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View Poll Results: General Election: What do you predict the outcome will be?
Conservative Majority <10 4 10.81%
Conservative Majority between 11 to 20 10 27.03%
Conservative Majority between 21 - 30 2 5.41%
Conservative Majority between 31 - 40 2 5.41%
Conservative Majority between 41 - 50 2 5.41%
Conservative Majority between 51 - 60 0 0%
Conservative Majority >61 1 2.70%
Labour close majority 1 2.70%
Labour majority > 10 0 0%
Hung Parliament 14 37.84%
Liberal Democrat majority 0 0%
Green Majority 0 0%
Other Majority - Brexit Party/Independents/Others 0 0%
Election? What Election? 1 2.70%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11th December 2019, 03:05 AM   #41
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....and of course that doesn't take into account "shy Conservatives" and the possible effects of tomorrow's weather.
Of course not. In truth the most important detail is the slow lurch towards the Conservatives in the past week. They were already ahead and there is no evidence of headwinds in the last ten days prior to election. It stands to reason they will not do significantly worse than their estimate and manage to scrape by a majority.

Quote:
If it wasn't for the fact that I'll likely also take a financial kicking, I'd be looking on with amused horror at the effects of a Conservative government over the next 5 years as the economy feels the full effects of Brexit and as the UK reinvents itself as a sweatshop to compete with the developing world
You'll need lots and lots of immigrants to become a sweatshop though. That's what makes sweatshops possible in the first place: people fleeing their wretched lives to something better in the sweatshop.

It is usually people from the farms who come to the cities but UK tapped that out over 100 years ago.

Irony is my favorite type of humor. I understand it's not as funny when your skin is on the line, but I suppose it's still somewhat funny.

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Old 11th December 2019, 03:19 AM   #42
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The same is true for anyone other than the top n% (where n is a small single digit number).

Even if the Conservatives do lower taxes for the middle classes, this will be more than offset by the long-term costs of borrowing and the additional costs that a woefully underfunded and understaffed NHS, education system and local services will inflict on the population at large.

A less nice person that I would be looking forward to the "gammons'" reaction when the reality of what they voted for hits home.

Unfortunately, the potential for schaudenfreuder in my household is considerably reduced by the fact that Brexit (specifically the effect the Brexit vote had on relocation into the UK) has already cost my wife her job and she was the (considerably) greater income. I'm less nice, I'd happily laugh at the idiots taking a pickaxe to the bottom of the boat they're in if it weren't the same boat I'm in.
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Old 11th December 2019, 06:19 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....and of course that doesn't take into account "shy Conservatives" and the possible effects of tomorrow's weather.



If it wasn't for the fact that I'll likely also take a financial kicking, I'd be looking on with amused horror at the effects of a Conservative government over the next 5 years as the economy feels the full effects of Brexit and as the UK reinvents itself as a sweatshop to compete with the developing world
Don't worry, I am confident we wont be a nation of sweatshops...., you don't think companies are going to bother with heating factories once we get rid of the silly regulations about working conditions?
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Old 11th December 2019, 06:21 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The same is true for anyone other than the top n% (where n is a small single digit number).



Even if the Conservatives do lower taxes for the middle classes, this will be more than offset by the long-term costs of borrowing and the additional costs that a woefully underfunded and understaffed NHS, education system and local services will inflict on the population at large.



A less nice person that I would be looking forward to the "gammons'" reaction when the reality of what they voted for hits home.
The number of people around here who decry the terrible state of the NHS but can't seem to connect that to the Tory funding cuts is astonishing. I have heard several times (presumably from a column or 12 in the Daily Mail or Telegraph) that it's the fault of the unions and Labour!
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Old 11th December 2019, 06:27 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The number of people around here who decry the terrible state of the NHS but can't seem to connect that to the Tory funding cuts is astonishing. I have heard several times (presumably from a column or 12 in the Daily Mail or Telegraph) that it's the fault of the unions and Labour!
I think you'll find that any issues with the NHS are down to it being swamped by millions of immigrants.....

One Brexit is done and all the brown people and Eastern Europeans go back to where they belong, then there'll be plenty of spare NHS capacity.
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Old 11th December 2019, 06:47 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think you'll find that any issues with the NHS are down to it being swamped by millions of immigrants.....

One Brexit is done and all the brown people and Eastern Europeans go back to where they belong, then there'll be plenty of spare NHS capacity.
I know you're only kidding, but in an exchange with ceptimus quite a while back I looked at the number of EU staff in the NHS and found it was greater, in %age terms, than the number of EU citizens in the UK. Given that the latter also tend to be of working age and less of a drain on the NHS than kids and wrinklies there could be a significant decline in NHS service (and it's already happening, I believe).

It would be hugely ironic, too, if EU doctors and nurses lost their right to NHS treatment, and I wouldn't put it past the more rabid in Johnson's cabinet to let it/make it happen.
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Old 11th December 2019, 07:08 AM   #47
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It will be a "let it happen" Johnson has no grasp of consequences, he's like the rest of his class - the comfortable class -, consequences simply means the clean up other people have to do.
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Old 11th December 2019, 07:43 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I know you're only kidding, but in an exchange with ceptimus quite a while back I looked at the number of EU staff in the NHS and found it was greater, in %age terms, than the number of EU citizens in the UK. Given that the latter also tend to be of working age and less of a drain on the NHS than kids and wrinklies there could be a significant decline in NHS service (and it's already happening, I believe).

It would be hugely ironic, too, if EU doctors and nurses lost their right to NHS treatment, and I wouldn't put it past the more rabid in Johnson's cabinet to let it/make it happen.
Yes, as you point out, EU immigrants are net contributors to the NHS in a variety of ways and if EU citizens choose to leave the UK post-Brexit there will be a disproportionately greater loss of NHS staff and tax receipts and lower reduction in demand.

I think it's right to be concerned about the impact on the NHS. Without the young, fit immigrants, the UK population will be increasingly old with a corresponding increase in demand for NHS services. At the same time, the working age population will be falling - a perfect storm in terms of NHS funding. Add in a layer of being forced to buy US pharmaceuticals and the ****-storm is complete
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Old 11th December 2019, 09:01 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Yes, as you point out, EU immigrants are net contributors to the NHS in a variety of ways and if EU citizens choose to leave the UK post-Brexit there will be a disproportionately greater loss of NHS staff and tax receipts and lower reduction in demand.



I think it's right to be concerned about the impact on the NHS. Without the young, fit immigrants, the UK population will be increasingly old with a corresponding increase in demand for NHS services. At the same time, the working age population will be falling - a perfect storm in terms of NHS funding. Add in a layer of being forced to buy US pharmaceuticals and the ****-storm is complete
Don't worry the Tories will continue their policies to ensure only the right people will live longer.

".....The Office for National Statistics data show that life expectancy at birth of males living in England’s most deprived areas was 74.0 years in the years 2015 to 2017, whereas it was 83.3 years in the least deprived, a gap of 9.3 years. Women in the least (sic) deprived areas of England were expected to live 78.7 years in 2015-17, while those in the most affluent were expected to live 86.2 years, a gap of 7.5 …"

Simply raise the pension age and hey presto no problem!
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Old 11th December 2019, 11:11 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think you'll find that any issues with the NHS are down to it being swamped by millions of immigrants.....

One Brexit is done and all the brown people and Eastern Europeans go back to where they belong, then there'll be plenty of spare NHS capacity.
******* bastards. Treating it like it was their own country.
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Old 11th December 2019, 04:04 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Don't worry the Tories will continue their policies to ensure only the right people will live longer.

".....The Office for National Statistics data show that life expectancy at birth of males living in England’s most deprived areas was 74.0 years in the years 2015 to 2017, whereas it was 83.3 years in the least deprived, a gap of 9.3 years. Women in the least (sic) deprived areas of England were expected to live 78.7 years in 2015-17, while those in the most affluent were expected to live 86.2 years, a gap of 7.5 …"

Simply raise the pension age and hey presto no problem!
I really wish this was hyperbole and didn't fit so well with Ian Duncan "I live in one of Daddy-in-Law's spare houses" Smith's projections for eventual pension age.
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Old 11th December 2019, 11:25 PM   #52
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Electoral calculus had the one final update (bastards!):

Tory: 348
Labour: 227
(rest unchanged)

It's basically statistical noise compared to the last two, one more seat for Labour at the expense of Tories. Unless there was a systematic error in the polls - which does not need to be greater than the published margin of ~3% - Tories will scrape by a majority.

It's remarkable that Labour is predicted to lose seats, given the circumstance. They should be winning hands down given the disastrous run the Tories had.

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Old 11th December 2019, 11:43 PM   #53
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Wales, and therefore Labour, are significantly over represented in the House of Commons. The average Welsh constituency has 57 thousand voters, compared the average English constituency of 73 thousand.

If the Boundary Commission were allowed to do its job and harmonize the size of all UK constituencies within 5% population of each other, that alone would likely ensure a Tory majority.

There are four problematic island constituencies that can't easily be harmonized. For example, the Isle of Wight is the constituency with the greatest population, but if the island were split into two constituencies, then the island would be significantly over represented in parliament. The lowest population of any constituency is a group of islands in the Scottish Hebrides. The pragmatic solution is to leave those four constituencies unchanged.
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Old 12th December 2019, 12:36 AM   #54
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Round-up of the forecasts here:

Hung Parliament: 38%

Conservative Majority between 11 - 20 seats: 27%

Conservative Majority 10 or fewer: 11%

Other outcome: 24%

I always like to look at the FINANCIAL TIMES to see what the ruling classes really think. It seems to be predicting a hung parliament or a narrow majority.

Back to square one?
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Old 12th December 2019, 01:07 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Back to square one?
We'll know in 18 hours or so, but both Mrs Don and I think that the polls have "got it wrong" - but in different directions.

Mrs Don thinks that Labour have a decent chance at a majority.

I disagree. I think that turnout will be low thanks to the weather which means that postal votes will have more effect than usual. This will be a boost for the Conservatives.

I also think that there are a lot of "shy Conservatives" who aren't thrilled with Boris Johnson but who have been spooked by the anti-Corbyn and anti-Labour smears.

I still think that there will be a large Conservative majority which will lead to a no-deal, or near no-deal Brexit with all that entails for the future of the UK
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Old 12th December 2019, 01:12 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post

It's remarkable that Labour is predicted to lose seats, given the circumstance. They should be winning hands down given the disastrous run the Tories had.

McHrozni
I think most people would be in favour of most Labour policies.

The trouble is that most people haven't read the manifestos and so are going on the summaries produced by the media, a lot of which is saying Labour = OMFG Communism.

OTOH the Conservatives have been given an easy ride. They have been very canny at realising that Boris Johnson shouldn't be allowed in front of the cameras for anything other than softball interviews and that there appears to be no negative consequences for him failing to appear.

Anyway, the UK electorate will richly deserve any and all consequences from our decision.
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Old 12th December 2019, 01:34 AM   #57
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The poll is closed, so I haven't voted in it, but would have picked hung parliament.

I don't think much will change from the last election. The country is still split down the middle over Brexit and that still dominates the reasons for voting. I think lots of people will be voting tactically, and while it won't be nearly enough to cause a tory loss that they won't get a majority either.

I'm a lifelong LibDem voter and I actually live in a constituency now where my orange vote might make a difference. Though I'm in the unfortunate position of not really agreeing with any of the main parties. The LibDems I disagree with the least, and handily they are the best placed party to unseat the tories here.
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Old 12th December 2019, 01:54 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think most people would be in favour of most Labour policies.

The trouble is that most people haven't read the manifestos and so are going on the summaries produced by the media, a lot of which is saying Labour = OMFG Communism.
I tried reading the Labour manifesto, the stuff that's in is not bad, per se. It's the stuff that's missing - what's their plan for the economy? Sure there are investments in green energy and all that is great and all, but the closest thing to the plan for economic development is a paragraph promising to build "3 new gigafactories and 4 new metal reprocessing plants" in the UK.

Um, it's not a plan for a game like Age of Empires or Europa Universalis you know. What's your vision for the UK a few years from now, what will the economy be based on, what will provide jobs, what will pay the bills? Green energy infrastructure is a good plan, I support that anywhere, but Labour manifesto comes woefully short on what will pay for it all.

I mean sure, there's the regular mumbo jumbo about supporting innovation and whatnot. What does that mean? The same manifesto tells the exact number of factories Labour will build, but when it comes to innovation it says "We will put British innovation at the heart of our procurement to support local sourcing and reshoring, so that every investment we make strengthens our manufacturing and engineering sectors and supply chains and creates hundreds of thousands of good, unionised jobs here at home."

Urgh. 80% of the economy is in services and they go on and on in primary sector (energy production) and steel industry, but don't even mention services.

I said it before in the other relevant thread. Labour is doing politics the wrong way, they gather popular opinions from polls and internet comments then shout it from rooftops. Of course most people will support their manifesto, it spouts what people want to hear. Yet if you ask the difficult questions it comes up empty, because Labour leadership is a bunch of incompetent populists.

The same is true for Tories of course.

Quote:
OTOH the Conservatives have been given an easy ride.
I personally believe Labour are being given the fair treatment and agree with you on the Conservatives. An easy ride is, if anything, an understatement.

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Old 12th December 2019, 01:58 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
We'll know in 18 hours or so, but both Mrs Don and I think that the polls have "got it wrong" - but in different directions.

Mrs Don thinks that Labour have a decent chance at a majority.

I disagree. I think that turnout will be low thanks to the weather which means that postal votes will have more effect than usual. This will be a boost for the Conservatives.

I also think that there are a lot of "shy Conservatives" who aren't thrilled with Boris Johnson but who have been spooked by the anti-Corbyn and anti-Labour smears.

I still think that there will be a large Conservative majority which will lead to a no-deal, or near no-deal Brexit with all that entails for the future of the UK
I don't think the tabloids have the same impact and influence they used to. People can now surf the papers online, together with twitter and news sites.

IMV newspapers should be prohibited from ordering people to vote for a particular party in the week leading up to the election.
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Old 12th December 2019, 02:04 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think most people would be in favour of most Labour policies.

The trouble is that most people haven't read the manifestos and so are going on the summaries produced by the media, a lot of which is saying Labour = OMFG Communism.

OTOH the Conservatives have been given an easy ride. They have been very canny at realising that Boris Johnson shouldn't be allowed in front of the cameras for anything other than softball interviews and that there appears to be no negative consequences for him failing to appear.

Anyway, the UK electorate will richly deserve any and all consequences from our decision.
Some people might have short memories but there are plenty who remember the shenanigans of prorogation, the Supreme Courts, the People's marches and Rees-Mogg spread out on a bench like Lord Snooty from the BEANO.

You wonder who the poll companies survey. The self-selected who log onto yougov? The middle-class shoppers in the shopping centres crammed with John Lewis, Fenwicks, Waitrose and M&S? People strolling down Kensington High Street?
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Old 12th December 2019, 02:10 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Some people might have short memories but there are plenty who remember the shenanigans of prorogation, the Supreme Courts, the People's marches and Rees-Mogg spread out on a bench like Lord Snooty from the BEANO.
The only people who remember, and more importantly care, weren't going to vote Conservative in any case. Those who are going to vote Conservative view prorogation as either perfectly OK, or a reasonable tactic to attempt to deliver Brexit, the People's Marches were just slackers on a day out and Rees-Mogg is someone they admire.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You wonder who the poll companies survey. The self-selected who log onto yougov? The middle-class shoppers in the shopping centres crammed with John Lewis, Fenwicks, Waitrose and M&S? People strolling down Kensington High Street?
The most reputable poll companies try very hard to get a representative sample. They cannot however do much if people lie about their voting intentions (either to the pollster, or even themselves in some cases).
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Old 12th December 2019, 02:14 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I don't think the tabloids have the same impact and influence they used to. People can now surf the papers online, together with twitter and news sites.
Maybe they do, but the Daily Mail, Sun and Daily Express get the most traffic and a lot of the OMFG-COMMUNISTS!!11!!1!!! posts from Conservative voters that appear in my social media feeds come from the tabloids.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
IMV newspapers should be prohibited from ordering people to vote for a particular party in the week leading up to the election.
Meh. Even if you were able to implement such a curtailment of free speech, the way in which stories are covered would make the message abundantly clear IMO.
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Old 12th December 2019, 02:39 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Maybe they do, but the Daily Mail, Sun and Daily Express get the most traffic and a lot of the OMFG-COMMUNISTS!!11!!1!!! posts from Conservative voters that appear in my social media feeds come from the tabloids.
That's true. The tabloids have quite limited direct influence but provide talking points and topic for their readership to disseminate furhter. Those do have significant direct influence.

In a way our society regressed in that idle chatter between acquintances again serves as a source of information for many people.

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Old 12th December 2019, 03:09 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
We'll know in 18 hours or so, but both Mrs Don and I think that the polls have "got it wrong" - but in different directions.



Mrs Don thinks that Labour have a decent chance at a majority.



I disagree. I think that turnout will be low thanks to the weather which means that postal votes will have more effect than usual. This will be a boost for the Conservatives.



I also think that there are a lot of "shy Conservatives" who aren't thrilled with Boris Johnson but who have been spooked by the anti-Corbyn and anti-Labour smears.



I still think that there will be a large Conservative majority which will lead to a no-deal, or near no-deal Brexit with all that entails for the future of the UK
And a continued decline in all public services. His "extra' for NHS England isn't even enough to keep up with inflation.
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Old 12th December 2019, 03:23 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Meh. Even if you were able to implement such a curtailment of free speech, the way in which stories are covered would make the message abundantly clear IMO.

Broadcast media has to obey strict rules on the matter, I hadn't realised how strict until this election when I've been listening to a lot of LBC. Obviously they are still able to give their opinions on facts and events but it has to be justifiable, unlike photoshopping the unliked party leader's face onto an animal, fowl or vegetable on the front page...
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Old 12th December 2019, 03:27 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
That's true. The tabloids have quite limited direct influence but provide talking points and topic for their readership to disseminate furhter. Those do have significant direct influence.

In a way our society regressed in that idle chatter between acquintances again serves as a source of information for many people.

McHrozni
I think the effect of front pages is underestimated, thousands of people who don't buy the paper still see the headline, whether through someone else reading it on public transport, copies lying around or displays when they stop at the petrol station. Maybe the Sun & Telegraph should be sold in a plain bag to protect uncorruptedminds?
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Old 12th December 2019, 03:44 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I think the effect of front pages is underestimated, thousands of people who don't buy the paper still see the headline, whether through someone else reading it on public transport, copies lying around or displays when they stop at the petrol station. Maybe the Sun & Telegraph should be sold in a plain bag to protect uncorruptedminds?
The Sun and Telegraph should register as foreign agents, first and foremost.

There are some laws around, gathering dust from the 1930s that were aimed to control Nazi propaganda, are they not? They should be applied, for the same reason as the laws were written in the first place.

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Old 12th December 2019, 03:54 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
The Sun and Telegraph should register as foreign agents, first and foremost.

There are some laws around, gathering dust from the 1930s that were aimed to control Nazi propaganda, are they not? They should be applied, for the same reason as the laws were written in the first place.

McHrozni
Unfortunately The Guardian had an article discussing other front pages. I caught The Sun's front page and I might need to bleach my brain.
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Old 12th December 2019, 03:58 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Unfortunately The Guardian had an article discussing other front pages. I caught The Sun's front page and I might need to bleach my brain.
Hm. Their web page has articles about huge queues to cast votes.

As a civilized Continental I find this disturbing. The longest queue I ever had to endure to cast my people was three people long, I was done with the whole process within 2.5 minutes, including the wait. I was annoyed by the queue, but able to endure it for the sake of democracy.

I find the Brits somewhat insane. I'm probably not alone either.

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Old 12th December 2019, 04:15 AM   #70
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“Live footage of working class Tory voters voting Tory”
https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/statu...048546816?s=21
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Old 12th December 2019, 09:59 PM   #71
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So who got it right then?
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Old 13th December 2019, 12:16 AM   #72
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And the winner is...The Don, who predicted >60 seat majority.
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Old 13th December 2019, 12:21 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I know I'm a bit of a Cassandra, but then again that doesn't mean I'm always wrong.

I fear that there may be a "perfect storm" of Corbyn being smeared or incompetent (depending on your point of view), botched attempts at tactical voting, a very low turnout among young voters, a complete collapse of the Brexit Party, high turnout among shy Conservatives which could result in a Tory landslide. I voted for 60+ majority but I think it could easily be 100+.
Congrats on your prediction.
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Old 13th December 2019, 12:41 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
And the winner is...The Don, who predicted >60 seat majority.
Not a winner

If you live in the UK, unless you're in the top 1% and/or a sociopath, this is a big loss.

Originally Posted by toto View Post
Congrats on your prediction.
I keep making these predictions in the hope I'll be wrong.

I may just be rich enough (probably a 5%er) and old enough (only got 30 years left, tops - especially with life expectancy likely to drop sharply in the UK) that we'll be able to weather the worst of Brexit, disastrous "fire sale" trade deals, the destruction of the NHS, education and the welfare system and all the other "benefits" of Conservative government.

I expect the Scots to vote for independence in the next parliament (whether they are permitted to hold the vote or not). If Scotland becomes independent, I think we'll have increasingly right-wing Conservative governments for the rest of my life.
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Old 13th December 2019, 12:53 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not a winner

If you live in the UK, unless you're in the top 1% and/or a sociopath, this is a big loss.



I keep making these predictions in the hope I'll be wrong.

I may just be rich enough (probably a 5%er) and old enough (only got 30 years left, tops - especially with life expectancy likely to drop sharply in the UK) that we'll be able to weather the worst of Brexit, disastrous "fire sale" trade deals, the destruction of the NHS, education and the welfare system and all the other "benefits" of Conservative government.

I expect the Scots to vote for independence in the next parliament (whether they are permitted to hold the vote or not). If Scotland becomes independent, I think we'll have increasingly right-wing Conservative governments for the rest of my life.
You're younger than me and probably fitter, so I'd say (hope) you have more than 30 years to go, also life expectancy dropping in the UK doesn't mean you will die sooner.

The rest of your post I agree with. I'm glad I'm not there.
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Old 13th December 2019, 01:03 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
You're younger than me and probably fitter, so I'd say (hope) you have more than 30 years to go, also life expectancy dropping in the UK doesn't mean you will die sooner.

The rest of your post I agree with. I'm glad I'm not there.
True, but the disembowelment of the NHS likely will.
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Old 13th December 2019, 05:50 AM   #77
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When I saw the exit poll I was gutted. On the bright side...there isn't one,except I've escaped just in time.
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Old 13th December 2019, 06:16 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
True, but the disembowelment of the NHS likely will.
Yep. I've never been able to get private coverage that would be at all worthwhile because of a couple of diagnosis when I was a teen.

My mother has been treated for 3 lots of cancer over the last 12 years, lung removed, voice box gone and so on. The standard these days is beyond terrible, we now find ourselves having to spend weeks getting a replacement suction machine she needs daily. When she first needed it and it broke down she had a replacement via the district nurse the next day. Now even getting a district nurse out is pretty much impossible. We are now buying essential medical equipment because trying to get it out of the NHS is takes so long and is so difficult that it is the path of least resistance!

Overall it is in a worse state than 1997. Now I'm of a certain age my social group is starting to need more and more care via the NHS and they all complain about the service but seem not to be able to understand that is entirely down to the previous 10 years of Tory control of the English NHS.

I really do despair what we are leaving behind for the younger generations.
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Old 15th December 2019, 09:41 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Now I'm of a certain age my social group is starting to need more and more care via the NHS and they all complain about the service but seem not to be able to understand that is entirely down to the previous 10 years of Tory control of the English NHS.

I really do despair what we are leaving behind for the younger generations.
I thought I was getting off lightly with "just" high blood pressure, but now it turns out I have atrial fibrillation, but at least it was discovered without having a stroke first to draw attention to it.
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Old 16th December 2019, 02:08 AM   #80
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Not to worry. We'll soon have forty new shiny hospitals plus the £352m per week as promised by BoJo.
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