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Tags LGBT issues , London incidents , protest incidents , transsexual issues

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Old 12th July 2018, 05:30 AM   #41
Aber
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Because obviously they don't want anything that can pull the rug from under their victimhood.
Are you seriously arguing that there is not a gender pay gap?
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Old 12th July 2018, 05:34 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What has this to do with "the alt left" or "alt right"?
Well, the obsessive, viscous identity politics thing really is a "leftwing" (when defined as "not rightwing") problem for the most part, notwithstanding the fact that "white identity" neonazis are the only really frighting faction obsessed with their own demographic (excluding economic class) in that way.
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Old 12th July 2018, 05:39 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Still not understanding how this is a fault of the "left" and not a fault of all extremism, whether right, left, liberal and so on.
Rightwing "identity politics" are all about race.

Leftwing "identity politics" are about all the other identities people have, so there are more things to debate about.

These seem to be the general, not firm rules. I'm sure I could find all kinds of exotic exceptions if I thought about it long enough.
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Last edited by kellyb; 12th July 2018 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 12th July 2018, 09:37 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
Are you seriously arguing that there is not a gender pay gap?
I would say it depends on what you mean. There is a gap and probably always will be. It doesn't arise from women being paid less for doing the same job though as that is illegal.

It comes from choice. It happens even in the gig economy.

http://fortune.com/2018/02/06/uber-g...pay-gap-study/
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Old 12th July 2018, 09:39 AM   #45
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and the point remains that you don't even have to deny the wage gap.

If there is a wage gap that is due to gender, then changing your gender will change the problem, ie removing an excuse to victimhood for those who want to claim said victimhood
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Old 12th July 2018, 08:21 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Rightwing "identity politics" are all about race.

Leftwing "identity politics" are about all the other identities people have, so there are more things to debate about.

These seem to be the general, not firm rules. I'm sure I could find all kinds of exotic exceptions if I thought about it long enough.
WOW, I got the above wrong. That was totally my white-person-centered worldview showing. Yikes.
I retract.

I'm now as lost as Darat on where any of this lies on any sort of political spectrum.
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Old 13th July 2018, 12:17 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Stankeye View Post
I would say it depends on what you mean. There is a gap and probably always will be. It doesn't arise from women being paid less for doing the same job though as that is illegal.
Illegal, but still happens...

UK has recently introduced a requirement for employers with more than 250 staff to report pay by gender and explain inequalities. This seems to have been very effective in addressing the issues.

https://gender-pay-gap.service.gov.uk/

If gender becomes a matter of self-identification, this approach becomes difficult.
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Old 13th July 2018, 12:30 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
Illegal, but still happens...

UK has recently introduced a requirement for employers with more than 250 staff to report pay by gender and explain inequalities. This seems to have been very effective in addressing the issues.

https://gender-pay-gap.service.gov.uk/

If gender becomes a matter of self-identification, this approach becomes difficult.
Why does it become difficult.?
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Old 13th July 2018, 01:17 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
Are you seriously arguing that there is not a gender pay gap?
You seem to have missed the point.
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Old 13th July 2018, 01:22 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
Illegal, but still happens...

UK has recently introduced a requirement for employers with more than 250 staff to report pay by gender and explain inequalities. This seems to have been very effective in addressing the issues.

https://gender-pay-gap.service.gov.uk/

If gender becomes a matter of self-identification, this approach becomes difficult.
Effective how? Such bald statistics lack the nuance to understand what is actually happening, and the media and feminists just perpetuate the "Wah! Men get paid more than us!" mantra.
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Old Yesterday, 09:31 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
Illegal, but still happens...

UK has recently introduced a requirement for employers with more than 250 staff to report pay by gender and explain inequalities. This seems to have been very effective in addressing the issues.

https://gender-pay-gap.service.gov.uk/

If gender becomes a matter of self-identification, this approach becomes difficult.
Wow, that's idiotic idea. Law of unintended consequences (alongside of Brexit) will have field years with such stupidity.
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Old Yesterday, 03:01 PM   #52
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https://www.peaktrans.org/london-pri...ess-feminists/
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Old Today, 04:55 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Warning: That link is to a TERF hate site.
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Old Today, 05:06 AM   #54
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Why not let people read it for themselves and make up their own minds?
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Old Today, 05:11 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Why not let people read it for themselves and make up their own minds?
I for one won't usually follow blind links posted without comment.

If you have something to say, say it here, and cite the link as a reference.
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Old Today, 05:52 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
This is what every body keeps telling the alt left will happen when you insist on putting everyone into groups
Ehh, no.
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Old Today, 06:00 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I for one won't usually follow blind links posted without comment.

If you have something to say, say it here, and cite the link as a reference.

The article explains the incident from the point of view of the women. There is no hate there and I entirely concur with the author.
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Old Today, 06:48 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
It's ALT-right and CTRL-left.
Actually ALT-GR-right.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old Today, 07:11 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The article explains the incident from the point of view of the women. There is no hate there and I entirely concur with the author.
What explanation do they give, and why do you agree?
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Old Today, 08:20 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
The article explains the incident from the point of view of the women. There is no hate there and I entirely concur with the author.
It's clearly anti-trans and pro-TERF. It's certainly trans-denialist, using the same sort of "arguments" that the American right-wing uses to stoke bogus fear of transgender people. It insists that transwomen are just predatory "men," and that transmen do not actually exist, but rather are misdiagnosed butch lesbians, this being deemed to be "lesbian eradication." It's ironic that one historically suppressed sexuality is looking to oppress another based on lazy stereotyping and denial that the "other" really exists.
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Old Today, 10:10 AM   #61
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I'm more interested in the explanation for the serried ranks of blokes lining up to support the guys in dresses and bad wigs in their campaign to colonise and subvert women's protected spaces and groups.

No wait, I'm not. I know the explanation. Male solidarity, and you get to oppress women while still pretending to be right-on and progressive. Way to go, guys.
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Old Today, 10:24 AM   #62
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lol "male solidarity" is your explanation for people who are pro-trans in this regard?
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Old Today, 10:32 AM   #63
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Wait, what's the explanation for the women who are in support of this? Is that also "male solidarity?"

Internalized misogyny?
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Old Today, 11:36 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I'm more interested in the explanation for the serried ranks of blokes lining up to support the guys in dresses and bad wigs in their campaign to colonise and subvert women's protected spaces and groups.

No wait, I'm not. I know the explanation. Male solidarity, and you get to oppress women while still pretending to be right-on and progressive. Way to go, guys.
Where is the evidence of such a "campaign"? It seems to be as much in the minds of the protestors as the myth of the predatory male pretending to be female of the US restroom wars. All the transgender people I know just want to get on with their lives in the face of society-wider prejudice.
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Old Today, 11:41 AM   #65
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Haven't you heard? Most trans women are actually predatory men that want access to "women's spaces"

Oh wait, no they're not. This also only applies to trans women not trans men.
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Old Today, 11:43 AM   #66
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There's obviously a great deal of selective reading going on here, so I'll leave you to your communal woman-bashing session.
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Old Today, 11:46 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
There's obviously a great deal of selective reading going on here, so I'll leave you to your communal woman-bashing session.
You didn't even try for selective reading, you went to outright fabrication
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Old Today, 11:47 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
guys in dresses and bad wigs in their campaign to colonise and subvert women's protected spaces and groups.
Evidence?
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Old Today, 11:48 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
There's obviously a great deal of selective reading going on here, so I'll leave you to your communal woman-bashing session.
And who would a comment like "guys in dresses and bad wigs" be bashing?
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Old Today, 12:04 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The need to group everyone comes from the uber left
The irony of this statement isn't deliberate, is it?
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Old Today, 12:55 PM   #71
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The anti-trans bigotry here is eerily similar to the kinds of posts made by Skeptic Tank regarding POC and "multiculturalism." They come across the same way — the self-justification and self-victimhood... it's sad in a way.
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