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Old 12th February 2019, 10:23 AM   #1
JoeMorgue
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Wreck of the USS Hornet located

Quote:
The research vessel Petrel is perched on a spot in the South Pacific Ocean that was anything but peaceful 77 years ago. Then, it was the scene of a major World War II battle between the U.S. and the Imperial Japanese Navies. For the U.S. aircraft carrier, Hornet, it would be her last battle.

Now, researchers are revealing Petrel found the wreckage of the USS Hornet in late January – exactly what they were looking for. The ship was found more than 17,000 feet below the surface, on the floor of the South Pacific Ocean near the Solomon Islands. The USS Hornet is best known for launching the important Doolittle Raid in April of 1942 and its role in winning the Battle of Midway.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uss-hor...I-s2zFG3QojpE4
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Old 12th February 2019, 10:58 AM   #2
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That is exciting!
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Old 12th February 2019, 11:54 AM   #3
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Wow!

That is amazing that something so old could be found in such incredibly deep water.
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:13 PM   #4
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I think that all of the US Fleet carriers sunk in World War 2 have been located now.
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think that all of the US Fleet carriers sunk in World War 3 have been located now.
You have a time machine!?
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Old 12th February 2019, 12:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You have a time machine!?
TYpo fixed.
But speaking of World War 2 carriers and time travel remember the Final Countdown where the USS Nimitz is warped back in time to Dec 6th 1941, close to Hawaii?
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Old 12th February 2019, 01:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You have a time machine!?
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
TYpo fixed.
But speaking of World War 2 carriers and time travel remember the Final Countdown where the USS Nimitz is warped back in time to Dec 6th 1941, close to Hawaii?
I liked the typo. I mean, it's possible that all of the American carriers sunk in WWIII have been located. In port, at sea, and so on.

Except possibly those that have not yet been built.
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Old 12th February 2019, 01:27 PM   #8
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Actually, I might be mistaken;I don't think the USS Wasp has been located.
And I said fleet carriers;I know most of the CVE"e Escort Carriers have not been located.
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Old 12th February 2019, 04:43 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
But speaking of World War 2 carriers and time travel remember the Final Countdown where the USS Nimitz is warped back in time to Dec 6th 1941, close to Hawaii?


I always felt a bit ripped off at the ending. I wanted to see the F-14s tearing up the Zeros!

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Old 12th February 2019, 06:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
TYpo fixed.
But speaking of World War 2 carriers and time travel remember the Final Countdown where the USS Nimitz is warped back in time to Dec 6th 1941, close to Hawaii?
Oh, I do. That was a pretty good cast for what was essentially a "popcorn" movie... Kirk Douglas, Martin Sheen, Charles Durning & James Farentino

I liked that line when Durning is trying to warnl Pearl Harbour over the radio about the attack, and the radio operator at Pearl tells him he's a fake because no US navy ships are named after serving officer of the line.
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Old 13th February 2019, 09:08 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I just want to say, 17000 feet deep is really, really a long way down in the water.
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Old 13th February 2019, 11:03 AM   #12
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I wonder how long Petrel will continue to do this work after the death of Paul Allen.
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I just want to say, 17000 feet deep is really, really a long way down in the water.
But not all that much more than average for the Pacific Ocean.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Pacific-Ocean

The mean depth of the Pacific (excluding adjacent seas) is 14,040 feet
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:17 AM   #14
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This article has some more photos, the striking one for me is the International Harvester tractor, sitting upright like it could be driven today.

Also note the rubber tubing still intact on the Antiaircraft guns.
https://www.foxnews.com/science/wrec...-south-pacific
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:36 AM   #15
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In a video of it they had a former gunner on the ship and they showed him his artillery piece and he noted he had left $40 in his locker aboard ship.
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Old 14th February 2019, 03:14 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
This article has some more photos, the striking one for me is the International Harvester tractor, sitting upright like it could be driven today.

Also note the rubber tubing still intact on the Antiaircraft guns.
https://www.foxnews.com/science/wrec...-south-pacific
I liked the shot of the Wildcats myself.
But the shot of the tractor is interesting;The navy generally used Jeeps to haul the planes into position.
This, BTW was a major advantage for the US Navy later in the war;they could launch and recover planes much quicker then the Japanese after, post Midway, they started using vehicals instead of man power to move the planes.
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Last edited by dudalb; 14th February 2019 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 14th February 2019, 08:14 PM   #17
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I'd guess they must have had the tractor tied down or wouldn't have stayed sitting there like that. Which would be a sensible thing to do on a moving ship anyhow.

I also liked the shot of the quad 1.1 inch AA machine gun with the red hoses, largely because while at the start of the war that was the most advanced system in the world, within a couple of years it was obsolete and almost none were in service at the end of the war, having been replaced by the 40mm Bofors. Japan, in contrast, was stuck with their 25mm clip-fed gun throughout the war, providing neither the rate of fire nor hitting power needed.

Interesting paragraph in Wikipedia about the battle of the Santa Cruz Islands, in which Hornet was lost:
Quote:
The most significant losses for the Japanese Navy were in aircrew. The U.S. lost 81 aircraft of the 175 U.S. aircraft at the start of the battle, of which 33 were fighters, 28 were dive-bombers, and 20 were torpedo bombers. Only 26 pilots and aircrew members were lost.[84] The Japanese fared much worse, especially in airmen; in addition to losing 99 aircraft of the 203 involved in the battle, they lost 148 pilots and aircrew members including two dive bomber group leaders, three torpedo squadron leaders, and eighteen other section or flight leaders.[85] Forty-nine percent of the Japanese torpedo bomber aircrews involved in the battle were killed along with 39% of the dive bomber crews and 20% of the fighter pilots.[86] The Japanese lost more aircrew at Santa Cruz than they had lost in each of the three previous carrier battles at Coral Sea (90), Midway (110), and Eastern Solomons (61). By the end of the Santa Cruz battle, at least 409 of the 765 elite Japanese carrier aviators who had participated in the attack on Pearl Harbor were dead.[87] Having lost so many of its veteran carrier aircrew, and with no quick way to replace them – because of an institutionalized limited capacity in its naval aircrew training programs and an absence of trained reserves – the undamaged Zuikaku and Jun'yō were also forced to return to Japan because of the scarcity of trained aircrew to man their air groups. Although the Japanese carriers returned to Truk by the summer of 1943, they played no further offensive role in the Solomon Islands campaign.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:41 PM   #18
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Does this now make it an official war grave?
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:23 PM   #19
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I suspect war grave status is for ships with few survivors. A ship that was abandoned or the crew transferred off before it sunk would not be.
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:19 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I liked the shot of the Wildcats myself.
But the shot of the tractor is interesting;The navy generally used Jeeps to haul the planes into position.
This, BTW was a major advantage for the US Navy later in the war;they could launch and recover planes much quicker then the Japanese after, post Midway, they started using vehicals instead of man power to move the planes.
Perhaps the tractors were used to move ordinance to the planes?
Torpedos, and 500 pound bombs for the Dauntless?

Here are some model building photos showing some tractors that were on the flight deck of WW2 carriers.
http://www.carrierbuilders.net/eleme...ent.php?id=998
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Does this now make it an official war grave?
Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
I suspect war grave status is for ships with few survivors. A ship that was abandoned or the crew transferred off before it sunk would not be.
140 men were lost with the Hornet. I cannot find a definitive source if the bodies went down with the ship or were removed when the crew abandoned ship before the ship went down. Given the nature of the circumstances of the sinking I'd say it's safe to assume at least some bodies are onboard.
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Old 15th February 2019, 09:58 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Perhaps the tractors were used to move ordinance to the planes?
Torpedos, and 500 pound bombs for the Dauntless?

Here are some model building photos showing some tractors that were on the flight deck of WW2 carriers.
http://www.carrierbuilders.net/eleme...ent.php?id=998
Interesting link, thanks! Also interesting that none of them were the sort of tractor seen on Hornet. The link mentions that the motive for moving away from manhandling airplanes was the increased size of the Grumman Avenger. The Navy probably took any expedient they could.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
140 men were lost with the Hornet. I cannot find a definitive source if the bodies went down with the ship or were removed when the crew abandoned ship before the ship went down. Given the nature of the circumstances of the sinking I'd say it's safe to assume at least some bodies are onboard.
I'd be surprised if any bodies were actually recovered. It just wouldn't have been a priority when you're abandoning ship.
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