The Jan 6 Investigation (2) - Page 10

TragicMonkey · 15th July 2022, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by eerok

That's nice. With any luck we'll see Trump and his cronies prosecuted in court soon.

That's not what the January 6 hearings are, though. They're part of an investigation that should lead to indictments.

And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.

JoeMorgue · 15th July 2022, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.

Yep.

gnome · 15th July 2022, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Not that this will matter to Trump loyalists who are gullible enough to swallow the Big Lie:

Having trouble with the link today.

Segnosaur · 15th July 2022, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Quote:

That's nice. With any luck we'll see Trump and his cronies prosecuted in court soon.

That's not what the January 6 hearings are, though. They're part of an investigation that should lead to indictments.

And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.

I could be wrong, but aren't the charges he is facing in Georgia state-level charges (and thus outside the ability of a future president to pardon?

As for federal charges:

- It is possible that he won't be pardoned by a future republican president, depending on who it is/whatever animosity exists between them and Stubby McBonespurs

- A conviction would at least be a significant embarrassment, and any future republican would have to justify whey they granted a pardon

JoeMorgue · 15th July 2022, 07:01 AM

When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything?

Lurch · 15th July 2022, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything?

Beat me to it. The GQP is where embarrassment, shame and irony go to die. Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.

Segnosaur · 15th July 2022, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything?

Ok, maybe 'embarrassed' is the wrong word.

But they would have to justify to voters why they granted Stubby McBonespurs a pardon (which might cause problems with moderate voters.)

Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)? I am sure a decade from now pretty much every republican will claim they were a "never Trumper".

JoeMorgue · 15th July 2022, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)?

Literally zero in any way that actually matters, just a bunch of Susan Collinses.

Again, and I'm trying to just completely snarky I get the appeal of this and I mean that sincerely and with zero snark, but this whole "Give them rope / let the show their true colors" thing just is not ever going to actually work.

We have to stop them, not passively hope they do it to themselves.

Donal · 15th July 2022, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.

That is a strong possibility, but not a guarantee. Trump will always have his militant base that can't be disregarded easily. And the GQP will always have people who will vote for whoever has the R next to their name, but both of those groups are shrinking and we're seeing real conflict between them.

Plus, the circus performers they are running in some major races look to be turning people off. And not just in those races. People overall seem to be tired of the Republican nonsense. The next Republican administration may want to avoid picking up any of Trump's stink.

And there is actually some fire in a few Dem candidates. I don't think Beto will beat Abbott, but he can help keep and maybe even flip a couple of Texas seats in HoR.

Fetterman and Shapiro seem to be doing well in Pennsylvania. Ron Johnson is underwater in Wisconsin. JD Vance is trying to give Democrats every chance to steamroll him in Ohio. I just wish they had someone better than Tim Ryan.

Sooo, I don't know. The republicans seem hellbent on shooting themselves in the foot. But the Democrats have never willingly missed a chance to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Stacyhs · 15th July 2022, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.

Then that will be on the Republicans but at least a conviction will show that a POTUS is not above the law. If he gets pardoned by some future GOP POTUS, so be it, but at least Trump will have been held accountable for his crimes and go down in history for it.

Skeptic Ginger · 15th July 2022, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

A prime example of Just Asking Questions, otherwise known as JAQing off.

And not giving a **** about the answers.

Does Iamafalser expect us to be awed by these challenges to our conclusions? Is he posting for lurkers? Is he just reaffirming his own beliefs?

Because he's definitely not interested in any challenges to his own beliefs.

Skeptic Ginger · 15th July 2022, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yep.

Debbie Downers me thinks.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Literally zero in any way that actually matters, just a bunch of Susan Collinses.

Again, and I'm trying to just completely snarky I get the appeal of this and I mean that sincerely and with zero snark, but this whole "Give them rope / let the show their true colors" thing just is not ever going to actually work.

We have to stop them, not passively hope they do it to themselves.

Yes we do and that starts with conviction that at least trying matters.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Ok, maybe 'embarrassed' is the wrong word.

But they would have to justify to voters why they granted Stubby McBonespurs a pardon (which might cause problems with moderate voters.)

Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)? I am sure a decade from now pretty much every republican will claim they were a "never Trumper".

After Ford pardoned Nixon some of my friends looked into emigrating. Not sure if they ever did.

Donal · 15th July 2022, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Then that will be on the Republicans but at least a conviction will show that a POTUS is not above the law. If he gets pardoned by some future GOP POTUS, so be it, but at least Trump will have been held accountable for his crimes and go down in history for it.

I'm more than happy to bag on Democratic leadership for performative nonsense like reading poems about Ukraine or singing God Bless America when Roe v Wade was struck down, but this is one of those times they need to swing big, even if they come up short.

Make the Republicans fight this. Drag them publicly for doing it. The hearings are having a negative effect on them. Stop worrying they will always do the worst thing and just assume they will. It frees you to do what you know is right.

Stacyhs · 15th July 2022, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

I'm more than happy to bag on Democratic leadership for performative nonsense like reading poems about Ukraine or singing God Bless America when Roe v Wade was struck down, but this is one of those times they need to swing big, even if they come up short.

Make the Republicans fight this. Drag them publicly for doing it. The hearings are having a negative effect on them. Stop worrying they will always do the worst thing and just assume they will. It frees you to do what you know is right.

Agreed. To never hold Trump to account because he may be pardoned later is a non-sensical argument. If we use that rationale, Stone, Manafort, and Flynn should never have been charged and tried because we knew there was a good chance that Trump would pardon them.

JoeMorgue · 15th July 2022, 12:52 PM

Again because the Republican trolls are all members of cult they think everyone else to and that WE have the same blindspot slavish devotion to our leaders they do.

Beelzebuddy · 15th July 2022, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Agreed. To never hold Trump to account because he may be pardoned later is a non-sensical argument. If we use that rationale, Stone, Manafort, and Flynn should never have been charged and tried because we knew there was a good chance that Trump would pardon them.

Nonsensical it may be but Mueller subscribed to exactly that notion, which is why his report turned out to be such a dud. He wouldn't touch anything that would directly implicate Trump, which was everything because Trump is just that much of a crook. So he poked some Russians and took down everyone's clearly and obviously perjured statements and twiddled his thumbs waiting for a congress more willing to do his job for him that never arrived.

mikegriffith1 · 15th July 2022, 01:30 PM

Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020

dudalb · 15th July 2022, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020

God,you still don't get that citing Right Wing Hacks like Solomon as your source gets you nowhere here?
And is Solomon still carryinf Putin;s water on the Ukraine.
And The Big Lie is still The BIg Lie.,
I will make it short and sweet: Do you believe that the 2020 election was stolen or not?
And I see you seem to have forgotten your "I am through with Trump" statement. Not that many here ever really bought into it.

johnny karate · 15th July 2022, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020

I'll check this out right after I read "21 Things that Totally Prove Bigfoot is Real" written by some guy who believes that Bigfoot is real.

smartcooky · 15th July 2022, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.

That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that.

JoeMorgue · 15th July 2022, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that.

Until SCOTUS says the 14th Amendment doesn't say that, which they will.

smartcooky · 15th July 2022, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

And not giving a **** about the answers.

Does Iamafalser expect us to be awed by these challenges to our conclusions? Is he posting for lurkers? Is he just reaffirming his own beliefs?

Because he's definitely not interested in any challenges to his own beliefs.

Of course, its possible for two different things to both be true!

smartcooky · 15th July 2022, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Until SCOTUS says the 14th Amendment doesn't say that, which they will.

It will take years before it gets to that, and by that time, Trump will likely have have snuffed it (or someone will have helped him to it).

smartcooky · 15th July 2022, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

Just the News, run by ~~veteran~~ partisan right wing hack who laughably calls himself a journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020

FTFY

Oh, and I bothered to read the article. Its all irrelevant and/or unsubstantiated and/or misleading lies and disinformation.

Paul2 · 15th July 2022, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

FTFY

Oh, and I bothered to read the article. Its all irrelevant and/or unsubstantiated and/or misleading lies and disinformation.

Thank you for your service to our skepticism. I started the article and couldn't finish given the irrelevances, the innuendo, etc.

Skeptic Ginger · 15th July 2022, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020

I think people in this thread are familiar with Solomon's work.

Skeptic Ginger · 15th July 2022, 03:10 PM

Was this posted already? It's from yesterday but I only saw it today.

Conservative group finds ‘absolutely no evidence of widespread fraud’ in 2020 election

Quote:

Eight prominent conservatives released a 72-page report Thursday refuting claims of election fraud in the 2020 presidential election in dozens of unsuccessful court cases brought forth by former President Trump and his allies.

The group — which includes former federal judges, Republican senators and Republican-appointed officials — said they reviewed all 64 court cases Trump and his allies initiated challenging the election outcome, saying they had reached an “unequivocal” conclusion that the claims were unsupported by evidence.

“We conclude that Donald Trump and his supporters had their day in court and failed to produce substantive evidence to make their case,” the group wrote. ...

The group consists of former Sen. John Danforth (R-Mo.); longtime Republican lawyer Benjamin Ginsberg; former federal Judge Thomas Griffith; David Hoppe, chief of staff to former House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.); former federal judge J. Michael Luttig; former federal judge Michael McConnell; Theodore Olson, solicitor general under former President George W. Bush; and former Sen. Gordon Smith (R-Ore.).

“We urge our fellow conservatives to cease obsessing over the results of the 2020 election, and to focus instead on presenting candidates and ideas that offer a positive vision for overcoming our current difficulties and bringing greater peace, prosperity and liberty to our nation,” the group wrote.

welshdean · 15th July 2022, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Paul2

Thank you for your service to our skepticism. I started the article and couldn't finish given the irrelevances, the innuendo, etc.

Yeah, I managed to get to point 3.
What a complete and utter waste of time, it's a load of cobblers!

Aridas · 15th July 2022, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Was this posted already? It's from yesterday but I only saw it today.

Stacyhs got it. Post 357.

Stacyhs · 15th July 2022, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link:

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020

Just the News MediaBias/Fact Check: "Extreme Right Bias"

Quote:

Overall, we rate Just the News Questionable and Right Biased based on story selection that mostly favors a conservative perspective. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to numerous failed fact checks and the promotion of conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-news/

Stacyhs · 15th July 2022, 04:20 PM

BE afraid, Donald. Be very afraid:

Quote:

The Atlanta-area district attorney investigating Donald Trump and his allies’ efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia sent a target letter to state Republican party Chair David Shafer, warning him that he may be indicted as part of her investigation, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

Shafer, who has faced inquiries from federal investigators, Georgia prosecutors and the House select committee investigating the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol, acted as a pro-Trump elector in Georgia. He also helped organize the fake slate of electors in the Peach State, which Trump lost by nearly 12,000 votes.

The letter was first reported by Yahoo News, which also reported other Georgia officials received similar target letters.

https://abc17news.com/politics/natio...lection-probe/

acbytesla · 15th July 2022, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

BE afraid, Donald. Be very afraid:

https://abc17news.com/politics/natio...lection-probe/

It seems to me if you had anything to do with the fake elector scheme, you are guilty of conspiracy to defraud the respective state.

Stacyhs · 15th July 2022, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It seems to me if you had anything to do with the fake elector scheme, you are guilty of conspiracy to defraud the respective state.

stanfr · 15th July 2022, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by welshdean

Yeah, I managed to get to point 3.
What a complete and utter waste of time, it's a load of cobblers!

But...HUNTER BIDEN!! and...his laptop....and did you forget HUNTER BIDEN??

dudalb · 15th July 2022, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that.

I don't think you will see any prosecutions for sedition, it is a very hard charge to prove an juries are usually reluctant to convict.
And there are plenty of other things they can charge Trumpy with.

dudalb · 15th July 2022, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Lurch

And while he waits, the master baits. 😀

The polapsed orange anus will announce its candidacy, and then the DOJ will not/can not indict because it will be perceived as 'political.'

The US is fracked.

Which seem to give you great pleasure.

Stacyhs · 15th July 2022, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by stanfr

But...HUNTER BIDEN!! and...his laptop....and did you forget HUNTER BIDEN??

BENGHAZI!!!!!

acbytesla · 15th July 2022, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

BENGHAZI!!!!!

E-mails!

gnome · 16th July 2022, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

E-mails!

Vince Foster!

Stacyhs · 16th July 2022, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

Vince Foster!

I'll see your Vince Foster and raise you one Comet Ping Pong.

15th July 2022, 06:25 AM	#361
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 64,873	Originally Posted by eerok That's nice. With any luck we'll see Trump and his cronies prosecuted in court soon. That's not what the January 6 hearings are, though. They're part of an investigation that should lead to indictments. And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

15th July 2022, 06:40 AM	#363
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,505	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Not that this will matter to Trump loyalists who are gullible enough to swallow the Big Lie: Having trouble with the link today.
	__________________

15th July 2022, 06:59 AM	#364
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,525	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Quote: That's nice. With any luck we'll see Trump and his cronies prosecuted in court soon. That's not what the January 6 hearings are, though. They're part of an investigation that should lead to indictments. And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway. I could be wrong, but aren't the charges he is facing in Georgia state-level charges (and thus outside the ability of a future president to pardon? As for federal charges: - It is possible that he won't be pardoned by a future republican president, depending on who it is/whatever animosity exists between them and Stubby McBonespurs - A conviction would at least be a significant embarrassment, and any future republican would have to justify whey they granted a pardon
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

15th July 2022, 10:08 AM	#367
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,525	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything? Ok, maybe 'embarrassed' is the wrong word. But they would have to justify to voters why they granted Stubby McBonespurs a pardon (which might cause problems with moderate voters.) Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)? I am sure a decade from now pretty much every republican will claim they were a "never Trumper".
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

15th July 2022, 11:28 AM	#369
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,230	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway. That is a strong possibility, but not a guarantee. Trump will always have his militant base that can't be disregarded easily. And the GQP will always have people who will vote for whoever has the R next to their name, but both of those groups are shrinking and we're seeing real conflict between them. Plus, the circus performers they are running in some major races look to be turning people off. And not just in those races. People overall seem to be tired of the Republican nonsense. The next Republican administration may want to avoid picking up any of Trump's stink. And there is actually some fire in a few Dem candidates. I don't think Beto will beat Abbott, but he can help keep and maybe even flip a couple of Texas seats in HoR. Fetterman and Shapiro seem to be doing well in Pennsylvania. Ron Johnson is underwater in Wisconsin. JD Vance is trying to give Democrats every chance to steamroll him in Ohio. I just wish they had someone better than Tim Ryan. Sooo, I don't know. The republicans seem hellbent on shooting themselves in the foot. But the Democrats have never willingly missed a chance to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,230	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

15th July 2022, 06:26 AM	#362
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway. Yep.

15th July 2022, 07:01 AM	#365
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything?

15th July 2022, 09:34 AM	#366
Lurch Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 2,318	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue When was the last time a Republican got "embarrassed" about goddamn anything? Beat me to it. The GQP is where embarrassment, shame and irony go to die. Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.

15th July 2022, 10:11 AM	#368
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)? Literally zero in any way that actually matters, just a bunch of Susan Collinses. Again, and I'm trying to just completely snarky I get the appeal of this and I mean that sincerely and with zero snark, but this whole "Give them rope / let the show their true colors" thing just is not ever going to actually work. We have to stop them, not passively hope they do it to themselves.

15th July 2022, 11:45 AM	#370
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,669	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway. Then that will be on the Republicans but at least a conviction will show that a POTUS is not above the law. If he gets pardoned by some future GOP POTUS, so be it, but at least Trump will have been held accountable for his crimes and go down in history for it.

15th July 2022, 11:54 AM	#371
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,022	Originally Posted by varwoche A prime example of Just Asking Questions, otherwise known as JAQing off. And not giving a **** about the answers. Does Iamafalser expect us to be awed by these challenges to our conclusions? Is he posting for lurkers? Is he just reaffirming his own beliefs? Because he's definitely not interested in any challenges to his own beliefs.

15th July 2022, 12:03 PM	#372
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,022	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway. Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Yep. Debbie Downers me thinks. Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Literally zero in any way that actually matters, just a bunch of Susan Collinses. Again, and I'm trying to just completely snarky I get the appeal of this and I mean that sincerely and with zero snark, but this whole "Give them rope / let the show their true colors" thing just is not ever going to actually work. We have to stop them, not passively hope they do it to themselves. Yes we do and that starts with conviction that at least trying matters. Originally Posted by Segnosaur Ok, maybe 'embarrassed' is the wrong word. But they would have to justify to voters why they granted Stubby McBonespurs a pardon (which might cause problems with moderate voters.) Plus, how many republicans have 'turned' on Trump once they left office (or left the Trump administration)? I am sure a decade from now pretty much every republican will claim they were a "never Trumper". After Ford pardoned Nixon some of my friends looked into emigrating. Not sure if they ever did.

15th July 2022, 12:42 PM	#373
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,230	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Then that will be on the Republicans but at least a conviction will show that a POTUS is not above the law. If he gets pardoned by some future GOP POTUS, so be it, but at least Trump will have been held accountable for his crimes and go down in history for it. I'm more than happy to bag on Democratic leadership for performative nonsense like reading poems about Ukraine or singing God Bless America when Roe v Wade was struck down, but this is one of those times they need to swing big, even if they come up short. Make the Republicans fight this. Drag them publicly for doing it. The hearings are having a negative effect on them. Stop worrying they will always do the worst thing and just assume they will. It frees you to do what you know is right.
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,230	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

15th July 2022, 12:47 PM	#374
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,669	Originally Posted by Donal I'm more than happy to bag on Democratic leadership for performative nonsense like reading poems about Ukraine or singing God Bless America when Roe v Wade was struck down, but this is one of those times they need to swing big, even if they come up short. Make the Republicans fight this. Drag them publicly for doing it. The hearings are having a negative effect on them. Stop worrying they will always do the worst thing and just assume they will. It frees you to do what you know is right. Agreed. To never hold Trump to account because he may be pardoned later is a non-sensical argument. If we use that rationale, Stone, Manafort, and Flynn should never have been charged and tried because we knew there was a good chance that Trump would pardon them.

15th July 2022, 12:52 PM	#375
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Again because the Republican trolls are all members of cult they think everyone else to and that WE have the same blindspot slavish devotion to our leaders they do.

15th July 2022, 01:19 PM	#376
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 9,286	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Agreed. To never hold Trump to account because he may be pardoned later is a non-sensical argument. If we use that rationale, Stone, Manafort, and Flynn should never have been charged and tried because we knew there was a good chance that Trump would pardon them. Nonsensical it may be but Mueller subscribed to exactly that notion, which is why his report turned out to be such a dud. He wouldn't touch anything that would directly implicate Trump, which was everything because Trump is just that much of a crook. So he poked some Russians and took down everyone's clearly and obviously perjured statements and twiddled his thumbs waiting for a congress more willing to do his job for him that never arrived.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 9,286

15th July 2022, 01:30 PM	#377
mikegriffith1 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 491	Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link: https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020
	__________________ Mike Griffith Home Page

15th July 2022, 01:36 PM	#378
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,259	Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link: https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020 God,you still don't get that citing Right Wing Hacks like Solomon as your source gets you nowhere here? And is Solomon still carryinf Putin;s water on the Ukraine. And The Big Lie is still The BIg Lie., I will make it short and sweet: Do you believe that the 2020 election was stolen or not? And I see you seem to have forgotten your "I am through with Trump" statement. Not that many here ever really bought into it.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. Last edited by dudalb; 15th July 2022 at 01:38 PM.

15th July 2022, 01:39 PM	#379
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15,919	Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link: https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020 I'll check this out right after I read "21 Things that Totally Prove Bigfoot is Real" written by some guy who believes that Bigfoot is real.

15th July 2022, 01:55 PM	#380
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 22,889	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey And what then? The next Republican president will pardon Trump and all his flunkeys anyway. That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3: No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that.
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

15th July 2022, 01:56 PM	#381
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Originally Posted by smartcooky That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3: No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that. Until SCOTUS says the 14th Amendment doesn't say that, which they will.

15th July 2022, 01:58 PM	#382
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 22,889	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger And not giving a **** about the answers. Does Iamafalser expect us to be awed by these challenges to our conclusions? Is he posting for lurkers? Is he just reaffirming his own beliefs? Because he's definitely not interested in any challenges to his own beliefs. Of course, its possible for two different things to both be true!
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

15th July 2022, 02:00 PM	#383
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 22,889	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Until SCOTUS says the 14th Amendment doesn't say that, which they will. It will take years before it gets to that, and by that time, Trump will likely have have snuffed it (or someone will have helped him to it).
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass.

15th July 2022, 02:03 PM	#384
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 22,889	Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 Just the News, run by ~~veteran~~ partisan right wing hack who laughably calls himself a journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link: https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020 FTFY Oh, and I bothered to read the article. Its all irrelevant and/or unsubstantiated and/or misleading lies and disinformation.
	__________________ What is Woke? It is a term that means "awakened to the needs of others". It means to be well-informed, thoughtful, compassionate, humble and kind. Woke people are keen to make the world a better, fairer place for everyone, But, unfortunately, it has also become a pejorative used by racists, homophobes and misogynists on the political right, to describe people who possess a fully functional moral compass. Last edited by smartcooky; 15th July 2022 at 02:17 PM.

15th July 2022, 02:45 PM	#385
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,685	Originally Posted by smartcooky FTFY Oh, and I bothered to read the article. Its all irrelevant and/or unsubstantiated and/or misleading lies and disinformation. Thank you for your service to our skepticism. I started the article and couldn't finish given the irrelevances, the innuendo, etc.
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,685	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

15th July 2022, 03:01 PM	#386
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,022	Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link: https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020 I think people in this thread are familiar with Solomon's work.

15th July 2022, 03:10 PM	#387
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 93,022	Was this posted already? It's from yesterday but I only saw it today. Conservative group finds ‘absolutely no evidence of widespread fraud’ in 2020 election Quote: Eight prominent conservatives released a 72-page report Thursday refuting claims of election fraud in the 2020 presidential election in dozens of unsuccessful court cases brought forth by former President Trump and his allies. The group — which includes former federal judges, Republican senators and Republican-appointed officials — said they reviewed all 64 court cases Trump and his allies initiated challenging the election outcome, saying they had reached an “unequivocal” conclusion that the claims were unsupported by evidence. “We conclude that Donald Trump and his supporters had their day in court and failed to produce substantive evidence to make their case,” the group wrote. ... The group consists of former Sen. John Danforth (R-Mo.); longtime Republican lawyer Benjamin Ginsberg; former federal Judge Thomas Griffith; David Hoppe, chief of staff to former House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.); former federal judge J. Michael Luttig; former federal judge Michael McConnell; Theodore Olson, solicitor general under former President George W. Bush; and former Sen. Gordon Smith (R-Ore.). “We urge our fellow conservatives to cease obsessing over the results of the 2020 election, and to focus instead on presenting candidates and ideas that offer a positive vision for overcoming our current difficulties and bringing greater peace, prosperity and liberty to our nation,” the group wrote.

15th July 2022, 03:24 PM	#388
welshdean Michael McDonald 1967 - 2021 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,282	Originally Posted by Paul2 Thank you for your service to our skepticism. I started the article and couldn't finish given the irrelevances, the innuendo, etc. Yeah, I managed to get to point 3. What a complete and utter waste of time, it's a load of cobblers!
	__________________ "In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." Carl Sagan 1934 - 1996 RIP

15th July 2022, 03:43 PM	#389
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 9,634	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Was this posted already? It's from yesterday but I only saw it today. Stacyhs got it. Post 357.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 15th July 2022 at 04:17 PM.

15th July 2022, 04:05 PM	#390
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,669	Originally Posted by mikegriffith1 Just the News, run by veteran journalist John Solomon, is carrying an informative article relating to the January 6 investigation. It's titled "Bombshells Undercut the 'Big Lie': 21 Confirmed Illegalities, Irregularities from 2020 Election." Here's the link: https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...ularities-2020 Just the News MediaBias/Fact Check: "Extreme Right Bias" Quote: Overall, we rate Just the News Questionable and Right Biased based on story selection that mostly favors a conservative perspective. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to numerous failed fact checks and the promotion of conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/just-the-news/

15th July 2022, 04:20 PM	#391
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,669	BE afraid, Donald. Be very afraid: Quote: The Atlanta-area district attorney investigating Donald Trump and his allies’ efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia sent a target letter to state Republican party Chair David Shafer, warning him that he may be indicted as part of her investigation, according to two sources familiar with the matter. Shafer, who has faced inquiries from federal investigators, Georgia prosecutors and the House select committee investigating the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol, acted as a pro-Trump elector in Georgia. He also helped organize the fake slate of electors in the Peach State, which Trump lost by nearly 12,000 votes. The letter was first reported by Yahoo News, which also reported other Georgia officials received similar target letters. https://abc17news.com/politics/natio...lection-probe/

15th July 2022, 05:42 PM	#392
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,383	Originally Posted by Stacyhs BE afraid, Donald. Be very afraid: https://abc17news.com/politics/natio...lection-probe/ It seems to me if you had anything to do with the fake elector scheme, you are guilty of conspiracy to defraud the respective state.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

15th July 2022, 05:47 PM	#393
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,669	Originally Posted by acbytesla It seems to me if you had anything to do with the fake elector scheme, you are guilty of conspiracy to defraud the respective state.

15th July 2022, 05:50 PM	#394
stanfr Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,259	Originally Posted by welshdean Yeah, I managed to get to point 3. What a complete and utter waste of time, it's a load of cobblers! But...HUNTER BIDEN!! and...his laptop....and did you forget HUNTER BIDEN??
stanfr Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,259

15th July 2022, 06:04 PM	#395
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,259	Originally Posted by smartcooky That may be so, but if any of them get convictions for sedition, a pardon won't help them get past Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3: No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability. They will be barred from ever holding office again, and it requires at least a 2/3 majority on both the House and the Senate to overturn that. I don't think you will see any prosecutions for sedition, it is a very hard charge to prove an juries are usually reluctant to convict. And there are plenty of other things they can charge Trumpy with.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.