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23rd June 2018, 03:40 PM | #321 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Baseless:
This is well out of date now, but I CBA to update it and it's sufficient
Remember the Watergate investigation took far longer. Do you want more evidence? Cohen looks to have flipped too. |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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23rd June 2018, 03:53 PM | #322 |
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23rd June 2018, 04:09 PM | #323 |
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A general comment on the impeach Trump polls:
It is hard to see what they might mean. Regardless of the situation a large part of the opposing party's membership always will favor impeachment. And a lot of people see it as a serious step that shouldn't be taken unless there are very significant transgressions on the part of the POTUS. And in the current circumstances this group may not have seen enough to justify an impeachment proceeding of the POTUS. And a large chunk of the party of the POTUS will not favor impeachment under almost all situations. And then there is a group that thinks that while they might favor impeachment for some of the stuff the president is known to have done the political situation in the country while the president still enjoys significant support makes it such that an impeachment proceeding would not be in the interest of the country. And some of the people polled might have nuanced views about an impeachment. For these people what does it mean if they are forced to pick a yes or no answer? Until things shake out a bit I don't think that polls on this question make much sense because interpreting the significance of the poll results is not possible. |
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23rd June 2018, 06:29 PM | #324 |
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23rd June 2018, 08:34 PM | #325 |
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So you think a 'large' number of democrats are so blindly partisan that they would call for impeachment no matter what the situation? Even if (for example) Trump fully cooperated with Mueller, the Russia investigation exonerated him and he started acting like a real president? I disagree. I think that most democrats would have a much better opinion of Trump if he showed even a modicum of competence and decency, and then any cries for impeachment would only come from a lunatic fringe.
Quote:
For example, a recent USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll found that 58% of Americans would support impeachment if Trump were to pardon himself for a criminal charge related to the Russia's investigation, and that includes 31% republicans. According to the poll just 17% of republicans would support him if he pardoned himself, which suggests the partisanship is much lower than you are suggesting.
Quote:
Quote:
Public opinion polls on impeachment |
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23rd June 2018, 10:21 PM | #326 |
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Better? Sure. Even so, given the abominable performance that Trump's already given, I doubt that opinions of him would get much less negative, though. If he admitted his wrongs, undid the evils that he's done, and added restitution on top, that would help a fair bit, on the other hand. If it were a more normal Republican President in general, though, the calls would largely be limited to the extreme fringe. To give a different example, though, Bush's invasion that was immersed in his lies, of course, raised support for impeachment, but that support was based on his actions, not his party affliation.
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24th June 2018, 02:34 AM | #327 |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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24th June 2018, 02:50 AM | #328 |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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24th June 2018, 06:50 AM | #329 |
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"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 |
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24th June 2018, 07:50 AM | #330 |
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24th June 2018, 08:27 AM | #331 |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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24th June 2018, 10:13 AM | #332 |
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24th June 2018, 10:54 AM | #333 |
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I don't see anything there that supports the assertion that there is a growing consensus "that there was a ton of monkey business with the FBI 302's and that McCabe (who actually lied repeatedly under oath) had a hand in it." Your link merely shows that the term "Fbi 302" has seen a recent spike in the number of times it has been googled, with 100 searches each on the 20th and 21st of this month before returning to the baseline of 0 on the 22nd.
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24th June 2018, 10:56 AM | #334 |
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24th June 2018, 10:56 AM | #335 |
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24th June 2018, 11:07 AM | #336 |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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24th June 2018, 11:09 AM | #337 |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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24th June 2018, 11:25 AM | #338 |
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I don’t recall making the claim that was the exclusive evidence. In fact this discussion started with an extraordinarily detailed article, but as is common, one ignores the extraordinarily detailed article to pick nits, which I understand is a strategy that is common. I cherish it, because the towering colossus that is the article goes totally unrebutted while we go and nibble crumbs in the kitchen.
In any event, twas part of the evidence. How about that article, take the time to make a deep dive into yet? You should do so. |
24th June 2018, 11:42 AM | #339 |
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24th June 2018, 12:08 PM | #340 |
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24th June 2018, 12:12 PM | #341 |
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It's exciting to watch the give and take, the match of wits, during a pinning jello the the wall match.
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24th June 2018, 12:14 PM | #342 |
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The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb |
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24th June 2018, 12:16 PM | #343 |
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I provided two already, you’ll excuse me if I do not waste my time further picking nits.
Ok one more https://youtu.be/5zyFXYwFsPA I am such a good guy. |
24th June 2018, 12:20 PM | #344 |
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Thanks, you had the chance to read the comprehensive article I posted?
Really eye opening stuff. A bit more background. https://saraacarter.com/meadows-fbi-...investigation/ |
24th June 2018, 12:21 PM | #345 |
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More:
Meadows was questioning Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz, saying “there is growing evidence that 302s [FBI interview reports] were edited and changed. Those 302s, it is suggested that they were changed to either prosecute or not prosecute individuals. And that is very troubling.” |
24th June 2018, 12:26 PM | #346 |
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Rather than dominate the thread, I think what I will do is post comprehensive evidence that the 302’s were improperly modified. Give avid readers some time to digest it, and I will answer serious thoughtful questions.
Then move on to the next building block of my earlier comment. Got plenty for you to chew on, so can you let me know what questions you have? |
24th June 2018, 12:46 PM | #347 |
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I grew up at a time relatively close to the end of WWII and one of the things I wondered about as a child was how the US had managed to avoid Hitler like leadership in its history. I didn't know why then and I still don't but my idea was that some combination of the cultural belief in the importance of the rule of law and the diversity of US religions and cultures prevented any one group from thinking it would be in their interest to impose their wishes on the population as a whole since they might not have the political power to succeed. Spring forward 50 years or so and a lot of what I believed when I was young about American exceptionalism (I didn't know that term as a child but it is a good term to describe my thoughts back then) has been disproved, starting with the Republican reaction to Richard Nixon. His actions were clearly criminal and I thought either political party would have favored impeachment in that situation. The Republicans didn't. They circled the wagons around their guy against the interests of the country and only relented after the evidence against Nixon became a political liability for themselves. The second George Bush administration was an eye opener for me. I thought no American president would take the country to war based on clear cut lies. I thought that opposition to torture was a core American value. I also thought that no American president would expend the lives of American soldiers to promote business opportunities for their cronies. I was wrong about all of that and once more my ideas about American exceptionalism were shown to be wrong. Spring forward to the current situation. The US has elected an addled child like president whose main skill is to tell people lies they want to hear. He is without empathy, ethics or morality and yet he enjoys the support of about 40% of the population. A lot of the techniques he used to get elected and to sustain his support are right out of the Hitler play book. He enjoys the corrupt support of Fox News that is deriving a great deal of income by pandering to and misleading the Trump supporters. This coupled with the support of other media organizations like the National Enquirer are enabling behavior which would have been disabling for any other administration in my lifetime at least. Trump now is cementing his power base with appointments based on the sole criteria of personal loyalty to the president. Trump is routinely undermining the rule of law abetted by Fox News lies and misrepresentations about the Mueller investigation. Fox News has effectively stopped any opposition to Trump by the Republican Party by making it impossible for Republicans to win elections that oppose Trump. Altogether a scary situation in my view. But I am optimistic that Trump and his cronies will not succeed in destroying the American Democracy. Not because their morality or ethics limit what they are willing to do. They will fail partially because the American Democratic institutions are holding for right now and because Trump is an old man and he is on the cusp of entering the time when he will not be able to consolidate the gains he is making towards the destruction of the American democracy. The above is a longer summary of what I meant by the post rwguinn asked about. |
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The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb |
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24th June 2018, 01:59 PM | #348 |
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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24th June 2018, 02:06 PM | #349 |
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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24th June 2018, 02:10 PM | #350 |
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I think so as well and that, now that you remind me, is one of the ideas I had about this when I was thinking about it many years ago. ETA: Capitalism is also a key part of the distribution of power in the US. It is one of the stronger arguments against societies moving towards too much government involvement in business. |
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The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb |
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24th June 2018, 02:39 PM | #351 |
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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24th June 2018, 02:47 PM | #352 |
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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24th June 2018, 02:49 PM | #353 |
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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24th June 2018, 02:58 PM | #354 |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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24th June 2018, 02:59 PM | #355 |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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24th June 2018, 03:00 PM | #356 |
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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24th June 2018, 03:03 PM | #357 |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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24th June 2018, 03:04 PM | #358 |
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I suspect we have somewhat different views on the optimal mix of capitalism and socialism in a society, regardless I agree with you about the concentration of wealth being a problem, but one of the main reasons it is a problem is that wealthy people use their wealth to gain special advantages by legally and illegally bribing politicians which I see as a kind of socialism for the rich. |
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The way of truth is along the path of intellectual sincerity. -- Henry S. Pritchett Perfection is the enemy of good enough -- Russian proverb |
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24th June 2018, 03:36 PM | #359 |
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I'm a Keynesian, so hardly a firebrand. I'm a firm believer that a reasonably prosperous and secure middle class to which everyone can aspire is the foundation of a sound and progressive society. Keynesian redistribution did produce that, and it's the middle class which has really taken the hit since it was abandoned.
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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24th June 2018, 03:39 PM | #360 |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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