Am I wrong to be freightened of this?

[arayder]

The nightmare scenario.

Trump gets tried for Jan.6 or tampering with the Georgia count and gets convicted.

Before sentencing he starts whipping up his minions and tells them they have to take their country back by storming the courthouse just before the sentencing.

The maga mob gets the message just like they did on January 6 and storm the courthouse.

Am I paranoid?

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Yep.

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by arayder

The nightmare scenario.

Trump gets tried for Jan.6 or tampering with the Georgia count and gets convicted.

Before sentencing he starts whipping up his minions and tells them they have to take their country back by storming the courthouse just before the sentencing.

The maga mob gets the message just like they did on January 6 and storm the courthouse.

Am I paranoid?

I wouldn't call it a nightmare scenario, but it is not inconceivable either. I also don't think anyone would be caught as flatfooted as they were on Jan 6. We know what Trump is and what he's capable of.

[Warp12]

Originally Posted by arayder

Am I paranoid?

Who cares if it does happen, in the grand scheme? It wouldn't change anything about the outcome of the trial; at worst it would delay his sentencing, I suppose. I would be more concerned about the overall outcome if he isn't convicted, probably.

Are you paranoid? No, I don't think so. Do I think it is way premature to be concerned about such things? Yes.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by arayder

The nightmare scenario.

Trump gets tried for Jan.6 or tampering with the Georgia count and gets convicted.

Before sentencing he starts whipping up his minions and tells them they have to take their country back by storming the courthouse just before the sentencing.

The maga mob gets the message just like they did on January 6 and storm the courthouse.

Am I paranoid?

A/ A courthouse (federal or state) is much smaller and much easier to defend than the U.S. Capitol, and security measures would be taken well in advance.
B/ The sentencing could be delayed as needed or transferred on short or no notice to any other courthouse in the jurisdiction. It might even be conducted by video link.

[Robin]

I seriously doubt that Trump will ever be convicted.

Not that I don't think he's done anything illegsl. I just don't think he'll ever be held to account for anything.

[bruto]

I think Warp is rignt insofar as its not affecting the big scheme of things and the ultimate outcome of the trial.

But I think even if the ranting of a dangerous demagogue stirring up violent rebellion and lawlessness does not affect the big scheme of things, it's a bad thing by itself. How big a scheme do we concern ourselves with, anyway? Humanity will muddle on even if atom bombs fall on Kiev, and the universe itself will muddle on even if the earth blinks out of existence. But we're part of a nation and a society, and, insignificant though all our actions might prove in the great big scheme, I think we should care.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by arayder

The nightmare scenario.

Trump gets tried for Jan.6 or tampering with the Georgia count and gets convicted.

Before sentencing he starts whipping up his minions and tells them they have to take their country back by storming the courthouse just before the sentencing.

The maga mob gets the message just like they did on January 6 and storm the courthouse.

Am I paranoid?

If it happened again, I don't think the government would hold back. A dictator wannabe can survive one Beer Hall Putsch type event, but not two.

[dudalb]

Just shoot the bastards if they try it.,
Ypu can bet security is going to be really tight.
IE, pretty much the same as Guillvers.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by Warp12

Because I am making the reasonable assumption that precautions will be taken to mitigate any such action.

What action could be taken to mitigate any harm done by a crowd of the armed and dumb?

Quote:

Even at worst, it would not significantly affect the outcome of the trial.

That's not what I'm concerned about. I'm not worried about a bunch of Gravy SEALs actually succeeding in affecting the outcome of the trial. I'm worried about a bunch of Gravy SEALs who think they can. We've already seen Trump's eagerness to stir up aggression and violence in his supporters. If he felt he was going to be convicted, I see no reason to think he wouldn't repeat the same incendiary tactics. If he succeeded in stirring up even a small fraction of the sorts of moronic nut-jobs who stormed the Capitol in an armed insurrection then the potential for violence and death, even if they're overwhelmed by law enforcement, remains all too real. And the possibility of another domestic terrorism act, like the 1995 attack in Oklahoma City, is not zero either. Even if Trump wasn't to implore his followers to aid him, the possibility that someone could strike back at what they perceive to be the agencies responsible for his prosecution could be targeted. I see no justification for dismissing the possibility of violence from Trump zealots as something not worth concern. And that's what I'm addressing. Not the likelihood of any such attempts succeeding, but your implication that it's not worth caring about. The insurrectionists on Jan. 6 last year didn't succeed, but people still died.

Edited by Agatha:

Removed reference to material sent to AAH

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by arayder

Am I paranoid?

I sure as Hell hope so.

[arayder]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

That's not what I'm concerned about. I'm not worried about a bunch of Gravy SEALs actually succeeding in affecting the outcome of the trial. I'm worried about a bunch of Gravy SEALs who think they can. We've already seen Trump's eagerness to stir up aggression and violence in his supporters. If he felt he was going to be convicted, I see no reason to think he wouldn't repeat the same incendiary tactics. If he succeeded in stirring up even a small fraction of the sorts of moronic nut-jobs who stormed the Capitol in an armed insurrection then the potential for violence and death, even if they're overwhelmed by law enforcement, remains all too real. And the possibility of another domestic terrorism act, like the 1995 attack in Oklahoma City, is not zero either. Even if Trump wasn't to implore his followers to aid him, the possibility that someone could strike back at what they perceive to be the agencies responsible for his prosecution could be targeted. I see no justification for dismissing the possibility of violence from Trump zealots as something not worth concern. And that's what I'm addressing. Not the likelihood of any such attempts succeeding, but your implication that it's not worth caring about. The insurrectionists on Jan. 6 last year didn't succeed, but people still died.

I also have concerns about witness and jury tampering.

[GlennB]

Originally Posted by Robin

I seriously doubt that Trump will ever be convicted.

Not that I don't think he's done anything illegsl. I just don't think he'll ever be held to account for anything.

Agreed, though I hope I'm wrong. The US legal system seems perfect for someone like him to spin it out for years (and years and ...)

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by Warp12

Because I am making the reasonable assumption that precautions will be taken to mitigate any such action. Even at worst, it would not significantly affect the outcome of the trial.

Obviously this has nothing to do with the concept of age-appropriate materials being distributed to children at public libraries. We already have a thread for that debate.

The OP mentioned sentencing, not a trial.

[Warp12]

Originally Posted by slyjoe

The OP mentioned sentencing, not a trial.

As I already mentioned in my first post...at worst, it delays sentencing.

[Warp12]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

What action could be taken to mitigate any harm done by a crowd of the armed and dumb?

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

Maybe you could actually answer the question?

I consider the question to be so absurd as not to justify an answer. It seems almost rhetorical in nature; obviously there are many high-risk security scenarios, and with proper planning the risks are mitigated. From a historical perspective, this one would be small-potatoes and not unexpected.

[arayder]

Originally Posted by slyjoe

The OP mentioned sentencing, not a trial.

The scenario goes to Trump being at the end of his rope much like he was on Jan. 6.

At trial he and his lawyer could do all sorts of things which they would hope might get him off the hook.

But if it started going bad I could see Trump working on a plan for escape or flight. The rescue by a maga mob option might be the idea of the maga boys but as a workable solution, getting DJT to safety if they spring him seems doubtful.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by Warp12

As I already mentioned in my first post...at worst, it delays sentencing.

Come on! Where's that imagination that conjured up scenes of librarians handing copies of the Karma Sutra to nine-year-old children? If you can conjure up that scenario, certainly you can imagine a far less fanciful scenario where a moron who thinks the election was stolen from his savior and has spent more money on assault rifles and ammunition than on housing and food for the last six or more years might drive to Georgia and park a couple of blocks from the courthouse to fire a couple of magazines at it, possibly killing innocent people, or packs a few steel drums with fertilizer and diesel and drives to the nearest Federal building to make a name for himself. It kind of seems like that might be worse than a delay in sentencing. But that's just me.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by Warp12

I consider the question to be so absurd as not to justify an answer.

You say that often when you've cornered yourself with statements that you can't defend with an actual argument.

You said:

Originally Posted by Warp12

Because I am making the reasonable assumption that precautions will be taken to mitigate any such action.

And I asked:
What action could be taken to mitigate any harm done by a crowd of the armed and dumb?

If your assumption is reasonable, then you should be able to offer a reason. The fact that you haven't offered any reason, and have rather resorted to an attempt at deflection by theatrically dismissing a question that directly follows from your statement as "absurd" tells me that you can't offer a reason.

[Warp12]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

If your assumption is reasonable, then you should be able to offer a reason. The fact that you haven't offered any reason, and have rather resorted to an attempt at deflection by theatrically dismissing a question that directly follows from your statement as "absurd" tells me that you can't offer a reason.

But, I did offer a reason for my position. In the same very post you quoted.

Originally Posted by Warp12

...obviously there are many high-risk security scenarios, and with proper planning the risks are mitigated. From a historical perspective, this one would be small-potatoes and not unexpected.

Let me make this clear: if I don't feel an argument justifies a response, you can generally expect there will not be one. In light of that, I think I have went above and beyond in this case.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by Warp12

But, I did offer a reason for my position. In the same very post you quoted.




Let me make this clear: if I don't feel an argument justifies a response, you can generally expect there will not be one. In light of that, I think I have went above and beyond in this case.

"How can we prevent this?"

"By having a plan to prevent it."

Again,

[Warp12]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

"How can we prevent this?"

"By having a plan to prevent it."

Again,

This is funny...in the sense that you apparently expect Warp12 to come up with a risk assessment and mitigation plan for such a thing. There are very highly paid security experts, and highly skilled security personnel who work in tandem on such matters. What is laughable about "having a plan to prevent it"? Nothing.

I won't be addressing this any further, as I feel your position cannot be taken seriously.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by arayder

The nightmare scenario.

Trump gets tried for Jan.6 or tampering with the Georgia count and gets convicted.

Before sentencing he starts whipping up his minions and tells them they have to take their country back by storming the courthouse just before the sentencing.

The maga mob gets the message just like they did on January 6 and storm the courthouse.

Am I paranoid?

Perhaps, as to the final question.
But I can only hope that's what comes to pass.

[Mike!]

For now I think I'd be, at best, no more than 'mildly concerned', and under no present circumstance should you allow yourself to be genuinely 'frightened' by the prospect of such an event taking place at some undetermined point in the future.

[arayder]

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

. . . certainly you can imagine a far less fanciful scenario where a moron who thinks the election was stolen from his savior and has spent more money on assault rifles and ammunition than on housing and food for the last six or more years might drive to Georgia and park a couple of blocks from the courthouse to fire a couple of magazines at it, possibly killing innocent people, or packs a few steel drums with fertilizer and diesel and drives to the nearest Federal building to make a name for himself. It kind of seems like that might be worse than a delay in sentencing. But that's just me.

Yeah, I think lone wolf scenario is a possibility.

The challenge for the authorities is to be ready for everything and bat 1,000%. They can't afford to be wrong once.

I say "is" because we can easily imagine that judges, DOJ officials and others are already in the crosshairs of some of those ultra maga nuts.

[Foster Zygote]

Originally Posted by Warp12

This is funny...in the sense that you apparently expect Warp12 to come up with a risk assessment and mitigation plan for such a thing. There are very highly paid security experts, and highly skilled security personnel who work in tandem on such matters. What is laughable about "having a plan to prevent it"? Nothing.

I won't be addressing this any further, as I feel your position cannot be taken seriously.

A certain Neil Innes song comes to mind.

The fact is that there simply is no way to mitigate the risk of any acts of violence from being perpetrated by one or more zealot followers of a sociopolitical cult bent on enacting revenge against what they see as a transcendent evil. If it was as easy as you seem to think it is we wouldn't be keeping a running tally of mass shootings in this country. I'd chalk your insistence that there's no possibility of anything worse than a delay of trial up to naïveté, but I honestly think it's just obstinacy.

[Cat Not Included]

No way trump will actually be convicted for his many crimes, but if somehow he was, without political power behind them nothing his cult tries to do to "save" him would pan out.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by arayder

The nightmare scenario.

Trump gets tried for Jan.6 or tampering with the Georgia count and gets convicted.

Before sentencing he starts whipping up his minions and tells them they have to take their country back by storming the courthouse just before the sentencing.

The maga mob gets the message just like they did on January 6 and storm the courthouse.

And then what? It was just getting interesting.

[crescent]

Originally Posted by arayder

The nightmare scenario.

This seems to be a repeat of the concern you expressed in the previous thread:

Not on the Court House Steps?

[arayder]

Originally Posted by crescent

This seems to be a repeat of the concern you expressed in the previous thread:

Not on the Court House Steps?

Yes. For me Jan 6 opened the flood gates of possibilities.

Anybody who'd pull that stuff, and Trump did, is capable of anything.

[bruto]

I think it comes down to this: if Trump is tried, he will lie and throw stuff and behave badly as he always does, and there's a significant chance his brain-dead base will respond badly as they always do, and a good chance the cowering courts and conniving parties involved will let him get away with it as they always do, and if not the brain-dead base will take to the barricades in their usual righteous riot of error, misattribution and misunderstanding.

And no matter what the outcome it will be nasty. I am guessing that, as Warp puts it, there will be plenty of contingency plans and can certainly hope that they are better thought out than last time, but no result will be good, because Trump's stock in trade is a **** show, what he has done in the past and what he does now is despicable and corrupt, and everything he does in the future will be another assault on the body politic.

[TragicMonkey]

Perhaps Trump will run off to the wilderness to live off the grid, in order to escape justice! He will roam the mountain forests alone, living off the land, seizing squirrels from the trees and field mice from the beaks of passing owls. His legend will grow and many will claim to have spotted, off in the distance, roaring majestically, that fantastic beast: Bigfat!

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Perhaps Trump will run off to the wilderness to live off the grid, in order to escape justice! He will roam the mountain forests alone, living off the land, seizing squirrels from the trees and field mice from the beaks of passing owls. His legend will grow and many will claim to have spotted, off in the distance, roaring majestically, that fantastic beast: Bigfat!

Orangetan surely!

[angrysoba]

“Daddy, how did the Second Civil War start?”

“The Second Civil War, which rectified the result of the rigged First Civil War, occurred when Generalissimo Trump - Eternal President of the Dominion of These United States was wrongly convicted on Bidened up charges which are blasphemous to repeat…”

No, I don’t think it will happen. But iI want to copyright it now as the opening of my alternative history novel Daddyland, a fictional account of a MAGAbot’s memories.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

“Daddy, how did the Second Civil War start?”

“The Second Civil War, which rectified the result of the rigged First Civil War, occurred when Generalissimo Trump - Eternal President of the Dominion of These United States was wrongly convicted on Bidened up charges which are blasphemous to repeat…”

No, I don’t think it will happen. But iI want to copyright it now as the opening of my alternative history novel Daddyland, a fictional account of a MAGAbot’s memories.

Mine Dumpf!

[bruto]

One of the bestselling Right Behind series.

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by arayder

The challenge for the authorities is to be ready for everything and bat 1,000%. They can't afford to be wrong once.

Actually we can afford it. Just because we may not want to pay that price doesn't mean we can't.

History is full of stories about wars in which lots of people "got it wrong" several times, but still ultimately prevailed over their adversaries. And this will happen again in the future, pretty much guaranteed.

The prospect of an actual Civil War in the US, even just a small one, is unpleasant, but if one side is bound and determined to use violence to support its cause, this is something we need to be ready for. And we'll win, because we outnumber the idiots, and we're not idiots.

So what happens in this scenario? A bunch of the MAGAts get slaughtered, the rest get arrested, and everyone else sees them and Trump for who they really are. None of them ever see the outside of a prison again.

[sackett]

If Thump goes to prison, almost at once we'll see a messianic figure arise, call her Jolene of Arkansas, who will inspire a religious uprising. An armed one, of course.

The Made In New Orleans! How she'll hypnotize the faithful!! They'll be known to each other as the Yalls, as in, "Y'all load up, bleevers! Fill them MAGAzines 'n less go groomer huntin'!"

The liberalz won't stop running until they reach their mother's vineyard.

[Thermal]

Trump is not going to prison. Not because he doesn't deserve to; it just ain't happening. The betting window is open for any takers.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by arayder

The challenge for the authorities is to be ready for everything and bat 1,000%. They can't afford to be wrong once.

Sure they can. They're wrong all the time, and the nation muddles on. They were wrong on 9/11, and it turns out we could afford it. They were wrong at the Boston Marathon, and we could afford it. They were wrong on Jan 6, and we could afford it. Hell, someone even managed to wrong-foot the Secret Service and put a bullet in a president, and we could afford it.