Federal investigators search Giuliani apartment: reports

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry

Apparently a real lawyer got to him and told him that public statements about investigations are a bad idea when you're on the other side of the table.

Not taking Sidney Powell's calls anymore, heh?

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Your Ark? Did you swipe it from a government warehouse?

Nope, Nick's got it because he's working on it, you know, he's one of those "top men"!!

[TheGoldcountry]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Not taking Sidney Powell's calls anymore, heh?

Maybe he saw how much Matt Gaetz helped himself out with all of his media exposure.

[smartcooky]

Interesting to read former FBI agent Frank Figiuzzi's take on the warrant and what he thinks they are they are looking for.

A US magistrate or Federal Judge will have had to sign off on this warrant, so any claims about a Deep State witch hunt simply cannot be true.

Those seeking the warrant will have had to convinced the judge of the following.

1. That a crime with Federal jurisdiction has been committed.

2. The evidence of the crime is in the place or places they wish to search.

3. The information that the evidence is in those locations has to be fresh or recent, it can't be months old. They must be sure that the devices and papers they are looking for and right there in the places they want to search.

Now, because these are searches on lawyers offices and homes (there was also a warrant to search the home and premises of another another lawyer, Victoria Toensing) these applications have to go to a special unit in the DoJ. The FBI agents who serve that warrant cannot have anything to do with the investigations, because they could start seeing potential attorney-client privileged information. The warrant squad effectively serve as a "filter" so that the investigators don't see privileged information they are not entitle to see.

So, what are they looking for? The fact that both Giuliani and Toensing have seen searched might give a clue. Keep in mind that Toenseng represents Dmitri Firtash, a Ukrainian oligarch with close ties to Vladimir Putin. He's that guy that supposedly gave Giuliani his much vaunted "folder of evidence" against Hunter Biden... evidence that no-one other Giuliani has ever seen. You can read more about this very sketchy Firtash character https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...-n1121561]here

We know that Giuliani was used by Donald Trump as a back channel into Ukraine so that Trump could communicate with his people there without the civil service, the official US government channel into foreign countries, knowing what he was doing and who he was talking to.

It is suspected that Giuliani and his two Ukrainian "contacts" Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman were trying to remove a major roadblock to contacting the Ukraine government directly via the backchannel, Amb. Marie Yovanovich.

It is also strongly suspected that Parnas and Fruman were channelling foreign money into Donald Trump's campaign. That money could have been Russian, and what the FBI is looking for could be related to that.

It is also near certainty that Trump (through Giuliani, Fruman and Parnas) tried to blackmail Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelensky into opening an investigation of Hunter Biden as a means of getting dirt on Joe Biden, using arms, weapons and materiel as leverage.

Its all very, very intriguing... it all going to make one helluva spy thriller one day!

[cullennz]

Is this the same bloke both right and left America made their hero after 9/11?

Some people seem to fairly glib with their praise/hate

[The Great Zaganza]

We also know that the FBI wanted to do this a while ago, but Barr blocked it then.
If there is evidence that Guiliani destroyed evidence since then, could Barr be (at least in theory) be in trouble, too?

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by cullennz

Is this the same bloke both right and left America made their hero after 9/11?

Some people seem to fairly glib with their praise/hate

Yup, but those of us who were fairly up with American politics knew that he was an ******* then, and know that he is a stupid ******* now!

[Crossbow]

Originally Posted by cullennz

Is this the same bloke both right and left America made their hero after 9/11?

Some people seem to fairly glib with their praise/hate

Ummm, ....

9/11 was over 20 years ago and things can change, and often do change, considerably during such an extended period of time.

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by cullennz

Is this the same bloke both right and left America made their hero after 9/11?

Some people seem to fairly glib with their praise/hate

Well, that's how discerning folk whose brains can accept information and facts operate.

Unlike the kind of mind given to cult worship, where once formed, an opinion is impervious to anything contradicting it.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Quote:

Is this the same bloke both right and left America made their hero after 9/11?

Some people seem to fairly glib with their praise/hate

Yup, but those of us who were fairly up with American politics knew that he was an ******* then, and know that he is a stupid ******* now!

Remember that it wasn't just the unwashed masses that considered Giuliani a hero... he also won Time Magazine's Person of the Year award (which should go to the person who had the biggest impact, not the most popular). He won it over Osama Bin Laden (who arguably should have won the award)... with the excuse that "America's response was more important than the attacks themselves".

[Segnosaur]

Well, I guess we should all be embarrassed over the raid on Giuliani's office...

From: The Hill
Former President Trump slammed the raid by federal agents on Rudy Giuliani's apartment, saying in an interview early Thursday that it was "very unfair."

I mean if Trump said it, it must be true. After all, he also complained about the raid on Stone's house. (So what if it resulted in a conviction? He ended up pardoned so he must have been innocent.)

If you can't trust a president who was impeached twice and is subject to multiple lawsuits and criminal investigations (including an impeachment over the same subject Giuliani is being investigated for), then who can you trust?

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by Crossbow

Ummm, ....

9/11 was over 21 years ago and things can change, and often do change, considerably during such an extended period of time.

Almost 20 not over 21.

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Almost 20 not over 21.

Still, the point stands. I note that whatabout arguments from the right tend to fall flat due to the fact that the left is has absolutely no problem tossing people who do bad things to the curb. (Maybe a little too quickly in Al Franken's case, but whatever.)

Whereas the right is still lionizing Reagan and can't get rid of the Trump clan* to save their political (and one time literal) necks.



* Yes, I know starting that word with a "k" was an obvious choice, but I'm referring to his literal family.

[Crossbow]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Almost 20 not over 21.

You are quite correct.

Thanks much!

[timhau]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Remember that it wasn't just the unwashed masses that considered Giuliani a hero... he also won Time Magazine's Person of the Year award (which should go to the person who had the biggest impact, not the most popular). He won it over Osama Bin Laden (who arguably should have won the award)... with the excuse that "America's response was more important than the attacks themselves".

Yup, and any halfway competent politician would have been able to turn that into at least a serious bid for a presidential candidacy. Not Rudy, which kinda tells me that he is one of those people for whom to know him is to loathe him.

[Armitage72]

Originally Posted by Lurch

Well, that's how discerning folk whose brains can accept information and facts operate.

Unlike the kind of mind given to cult worship, where once formed, an opinion is impervious to anything contradicting it.

We saw that here with the Mueller investigation. If you approve of the investigation, you must have approved of his support for the Iraq invasion. If you opposed his support of the invasion, you must oppose the investigation. It's impossible to have two different opinions of two different things that someone did at two different times. You can only have one opinion of someone, ever.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Crossbow

Ummm, ....

9/11 was over 20 years ago and things can change, and often do change, considerably during such an extended period of time.

People change..and often for the worse.
Amazed that anybody does not know that.people change over time.
Also amused how often people who make snide remarks thinking it will make them look edgy and cool just makes them look stupid.
I was one of those who thought Giuliani was the kind of Republican we could support..a moderate fiscal concservative, but fairly liberal on social issues....but he betrayed us in pursuit of power.
From America's Mayor to Trump's Chump. he has become as evil as one of the Mafia bosses he once sent to prison.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally Posted by dudalb

People change..and often for the worse.
Amazed that anybody does not know that.people change over time..

It says something that some people think that people should never change their minds even when new facts and situations present themselves... Such people still love Trump, despite all the evidence and facts that show Trump is garbage. They believe this kind of thinking is a virtue.....

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by dudalb

People change..and often for the worse.

And scum is always scum too. I know you like the whole basic violations of our consitutional rights as long as they target the blacks like his stop and frisk policies, because it removes the whole needing an excuse to harrass the blacks.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

And scum is always scum too. I know you like the whole basic violations of our consitutional rights as long as they target the blacks like his stop and frisk policies, because it removes the whole needing an excuse to harrass the blacks.

I know you know nothing about my politics if you think that.
ANybdoy who is not as far to the left as you are is a bigot ,a racist, and a fascist. Yeah, right.

[Stacyhs]

Giuliani's son, Andrew, is claiming that all Americans should be shocked at this raid because privileged information between lawyer and client could be breached. He's as stupid as Daddy. Doesn't he know that any information will be gone through and judged as to whether it's privileged info and, if so, cannot be revealed? Does he not also realize that criminal activity between lawyer and client is not protected? Or maybe he does and that's why he's so outraged. He's also claiming that it's all "politically motivated" and the proof is that the search warrant was signed by an "Obama appointed judge" because "no other judge would sign it". When asked if he had any proof not no other judge would sign it his response was "Do you have any proof that another judge would?"

He also claimed that only Republicans are being investigated by the DOJ since Biden took office, conveniently "forgetting" that the Hunter Biden investigation started under Wm Barr is still ongoing and no one has attempted to stop it. When reminded of that, he offered as proof of corruption that HB's laptop was at his father's and it was not taken in the raid. My question is: why didn't Rudy already give that laptop to the FBI or DOJ long ago if it's so important? Or.... perhaps they already have the hard drive and what Rudy has is merely the laptop shell which is irrelevant.

Andrew also basically just called Joe Biden a liar when Biden said he had no previous knowledge of the raid.

This yahoo is considering running for governor of NY. Hasn't NY suffered enough?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Someone needs to remind Jr you can't use that privilege to cover up illegal activity. But he probably knows that and knows his audience doesn't. Did he start a GoFundMe page?

Originally Posted by Stacy

He also claimed that only Republicans are being investigated by the DOJ since Biden took office, conveniently "forgetting" that the Hunter Biden investigation started under Wm Barr is still ongoing and no one has attempted to stop it. When reminded of that, he offered as proof of corruption that HB's laptop was at his father's and it was not taken in the raid. My question is: why didn't Rudy already give that laptop to the FBI or DOJ long ago if it's so important? Or.... perhaps they already have the hard drive and what Rudy has is merely the laptop shell which is irrelevant.

He needs to be reminded there's a backlog.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

And scum is always scum too. I know you like the whole basic violations of our consitutional rights as long as they target the blacks like his stop and frisk policies, because it removes the whole needing an excuse to harrass the blacks.

Where the hell did that come from?

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Giuliani's son, Andrew, is claiming that all Americans should be shocked at this raid because privileged information between lawyer and client could be breached. He's as stupid as Daddy. Doesn't he know that any information will be gone through and judged as to whether it's privileged info and, if so, cannot be revealed? Does he not also realize that criminal activity between lawyer and client is not protected?

Well, for him to know that sort of thing, he'd probably have to talk to someone with knowledge of the law. And where exactly do you think Giuliani will actually find someone with such expert knowledge?

[The Great Zaganza]

The cry of "if they can do it to X, they can do it to everybody" that the GOP is so fond of is incredibly revealing: it shows that they are fundamentally opposed to the idea of equality before the law regardless of wealth or power.
The Party of Privilege indeed.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Well, for him to know that sort of thing, he'd probably have to talk to someone with knowledge of the law. And where exactly do you think Giuliani will actually find someone with such expert knowledge?

I looked up Andrew G. Apparently, his greatest 'skill' is playing golf. He's a decent player having won a tournament or two and his main reason for being hired to work at the Trump WH was really to play golf with Cheeto Benito under the guise of different "advisor" titles at a salary of just under $100K.

[smartcooky]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/29/n...t-ukraine.html

Firing of U.S. Ambassador Is at Center of Giuliani Investigation

Prosecutors want to scrutinize Rudolph W. Giuliani’s communications with Ukrainian officials about the ouster of the ambassador, Marie L. Yovanovitch.

In particular, the federal authorities were expected to scour the electronic devices for communications between Mr. Giuliani and Trump administration officials about the ambassador before she was recalled in April 2019.....

The warrant also sought his communications with Ukrainian officials who had butted heads with Ms. Yovanovitch, including some of the same people who at the time were helping Mr. Giuliani seek damaging information about President Biden, who was then a candidate, and his family......

[Captain_Swoop]

Rudy Giuliani told Tucker Carlson that he offered FBI agents Hunter Biden's hard drives while they raided his residence, but they wouldn't take them.
Although he does say they could have been Donalds drivers or even Putins!

Video in link.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1387923750201475076

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Rudy Giuliani told Tucker Carlson that he offered FBI agents Hunter Biden's hard drives while they raided his residence, but they wouldn't take them.
Although he does say they could have been Donalds drivers or even Putins!

Video in link.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1387923750201475076

Not exactly. He claimed that they refused to take hard drives that contained copies of Hunter Biden’s laptop hard drives. But remember that, also, according to Giuliani, the FBI already has the original hard drives of Hunter's laptops so why would they need his copies?

Quote:

Rudy Giuliani turns over alleged Hunter Biden laptop to authorities in Delaware

Giuliani also lied when he claimed a search warrant is only issued when it's believed the evidence is in imminent danger of being destroyed. As a lawyer, he knows that is untrue so he flat out lied.

Quote:

A search warrant must be based upon probable cause and the applicant must present a sworn affidavit to a neutral and detached magistrate or judge. Within this affidavit, there must be facts sufficient to persuade that judge that a crime was committed and that searching in the locations specified within the search warrant will reveal evidence of the crime, or crimes. The locations to be searched must be described with particularity, as well as the items that will be seized from those locations.

The quote above is taken from this article which also gives an excellent explanation of how the information taken in the raid is filtered to protect actual client-lawyer privileged information from that which is not.

Michael Cohen is right: Rudy Giuliani is an idiot. He doesn't know when to shut up. Trump will throw him under the bus and we can expect Rudy to return the favor. They are cut from the same cloth and it's rotten.

I see Tucker has his usual "shocked and concerned" look on his face. It's there so often now days that, as our mothers told us when we were kids, if he's not careful, it's going to stay that way permanently.

[Captain_Swoop]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Not exactly. He claimed that they refused to take hard drives that contained copies of Hunter Biden’s laptop hard drives. But remember that, also, according to Giuliani, the FBI already has the original hard drives of Hunter's laptops so why would they need his copies?

"I said don't you want these? and they said what are they? and I said, those are Hunter Biden's Hard Drives"

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

"I said don't you want these? and they said what are they? and I said, those are Hunter Biden's Hard Drives"

His story is completely nonsensical. As if they wouldn't take them to begin with, not knowing what they are.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

"I said don't you want these? and they said what are they? and I said, those are Hunter Biden's Hard Drives"

But they aren't. They are copies that he made because that wasn't Hunter's laptop. Notice he said "hard drives".

The original HB laptop from the computer shop:

Quote:

The FBI seized the laptop and a hard drive through a grand jury subpoena.

Quote:

“Before turning over the gear, the shop owner says, he made a copy of the hard drive and later gave it to former Mayor Rudy Giuliani’s lawyer, Robert Costello,” the Post said. “Steve Bannon, former adviser to President Trump, told The Post about the existence of the hard drive in late September and Giuliani provided The Post with a copy of it on Sunday.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...reign-n1243620

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Belz...

His story is completely nonsensical. As if they wouldn't take them to begin with, not knowing what they are.

Exactly. He's lying.

[Dr. Keith]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Exactly. He's lying.

Just in case he's not, I'm labeling some hard drives in my locked desk drawer as "Hunter Biden - For FBI Only."

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Belz...

His story is completely nonsensical. As if they wouldn't take them to begin with, not knowing what they are.

Its even more serious that that.

This was a warrant to search the office and apartment of a lawyer. Its hard to get a judge to sign off on such a warrant, let alone one for a prominent lawyer.

This is not "Law and Order" or "The FBI" or some other the police procedural TV show. SDNY will have been very specific about exactly what it is they are searching for, they will have a had to list every one of those items, and convinced a judge that a crime has indeed been committed. Quite simply, those executing the search warrant are not going to take something that was not on the list. They would only have had Giuliani's word they were Hunter Biden's HDDs - what if it turned out they were not Hunter's? What is they belonged to another, unrelated client, and they contained attorney-client privileged material? That fact could compromise the warrant, and cause a judge to invalidate the warrant and if that happened, search would become illegal, and the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine would apply to everything they found.

IMO, offering the warrant squad "Hunter Biden's HDDs" might well have been a clever attempted ploy by Giuliani. He was the head of SDNY for years and he knows exactly what the restrictions would be on such a warrant, and new knew exactly what he was doing. This was an attempt to sandbag the FBI and sow the seeds for a later challenge to the legality of the warrant.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think it's safe to say the Hunter laptop the investigators didn't take is a bunch of crap. A red herring at most and a complete fabrication at worst.

Biden is under investigation for his tax filings. I doubt they are looking for the child porn that is supposed to be on Hunter's gazillion laptops all over the place.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I can't help but think Giuliani's apartment must smell horrible, all musty and mildewy.

"Smells like soup. Small hands." - Juno Powers

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I think it's safe to say the Hunter laptop the investigators didn't take is a bunch of crap. A red herring at most and a complete fabrication at worst.

Biden is under investigation for his tax filings. I doubt they are looking for the child porn that is supposed to be on Hunter's gazillion laptops all over the place.

It wasn't even Hunter's laptop. It was just copies of Hunter's hard drives that Giuliani had another another computer. The FBI already has Hunter's laptop. Anyone who believes anything coming out of Rudy's mouth after all the nonsense he's spewed the last few years just reveals how gullible they are.

[dirtywick]

He didn’t offer the FBI any hard drives. He was just talking stupid because he was on Fox.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by dirtywick

He didn’t offer the FBI any hard drives. He was just talking stupid because he was on Fox.

You don't know that. But I agree he was still talking stupid. Rudy is always talking stupid.