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Old 15th February 2019, 07:10 AM   #121
GnaGnaMan
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Yeah, it's weird the level of reaction this has provoked.

I could understand it if it were a public entity, but the amount of ire for a failed private project is really odd.
TP isn't just another lone crackpot. I looked on conservative forums what was being said about this. The posters are all lock-step with TP. They really believe that Panera's charity is exactly how the Soviet union worked.
There's no one there who knows history and can set them straight. There isn't even anyone who is able to make a connection between this and opinion pieces that were circulated just a few weeks ago during the shutdown. Opinion pieces that argued that voluntary charity could replace mandatory government taxation.

I blame it on the intellectual sorting that happened in US politics. People with degrees have been driven to the democrats leaving conservative discussion groups at a mediocre high school level.

That should be quite worrying. These people mean well. They are ernestly and honestly trying to learn the lessons of history. They just don't have the mental wherewithal to do so. You could tell them anything is socialism to get them to oppose it. They're basically a human botnet.
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Old 15th February 2019, 09:44 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
TP isn't just another lone crackpot. I looked on conservative forums what was being said about this. The posters are all lock-step with TP. They really believe that Panera's charity is exactly how the Soviet union worked.
There's no one there who knows history and can set them straight. There isn't even anyone who is able to make a connection between this and opinion pieces that were circulated just a few weeks ago during the shutdown. Opinion pieces that argued that voluntary charity could replace mandatory government taxation.

I blame it on the intellectual sorting that happened in US politics. People with degrees have been driven to the democrats leaving conservative discussion groups at a mediocre high school level.

That should be quite worrying. These people mean well. They are ernestly and honestly trying to learn the lessons of history. They just don't have the mental wherewithal to do so. You could tell them anything is socialism to get them to oppose it. They're basically a human botnet.


Perhaps it's because defending the republican party has become an impossible task? It's displacement activity?
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:15 PM   #123
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Given that the failure rate of Restaurants in the first 3 years is 56% and that the average life span of a restaurant is just 5 years, I'm not sure that branding a Restaurant that lasted 9 years as a failure, would really be entirely true.

If anything, it shows that the more Libertarian ideals that, without taxes, people will happily fund whatever is needed out of the goodness of their hearts, model of economics is quite rubbish.
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Old 15th February 2019, 06:42 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Given that the failure rate of Restaurants in the first 3 years is 56% and that the average life span of a restaurant is just 5 years, I'm not sure that branding a Restaurant that lasted 9 years as a failure, would really be entirely true.

If anything, it shows that the more Libertarian ideals that, without taxes, people will happily fund whatever is needed out of the goodness of their hearts, model of economics is quite rubbish.
The restaurants were a failure all along. The parent company was propping them up with profits from their non failing restaurants.

Coincidentally, the profitable restaurants had a completely different business model.
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:00 PM   #125
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Only capitalist ventures thrive in a capitalist system.

And this is surprising why?
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:03 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Only capitalist ventures thrive in a capitalist system.



And this is surprising why?
It's not surprising at all. Unless you're Panera, apparently.

On the other hand, communist ventures seem struggle even in a community system. Why is that?
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Old 15th February 2019, 07:37 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not surprising at all. Unless you're Panera, apparently.

On the other hand, communist ventures seem struggle even in a community system. Why is that?
Mostly because you USAians screw it up.
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Old 15th February 2019, 08:41 PM   #128
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Even in the conservatively slanted link provided above, I see nothing that suggests Panera's management was surprised by the development. Disappointed, perhaps, but judging from the deterioration of the model and of its original intent (they had to limit meals to the homeless and put in security guards, it seems), and the fact that the news we're seeing now is about the last of a number of such restaurants closing, I think even if you think management was stupid to run the experiment, it seems very unlikely that they were stupid enough to be surprised.
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Old Yesterday, 01:40 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not surprising at all. Unless you're Panera, apparently.

On the other hand, communist ventures seem struggle even in a community system. Why is that?
Actual Socialist based ideas of running business (such as cooperatives) work pretty well. For instance, Fonterra is owned by the farmers that supply it and currently produces about 30% of the world Dairy exports, is New Zealand's largest company, and makes around NZ$17.2 billion a year.

Israel's Kibbutz work pretty well as well. In 2010, one of the 270 of them in Israel, Kibbutz Sasa, had an $850 million in annual revenue from its military-plastics industry. In total they produced 9% of Israel's industrial output and 40% of their agriculture, making $9.7 Billion.

Seems like Socialism in business can work pretty well.

The fact is that the experiment that Panera did, wasn't either socialism, nor communism. As I noted before, it is closer in kin to how many Libertarians want to fund the Government.
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; Yesterday at 01:43 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:06 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not surprising at all. Unless you're Panera, apparently.

On the other hand, communist ventures seem struggle even in a community system. Why is that?
This was a libertarian venture. Libertarianism fails because of free riders.
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Old Yesterday, 03:25 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
This was a libertarian venture. Libertarianism fails because of free riders.
You have your cause and effect the wrong way around.

It failed therefore it's socialist.
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Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM   #132
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Libertarianism fails because it is a ridiculous philosophy followed only by people who never progressed beyond the "edgy teen" stage.
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