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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old Today, 11:27 AM   #3361
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
As far as I can tell, there were no other options. The GOP had vowed not to work with the Obama administration on anything, including a health care plan previously championed by conservatives. They might as well have passed single-payer UHC; either was going to be completely unsupported by Republicans. Now it's become politically untenable to go back to the status quo, which was that insurance coverage could be denied to anyone with a pre-existing condition. If nothing else comes out of the ACA, that's progress, IMO.

ETA: as for that last sentence: It's the only way things can happen in this country in recent years. Dems didn't start that.
It is in the nature of progressives to try to make change happen. It is in the nature of conservatives to restrain that progressive impulse.

Telling me that the only way to make change happen is over the vehement protests of half the country is a terrible strategy for getting me on your side for those changes.

Quote:
ETA2: The thread title? Why have we been dragged back to stuff that happened 10 years ago?
Because it's a good example of what happens when you make a virtue of forcing change by a bare majority. And it didn't just happen ten years ago. It's a process that started ten years ago, and with consequences happening right now.
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Old Today, 11:30 AM   #3362
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Perhaps. What it specifically was, after all, was McConnell outright refusing to let the Senate do its constitutionally mandated job.
I disagree. I think the Senate did in fact do its constitutionally mandated job.
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Old Today, 02:21 PM   #3363
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Sounds to me like Biden's aiming his pitch to Republican donors rather than Democratic voters.
They're already on board - he's just talking their book.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/wa...ll-picked-out/

With a quiet $1 on Butty & Harris, just in case.

Anything, as long as Warren or Sanders don't win.

Which immediately suggests to me that the entire Democratic movement should jump on board the Liz Warren train immediately, giving voters a clear choice of joining the 21st century, or staying the world's laughing-stock for four more years.
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Old Today, 02:46 PM   #3364
Minoosh
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Telling me that the only way to make change happen is over the vehement protests of half the country is a terrible strategy for getting me on your side for those changes.
There was literally no mechanism for Dems to get any Republicans on their side, because the GOP adopted a policy of going against the Dems on everything.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Because it's a good example of what happens when you make a virtue of forcing change by a bare majority. And it didn't just happen ten years ago. It's a process that started ten years ago, and with consequences happening right now.
Then I don't know what you think should happen. There would have been no health care reform of any sort without Dems using their majority. And now it's not acceptable to refuse insurance coverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition (which is just about everybody over, say, 40).
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Old Today, 03:11 PM   #3365
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Completely delusional about the GOP.

Poor Obama thought that too. We saw what happened.

It's amazing how the Republicans make no bones about their disdain of Democrat policies, as center-left as they often are and status quo Democrats constantly want to meet Republicans in the middle, wherever that middle happens to be.
Obama, at least, didn't have quite such obvious precedent - it made sense to try in 2009-2010, hell back then Boehner was at least not just mindlessly anti-Obama, republicans presented their (unworkable for the most part) health care proposals, and so forth. Once 12010 rolled around, though, we got a massive faction in the House that would simply oppose whatever it was that Obama said, same a McConnell, to the point of refusing accept their own stated goals when Obama presented them.And so we got vote after vote to take away people's health care access, often just so newly voted in members could get a chance. No thought, no policy, just dogs chasing a car. And when they finally caught it, what did they do?

Tax cuts for the rich. And aside from that, nothing. How pathetic.

ETA: In any case, Biden's insistence that the GOP will learn to behave once Dolt 45 is gone is confused. As I have said repeatedly (and I'm fairly certain I got it from someone else - plenty of other people here have said the same, after all) He's not the disease, he's merely a symptom. The current GOP is a group that knows full well that it cannot continue to rule in a functional democracy without changing who they appeal to strongly. And so they have decided to render US democracy dysfunctional.

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Old Today, 04:05 PM   #3366
Cabbage
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It is in the nature of progressives to try to make change happen. It is in the nature of conservatives to restrain that progressive impulse.

Telling me that the only way to make change happen is over the vehement protests of half the country is a terrible strategy for getting me on your side for those changes.



Because it's a good example of what happens when you make a virtue of forcing change by a bare majority. And it didn't just happen ten years ago. It's a process that started ten years ago, and with consequences happening right now.
What your position ignores is that currently, Republicans oppose Democratic policies not based on the merits of said policies, but the simple fact that they are Democratic policies. You speak of "strategy". LOL! The GOP has already decided on their "strategy": "Hell No!" to anything Democrats propose. With them it's party before country; they refuse to allow any Democratic policy a chance at succeeding--they're afraid it will take away their own support, nation be damned. No Democratic strategy can bridge a gap where one side refuses to listen, so why bother trying to win Republican support/compromise? Sincere question, and I doubt you have a good answer.
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Old Today, 04:12 PM   #3367
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Guaranteed if Sanders gets the nod, he wins.
Just keep living in fantasy land.Trump would love that.
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Old Today, 04:13 PM   #3368
Cabbage
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It is in the nature of progressives to try to make change happen. It is in the nature of conservatives to restrain that progressive impulse.

Telling me that the only way to make change happen is over the vehement protests of half the country is a terrible strategy for getting me on your side for those changes.



Because it's a good example of what happens when you make a virtue of forcing change by a bare majority. And it didn't just happen ten years ago. It's a process that started ten years ago, and with consequences happening right now.
It went through the Constitutional process of passing a bill. Do you have a problem with that?

Last edited by Cabbage; Today at 04:15 PM.
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