will turn tail if things get ugly.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:27 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Nonsense the Christchurch shooter was just a more extreme edgelord taking it to the next level, not a real white supremacist. The use of memes to make people think he was a white supremacist are a dead giveaway. That is why that really can't be counted as a white supremacist terrorist attack but really is just next level internet trolling.

He needs to be properly identified as a edgelord troll not a terrorist.
At some point, the difference between a troll terrorist and a real terrorist is one without distinction. Poe's terrorist, so to speak.

A person publishes a manifesto ranting about brown folks invading the white homeland and then goes and kills a bunch of those exact people at a mosque. That's a white supremacist, no matter how many winks or inside jokes he makes.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:31 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
My empathy for halfway Nazis is also pretty limited.
Rule of law is not based on empathy, though. Empathy is good for tempering justice with mercy - another important trait of a healthy society. But that's not what's happening in this thread. Here, lack of empathy is being put forward as the motivation for why both justice and mercy should be set aside.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:32 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
At some point, the difference between a troll terrorist and a real terrorist is one without distinction. Poe's terrorist, so to speak.

A person publishes a manifesto ranting about brown folks invading the white homeland and then goes and kills a bunch of those exact people at a mosque. That's a white supremacist, no matter how many winks or inside jokes he makes.
Let me know when you find a murderer on the street and assault them because of their murders.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:34 AM   #534
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
At some point, the difference between a troll terrorist and a real terrorist is one without distinction. Poe's terrorist, so to speak.

A person publishes a manifesto ranting about brown folks invading the white homeland and then goes and kills a bunch of those exact people at a mosque. That's a white supremacist, no matter how many winks or inside jokes he makes.
Sure it just shows the whole idea of the fake white supremacist is a ruse to pretend it is not as much of a problem as it really is. Though really it is the Trumps and Carlson's bringing white supremacy mainstream who are more of a true threat in general than the ones wearing swastikas.
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:22 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Why don't you try honest discussion instead of handwaving and insults? Might be a refreshing change.
Why don't you take your own advice and try honest discussion instead of blatantly disingenuous characterizations like this:

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It's easy, as you do, to sit back and say it's ok to assault some people, and it's okay if lessers get thrown in the basket and treated like the worst offenders. How does your philosophy work in the real world?
The "lessers that get thrown into the basket" are getting egged. That's not what's happening to the "worst offenders". The worst offenders go to jail, if they don't die in a hail of police bullets or by their own hand first.
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:39 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well no

He is obviously an idiot who has a fixation with Nazism and waves flags around and says he is a Nazi.

I meant that people are starting to say anyone who voted for the wrong person in the US are now being labelled Nazi's. Or at the very least far right racists.

It is pathetic
Starting to say? They've been saying since Trump was elected. Today a "Nazi" is anybody to the right of Bernie Sanders.
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Old 6th May 2019, 10:50 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Why don't you take your own advice and try honest discussion instead of blatantly disingenuous characterizations like this:



The "lessers that get thrown into the basket" are getting egged. That's not what's happening to the "worst offenders". The worst offenders go to jail, if they don't die in a hail of police bullets or by their own hand first.
You forgot to read the post I was responding to. Luchog said they were not concerned with posers getting the same treatment as actual Nazis. Your criticism makes no sense, except as a mindless point score. Didn't we finish that up a couple days ago?
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Old 6th May 2019, 11:03 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You forgot to read the post I was responding to. Luchog said they were not concerned with posers getting the same treatment as actual Nazis. Your criticism makes no sense, except as a mindless point score. Didn't we finish that up a couple days ago?
How do you decide someone is a poser vs a "real" nazi? Why is their self identification as a nazi not enough?

Are all true nazi's really Scotsmen or something?

Really this sounds a lot like Trumps "good people on both sides" statements about how just because someone is advocating white supremacy and identifying as a white supremacist that is no reason to consider them a white supremacist or racist.
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Old 6th May 2019, 11:21 AM   #539
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You forgot to read the post I was responding to. Luchog said they were not concerned with posers getting the same treatment as actual Nazis.
And neither am I; because when it comes to standing on a corner or sitting on a website and wearing the iconography and spouting propaganda, the line between a "real" Nazi doing these things and a "poser" doing these things is academic.

And what, again, is your criteria for separating these two? A demonstrated attempt to commit genocide I seem to recall is what you, or at least someone here supporting your argument, evoked - which is something that neither is even theoretically able to actually do until they have established a majority government. They can certainly try their personal best by slaughtering a black church or a synagogue full of Jews; but the historic record of these attempts has been repeatedly brought up to you and you've repeatedly rejected it as not "good enough". In other words, you've established a criteria that is currently impossible to meet even in theory, which you have to know essentially defines Nazis out of modern existence entirely, and yet you continue this bad faith tactic of arguing as if you do accept their existence and are merely upset that we're not being diligent enough to tell them from what you call "posers".

When a Nazi does not have a majority government enabling him to commit the atrocities for which the Nazi ideology is so infamous, all he even CAN do, is stand there and wear the symbols and wave a flag and spout propaganda and try to sneak his way into random election wins, just like a "wannabe". The difference is you demand we recognize doesn't even exist.
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Old 6th May 2019, 03:56 PM   #540
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Old 6th May 2019, 05:14 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
How do you decide someone is a poser vs a "real" nazi? Why is their self identification as a nazi not enough?
I've been wondering this for a while.

In addition, I'm wondering how Thermal has determined that we are actually advocating egg throwing, not merely pretending to, just to get a rise out of people.
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Old 6th May 2019, 05:20 PM   #542
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Old 6th May 2019, 05:21 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I've been wondering this for a while.



In addition, I'm wondering how Thermal has determined that we are actually advocating egg throwing, not merely pretending to, just to get a rise out of people.
Well apparently real Nazis kill people.

Which is why we have to egg them before they kill again. Or ever. Or maybe? Somewhere between the swastika and the violence, the violators seem to get very fuzzy in their thinking.

tl;dr - "Nazis"
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Old 6th May 2019, 05:22 PM   #544
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Real men don't eat quiche
Or Chicago-style pizza, which is essentially a spicy cheese quiche.
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:07 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well apparently real Nazis kill people.

Which is why we have to egg them before they kill again. Or ever. Or maybe? Somewhere between the swastika and the violence, the violators seem to get very fuzzy in their thinking.

tl;dr - "Nazis"
I have no idea what you're saying.
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:12 PM   #546
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I have no idea what you're saying.
People who advocate political violence in reply to political speech are exactly the murderous douchebags they pretend to oppose, in the service of gratifying their perverse politico-sexual urges.
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:21 PM   #547
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
People who advocate political violence in reply to political speech are exactly the murderous douchebags they pretend to oppose, in the service of gratifying their perverse politico-sexual urges.
Sounds like you're saying that anyone who advocates egg-throwing is as bad as anyone who advocates a second Holocaust. That would be pretty stupid, so I hope I'm misreading you. I'll allow you to clarify.
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:26 PM   #548
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
People who advocate political violence[1] in reply to political speech[2] are exactly the murderous douchebags[3] they pretend to oppose[4], in the service of gratifying their perverse politico-sexual urges[5].
1. Low grade violence, namely breaking eggs on people, and only this.
2. People emboldened to flaunt the symbols of genocide, white supremacy, and race hate.
3. Extraordinary (absurd) claim made without evidence.
4. See 3.
5. Lol
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:34 PM   #549
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Sounds like you're saying that anyone who advocates egg-throwing is as bad as anyone who advocates a second Holocaust. That would be pretty stupid, so I hope I'm misreading you. I'll allow you to clarify.
Wishing eggy harm on people exercising their God given First Amendment rights gives you a boner. Or something.
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Last edited by Sideroxylon; 6th May 2019 at 07:09 PM. Reason: No demonic possession involved
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:39 PM   #550
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Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison was just egged as he left a meeting of the Country Womens' Association (CWA). The Federal Election is two weeks away.

The egg did not break.
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:51 PM   #551
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison was just egged as he left a meeting of the Country Womens' Association (CWA). The Federal Election is two weeks away.

The egg did not break.
As much as I don’t like his politics, he is not in the same category as Fraser Anning or others mentioned in this thread. Following that incident, Morrison’s focus of sympathy seemed to be on the disproportionate use of force on the young man who attacked Anning with the egg.

'Full force of the law' should apply to Fraser Anning after egging incident, Morrison says
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-morrison-says

I don’t agree with the attack on Morrison and do see how the idea of who makes for a target has potential to blur and spread. It will get dealt with by the law sufficiently and Morrison will soon forget it.
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:10 PM   #552
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
As much as I don’t like his politics, he is not in the same category as Fraser Anning or others mentioned in this thread. Following that incident, Morrison’s focus of sympathy seemed to be on the disproportionate use of force on the young man who attacked Anning with the egg.

'Full force of the law' should apply to Fraser Anning after egging incident, Morrison says
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-morrison-says

I don’t agree with the attack on Morrison and do see how the idea of who makes for a target has potential to blur and spread. It will get dealt with by the law sufficiently and Morrison will soon forget it.
Maybe the people who think egging is fantastic can sit down together and write up a list of who THEY think should be allowed to be egged and who shouldn't be egged?

I say they as obviously only their opinion counts.

We wouldn't want people to get confused and egg the wrong people again like Scott Morrison
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:26 PM   #553
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Was Scott Morrison injured?

Then meh.

However, security rushing to football-tackle the unsuccessful egg-violencer as if she was some kind of would-be assassin waving a loaded pistol around, DID reportedly knock over an elderly woman who as a result had breathing difficulties. That bystander could have been severely injured, the only one injured at all actually, in a scuffle over an egg that in this case didn't even break.

And that is why regardless of how useful an emotional argument being able to call egging "violent" and "assault" is, treating it or reacting to it like some kind of dangerous physical threat is a vast overreaction. The "assailant" could easily have been divested of her instruments of criminal violence and calmly escorted from the room without incident or disruption, or real danger to other people present.

Listen to how this politician reacts to being egged:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:31 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Was Scott Morrison injured?

Then meh.

However, security rushing to football-tackle the unsuccessful egg-violencer as if she was some kind of would-be assassin waving a loaded pistol around, DID reportedly knock over an elderly woman who as a result had breathing difficulties. That bystander could have been severely injured, the only one injured at all actually, in a scuffle over an egg that in this case didn't even break.

And that is why regardless of how useful an emotional argument being able to call egging "violent" and "assault" is, treating it or reacting to it like some kind of dangerous physical threat is a vast overreaction. The "assailant" could easily have been divested of her instruments of criminal violence and calmly escorted from the room without incident or disruption, or real danger to other people present.

Listen to how this politician reacts to being egged:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Unfortunate for the by stander, but if it was the thrower, would you be outraged or think meh?
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:35 PM   #555
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Unfortunate for the by stander, but if it was the thrower, would you be outraged or think meh?
An injury in exchange for something decidedly non-injurious, is not an acceptable response in such a case as this.
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:37 PM   #556
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Unfortunate for the by stander, but if it was the thrower, would you be outraged or think meh?
As I pointed out, in the Anning incident Morrison was outraged that the thrower was the victim of disproportionate violence. He seems not a fan of white supremists either.
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:49 PM   #557
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
An injury in exchange for something decidedly non-injurious, is not an acceptable response in such a case as this.
Tough luck

You biff an egg at someones head, be prepared to be hit back
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:51 PM   #558
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
As I pointed out, in the Anning incident Morrison was outraged that the thrower was the victim of disproportionate violence. He seems not a fan of white supremists either.
Same reply as my last one

Throw egg. Be prepared to get hit

Even more for that little thug

He smacked his hand into his head with and egg. Not just threw it
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:07 PM   #559
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
And neither am I; because when it comes to standing on a corner or sitting on a website and wearing the iconography and spouting propaganda, the line between a "real" Nazi doing these things and a "poser" doing these things is academic.

And what, again, is your criteria for separating these two?
That's the rub, isn't it? How do you determine who has murderous intent versus being a white power punk who actually doesn't want to kill anyone, anywhere, but adopts a symbol? I can't read their minds...but neither can you. Which is another point I have been working here. Meanings that you ascribe to symbols or ideology may not be held by them. Take the OP guy. I think he was taking the pseudo intellectual approach, with the nazi junk for pizazz. Stupid, tasteless, and even cruel, but not actually advocating murder. That's the type of neo-nazi I have seen. People who advocate mass killing are far more rare than posters here seem to think, IMHO.

What difference does it make, you say? When you adopt the gunslinger mentality that seems all the rage on this thread, ya best be right about who you are assaulting and why. Your personal thoughts don't cut it. You need to be really confident in where that person's head is at, and I don't think we really can be. You can have strong beliefs, and challenge him on your convictions, but when you decide to step outside the law and act (and let's drop the pretense that you and others are not advocating just that),your personal feels are not enough to justify squat.

Put concretely: people sometimes wear gold crosses. What can you assume about them? That they are Christian? What do Christians believe? Stoning people to death for hundreds of offenses, right? Or might that symbol have more individual meaning, that it is tough for you to glean?

A swastika is obviously more specific. But as I said earlier, I am reminded of Malibu surfer Miki Dora. He wore one for shock value, not because he wanted to gas Jews. I don't think that it always has the definitive meaning that many very understandably see in it.

Quote:
A demonstrated attempt to commit genocide I seem to recall is what you, or at least someone here supporting your argument, evoked - which is something that neither is even theoretically able to actually do until they have established a majority government. They can certainly try their personal best by slaughtering a black church or a synagogue full of Jews; but the historic record of these attempts has been repeatedly brought up to you and you've repeatedly rejected it as not "good enough". In other words, you've established a criteria that is currently impossible to meet even in theory, which you have to know essentially defines Nazis out of modern existence entirely, and yet you continue this bad faith tactic of arguing as if you do accept their existence and are merely upset that we're not being diligent enough to tell them from what you call "posers".
No. Wasn't me, and I don't recall anyone else saying that. So just no.

Quote:
When a Nazi does not have a majority government enabling him to commit the atrocities for which the Nazi ideology is so infamous, all he even CAN do, is stand there and wear the symbols and wave a flag and spout propaganda and try to sneak his way into random election wins, just like a "wannabe". The difference is you demand we recognize doesn't even exist.
Not so. What I am saying is that you don't read minds, and know what someone thinks. If they cop to it, then you do. Till then, you can only have suspicions. I suspect that someone wearing a cross wants you to think they are a Christian, or give the impression of being one, but I don't think it remotely means they actually are one.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:27 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
An injury in exchange for something decidedly non-injurious, is not an acceptable response in such a case as this.
There it is again: you want to be able to assault someone, and if they are not injured, you want to be able to walk away scot-free. Doesn't work that way.

This latest egging is staring to show the signs of what I and others are pointing out. The egg didn't even break, but an elderly lady was knocked over. She's okay. That's a good thing. But inevitably, things are going to go wrong. Then who will have egg on their face?
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