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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 2nd August 2018, 04:01 PM   #2041
theprestige
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I understand being pessimistic right now. But all is not lost yet. The fact is that religion is eroding with every generation even in the United States. Knowledge will win out....I hope.
Theistic religion is a symptom of human foolishness, not a cause. There's no shortage of non-theistic ideologies troubling the world.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 04:03 PM   #2042
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Heinlein saw it coming.
I never took to Heinlein so I wouldn't have noticed. Frank Herbert was a different matter, but that was far future fantasy, not something I'd have to watch and live with.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 04:13 PM   #2043
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Theistic religion is a symptom of human foolishness, not a cause. There's no shortage of non-theistic ideologies troubling the world.
The world was far less troubled during the Cold War than it has been since that fizzled out.

Southern Baptists in the US, Islamists all over, fundamentalist Judaism in Israel, the BJP in India, Putin kissing the Russian Orthodox ring, all that troubles me. What troubles you : China? Liberals?
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Old 2nd August 2018, 04:53 PM   #2044
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Theistic religion is a symptom of human foolishness, not a cause. There's no shortage of non-theistic ideologies troubling the world.
No question. That said, much of Trump's support come from Evangelicals. Religion scares the hell out of me because it glorifies wilfull ignorance over reason, knowledge and science.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 05:07 PM   #2045
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is from today on the Amazon page:But you have to understand how they calculate those numbers. It's based on sales today or a rolling week, something short like that. Any book people buy right off the bat like this kind of crap will be a best seller for a couple days, then it will drop off the map.
While still being referenced as "the best-selling book" in the next book of the chain.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 05:43 PM   #2046
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
How was the weather on inaugeration day?
https://globalnews.ca/news/4362603/j...mp-supporters/
Exactly. This from your link:

Quote:
Trump learned the power of misinformation long before taking office, when he started spreading the lie that former president Barack Obama was secretly a Kenyan-born Muslim. People ate it up then, as Trump popularized the myth.

Since then, the president has manufactured a crisis of media credibility as a way to inoculate himself and his administration from scandal.

All he has to do is brand the media as “the enemy of the people,” and “fake news,” whenever a story he doesn’t like appears, and his supporters will believe that they can’t believe anything but his word.

It sounds ridiculous, but it has worked. Seventy-one percent of Republicans now think that Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation is a “witch hunt,” and just 16 per cent consider it a legitimate investigation, all because the president has said so.
Like I said, you can't fix stupid.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 05:47 PM   #2047
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
In my darker moods I feel like that about the entire Enlightenment.

When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's it was taken as a given that secularism and the scientific method had triumphed over fundamentalist religion and there could be no going back (outside a post-apocalyptic future, as in A Canticle for Leibowitz). The recrudescence of fundamentalist religion in politics from about 1980 took me completely by surprise.

I'm not disappointed by the absence of jetpacks and a flying car in every garage, but I'm deeply disappointed by that.
Amen to that!
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Old 2nd August 2018, 07:07 PM   #2048
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At the rally tonight in PA, Trump once again said told his adoring followers that the Russia investigation was a hoax; not the collusion investigation, but the Russia investigation. He also falsely claimed that Russia was very unhappy that he had won despite Putin saying clearly in Helsinki that he wanted Trump to win. And the idiots behind him cheered it as if what he was saying was true and not blatant lies. Like I said, you can't fix stupid.

He also said to throw out a protester.

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Old 2nd August 2018, 07:56 PM   #2049
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Theistic religion is a symptom of human foolishness, not a cause. There's no shortage of non-theistic ideologies troubling the world.
Conservatism is one. Libertarianism is another.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 11:33 PM   #2050
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Manafort and Gates:
I've seen this on a TV show. Two guys covered in blood kill third guy. In separate rooms in interrogation they say they just helped cover up and the other guy did all the killing.
They're likely to tell the truth, assuming Manafort flips..

The first thing is that I've seen it said several times that if the FBI ask you a question then they already know the answer. They're trying to gain leverage by getting you to lie to them, which is a crime. Or, to put it another way, there is no way that the FBI will be relying just on testimony to make its case. There will be corroborating evidence.

Page and Manafort (if he flips) will be given immunity for crimes and lenient prosecution for others. That goes away if they lie and, in doing so, contradict what the FBI has evidence for. Then they not only get the book thrown at them, but they are also prosecuted for additional crimes.

In other words - once you've taken a deal you have nothing whatsoever to lose by telling the truth and a great deal to lose by lying. If they are at all smart and have even vaguely competent counsel (I know, not necessarily true), then they'll tell the truth, even if under normal circumstances it would be inculpatory.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:47 AM   #2051
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The first thing is that I've seen it said several times that if the FBI ask you a question then they already know the answer. They're trying to gain leverage by getting you to lie to them, which is a crime. Or, to put it another way, there is no way that the FBI will be relying just on testimony to make its case. There will be corroborating evidence.
As a minor nitpick, given some of the propaganda from the right about Flynn, this is not always true. There are different reasons for interviews to be done, after all.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:48 AM   #2052
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
In my darker moods I feel like that about the entire Enlightenment.

When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's it was taken as a given that secularism and the scientific method had triumphed over fundamentalist religion and there could be no going back (outside a post-apocalyptic future, as in A Canticle for Leibowitz). The recrudescence of fundamentalist religion in politics from about 1980 took me completely by surprise.

I'm not disappointed by the absence of jetpacks and a flying car in every garage, but I'm deeply disappointed by that.

It’s the lack of holidays on the moon that most upset me.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 01:22 AM   #2053
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
As a minor nitpick, given some of the propaganda from the right about Flynn, this is not always true. There are different reasons for interviews to be done, after all.
Yeah, I think it would be more accurate to say that if the FBI asks you a question, they might already know the answer, so lying is risky business. Given Flynn's experience, he surely knew that risk when he lied about talking to Russians.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 04:57 AM   #2054
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Made me think of this, when the White House kept Trump away from the press near the helicopter:



https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-hou...213441259.html
The new test for access to the press pool will be to answer the question "How many fingers am I holding up?"

Only FOX News will qualify for it.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 04:59 AM   #2055
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
I never took to Heinlein so I wouldn't have noticed. Frank Herbert was a different matter, but that was far future fantasy, not something I'd have to watch and live with.
I don't know, the quote about "when politics and religion ride in the same cart" seems pretty apt.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 05:02 AM   #2056
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
He keeps HM the Queen waiting ten minutes.
Not if you hear his side of the story. He says she kept him waiting. And it was for fifteen minutes.

The BBC has a compleely non-partisan video about this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...-for-the-queen
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:19 AM   #2057
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
They're likely to tell the truth, assuming Manafort flips..

The first thing is that I've seen it said several times that if the FBI ask you a question then they already know the answer. They're trying to gain leverage by getting you to lie to them, which is a crime. Or, to put it another way, there is no way that the FBI will be relying just on testimony to make its case. There will be corroborating evidence.
I believe that if someone flips, the FBI will push them for corroborating evidence of whatever they say. In the Manafort trial, anything that Gates says in court could simply be dismissed at Gates' word against Manafort's, but if Gates could point them to offshore bank accounts, or damning emails, etc, that would be a whole 'nother thing. And that's what they'd want.



Many (many!) years ago, a friend of mine was thinking about working with a mid-level drug dealer (importer), and my friend insisted that the importer was "too smart to get caught." He probably was. Some of his associates, however, were not. One was caught, flipped, and told the Feds about some upcoming exchange. The Feds took video of the whole transaction and then arrested the importer while he was carrying a suitcase of drugs. And when the Feds do things like that, the informant's credibility is both established and superfluous. AFAIK, the informant never even appeared in court.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:51 AM   #2058
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
The new test for access to the press pool will be to answer the question "How many fingers am I holding up?"

Only FOX News will qualify for it.
OTOH if FOX were to ask President Trump that question they would risk being excluded from the pool for stretching his math ability and/or suggesting he had concussion.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 07:31 AM   #2059
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
The new test for access to the press pool will be to answer the question "How many fingers am I holding up?"

Only FOX News will qualify for it.
CNN: "There are four lights!"

Trump: "Fake news! Five lights! Get them out of here"
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Old 3rd August 2018, 07:37 AM   #2060
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
CNN: "There are four lights!"

Fox Trump: "Fake news! Five lights!"

Trump: "At least six or seven lights. Under Obama, there were only three lights until he broke one, do you believe that? We had only two lights under Obama, and Hillary was trying to give one of those to the Russians. But we have eight lights now, and by that I mean at least eight, maybe nine, maybe ten and people are saying that we'll probably be up to fifteen lights soon."
ftfy

ETA: now I have this vision of Trump claiming that the US was down to only 37 states under Obama, but that we're up to at least 60 now.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 08:55 AM   #2061
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
ftfy

ETA: now I have this vision of Trump claiming that the US was down to only 37 states under Obama, but that we're up to at least 60 now.
Careful, You might have to end up holding his beer.

We are having to deal with something more vicious in India....only in this case the guy has the backing of a very powerful cartel of religious nut jobs and moneyed self interest (including himself) with the cunning and impunity to get things done. The majority of the media also grovel before them.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 05:41 PM   #2062
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Feinstein is a Chinese spy.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 05:49 PM   #2063
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
I believe that if someone flips, the FBI will push them for corroborating evidence of whatever they say. In the Manafort trial, anything that Gates says in court could simply be dismissed at Gates' word against Manafort's, but if Gates could point them to offshore bank accounts, or damning emails, etc, that would be a whole 'nother thing. And that's what they'd want.

....
No need, the accountant is sufficiently incriminating Manafort re those undisclosed overseas accounts.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 05:55 PM   #2064
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No need, the accountant is sufficiently incriminating Manafort re those undisclosed overseas accounts.
From what I've read so far, the accountants' testimony has been pretty damning, and I can't imagine that the feds hadn't thought to talk to the accountants until Gates suggested it.

Kinda makes me wonder what Gates gave them, because it doesn't look like the Feds needed anything.

Maybe Gates gave them the bogus invoices?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 06:00 PM   #2065
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Quote:
Trump learned the power of misinformation long before taking office, when he started spreading the lie that former president Barack Obama was secretly a Kenyan-born Muslim.
I remember when these insane tweets were coming out.

Not having any previous memories of Trump in the political commentary arena, I found myself wondering, "How can he just lie like that?"

But on further inspection, he didn't say Obama wasn't born in the US. All of his commentary was just JAQing off. He bakes some kind of plausible deniability into everything he says. Along with his inner circle and handlers, they've been strongly building up that his words can't possibly mean ANYTHING when challenged. That's like 90% of his MO.

The same thing comes up with Giuliani and others in Trump's orbit. They sure as hell feel like they're making claims, but the phrasing always leaves them room to back out of practically anything. It can always be potentially spun in a number of ways that serve their interests given potential facts revealed in the future.

It's not exactly lies (although misleading is the intent) or even BS. Both of those things require that speech makes some claim, has some meaning that can be pinned down. And his speech has pretty much no meaning except vague emotional gestures towards things.

This has worked FABULOUSLY for him with his public, but I doubt that the intelligence community would be so patient with this crap as the rest of the world has been.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 08:20 PM   #2066
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Feinstein is a Chinese spy.
Got evidence?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 09:31 PM   #2067
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Got evidence?
A Chinese spy has been working in her office for 20 years. That should do it, don't you think. Trump was declared a Russian agent because his son had a meeting with some Russians one time, so this is a slam dunk job for a Special Counsel.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:03 PM   #2068
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
A Chinese spy has been working in her office for 20 years.
I see. On a quick look, looks like it was her driver. Glad the spy got caught.

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
That should do it, don't you think.
No.

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Trump was declared a Russian agent because his son had a meeting with some Russians one time, so this is a slam dunk job for a Special Counsel.
No. But you were obviously trolling (badly) from the start, so there's no point in responding further.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:08 PM   #2069
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
A Chinese spy has been working in her office for 20 years. That should do it, don't you think. Trump was declared a Russian agent because his son had a meeting with some Russians one time, so this is a slam dunk job for a Special Counsel.
Holy moly, we should have a contest for the best straw-man-cherry-picker. I'd nominate this post.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 10:18 PM   #2070
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Feinstein is a Chinese spy.

Liar.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 11:53 PM   #2071
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
A Chinese spy has been working in her office for 20 years. That should do it, don't you think. Trump was declared a Russian agent because his son had a meeting with some Russians one time, so this is a slam dunk job for a Special Counsel.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Holy moly, we should have a contest for the best straw-man-cherry-picker. I'd nominate this post.
100%.

If there was a special category for straw-stundies, that post would win it hands down!
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Old 4th August 2018, 08:39 AM   #2072
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https://www.vox.com/2018/8/4/1764922...er-roger-stone

Quote:
Roger Stone, the political operative and Donald Trump adviser, is in the crosshairs of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation. In the process of investigating Stone’s activities in 2016, prosecutors are also asking questions of his associates.

That includes Kristin Davis, also known as the “Manhattan Madam” who once ran a high-end prostitution ring in New York City. CNN reported Friday that Davis met with Mueller’s team for a voluntary interview, though prosecutors may look to subpoena her and have her testify before a grand jury.
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Old 4th August 2018, 08:52 AM   #2073
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
How sleazy. Time to go focus on Avenatti or the Clintons some more.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:20 AM   #2074
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To give some proper perspective to partisan politics. The GOP led House of Representatives has held over 200 hearings into Hillary's emails. Of which only minor issues were ever discovered. OTOH, Despite the FBI, the NSA, the CIA and foreign intelligence services that have all concluded there was Russian meddling in the 2016 election and that meddling continues, there has been precisely 3 on this.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:28 AM   #2075
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Clinton continues to be used as a distraction by the Trump WH. They easily manipulate their base by using their hate for her. And the fall for it every time. Don't look at Trump's crazy, lying tweets or behavior! Look over there! Clinton, Clinton, 30,000 emails, Benghazi, Whitewater, Pizzagate, pantsuit!
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:28 AM   #2076
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
To give some proper perspective to partisan politics. The GOP led House of Representatives has held over 200 hearings into Hillary's emails. Of which only minor issues were ever discovered. OTOH, Despite the FBI, the NSA, the CIA and foreign intelligence services that have all concluded there was Russian meddling in the 2016 election and that meddling continues, there has been precisely 3 on this.

If they go looking they might see something they don't want to be known for seeing.

It's a variation on the Towel Defense. If they don't see it, it doesn't exist.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:51 AM   #2077
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
If they go looking they might see something they don't want to be known for seeing.

It's a variation on the Towel Defense. If they don't see it, it doesn't exist.
True, but as important as their negligence in investigating foreign interference, the nonsense of their phony email investigation is telling.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:12 PM   #2078
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
There are 17 angry democrats now? I thought it was 13! must be inflation. Thanks Trump.
17th letter of the alphabet is Q. I wonder if he's throwing a bone to his conspiracy theory fans.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:17 PM   #2079
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
To give some proper perspective to partisan politics. The GOP led House of Representatives has held over 200 hearings into Hillary's emails. Of which only minor issues were ever discovered. OTOH, Despite the FBI, the NSA, the CIA and foreign intelligence services that have all concluded there was Russian meddling in the 2016 election and that meddling continues, there has been precisely 3 on this.
Clinton's lax private server compromised national security. Russian meddling -- if it occurred -- assuming it made any difference -- speculating that it benefited Trump rather than Clinton -- only strengthened national security because we got an America first president.
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Old 4th August 2018, 11:38 PM   #2080
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
17th letter of the alphabet is Q. I wonder if he's throwing a bone to his conspiracy theory fans.
Good one!



I think you're Q, now.
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