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Tags 2020 elections , Elizabeth Warren , Massachusetts politics , presidential candidates , racial isssues

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Old 3rd November 2018, 11:13 AM   #2801
Vixen
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Could you explain this to us simple folk. What is the difference between coming by a part of your ancestry "by blood" and "through marriage"? There is no difference from what I can see. "Blood" ties are merely family/parental ties and being married or not makes no never mind. Unless you're talking about the current generation, those old marriages make up "blood" ties. (Current generation, obviously... I'm married to a Thai; I do not claim Thai ancestry. My son, however, is American-Thai. Are you claiming that his claim on Thainess is not legitimate because his daddy married into it? That makes no sense.)
Your son is Thai, his cousin on your US side probably is not. His second cousin on the US side, almost certainly not.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 11:36 AM   #2802
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A second cousin even one times two, means there is even more chance the presumed NA 'heritage' comes through marriage rather than blood. All it means is that you share the same great-grandparents.

Please explain in which way Harry Gunn Reed 'looks NA'?
You missed the point. In Mapes' family, the story passed down is that Warren and her shared great-grandfather had NA blood (not by marriage). She is telling the same family story of NA ancestry as Warren.

As for your question, you are baiting me in order to set up an accusation of racism. I know you far too well to fall for that.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 3rd November 2018 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 11:39 AM   #2803
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Your son is Thai, his cousin on your US side probably is not. His second cousin on the US side, almost certainly not.
That's because her son and his cousins share no common ancestor on the Thai side. Mapes and Warren do: Harry Gunn Reed.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 12:25 PM   #2804
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You missed the point. In Mapes' family, the story passed down is that Warren and her shared great-grandfather had NA blood (not marriage). She is telling the same family story of NA ancestry as Warren.

As for your question, you are baiting me in order to set up an accusation of racism. I know you far too well to fall for that.
Not being funny, but HARRY appears to have the long skull so fetishised by Hitler and the Nazis.
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Last edited by Vixen; 3rd November 2018 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 12:28 PM   #2805
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Not being funny, but HARRY appears to have the long skull so fetishised by Hitler and the Nazis.
What's the point in putting Harry in all caps?
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Old 3rd November 2018, 01:07 PM   #2806
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This is absurd.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 01:25 PM   #2807
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
This is absurd.
Yes. Stacyhs producing a photo of Warren's grandfather seemingly to illustrate his Native Indian appearance is utterly bonkers as there is zero resemblance.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 01:44 PM   #2808
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yes. Stacyhs producing a photo of Warren's grandfather seemingly to illustrate his Native Indian appearance is utterly bonkers as there is zero resemblance.
Yeah, that's not the absurd part. Try again.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 02:16 PM   #2809
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yes. Stacyhs producing a photo of Warren's grandfather seemingly to illustrate his Native Indian appearance is utterly bonkers as there is zero resemblance.
And this coming from the poster who thinks that a couple who went to the next town to get married and returned the next day to announce their marriage to the surprise of their friends didn't 'elope' because they:
1) weren't underage
2) weren't married by a justice of the peace but by a minister.
3) couldn't have married quickly because the banns weren't published...when
banns aren't required by their church.

This coming from a poster who thinks that she knows

1) what stories were...or weren't...passed down in a family in
another country 50- 100 years ago.
2) what Warren's grandparents thought.
3) what Warren's grandparents felt.
4) what Warren's grandparent knew.

Oy vey.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 02:17 PM   #2810
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A second cousin even one times two, means there is even more chance the presumed NA 'heritage' comes through marriage rather than blood. All it means is that you share the same great-grandparents.
Bwahahaha! That is just sheer ignorance at its worst.

If you share the same grandparents with someone else, THEN YOU ARE BOTH BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF THOSE GRANDPARENTS.

You really don't understand this? Good luck digging yourself out of that one as you refuse to admit you got it wrong.... again!
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Last edited by smartcooky; 3rd November 2018 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 02:28 PM   #2811
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A second cousin even one times two, means there is even more chance the presumed NA 'heritage' comes through marriage rather than blood. All it means is that you share the same great-grandparents.

Please explain in which way Harry Gunn Reed 'looks NA'?
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Bwahahaha! That is just sheer ignorance at its worst.

If you share the same grandparents with someone else, THEN YOU ARE BOTH BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF THOSE GRANDPARENTS.

You really don't understand this? Good luck digging yourself out of that one as you refuse to admit you got it wrong.... again!
But it will be fun watching the attempt.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 03:14 PM   #2812
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Bwahahaha! That is just sheer ignorance at its worst.

If you share the same grandparents with someone else, THEN YOU ARE BOTH BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF THOSE GRANDPARENTS.

You really don't understand this? Good luck digging yourself out of that one as you refuse to admit you got it wrong.... again!
You don't know if those brothers shared the same parents. One might have had a different father or mother.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 03:38 PM   #2813
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You don't know if those brothers shared the same parents. One might have had a different father or mother.
I said it would be fun to watch. And it is.

Parents: Joseph Reed and Charity Reed
Brothers: Everett Bunn Reed (1870, Harry Gunn Reed (1872), Berlie Joseph Reed (1872) (all listed as children of Joseph and Charity)

Notice that Harry is the middle child so we know Joseph and Charity were married to each other at the time of his birth. So, unless you want to accuse Charity of having an affair and getting pregnant by that lover with either Harry or Berlie Joseph, I'd say they all have the same parents.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 03:39 PM   #2814
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You don't know if those brothers shared the same parents. One might have had a different father or mother.
Might have. Or even your own mother might someone other than who you think! Since that is a distinct possibility, that means that nobody can know their heritage for sure. And since you can't know for sure that means any declaration you make other than "don't know" is dishonest.

"Ah but", you say, "I do know because I remember being born, and I definitely came out of my own mother's womb!". But that could be a false memory, or someone who just looked like your mother, or you might be in The Matrix. Either way you still don't know for sure who your own mother is.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 05:25 PM   #2815
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You don't know if those brothers shared the same parents. One might have had a different father or mother.
Ah, so you are now you are going to pull out of left field something that you have no idea whether it is true or NOT (and the case of Warren and her family, it is definitely NOT true) in order to avoid admitting you are wrong.

Your sheer dishonestly is both breathtaking and boundless. You're like one of those Moon Hoax conspiracy theorists; always making up or inventing new and highly implausible scenarios to keep the alleged conspiracy alive.

You shovel must be getting worn out by now... you should go buy a new one
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Old 3rd November 2018, 07:21 PM   #2816
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Ah, so you are now you are going to pull out of left field something that you have no idea whether it is true or NOT (and the case of Warren and her family, it is definitely NOT true) in order to avoid admitting you are wrong.

Your sheer dishonestly is both breathtaking and boundless. You're like one of those Moon Hoax conspiracy theorists; always making up or inventing new and highly implausible scenarios to keep the alleged conspiracy alive.

You shovel must be getting worn out by now... you should go buy a new one
HARRY GUNN REED, Warren's grandfather is some kind of Delaware Native American?

That's not what the DNA test says.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 07:42 PM   #2817
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
HARRY GUNN REED, Warren's grandfather is some kind of Delaware Native American?

That's not what the DNA test says.
Irrelevant. Its not what I am taking you to task for.

You made a statement that was wrong on its face...

Quote:
A second cousin even one times two, means there is even more chance the presumed NA 'heritage' comes through marriage rather than blood. All it means is that you share the same great-grandparents.
THIS IS WRONG!

Your making up of angels on pinheads scenarios to try to weasel out of it does not stop you from being WRONG. Just admit it!
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 3rd November 2018, 08:23 PM   #2818
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
HARRY GUNN REED, Warren's grandfather is some kind of Delaware Native American?

That's not what the DNA test says.
To your question: possibly.

To your statement : obviously. Does it say that he is not? (Interpreting "some kind of Delaware Indian" as "someone who has some Delaware Indian 'blood' ")
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Old 3rd November 2018, 09:44 PM   #2819
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Your son is Thai, his cousin on your US side probably is not. His second cousin on the US side, almost certainly not.
But we're not talking about the current (my son's) generation as "ground zero". We're talking about four and five generations back. His current Thai cousins can obviously make no such claim on Neapolitano/Sicilian blood but that's not what Warren's case is all about. She's claiming lineage through her parents and grandparents. That's blood. Once the current generation "marries in", the ensuing generations from that line have "blood ties". And since we're talking about the ensuing generations this is just a diversion and has no bearing on the discussion.
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Old 3rd November 2018, 11:51 PM   #2820
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If you share the same grandparents with someone else, THEN YOU ARE BOTH BLOOD DESCENDANTS OF THOSE GRANDPARENTS.
And even if you shared just one grandparent with a person, that grandparent is still a blood ancestor of the two of you.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You really don't understand this? Good luck digging yourself out of that one as you refuse to admit you got it wrong.... again!
That level of obtuseness is truly heroic - I'm thinking it has to be deliberate. I share one great-grandmother with a writer cited in this thread. My grandfather and her grandfather are different people, however, because they had different fathers. They were half brothers, not stepbrothers.

It takes a high level of confusion to believe that marriage somehow creates a blood relationship. Or, some people just like the attention they get from nonsensical posts. Like a few pages back when it was claimed that being part Cherokee really means half Cherokee.

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Old 4th November 2018, 12:59 AM   #2821
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
HARRY GUNN REED, Warren's grandfather is some kind of Delaware Native American?

That's not what the DNA test says.
Sigh. Concentrate and see if you can follow this:

Quote:
Did Mapes’s father, a raven-haired lawyer, have Native American roots, or did he not? Mapes’s grandmother maintained that he had one-quarter tribal blood. But her mother wanted to hear nothing of it.
That would make Harry Reedpart Native American, possibly Delaware. However, the Delaware and the Creek merged so that could account for the stories of Delaware and/or Creek ancestry.

And yes, the DNA results do support NA ancestry.


Also contained in the Boston Globe article are interviews with other cousins of Warren and her brother who back up Warren's claims of family stories concerning Delaware and Cherokee ancestry.

Quote:
David Herring of Norman, Okla., one of Warren’s three brothers, said in an interview that even when he was a child his relatives were reluctant to talk about the family’s Native American heritage because “it was not popular in my family.’’ Only when he begged his grandparents, said Herring, did they finally explain to him: “Your grandfather is part Delaware, a little bitty bit, way back, and your grandmother is part Cherokee. It was not the most popular thing to do in Oklahoma. [Indians] were degraded, looked down on.’’

Warren’s brothers, Don, John, and David Herring, also issued a joint statement supporting their sister. “The people attacking Betsy and our family don’t know much about either. We grew up listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family’s Cherokee and Delaware heritage. They’ve passed away now, but they’d be angry if they were around today listening to all this.’’
Details of family stories, like the game "telephone, can change when passed down through the generations. A Delaware great-great-great grandparent can become a Cherokee great-great grandparent or vice versa.
But the fact that it was not only Warren, but her brothers and other cousins who also reported very similar stories being passed down is evidence that Warren was not lying as you previously claimed.

And no DNA test can determine whether someone is Delaware, Comanche, Apache, Arapaho, Sioux or any other specific tribe. Obviously then, the DNA test did not say Warren's grandfather "was some kind of Delaware Native American".

Last edited by Stacyhs; 4th November 2018 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 4th November 2018, 03:25 AM   #2822
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Quote:
Warren’s brothers, Don, John, and David Herring, also issued a joint statement supporting their sister. “The people attacking Betsy and our family don’t know much about either. We grew up listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family’s Cherokee and Delaware heritage. They’ve passed away now, but they’d be angry if they were around today listening to all this.’’
They might almost have read this thread.
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Old 4th November 2018, 05:42 AM   #2823
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
And even if you shared just one grandparent with a person, that grandparent is still a blood ancestor of the two of you.

That level of obtuseness is truly heroic - I'm thinking it has to be deliberate. I share one great-grandmother with a writer cited in this thread. My grandfather and her grandfather are different people, however, because they had different fathers. They were half brothers, not stepbrothers.

It takes a high level of confusion to believe that marriage somehow creates a blood relationship. Or, some people just like the attention they get from nonsensical posts. Like a few pages back when it was claimed that being part Cherokee really means half Cherokee.
A person has cousins and second cousins on the side of one parent and cousins and second cousins on the side of the other.

Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one, as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line. If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.

AIUI Warren claims the DNA is in the female line (her mother) so it seems surprising that her DNA test supposedly reflects her one-quarter grandfather.

It's a red flag it's now the male side, when Warren claimed it was the female one.
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Old 4th November 2018, 07:09 AM   #2824
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Here's a refresher course on DNA: Only sex-linked genes (those on the X chromosome itself) are handed down through the female line. When a male enters the line, he brings in one of his mother's X chromosomes, rather than a daughter receiving both one of her mother's X chromosomes and one of her father's mother's X chromosomes. There are 22 other chromosomes in a haploid cell which contain genetic information. These are also entirely separate from mitochondrial DNA, which is a different test. Stop digging, you're in the dark now. Making up stuff to support your position doesn't work when your audience knows your claims are ridiculous.
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Old 4th November 2018, 11:41 AM   #2825
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A person has cousins and second cousins on the side of one parent and cousins and second cousins on the side of the other.

Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one, as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line. If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.

AIUI Warren claims the DNA is in the female line (her mother) so it seems surprising that her DNA test supposedly reflects her one-quarter grandfather.

It's a red flag it's now the male side, when Warren claimed it was the female one.
Oh Dear, wrong again. You're not learning are you.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8595001.html
Warren's DNA was sequenced and analysed by a group led by Carlos Bustamante, a well-regarded Stanford University geneticist. Researchers studied a fraction - far less than 1/1,000th - of Ms Warren's DNA, and then compared it to the DNA of 148 people from Finland, Italy, Spain, China, Nigeria and North and South America. Additional comparison was done on 185 individuals from Utah and Great Britain.

As one might expect, the vast majority - 95 per cent - of Ms Warren's DNA indicated European ancestors. But five genetic segments were identified, with 99 per cent confidence, as being associated with Native American ancestry. The largest segment identified was on Chromosome 10.

"While the vast majority of the individual's ancestry is European, the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor in the individual's pedigree, likely in the range of 6-10 generations ago," the report said.
While Mr Bustamente, A REAL SCIENTIST who has been studying biophysics for over 40 years.....

Research Assistant, UC Berkeley (1976–1981)
Postdoctoral Fellow, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, UC Berkeley (1981–1982)
Assistant Professor, Department of Chemistry, University of New Mexico (1982–1986)
Associate Professor, Department of Chemistry, University of New Mexico (1986–1989)
Professor of Chemistry, Department of Chemistry, University of New Mexico (1989–1990)
Professor of Chemistry and Member of the Institute of Molecular Biology, University of Oregon (1991–1998)
Professor in Molecular and Cell Biology, Chemistry, and Physics, UC Berkeley (1998–present)
Honorary Professor, National University of San Marcos, Lima, Peru


.... is using all the skill and knowledge accumulated over a lifetime of study to complete HIS TASK, you, some Nellie Nobody on an internet forum, are making stuff up out of whole cloth, in a field of study where you clearly have ZERO understanding, all so that you can try to avoid admitting that YOU ARE WRONG!!!!

Read what Silly Green Monkey said... he/she is correct - especially the last sentence.

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Here's a refresher course on DNA: Only sex-linked genes (those on the X chromosome itself) are handed down through the female line. When a male enters the line, he brings in one of his mother's X chromosomes, rather than a daughter receiving both one of her mother's X chromosomes and one of her father's mother's X chromosomes. There are 22 other chromosomes in a haploid cell which contain genetic information. These are also entirely separate from mitochondrial DNA, which is a different test. Stop digging, you're in the dark now. Making up stuff to support your position doesn't work when your audience knows your claims are ridiculous.
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:12 PM   #2826
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A person has cousins and second cousins on the side of one parent and cousins and second cousins on the side of the other.

Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one, as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line. If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.

AIUI Warren claims the DNA is in the female line (her mother) so it seems surprising that her DNA test supposedly reflects her one-quarter grandfather.

It's a red flag it's now the male side, when Warren claimed it was the female one.
Wrong again. Warren's test would have been autosomal, not mitochondrial.

Quote:
Autosomal DNA tests trace a person’s autosomal chromosomes, which contain the segments of DNA the person shares with everyone to whom they’re related (maternally and paternally, both directly and indirectly).
Quote:
Autosomal DNA tests can confirm ethnicity percentages and close relationships with a high level of accuracy.
(Ancestry.com)

Time to park the backhoe.
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:14 PM   #2827
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
They might almost have read this thread.
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:18 PM   #2828
jimbob
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
A person has cousins and second cousins on the side of one parent and cousins and second cousins on the side of the other.

Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one,
No it isn't see Smartcooky's comment about the markers being on Chromosome 10. The clue is in the name "chromosome"
Quote:
as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line.
You are confused. Whilst it is indeed true that the mother provides one X chromosome to her daughters, the father provides the other. The Y chromosome is passed down through the male line, and the mitochondrial DNA is passed down through the female line, but if my daughter has a child, there is a 50% chance that the X-chromosome that that child inherits from their mother will come from me, and my daughter's paternal grandmother. Of course there is a 50% chance that the X-chromosome would come from my daughter's mother.

There is a simple table below that hopefully makes it clear that the father contributes an X-chromosome to any daughter
 ChildMotherFather 
 girlX+mitochondriaX 
 boyX+mitochondriaY 

Quote:
If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.
As has been said before, that is utterly misunderstanding how DNA analysis works.

Just because one can look at the X-chromosome or Y-chromosome, one isn't limited to it


Quote:
AIUI Warren claims the DNA is in the female line (her mother) so it seems surprising that her DNA test supposedly reflects her one-quarter grandfather.

It's a red flag it's now the male side, when Warren claimed it was the female one.
No that is your misunderstanding of the science.
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

Last edited by jimbob; 4th November 2018 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:25 PM   #2829
Minoosh
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one, as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line. If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.

Ancestry.com FAQ

Quote:
The AncestryDNA test analyzes your entire genome—all 23 pairs of chromosomes—as opposed to only looking at the Y-chromosome or mitochondrial DNA (which makes other types of tests gender specific). Your autosomal chromosomes carry genetic information from both your parents that's passed down through the generations.
Having read through large portions of this thread I have concluded you don't know what you're talking about. I almost envy the confidence you have invested in statement after statement that turned out to be wildly erroneous. You've helped make this thread very informative, due to people scurrying to demonstrate that you are spectacularly wrong, once again. If that's a deliberate educational technique, my hat is off to you. It's quite effective. However, if you actually believe the horse**** you keep peddling, your confidence in your own declarations is monumentally delusional.
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:31 PM   #2830
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It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character.
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Old 4th November 2018, 01:43 PM   #2831
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I wonder if Native ancestry is passed on more prevalently from the female side, though. A white man taking an Indian wife seems like it would be more common than a white woman marrying a Native American, just because I imagine white women were relatively rare in the cowboys-and-Indians days. But as for consumer DNA tests looking only at mitochondrial DNA, wrong. And as explained above, even that does not ignore ancestry from the father's side. And after one generation you might find half-native men who could take white wives, if they "passed" enough to dilute extant bigotry.

My adopted brother was found by his birth family when he and a man who had the same father both took DNA tests and opted-in to the part of the program that finds relatives. They talked on the phone and the stories fit. Somehow from that he was able to find out who his birth mother was. (Both birth parents married other people and had more kids). It took a little work because both birth parents had died, so this was pieced together from bits of family lore.

If ONLY the "female" genetic material was tested, how could a DNA test connect two half-brothers who shared the same father? I mean, it could all be a hoax, but I doubt it. My mother unfortunately has dementia and does not remember that she met my brother's birth mom, but she did. She can't confirm any of the rest of the story. My brother does have a photo, though, and the family resemblance is clear.

I feel slightly bereft that "my" brother has 7 half-siblings in the American SE, and I kind of understand a little why some Native Americans would react negatively to Warren's DNA declaration. Because being a member of a tribe, or a family, is more than having Native American ancestors. But she never claimed or suggested that she was a tribal member, so that criticism is IMO misguided.
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Old 4th November 2018, 02:00 PM   #2832
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I wonder if Native ancestry is passed on more prevalently from the female side, though. A white man taking an Indian wife seems like it would be more common than a white woman marrying a Native American, just because I imagine white women were relatively rare in the cowboys-and-Indians days. But as for consumer DNA tests looking only at mitochondrial DNA, wrong. And as explained above, even that does not ignore ancestry from the father's side. And after one generation you might find half-native men who could take white wives, if they "passed" enough to dilute extant bigotry.

My adopted brother was found by his birth family when he and a man who had the same father both took DNA tests and opted-in to the part of the program that finds relatives. They talked on the phone and the stories fit. Somehow from that he was able to find out who his birth mother was. (Both birth parents married other people and had more kids). It took a little work because both birth parents had died, so this was pieced together from bits of family lore.

If ONLY the "female" genetic material was tested, how could a DNA test connect two half-brothers who shared the same father? I mean, it could all be a hoax, but I doubt it. My mother unfortunately has dementia and does not remember that she met my brother's birth mom, but she did. She can't confirm any of the rest of the story. My brother does have a photo, though, and the family resemblance is clear.

I feel slightly bereft that "my" brother has 7 half-siblings in the American SE, and I kind of understand a little why some Native Americans would react negatively to Warren's DNA declaration. Because being a member of a tribe, or a family, is more than having Native American ancestors. But she never claimed or suggested that she was a tribal member, so that criticism is IMO misguided.
It absolutely was more common for a white man to marry (or have children with outside of "Christian marriage") a NA woman than vice-versa. As you said, this was due to the lack of available white women on the frontiers of westward movement. I think it also had a lot to do with what society would accept from men vs women. Men had 'needs' whereas a woman would be scorned if she partnered with an Indian.
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Old 4th November 2018, 02:29 PM   #2833
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I wonder if Native ancestry is passed on more prevalently from the female side, though. A white man taking an Indian wife seems like it would be more common than a white woman marrying a Native American, just because I imagine white women were relatively rare in the cowboys-and-Indians days.
A very valid point, but that has to do with statistics, not genetics.
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