The Jan 6 Investigation (2)

[The Great Zaganza]

Abrams never claimed that she was the legitimate governor, or that the election would get overturned. And she certainly never called election officials and told them to fake the results in her favor.

Comparing Abrams with Trump is, at best, self-delusion, but usually a poor attempt at whatsaboutism.

Re: Delaware. What a load of BS: Biden was senator, not governor, so he has no power over the election there.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Joecool

I'm so sorry, I didn't realize you had heard all of the evidence.

Even if Trump tried to subvert the votes in Georgia, how does that prove that he incited the riot on January 6th?

Do you know who Stacy Abrams is? What do you think of her actions? (I doubt you will respond?)

The democrats whined and cried voter suppression and then record votes were cast in 2020. I never claimed that fraud changed the outcome of the 2020 election. Joe Biden said Geogia was Jim Crowe 2.0 but his own state of Delaware has more voting restrictions than Georgia. And what did Joe Biden do about it? Nothing.

You doubt I will respond? Why?

Voter suppression was an issue in 2020. With Drumpf and his cult pushing the Big Lie, the minority, i.e. the GOP, is working harder to suppress even more votes. They can't win legitimately so voter suppression is all they have.

I hope their efforts are thwarted again.

Yes I know who Abrams is. What actions are you referring to and what's your point?

I'm not the one claiming there is no evidence Drumpf incited the riot. I have heard enough evidence to conclude he was directly involved. Do you think the next two hearings are going to refute that?

[Susheel]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

You doubt I will respond? Why?

What he means is
that he doubts you will respond in a way that validates his own fantasy.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Over a year and still no smoking gun that Trump incited the riot. The riot was wrong but it's being overblown compared to the riots that took place after George Floyd, including the summer of love in Seattle.

None is so blind as he who refuses to see. You wouldn't concede the riot was the direct result of Trump's Big Lie and his speech on the Ellipse if he had led the rioters up to and into the Capitol on a white horse waving a flag that said "Stop the Steal".

Quote:

The committee will never subpoena the secret service agents that were in the car with Trump because they want to take Hutchinson's word at face value.

Robert Engel has already testified before the J6C. He was not asked about the steering wheel incident because Hutchinson had not testified yet and the J6C did not know about it then. The J6C can still demand he return to be asked specifically about it. For all you know, it could be in the works already.

Quote:

The committee also heard testimony from at least a few people who were with Trump, including a DOD staffer named Kash Patel who testified that Trump authorized up to 20,000 troops from the national guard to prevent any problems. and this was before January 6th. The committee of course never aired this testimony.

This has been discredited before. It never happened. And not the 10K troops reported in the first version of this lie, either.

Quote:

There is no evidence that Trump made a request for 10,000 National Guard troops to be deployed for a rally he held that preceded the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

Quote:

A Defense Department spokesman said the department "has no record of such an order being given" by Trump.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...troops-jan-6-/

Quote:

Nor did the committee show the written letter from the DC mayor declining the troops offered by Trump.

Perhaps because no such letter exists as Trump never offered any troops?

Quote:

What the mayor did, was ask for the minimal number of National Guardsmen and women to help out the Metropolitan Police Department, and she warned that those troops should be unarmed and not directly involve themselves in any protests.

Quote:

Mayor Muriel Bowser sent a letter on New Year's Eve to Maj. Gen. William Walker, commanding general of the District of Columbia National Guard, requesting support on January 5 through 6. She said Guard personnel would support the MPD and the District Fire and Emergency Medical Services. "[N]o DCNG personnel shall be armed during this mission, and at no time, will DCNG personnel or assets be engaged in domestic surveillance, searches, or seizures of [U.S.] persons," she wrote.

https://www.newsweek.com/dc-mayor-mu...narmed-1661320

Quote:

Nor did the committee interview Pelosi or the DC Mayor who were declared off limits by the committee.

Evidence they were "declared off limits by the committee"?

Quote:

Liz "toast" Cheney also mentioned that there was intel of possible violence prior to January 6th but the committee never interviewed the security personnel and those in charge of them.

The bi-partisan Senate investigation already did that:

Quote:

EXAMINING THE U.S. CAPITOL ATTACK: A REVIEW OF THE SECURITY,
PLANNING, AND RESPONSE FAILURES ON JANUARY 6

You really need to get off the right-wing echo chamber sites that are feeding you this nonsense.

[Aridas]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Yes I know who Abrams is. What actions are you referring to and what's your point?

To poke at this... Short version - the GOP is and has been pushing a false equivalence between Abrams and Trump (and trying to make Abrams look worse, of course, farcical as that may be).

For example, both have spoken of rigged systems. To cite an example from Abrams -

Quote:

Abrams said Kemp “won under the rules of the game at the time, but the game was rigged against the voters of Georgia.”

Frankly, given the state of things, that's objectively not unfair to say. Going further and poking at just one of so very, very many things that can be poked at, any time a person is directly in power over elections while they attempt to get elected, like Kemp was, that's a major conflict of interest. Given a lot of the shenanigans, there's real cause for concern there, whether or not they were sufficient to switch the victor. Trump, of course, is pretty clearly on the side of trying to make elections MORE rigged.


Both have refused to concede. The similarities go little further there, though, too. To borrow from Abrams' justification for that -

Quote:

“Concession means to acknowledge an action is right, true or proper. As a woman of conscience and faith, I cannot concede,” Abrams said to supporters in 2018. “But my assessment is that the law currently allows no further viable remedy.”

Again, it's a fair position under the circumstances. That the GOP will happily work to twist it to muddy the waters doesn't make it any less fair, in and of itself.

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Over a year and still no smoking gun that Trump incited the riot.

Mob bosses are never the ones holding the smoking gun. And yet they get convicted.

Quote:

The riot was wrong but it's being overblown compared to the riots that took place after George Floyd, including the summer of love in Seattle.

You're parroting drivel of a truly high order. Whataboutism on crack+steroids.

[JoeMorgue]

"Wow lookit me say there's no evidence for the thing that's there's literally nothing but evidence for up to and including the person in question bragging about doing it. Sure would be a shame if the chip on my shoulder got knocked off about it..."

[uke2se]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Over a year and still no smoking gun that Trump incited the riot. The riot was wrong but it's being overblown compared to the riots that took place after George Floyd, including the summer of love in Seattle.

The committee will never subpoena the secret service agents that were in the car with Trump because they want to take Hutchinson's word at face value.

The committee also heard testimony from at least a few people who were with Trump, including a DOD staffer named Kash Patel who testified that Trump authorized up to 20,000 troops from the national guard to prevent any problems. and this was before January 6th. The committee of course never aired this testimony.

Nor did the committee show the written letter from the DC mayor declining the troops offered by Trump. Nor did the committee interview Pelosi or the DC Mayor who were declared off limits by the committee.

Liz "toast" Cheney also mentioned that there was intel of possible violence prior to January 6th but the committee never interviewed the security personnel and those in charge of them.

This is what we used to call a "fringe reset".

Too bad the fringe is in charge nowadays.

[JoeMorgue]

"Yes could we please start the discussion over completely and show where it was ever proven that Trump is anything less than an absolutely perfect angel? I promise intellectual honesty that I have never shown before if you indulge me this time."

[kookbreaker]

JoeCool once again tries to play the same tune that got him such praise in Trump worshiping Facebook groups and falls flat on his face.

[JoeMorgue]

I expect a very firm "I'm no Trumper, how dare you call me a Trumper, just because I'm totally incapable of saying anything that isn't a factually wrong apologetic talking point in favor of him that someone else came up with and I'm parroting doesn't mean I'm a Trumper" talking down to now.

[Donal]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Over a year and still no smoking gun that Trump incited the riot.

Other than his own words, but OK.

Quote:

The riot was wrong but it's being overblown compared to the riots that took place after George Floyd, including the summer of love in Seattle.

"b-b-but...the b-b-black people!" Try a new song. That one is old

Also, coincidentally, many of those incidents were either escalated or even instigated by groups like the Proud Boys and their friends in government.

Quote:

The committee will never subpoena the secret service agents that were in the car with Trump because they want to take Hutchinson's word at face value.

1) Uh, they did. At least, Engel gave a video deposition.

2) the incident in the car doesn't mean much, only further demonstrates Trump's frame of mind that day.

3) you can't make Hutchingson's conversations with Meadows and other members of Trump's inner circle go away.

Quote:

The committee also heard testimony from at least a few people who were with Trump, including a DOD staffer named Kash Patel who testified that Trump authorized up to 20,000 troops from the national guard to prevent any problems. and this was before January 6th. The committee of course never aired this testimony.

If that testimony never aired, how do you know what Patel said? Because Patel goes on Newsmax and the other right-wing podiums and tells you. The funny thing is that there is no evidence to back his claim. In, fact, we have evidence that contradicts it. If he is not lying in those TV interviews, then he lied in his sworn deposition.

Let's be real: he's lying to you so you have talking points ready. His deposition was most likely a few hours of him screaming "FIFTH!" like Flynn.

Quote:

Nor did the committee show the written letter from the DC mayor declining the troops offered by Trump.

Kind of hard to publish a letter declining an offer that wasn't made. what we do have is the correspondence between the DoD and Mayor of DC where the Mayor said she only wants the Guard assisting with traffic and crowd control. They weren't to be armed or perform law enforcement activities. And that still doesn't explain why there was no repsonse when people were calling Trump to deploy the Guard when it became clear the Capitol was going to be attacked.

Quote:

Nor did the committee interview Pelosi or the DC Mayor who were declared off-limits by the committee.

Not holding my breath on proof of that

Quote:

Liz "toast" Cheney also mentioned that there was intel of possible violence prior to January 6th but the committee never interviewed the security personnel and those in charge of them.

Yes, they did. Also, as mentioned above, the relevant parties gave public testimony before the Senate.

[shemp]

Who is that guy behind and to the left of the panel? He looks like Skippy from "Family Ties."

[shemp]

That's hilarious. The guy who got tapped on the shoulder and claimed he almost died, calling the normal people in the room "pussies."

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by shemp

Who is that guy behind and to the left of the panel? He looks like Skippy from "Family Ties."

That's exactly who it is and the picture dates back to at least 2007 if you do a Google Reverse Image Search

http://washedupcelebrities.blogspot....arc-price.html

[JoeMorgue]

//dupe//

[shemp]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

//dupe//

The first step to recovery is admitting it.

[eerok]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Over a year and still no smoking gun that Trump incited the riot.

I guess the smoke got in your eyes, then.

[Stacyhs]

Regarding Joecool's claim that there has been no "smoking gun":

First of all, there doesn't need to be the proverbial "smoking gun" to prove a case. There only needs to be evidence BARD and there is certainly that based on what the J6C has presented. Between Trump's own tweets/statements/videos, the testimony from many people (most of whom are Republicans), and the statements made on social media accounts, etc. there is more than smoke: there's a raging forest fire of guilt.

[JoeMorgue]

"Dur I'm sorry I musta missed wehre it got shown dat Trump did bad tings" is not a claim, it's bait.

[wareyin]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"Dur I'm sorry I musta missed wehre it got shown dat Trump did bad tings" is not a claim, it's bait.

Wait, per the mods here we have absolutely no way of knowing if that's the case, and even if it is there's absolutely nothing we can do about it because baiting/trolling isn't against the rules.

[dudalb]

"THere's gonna be a Red Wedding" was tweeted by some of the Organizers of the Jan 6th riots.
Yeah, just a bunch of peaceful citizens come to visit with their congressmen....

[plague311]

Originally Posted by dudalb

"THere's gonna be a Red Wedding" was tweeted by some of the Organizers of the Jan 6th riots.
Yeah, just a bunch of peaceful citizens come to visit with their congressmen....

Their rally cry was something about it being another 1776, I don't think anyone was under the impression they wanted a peaceful anything.

[Ladewig]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"Wow lookit me say there's no evidence for the thing that's there's literally nothing but evidence for up to and including the person in question bragging about doing it. Sure would be a shame if the chip on my shoulder got knocked off about it..."

If someone bragging about doing something is evidence that the person actually did that thing, then allow me to present evidence that I have slept Jennifer Lopez.

JenniWig was a short but intense relationship that was built on raw sexual passion.


ETA:
Given the president’s lifelong history of making stuff up to make himself look better, why would anyone think DJT was being truthful?
And even if DJT were telling the truth, have we excluded the possibility that he wanted 20,000 National guardsmen there to make it easier to declare martial law?

[Ladewig]

Originally Posted by plague311

Their rally cry was something about it being another 1776, I don't think anyone was under the impression they wanted a peaceful anything.

Yep!

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Ladewig

Given the president’s lifelong history of making stuff up to make himself look better, why would anyone think DJT was being truthful?

I get you're trying to be funny but I've heard "You can't trust Trump to admit what Trump has done" as a legit (well as legit as a troll army can be) argument from the Trumpers.

My point is there is no "in good faith" to go "I must have missed where it was shown Trump was involved" at this point.

But we must maintain the lie that all arguments are from honest agents.

[Stacyhs]

Mr. Ayres, who totally bought Trump's Big Lie, was in the Capitol on J6, but has since come to his senses and no longer supports Trump, had some good advice to people who deny what happened, including a few ISF members: take the blinders off.

[jimbob]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...qHs2ZN9IuiXMAg

Quote:

Wow -- Cheney says Trump tried to call a witness in the January 6 committee's investigation after the last hearing. The witness alerted their lawyer, who alerted the committee, and the committee passed that info along to the DOJ.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by jimbob

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...qHs2ZN9IuiXMAg

To expand a bit, per CNBC:

Quote:

“After our last hearing. President Trump tried to call a witness in our investigation. A witness you have not yet seen in these hearings,” Rep. Liz Cheney, the vice chair of the committee, said on Tuesday.

“That person declined to answer or respond to President Trump’s call and instead alerted their lawyer to the call. Their lawyer alerted us. And this committee has supplied that information to the Department of Justice,” she added.

It doesn't look like he succeeded. The individual just didn't answer the call, and passed the info along. Good on them.

That has to piss Trump off to no end. People not even answering him, just send him to voicemail and ignoring him completely. I wish I could be there to see it.

[Stacyhs]

Can't wait to hear who it was!

[Mike!]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Can't wait to hear who it was!

Don Jr.?

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Mike!

Don Jr.?

Fredo? That would be too funny.
Irony is that almost everybody in Trump's circle had nothing but comtempt for Donnie Jr. thinking he was a total idiot.

[slyjoe]

Republican politicians who attended the December 21, 2020 meeting with Trump where he threw the WH Counsel out of the meeting.

Rep. Mo Brooks of Alabama
Rep. Brian Babin of Texas
Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona
Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida
Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas
Rep. Paul Gosar of Arizona
Rep. Andy Harris of Maryland
Rep. Jody Hice of Georgia
Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio
Rep. Scott Perry of Pennsylvania
Rep-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia

These people essentially snuck into the White House to meet with Trump about overturning the election. There were a few names on there I had not heard before. The brainpower of that group is astounding.

[shemp]

Originally Posted by plague311

To expand a bit, per CNBC:



It doesn't look like he succeeded. The individual just didn't answer the call, and passed the info along. Good on them.

That has to piss Trump off to no end. People not even answering him, just send him to voicemail and ignoring him completely. I wish I could be there to see it.

Prediction: The DOJ will not do a damn thing with it.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Over a year and still no smoking gun that Trump incited the riot. The riot was wrong but it's being overblown compared to the riots that took place after George Floyd, including the summer of love in Seattle.

The committee will never subpoena the secret service agents that were in the car with Trump because they want to take Hutchinson's word at face value.

The committee also heard testimony from at least a few people who were with Trump, including a DOD staffer named Kash Patel who testified that Trump authorized up to 20,000 troops from the national guard to prevent any problems. and this was before January 6th. The committee of course never aired this testimony.

Nor did the committee show the written letter from the DC mayor declining the troops offered by Trump. Nor did the committee interview Pelosi or the DC Mayor who were declared off limits by the committee.

Liz "toast" Cheney also mentioned that there was intel of possible violence prior to January 6th but the committee never interviewed the security personnel and those in charge of them.

One the 20 000 Troops had to be Aproved By the Capitol Police Chief, Nancy Pelosi, Both Sergeant at Arms, and Mitch McConnell, not the DC Mayor!
Mitch McConnell would never have approved of National Guard Troops at The Capitol unless he Knew it was going to Come under attack By Antifa or BLM!
With Antifa and BLM actively telling People not to go too the Capitol on the 6th Mitch McConnell would never have approved of the National Guard!
Mitch McConnell underestimated Trump's Stupidity!
Second anyone who wants to testify to the Committee can do so they have a Confidencial Tip line.
Yes BLM knew about the Insurrection 5 seconds after Trump's it's going to be Wild Tweet, thanks to Mr.X tipping them off, that's why BLM and Antifa didn't show up in Washington!

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by shemp

Prediction: The DOJ will not do a damn thing with it.

They really can't because the call was never answered so there's no evidence that he was trying to influence the person. We can pretty much guess that was the intention but since he never actually did it, there isn't actually a crime.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by slyjoe

Republican politicians who attended the December 21, 2020 meeting with Trump where he threw the WH Counsel out of the meeting.

Rep. Mo Brooks of Alabama
Rep. Brian Babin of Texas
Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona
Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida
Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas
Rep. Paul Gosar of Arizona
Rep. Andy Harris of Maryland
Rep. Jody Hice of Georgia
Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio
Rep. Scott Perry of Pennsylvania
Rep-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia

These people essentially snuck into the White House to meet with Trump about overturning the election. There were a few names on there I had not heard before. The brainpower of that group is astounding.

They wanted Trump to declare the Insurrection act, but BLM and Antifa didn't show up at the party because they were Warned in advance.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Fredo? That would be too funny.
Irony is that almost everybody in Trump's circle had nothing but comtempt for Donnie Jr. thinking he was a total idiot.

Like Father Like Son.

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

They really can't because the call was never answered so there's no evidence that he was trying to influence the person. We can pretty much guess that was the intention but since he never actually did it, there isn't actually a crime.

No. There is no "attempted obstruction of justice" statute. It's because attempted is the same thing as succeeded - obstruction of justice.

It's possible there is other evidence of intent, but I doubt it.

ETA: Unless Trump actually left a voicemail

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Fredo? That would be too funny.
Irony is that almost everybody in Trump's circle had nothing but comtempt for Donnie Jr. thinking he was a total idiot.

Michael Cohen wrote in his book that Trump felt the same way. He derided him and called Jr. 'stupid', etc. in front of other people. It's one reason Jr. wants so badly to get his father's attention and approval...to the point of doing and saying anything to please him.