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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 11th July 2019, 07:25 AM   #961
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Knox and Sollecito were fairly and unequivocally rightly convicted after a lengthy, thorough and fair trial, heavily slanted in their favour and Massei bending over backwards to accommodate them.
Stacy, make that 12....
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Old 11th July 2019, 07:41 AM   #962
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Ermmmm.....

1) You do realise, don't you, that in criminal trials there can never be any level of equivocation in any case (it's a purely binary outcome: guilty or not guilty)?

2) Once again, I strongly suggest that you read the Marasca MR slowly and carefully. You'll maybe then understand what the Supreme Court correctly concluded, and what pro-acquittal/pro-innocence commentators here had also long since correctly concluded: that the Massei and Nencini trials were in fact not fair or thorough, but rather they were incompetently run, they were based on terminally tainted/unreliable "evidence", and they in no way applied the law properly in the way they assessed evidence (choosing instead to start from the premise of unquestioningly believing the prosecution case).


Seriously, it's high time your "arguments" were based on a proper education - both in the law in general, and in the dynamics and verdicts in this particular case. But that will never happen of course: there are none so blind as those who will not see......
Vixen was kind enough to make back to back posts that underscore how she thinks...

Quote:
Knox and Sollecito were fairly and unequivocally rightly convicted after a lengthy, thorough and fair trial, heavily slanted in their favour and Massei bending over backwards to accommodate them.
Quote:
Of course, Marasca retired immediately afterwards so he doesn't have to worry about consequences but I wonder how he sleeps at night after his disgraceful performance in this matter.
This is how Vixen manages to justify her beliefs - she denigrates anyone who supported innocence, praises those who supported guilt. It's not just judges... C&V are corrupt and incompetent, Stefanoni is an honest, hard working, competent expert. The power of confirmation bias clearly on display for all to see.
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Old 11th July 2019, 07:56 AM   #963
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Knox and Sollecito were fairly and unequivocally rightly convicted after a lengthy, thorough and fair trial, heavily slanted in their favour and Massei bending over backwards to accommodate them.
It's a mystery why someone would need this sort of rhetoric. The "heavily slanted in their favour" included Judge Massei refusing to allow an independent forensic-DNA analysis of Stefanoni's work.

When this independent analysis was granted at the next trial, the deficiencies of that work were exposed. The pair were acquitted.

If I were wanting to engage in undue rhetoric, I'd have said that Massei had been participating in a coverup of the original investigative work in Perugia, one that the eventual acquitting court, the 2015 Supreme Court, noted had been "amnesiac". But there's no need to engage in that sort of rhetoric now - the pair - RS and AK - are free and clear.
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Last edited by Bill Williams; 11th July 2019 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 11th July 2019, 08:32 AM   #964
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Perugia Prosecutor's office in legal trouble

I don't know if I am reading this report correctly. Auto-translate can be a bear sometimes.

But from my read, the current Perugia Prosecutor's office is being investigated for:
- potential fraud for pocketing funds meant for the transcribing of interrogations, when the transcribing never happened

- fraudulent conflict of interest in relation to a local entrepreneur.
You'd think they would learn. It reads like they continue to abuse the powers granted to them in their anti-Mafia investigations.

http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/i...-VYWjhsj3_wIok
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Old 11th July 2019, 08:56 AM   #965
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
I don't know if I am reading this report correctly. Auto-translate can be a bear sometimes.

But from my read, the current Perugia Prosecutor's office is being investigated for:
- potential fraud for pocketing funds meant for the transcribing of interrogations, when the transcribing never happened

- fraudulent conflict of interest in relation to a local entrepreneur.
You'd think they would learn. It reads like they continue to abuse the powers granted to them in their anti-Mafia investigations.

http://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/i...-VYWjhsj3_wIok
The headline and first paragraphs, Google translation:

"Prosecutor Antonella Duchini is under investigation, heavy charges: the prosecutor's office asks for an extension of the investigation

The Florence prosecutor's investigation against the former deputy Antonella Duchini was requested for another six months, for years under the Perugia Anti-Mafia District Directorate


Prosecutor Antonella Duchini is under investigation, heavy charges: the prosecutor's office asks for an extension of the investigation

"The investigation by the prosecutor's office of Florence against the former deputy Antonella Duchini was requested for another six months, for years under the Perugia Anti-Mafia District Directorate to which the hypotheses of embezzlement, ideological falsehood, are disputed. corruption for an act contrary to official duties, corruption in judicial proceedings." "

Yep. Sounds like there are problems in the Perugia prosecutor's office.

I wonder when it started and which prosecutors could be accused of ideological falsehood - which is a literal translation of an Italian legal charge which could be better translated as "falsification of official documents". It's one of the charges that Mignini claimed Amanda Knox was implicitly leveling against him and the police when she testified about the interrogation of Nov. 5/6, 2007 in Massei's court.
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Old 11th July 2019, 09:13 AM   #966
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's clear what happened. In the final appeal hearing, Bongiorno was allowed two and a half days and 360 pages of appeal compared to the other parties' 20 minutes strict (one A4 page of skeleton argument [as is conventional and normal]). Both Sicilian Bongiorno and Bruno (once prosecuted but cleared) have mafia links, the former even representing Andreotti against mafia charges, so it's all very fishy Marasaca and Bruno preferring Bongiorno's appeal over the others and it's no surprise the MR is consequently full of contradictions and flab, resurrecting the expunged Hellmann and reinstating the excoriated Conti & Vecchiotti who had been assigned to the dustbin of ignominy by Supreme Court Chieffi.

Of course, Marasca retired immediately afterwards so he doesn't have to worry about consequences but I wonder how he sleeps at night after his disgraceful performance in this matter.
I think you've posted in the wrong ISF thread. Here's the link to the Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories threads:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...splay.php?f=91

You're welcome.
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Old 11th July 2019, 09:18 AM   #967
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
The headline and first paragraphs, Google translation:

"Prosecutor Antonella Duchini is under investigation, heavy charges: the prosecutor's office asks for an extension of the investigation

The Florence prosecutor's investigation against the former deputy Antonella Duchini was requested for another six months, for years under the Perugia Anti-Mafia District Directorate


Prosecutor Antonella Duchini is under investigation, heavy charges: the prosecutor's office asks for an extension of the investigation

"The investigation by the prosecutor's office of Florence against the former deputy Antonella Duchini was requested for another six months, for years under the Perugia Anti-Mafia District Directorate to which the hypotheses of embezzlement, ideological falsehood, are disputed. corruption for an act contrary to official duties, corruption in judicial proceedings." "

Yep. Sounds like there are problems in the Perugia prosecutor's office.

I wonder when it started and which prosecutors could be accused of ideological falsehood - which is a literal translation of an Italian legal charge which could be better translated as "falsification of official documents". It's one of the charges that Mignini claimed Amanda Knox was implicitly leveling against him and the police when she testified about the interrogation of Nov. 5/6, 2007 in Massei's court.
I expect to see a full reporting of this disgraceful conduct over at TJMK. Any year now.
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Old 11th July 2019, 09:19 AM   #968
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Stacy, make that 12....
Let's make that 13:

Quote:
...criminal judges who have dealt with all kinds of criminals and are experts at sniffing out a lie when they hear one.
ETA: Make that 14 (and counting):

Bill Williams said Massei was 'some kind of moron'.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 11th July 2019 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 11th July 2019, 09:35 AM   #969
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Stop changing the context. Bill Williams claimed Massei was some kind of a moron. I merely pointed it he was quite the reverse and probably more intelligent than people posting here.
Stop making false claims, the above included. Bill W. did NOT claim Massei was 'some kind of a moron'. He correctly pointed out the illogical conclusions Massei came to which led to his conviction of AK and RS being overturned. Both Hellmann and Marasca clearly pointed this out. As already stated, there are none so blind as those who will not see. Take the guilt blinders off.

My point, which did NOT change the context, still stands:

Quote:
Once again, you totally disregard the point in favor of some irrelevant piece of nonsense. To wit: judges you agree with are educated, bright, and from high class families. Those whom who disagree with are bent/corrupt/mafia influenced, bought off, blah blah blah...
(post #12751775)
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Old 11th July 2019, 09:38 AM   #970
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Originally Posted by AnimalFriendly View Post
I expect to see a full reporting of this disgraceful conduct over at TJMK. Any year now.
It will have to get in line. We're still waiting for Sollecito and Gumble's 'apology to Mignini'.
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Old 11th July 2019, 10:02 AM   #971
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Let's make that 13:



ETA: Make that 14 (and counting):

Bill Williams said Massei was 'some kind of moron'.
To be fair, I probably did imply that Massei made moronic judgments. So that should be 13 1/2.
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Old 11th July 2019, 10:51 AM   #972
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
To be fair, I probably did imply that Massei made moronic judgments. So that should be 13 1/2.
Implying is not actually saying it. Vixen wrote:

Quote:
But no, according to BiWi he's a 'very stupid guy'.
Note the quotation marks.
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:01 PM   #973
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Neither did Amanda or Raffaele yet this became an issue for them.

You may never commit a criminal offense, but that doesn't mean you won't become a suspect in a criminal offense, and that's the point.
If I did, I wouldn't pin it on someone else nor tell lie after lie after lie. I would stand in the witness box and tell the truth.
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:05 PM   #974
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It will have to get in line. We're still waiting for Sollecito and Gumble's 'apology to Mignini'.
Sorry to disappoint you but reparation was paid to Mignini.
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:24 PM   #975
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If I did, I wouldn't pin it on someone else nor tell lie after lie after lie. I would stand in the witness box and tell the truth.
Like you do here?


1. Tertiary transfer does not occur.
2. Kercher's DNA literally survived a bleach bath.
3. Raff was photographed lying next to a mafia gangster.
4. Raff was seen hanging out with Italian mobsters.
5. Knox and Sollecito had all night to clean up and that is obviously what they tried to do.
6. Ex-slaves owners had laws passed counting ex-slaves only as 3/5th of a person.
7. That there was no trace of Knox at the scene of the murder is a myth.
8. Even if translates as even though.
9. AK and RS weren't 'acquitted' only 'annulled'.
10. C&V were referring only to the 'collection phase' when they said contamination could not be ruled out, and not during the analysis in the lab.
11. When the quote from C&V clearly states, 'and/or during the analyses", either I or
some other PIP 'added the last clause'.

Previous whoppers:

There were no bars under Romanelli's window on Nov 2, 2007,Knox flew home on a private chartered plane, Raff owned a Napapijri jacket and a white cap with a red stripe, Vinci quit after discovering Knox's DNA on the bra, the mop was found by the cottage front door, Knox never shed a tear for Meredith, Amanda was going through 300 euros cash daily, paper under Filomena's window had Knox's footprint on them, police claimed to hear the washing machine cycle end, police didn't think Knox had showered, Forensic police believed the blood in the bidet, sink and cotton bud were signs of the murderer rinsing the knife off, Knox rang her mother for the first time since arriving in Europe ahead of the discovery of the body etc etc etc.

(Thanks to Welshman for listing some of the above with citations)
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:29 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sorry to disappoint you but reparation was paid to Mignini.
No it wasn't. (Stacyhs - add this one to the list.)

The criminal proceedings against Sollecito and Gumbel were laughed out of court, and the parallel civil lawsuit brought by Mignini was, as a consequence, quietly dropped.

Besides, the promise made by the nutters at TJMK was that those two things were a result of a deal where-which Sollecito and Gumbel would make a public apology - within a week, if I remember correctly. The nutters at TJMK made no mention or "reparations", and indeed none have been made.

Yet you change the outcome, and provide no citation to back up your, "sorry to disappoint you...."
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:30 PM   #977
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Implying is not actually saying it. Vixen wrote:

Note the quotation marks.
This is a rough room.

Ok, in fairness to Vixen, she should get at least 1/4 of a point for this.
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:34 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Sorry to disappoint you but reparation was paid to Mignini.

OH, riiiiiiiight....I read all about it over on TJMK! Slick Pete posted it as his follow up to the apology that was coming any day now (almost 2 years ago).

You do realize that I'm going to ask for evidence of this, don't you? Not that I, or anyone else, is actually expecting you to provide any. Maybe that's because you're so busy finding the evidence that RS was 'seen hanging around with Italian mobsters' and 'Lying on a beach next to a mafia gangster'?

ROTFLMAO!

ETA: Added to list of whoppers told by Vixen.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 11th July 2019 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:41 PM   #979
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
This is a rough room.

Ok, in fairness to Vixen, she should get at least 1/4 of a point for this.
Well...Okaaaaay. After all, she did infer you think Massei's reasoning was moronic and stupid. And she may be correct.
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:44 PM   #980
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Well...Okaaaaay. After all, she did infer you think Massei's reasoning was moronic and stupid. And she may be correct.
She is. A rare win for Vixen.
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:48 PM   #981
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Quote:
A rare win for Vixen.
https://i.gifer.com/2Kk.gif

Last edited by Stacyhs; 11th July 2019 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 11th July 2019, 01:16 PM   #982
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Like you do here?


1. Tertiary transfer does not occur.
2. Kercher's DNA literally survived a bleach bath.
3. Raff was photographed lying next to a mafia gangster.
4. Raff was seen hanging out with Italian mobsters.
5. Knox and Sollecito had all night to clean up and that is obviously what they tried to do.
6. Ex-slaves owners had laws passed counting ex-slaves only as 3/5th of a person.
7. That there was no trace of Knox at the scene of the murder is a myth.
8. Even if translates as even though.
9. AK and RS weren't 'acquitted' only 'annulled'.
10. C&V were referring only to the 'collection phase' when they said contamination could not be ruled out, and not during the analysis in the lab.
11. When the quote from C&V clearly states, 'and/or during the analyses", either I or
some other PIP 'added the last clause'.

Previous whoppers:

There were no bars under Romanelli's window on Nov 2, 2007,Knox flew home on a private chartered plane, Raff owned a Napapijri jacket and a white cap with a red stripe, Vinci quit after discovering Knox's DNA on the bra, the mop was found by the cottage front door, Knox never shed a tear for Meredith, Amanda was going through 300 euros cash daily, paper under Filomena's window had Knox's footprint on them, police claimed to hear the washing machine cycle end, police didn't think Knox had showered, Forensic police believed the blood in the bidet, sink and cotton bud were signs of the murderer rinsing the knife off, Knox rang her mother for the first time since arriving in Europe ahead of the discovery of the body etc etc etc.

(Thanks to Welshman for listing some of the above with citations)
In psychology there is an idea called projection where people project negative thoughts and actions onto other people as a coping mechanism. Vixen lies on an industrial scale in her posts and then viciously attacks Amanda for lying which is a blatant case of projection. By projecting her lies onto Amanda Vixen can pretend it is Amanda who is telling numerous lies rather than Vixen.
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Old 11th July 2019, 02:09 PM   #983
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If I did, I wouldn't pin it on someone else nor tell lie after lie after lie. I would stand in the witness box and tell the truth.
I love the holier than thou attitude, but let me point out a few things here;

1. You would be just as susceptible to a coercive interrogation as anyone else. You just might pin it on someone, or just as bad, on yourself.

2. You might tell the truth, but the media and the prosecution, hell bent on convicting you, might be saying something else. And as a result, there WILL be many people on Internet chat groups, who believe the media or prosecution, and they will be accusing you of lying, whether you did or did not.

3. Your lawyers would likely advise you to NOT get in the witness box because, as most everyone who understands how the legal system works, the prosecutor can twist, distort and get you so confused that you become a nightmare witness for your own defense. There's a reason why almost no one ever testifies, and it's not because they're always guilty.
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Old 11th July 2019, 02:16 PM   #984
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Neil Bantleman released from Indonesian prison

It's a bit off topic but, another win after a huge injustice....

CBC News is reporting that Neil Bantleman is home in Ontario, after a release from an Indonesian prison. He has been home for at least two weeks, and that it was kept quiet due to the release's terms.

Another win for the wrongfully imprisoned.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nei...rges-1.5208676
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Old 11th July 2019, 02:19 PM   #985
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
OH, riiiiiiiight....I read all about it over on TJMK! Slick Pete posted it as his follow up to the apology that was coming any day now (almost 2 years ago).

You do realize that I'm going to ask for evidence of this, don't you? Not that I, or anyone else, is actually expecting you to provide any. Maybe that's because you're so busy finding the evidence that RS was 'seen hanging around with Italian mobsters' and 'Lying on a beach next to a mafia gangster'?

ROTFLMAO!

ETA: Added to list of whoppers told by Vixen.
Did Quennell actually post that on his hate site? I don't read there so didn't know that. Based on this post I just tried going there to read the nonsense and, to my horror, the site is down!
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Old 11th July 2019, 02:57 PM   #986
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Did Quennell actually post that on his hate site? I don't read there so didn't know that. Based on this post I just tried going there to read the nonsense and, to my horror, the site is down!
No, I was being sarcastic! Should have posted a

TJMK has been down at least a couple of days. Sometimes things just go right!
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Old 11th July 2019, 03:02 PM   #987
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It's a bit off topic but, another win after a huge injustice....

CBC News is reporting that Neil Bantleman is home in Ontario, after a release from an Indonesian prison. He has been home for at least two weeks, and that it was kept quiet due to the release's terms.

Another win for the wrongfully imprisoned.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nei...rges-1.5208676
That's great. Meanwhile....a (now fired) deputy has been arrested for planting drugs on traffic stops so he could arrest them. Interestingly, he would turn off his body camera. Hmmmm....he didn't want a video recording of his nefarious deeds. What a shocker.

Quote:
During most of these stops, Wester would turn off his body camera and “tailor his recordings to conceal his criminal activity,” authorities said. After “finding” the drugs, he would pin motorists with bogus criminal charges and arrest them.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...stops-n1028991
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Old 11th July 2019, 05:26 PM   #988
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No, I was being sarcastic! Should have posted a

TJMK has been down at least a couple of days. Sometimes things just go right!
Oops.. but I guess that just goes to show, he's published so much BS that I put nothing past him.
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Old 11th July 2019, 06:41 PM   #989
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Oops.. but I guess that just goes to show, he's published so much BS that I put nothing past him.
Quennell isn't the only one to post BS there! Krissy G is a major contributor of TJMK BS. She'd be right at home here on ISF.
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Old 12th July 2019, 07:52 AM   #990
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Quennell isn't the only one to post BS there! Krissy G is a major contributor of TJMK BS. She'd be right at home here on ISF.
I wonder if those two have ever had a summit on the truth and reliability of Nick van der Leek, the cut-and-paste, one-per-month ersatz crack true crime author?

Quennell says the man is not to be trusted. KrissyG is in van der Leek's acknowledgements.

Inquiring minds want to know, given that Q and K.G. are perhaps the last two on-line guilter-nutters left.
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
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Old 12th July 2019, 09:57 AM   #991
Stacyhs
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This must be Good News Friday: TJMK is still down.

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Old 12th July 2019, 04:33 PM   #992
bagels
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Vixen is right that Massei isn't the dumbest judge in the case, he figured out the correct sequence of events Raffaele's 112 calls and the arrival of the postal police happened in
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Old 12th July 2019, 05:40 PM   #993
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
Vixen is right that Massei isn't the dumbest judge in the case, he figured out the correct sequence of events Raffaele's 112 calls and the arrival of the postal police happened in
Massei was also correct about saying that there was no mixed blood, and that the victim and Knox had had a normal flatmate relationship.
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Old 12th July 2019, 05:53 PM   #994
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Massei was also correct about saying that there was no mixed blood, and that the victim and Knox had had a normal flatmate relationship.
But suddenly...for no reason...that 'normal relationship' turned into Knox killing her roommate simply because she made a 'choice for extreme evil'! Uh huh.

Another example of Massei coming to a conclusion totally unfounded on any science was his conclusion (more rightly called speculation) that:

Quote:
“It must be also emphasised that the presence of biological traces
discovered on the handle of this knife, – and on which, regarding its
attribution to Amanda, there was advanced no particular censure
nor perplexity, – appears more likely to have been derived from her
having held the knife to strike, rather than from having used it to
cut some food.”
DNA alone cannot tell us how a knife was used.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 12th July 2019 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 13th July 2019, 12:29 PM   #995
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TJMK is still down. Oh, dear. What will the Main Contributors (all 2-3 of them) do now? There must be much rending of clothes and hair and gnashing of teeth!
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Old 13th July 2019, 01:48 PM   #996
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
TJMK is still down. Oh, dear. What will the Main Contributors (all 2-3 of them) do now? There must be much rending of clothes and hair and gnashing of teeth!
If this is, indeed, the final curtail for Peter Quennell's multi-year hate-campaign, then it represents an important milestone in the on-line war over the events of Nov 1/2 and Nov 5/6 2007 in Perugia, Italy.

The 2 PMF's are gone - used to be a unified PMF until March 2011, when the "all for Meredith" nutters broke into civil war over who cared for the victim more. The settlement of that one was .ORG and .NET and bannings of the treasonous heretics from the other side.

The fake Wiki is still up. First of all, it's not a Wiki, not in the sense that normal Wiki's are user-editable. The fake-Wiki contained, unchallenged, the factoid talking points that have plagued this case since its inception.

Then again, last time I read it even the fake-Wiki contained the admission that the result of the 2015 Supreme Court action was as an acquittal. And most of the sub-pages on it have not had meaningful updates in 5 years - and if you read the "history" sub-page to each page, you'll find that only one, two, or sometimes 3 of the true-believers were allowed to edit.

But..........

Considering that this thread, way back when, used to get up to 165 posts per day - per day - and thousands of "looks" per day, the closure of TJMK (if true) is a watershed.

Hell, maybe it'll just be you and me, Stacyhs. Numbers will keep the thread informed as to the latest in the fallout from ECHR, and Methos will be at the ready with an actual citation for claims made.....

But let's pause for a minute.....
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Old 13th July 2019, 06:56 PM   #997
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I'll actually miss Vixen when she stops posting here. She's added a lot to my comedy entertainment.
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Old 13th July 2019, 07:43 PM   #998
whoanellie
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'll actually miss Vixen when she stops posting here. She's added a lot to my comedy entertainment.
I'd say she was a glutton for punishment IF only she had any idea how bad she makes herself look.
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Old 13th July 2019, 09:04 PM   #999
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Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
I'd say she was a glutton for punishment IF only she had any idea how bad she makes herself look.
<fx kemosabe>
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Old 14th July 2019, 01:20 PM   #1000
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Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
I'd say she was a glutton for punishment IF only she had any idea how bad she makes herself look.
Saddam had about 18m supporters, so it's no surprise Knox has her share, as well.
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