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Old 4th July 2019, 12:05 AM   #361
uke2se
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Sorry, but no. This soil has been tilled so often that it's sort of amazing to find it still productive.

Here is a book recommendation from way back in the day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi..._on_the_Fringe

Let me know if you find anything new under the sun.
No, you are wrong. The alt-right radicalization pipeline is fairly recent and people who point it out are still facing outright denial, even among people who should damn well know better - see this thread for example.
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Old 4th July 2019, 12:07 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Good job side stepping everything I wrote and posting a video from a year ago you actually believe makes a case, for.. something?
It's context. It demonstrates the fact that these clashes have a lot of history behind them, and that what happened to Andy Ngo wasn't all that bad when you take into account what his friends have done.
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Old 4th July 2019, 12:10 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I think in the long run that normalizing violence in politics will favor the fascists.
I disagree. Leftists not engaging in this sort of violence only means they become victims, because the right sure as hell won't stop. Doesn't stop them winning elections either, so that excuse is right out the window.
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Old 4th July 2019, 12:12 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Wanting and actually doing are two different things. Meanwhile we have an influential group of progressives getting cozy with Islam. They push terms like Islamophobia into law, attempting to make it so we can't even question the religion. They push for immigrants to bring their home life/beliefs to the West rather than assimilation. That same home life and beliefs where people not only want all gays dead, they act on them by throwing them off buildings. What a world we live in.
Who's doing this?

And why is it wrong to allow people to bring their culture to a multi-cultural melting pot? That's how it's always been. Why should muslims be excluded?
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Old 4th July 2019, 04:14 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I disagree. Leftists not engaging in this sort of violence only means they become victims
Yeah, no. That's really not what's going on, at all. Antifa isn't actually protecting anyone from anything. Certainly no one was protected from violence by beating up Andy Ngo.
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Old 4th July 2019, 04:52 AM   #366
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Andy Ngo must be stopped by all means necessary
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Old 4th July 2019, 05:08 AM   #367
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Not related to the attack on Andy Ngo, but Snopes has a fact check about a different altercation at the same protest:

Was an ‘Elderly Man’ Beaten While Trying to Help a ‘Man in a Sundress’ in Portland?
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Old 4th July 2019, 05:12 AM   #368
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One more from Snopes:

Did Milkshakes Thrown in Portland Protests Contain Cement?
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Old 4th July 2019, 05:48 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post

And why is it wrong to allow people to bring their culture to a multi-cultural melting pot? That's how it's always been. Why should muslims be excluded?
Surely it depends on what cultural practices are imported? One can presumably be worried about honor killings, homophobia etc?
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Old 4th July 2019, 06:38 AM   #370
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Statement from Rose City Antifa about the event.

https://rosecityantifa.org/articles/june-29-statement/
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Old 4th July 2019, 06:51 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Not related to the attack on Andy Ngo, but Snopes has a fact check about a different altercation at the same protest:

Was an ‘Elderly Man’ Beaten While Trying to Help a ‘Man in a Sundress’ in Portland?
Comprehensively covered from every angle and side in this very thread.
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Old 4th July 2019, 06:53 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Surely it depends on what cultural practices are imported? One can presumably be worried about honor killings, homophobia etc?
Careful.....

Nuance doesn't go down well with some.
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Old 4th July 2019, 06:54 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Careful.....

Nuance doesn't go down well with some.
Nuance works fine.

How about this: We disallow all practices that would be illegal under domestic law?

I don't think anyone has ever asked for anything more than that.
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:04 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Statement from Rose City Antifa about the event.

https://rosecityantifa.org/articles/june-29-statement/
I don't understand this statement.

Quote:
"On June 29, 2019, Andy Ngo tried a repeat of his actions on May 1, 2019– to film the actions of armed men on a mission to attack activists, to be used for propaganda purposes."
Who are the armed men being referred to?

Is it RCA openly stating that they were armed with the intention to attack activists or the other way round?

If it is the former then wouldn't the active suppression of the reporting of such physical attacks be something one would would find in a fascist or communist state?
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:05 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I don't understand this statement.



Who are the armed men being referred to?
The Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer guys. They were armed.

Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Is it RCA openly stating that they were armed with the intention to attack activists or the other way round?
The fascists were armed, obviously.

Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
If it is the former then wouldn't the active suppression of the reporting of such physical attacks be something one would would find in a fascist or communist state?
Wut?
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:08 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Nuance works fine.

How about this: We disallow all practices that would be illegal under domestic law?

I don't think anyone has ever asked for anything more than that.
Why didn't you say as much in your response to Bouncing Betty?
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:12 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer guys. They were armed.
Why would Ngo want to create propaganda about them beating up activists? Doesn't he support them?

Quote:
The fascists were armed, obviously.
Yes, as were many A(a)ntifa, so who was Ngo intending on besmirching with his film?

Quote:
Wut?
I, literally, could not have put it better myself.
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:13 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Why didn't you say as much in your response to Bouncing Betty?
Why should I have to answer a post that came later in my post to Bouncing Betty?
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:14 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Why would Ngo want to create propaganda about them beating up activists? Doesn't he support them?
Yes he does. If you read the statement you would know the answer to this question.

Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Yes, as were many A(a)ntifa, so who was Ngo intending on besmirching with his film?
Read the statement.
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:18 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Glad to hear we've not yet reached the caustic-substance-attacks phase of the revolution.
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:28 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Yes he does. If you read the statement you would know the answer to this question.



Read the statement.
Right.. got it.

I just couldn't understand it after the first coupla passes.

Just to check I've got it right. He went to film the far right groups attacking peaceful, I assume, "activists" so that he could subsequently propagandize this action by hopefully finding a victim or two who had carried out some nefarious act on behalf of activists previously. Once identified, he would profit by appearing on national media and doxxing and harassing said victims. He was, for a given value of successfully, successfully shut down.

Assuming I've unravelled this correctly, the players on either side of this sideshow have got be the biggest ******* dickheads in the US and elsewhere currently. What a ******* joke.
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:32 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Why should I have to answer a post that came later in my post to Bouncing Betty?
Well, it was part of a response to a response that you were involved in and might have shown a willingness to debate honestly rather than hint "why do you hate muslims".
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Old 4th July 2019, 08:13 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Nuance works fine.

How about this: We disallow all practices that would be illegal under domestic law?

I don't think anyone has ever asked for anything more than that.
Like assault not in self defense?

I agree ship the Antifa folks somewhere.
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Old 4th July 2019, 10:04 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I don't understand this statement.



Who are the armed men being referred to?

Is it RCA openly stating that they were armed with the intention to attack activists or the other way round?

If it is the former then wouldn't the active suppression of the reporting of such physical attacks be something one would would find in a fascist or communist state?
The "armed men" presumably refers to the antifa guys and "activists" would be the proud boys??
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Old 4th July 2019, 10:42 AM   #385
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Attacking journalists is a feature of antifa, not a bug
https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/i...-a-debate-over
Quote:
Taylor Lorenz, a journalist for The Hill, was punched in the side of the head while live-streaming the aftermath of a fatal attack on anti-fascist protesters in Charlottesville, Virginia.
Quote:
Dave Minsky — an independent journalist and photographer who freelances for Reuters, Vice, the Miami New Times and the Santa Barbara News-Press — was beaten by masked protesters on August 27, 2017, while covering an anti-fascist protest in Berkeley, California
Quote:
A CBS 6 photojournalist had to be taken to the emergency room after he was struck in the back of the head by an anti-fascist protester, the channel reported on August 13, 2017.
Quote:
A reporter for local North Carolina TV station WLOS was assaulted while live-streaming a peaceful anti-racist demonstration in Asheville, North Carolina, on August 13, 2017.
Quote:
Mike Kessler was covering a demonstration in Berkeley, California, when a group of protesters stole his camera and phone and attempted to break them.
Quote:
Leigh Martinez, a freelance reporter for KTVU, was covering an anti-fascist protest in Berkeley, California, on August 27, 2017
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Old 4th July 2019, 12:23 PM   #386
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A second 2020 democratic hopeful, Eric Swalwell, has condemned the attacks:
Quote:
I don’t agree with much of what @MrAndyNgo ever says. But that’s not the point. He should not be harmed for his views and his attackers should be prosecuted. *And Congress should pass my Journalist Protection Act, which makes it a federal crime to assault or batter a journalist.
Sadly, it seems like we need a Journalist Protection Act.
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Old 4th July 2019, 01:51 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yeah, no. That's really not what's going on, at all. Antifa isn't actually protecting anyone from anything. Certainly no one was protected from violence by beating up Andy Ngo.

You're definitely wrong about that. And artificially restricting the context to one single person is a logical fallacy when the issue is far larger than one alt.right propagandist.

On America's Streets, Antifa's Militant Anti-fascism Isn't Terrorism - It's Self-defense

Excerpt:
Quote:
As a sociologist, I have been formally studying militant anti-fascism for well over a decade. In this formal research, I interviewed both militant and non-militant anti-fascist activists and conducted ethnographic research with formal antifa groups. I have spent time in meetings, observing activism, and engaging in the culture of anti-fascism.

What I found in my interviews and experiences is that militant anti-fascists experience tangible and immediate threats from fascists and respond out of a practical need to defend themselves from those threats.

For most people, fascist activism and organizing are abstractions removed from their daily lives; images on television and news reports, cartoonish villains. For the antifa activists whom I researched, fascists represented an intense and immediate threat.

Many militant anti-fascists become involved in this form of activism because aspects of their identity are directly targeted by fascist violence; they are queer, transgender, gender non-conforming, people of color, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, and certainly identified in ways that intersected across these categories.

For them, anti-fascism was a means of ensuring their safety from a movement that threatens their very existence and venerates violence as the highest form of action. Even the antifa activists who identify as cis heterosexual white males are the targets of fascist violence as "race" and "gender" traitors.

It's easy to dismiss direct action against fascists when you're not the ones they're targeting for assault and murder.
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Old 4th July 2019, 02:09 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
You're definitely wrong about that. And artificially restricting the context to one single person is a logical fallacy when the issue is far larger than one alt.right propagandist.

On America's Streets, Antifa's Militant Anti-fascism Isn't Terrorism - It's Self-defense

Excerpt:



It's easy to dismiss direct action against fascists when you're not the ones they're targeting for assault and murder.
Unbelievable. Sucker punching a gay minority with weaponized gloves is an act of "self defense"
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Old 4th July 2019, 02:09 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The "armed men" presumably refers to the antifa guys and "activists" would be the proud boys??
Correct.
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Old 4th July 2019, 02:17 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Unbelievable. Sucker punching a gay minority with weaponized gloves is an act of "self defense"
Please articulate your disagreement.
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Old 4th July 2019, 02:29 PM   #391
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Portland Police released photos and are asking the public for help identifying the suspects for assault and robbery
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/polic....cfm?id=250045
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Old 4th July 2019, 02:48 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I disagree. Leftists not engaging in this sort of violence only means they become victims, because the right sure as hell won't stop. Doesn't stop them winning elections either, so that excuse is right out the window.
Leftists don't defend themselves. Leftists aren't victims. Leftists engage in violence because their ideology requires them to engage in violence. Killing millions of my fellow citizens cannot happen without violence and killing billions of my fellow citizens is the heart and soul of socialist philosophy--it's what socialism is all about. That is why demonstrations where antifa show up always end in bloodshed.
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Old 4th July 2019, 03:03 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Right.. got it.

I just couldn't understand it after the first coupla passes.

Just to check I've got it right. He went to film the far right groups attacking peaceful, I assume, "activists" so that he could subsequently propagandize this action by hopefully finding a victim or two who had carried out some nefarious act on behalf of activists previously. Once identified, he would profit by appearing on national media and doxxing and harassing said victims. He was, for a given value of successfully, successfully shut down.

Assuming I've unravelled this correctly, the players on either side of this sideshow have got be the biggest ******* dickheads in the US and elsewhere currently. What a ******* joke.
That's pretty much what I figured from the statement, and I agree wholeheartedly with your conclusion.
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Old 4th July 2019, 03:19 PM   #394
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Seems to me that fascists, whether left or right, are always able to paint themselves as perpetual victims and their violence as self defense.
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Old 4th July 2019, 03:29 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
What absolute rubbish. Aggressors justify their aggression by claiming that it's actually "self defense". They seek out these conflicts and instigate them. What they don't seem to understand is that their own actions, their own "resistance" fuels the very thing they claim to oppose. You think attacking Andy Ngo was a propaganda victory for antifa or for the so-called fascists?
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:20 PM   #396
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For the record, I support ANTIFA both implicitly and explicitly. Carry on.
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Old 4th July 2019, 07:29 PM   #397
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For the record, I oppose mob violence by both left-wing and right-wing groups. Carry on.
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Old 4th July 2019, 08:03 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Who's doing this?

And why is it wrong to allow people to bring their culture to a multi-cultural melting pot? That's how it's always been. Why should muslims be excluded?
So you support executing gay men and women by throwing them off tall buildings?
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Old 4th July 2019, 08:07 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Surely it depends on what cultural practices are imported? One can presumably be worried about honor killings, homophobia etc?
Honor killings, subjugating women, mutilating genitalia, homophobia, hell, even human sacrifice must be celebrated in a multicultural utiopia. Only small minded bigots would disagree.
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Old 4th July 2019, 08:10 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
For the record, I support ANTIFA both implicitly and explicitly. Carry on.
For the record, Travis supports the murder of trillions of my fellow citizens
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