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Old 4th January 2023, 02:40 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It is clear at this stage what the "rebels" want ?

Do they really want Jim Jeffreys Jordan as speaker (even though he himself does not want the role) ? Do they instead want more concessions of the type mentioned upthread in terms of Biden impeachment, Fauci to have his pension removed (and/or be imprisoned) and for them to get prime committee positions (and even be the majority on those committees) ?

Are they instead just throwing their toys out of the pram, for no particular reason, just because they can and because it gets them publicity ?
FTFY. Jeffries is the Democrat.
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Old 4th January 2023, 02:54 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
FTFY. Jeffries is the Democrat.
Derp
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Old 4th January 2023, 03:44 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SO you want one party rule in the US.Nice.

Until the GOP changes, you have to ask why any hypothetical Republican of good intent is still supporting the party. It's not the Party of Reagn; hell, it's not even the party of Nixon.
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Old 4th January 2023, 03:45 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Derp
One word that encapsulates so much recent politics in the English speaking world.
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Old 4th January 2023, 04:20 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I believe that the schadenfreude that the Dems feel will be short-lived. There is a good chance that the deplorables will ultimately all compromise on one who might represent them the best...possibly Jim Jordan and then it will be back to business...."owning the libz" and hobbling the Presidency.
The Democrats can, if they choose, end this. Either a few don't show up or some vote for McCarthy and you get a situation where Jordan is locked out and McCarthy owes his seat to the Democrats.
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Old 4th January 2023, 04:22 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
The Democrats can, if they choose, end this. Either a few don't show up or some vote for McCarthy and you get a situation where Jordan is locked out and McCarthy owes his seat to the Democrats.
And....? What makes you think that Kevin McCarthy will in any way acknowledge what he owes to the dems? We are talking about a party that has consistently backed out of any assurance of fair play.
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Old 4th January 2023, 04:57 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Until the GOP changes, you have to ask why any hypothetical Republican of good intent is still supporting the party. It's not the Party of Reagn; hell, it's not even the party of Nixon.
It also ignores two important points.
1) That it's entirely the fault of the GOP, why should the Dems intervene when they appear to be happily schisming.

2) Opposing the GOP is the glue that holds the Dems together, without them they're going to fly apart into a range of groups that'll probably be the new parties
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Old 4th January 2023, 05:20 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
The Democrats can, if they choose, end this. Either a few don't show up or some vote for McCarthy and you get a situation where Jordan is locked out and McCarthy owes his seat to the Democrats.
So what if he owes his seat to the Democrats ?

Do you, for one second, think that he would in any way acknowledge this and act accordingly? The second he is in post he will progress the GOP agenda.
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Old 4th January 2023, 05:25 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It is clear at this stage what the "rebels" want ?

Do they really want Jim Jeffreys as speaker (even though he himself does not want the role) ? D
I know Stacyhs has already helped out here, but Jim Jeffries would be an ideal speaker as anyone who has heard his tale of his visit to the porn warehouse in Amsterdam will know.
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Old 4th January 2023, 05:36 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Athyrio View Post
Soooo……. who gets to be President if Biden and Harris keel over today?
The various secretaries have not been fired yet. And there is no change in president so this time it would not be a problem. If there were a new president and a new party taking over congress, the succession might be problematic.
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Old 4th January 2023, 06:06 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I believe that the schadenfreude that the Dems feel will be short-lived. There is a good chance that the deplorables will ultimately all compromise on one who might represent them the best...possibly Jim Jordan and then it will be back to business...."owning the libz" and hobbling the Presidency.
Yeah, but that was always the GOP plan for this Congress. Dems lose nothing by enjoying the show.

That's the problem with no-holds-barred obstructionism. Yeah, you can stop your opponent's agenda pretty easily, and if you can make it seem like that is a positive accomplishment, that might be good for votes. But there is no room for actual negotiation, and no reason for the other side to do anything to help you out when you are experiencing a self-inflicted wound.
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Old 4th January 2023, 06:26 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
The Democrats can, if they choose, end this. Either a few don't show up or some vote for McCarthy and you get a situation where Jordan is locked out and McCarthy owes his seat to the Democrats.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

- Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Old 4th January 2023, 06:39 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Yeah, but that was always the GOP plan for this Congress. Dems lose nothing by enjoying the show.

That's the problem with no-holds-barred obstructionism. Yeah, you can stop your opponent's agenda pretty easily, and if you can make it seem like that is a positive accomplishment, that might be good for votes. But there is no room for actual negotiation, and no reason for the other side to do anything to help you out when you are experiencing a self-inflicted wound.
They've now got members that have been schooled in the idea that you never compromise, it's hardly surprising they turn that attitude to their own party.
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Old 4th January 2023, 07:02 AM   #134
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I'm not familiar with the full cast of decenters, but with Greene, Boebert, and Gaetz I think there needs to be only one more hardline decenter and McCarthy is screwed.
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Old 4th January 2023, 07:31 AM   #135
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Jordan? Gym Jordan? Oohoo! If he was in the job and I was a Congresscritter, I'd be in trouble every day for addressing him not as "Mr. Speaker," but as "Mr. Futtbucker," and then doing my famous double take, "I beg your pardon, sir, I never meant to be CHEEKY!"

Oh it's great to be back in America!
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Old 4th January 2023, 08:36 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
I know Stacyhs has already helped out here, but Jim Jeffries would be an ideal speaker as anyone who has heard his tale of his visit to the porn warehouse in Amsterdam will know.
I was going to say the same thing. He has a wonderful outlook on gun control as well. Also, I've never heard the C word used on the floor of the House and God knows it would be used ad nauseum if Jeffries were up there.
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Old 4th January 2023, 09:03 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I'm not familiar with the full cast of decenters, but with Greene, Boebert, and Gaetz I think there needs to be only one more hardline decenter and McCarthy is screwed.
I think they would need 2 more; they have 222 reps, correct?
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Old 4th January 2023, 09:07 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
I think they would need 2 more; they have 222 reps, correct?
Yes, McCarthy can be elected speaker with up to 4 GoP dissenting votes... assuming they don't dissent by voting "present" in which case he can stand to lose more votes.
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Old 4th January 2023, 09:24 AM   #139
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I think this process just shows that the only things the republicans can do is to oppose democrats. They can't accomplish anything on their own.

They should just vote for a democratic speaker so they can just obstruct everything.
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Old 4th January 2023, 10:05 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
So what if he owes his seat to the Democrats ?

Do you, for one second, think that he would in any way acknowledge this and act accordingly? The second he is in post he will progress the GOP agenda.
It doesn't matter what he does after that. He will look even weaker than he does now and the Republicans will pull the rug out from under him as soon as they can.

The minimum business to run the country will get done and nothing else. And then when they do sack him the whole thing starts over again.
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Old 4th January 2023, 10:34 AM   #141
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Suppose the Democrats agree to elect Whistlebritches if he and his GOP supporters in turn agree to specific conditions publicly and in writing. Yes, political deal-making out in the open and documented, for all voters to see. This Great January Accord would not be law, it would be a contract between honorable men to pursue the public good.

Rethuglican treachery and false dealing would of course follow, but it could never be defended as policy, or as anything honest. It would at last be seen as open black-shirted thuggery, unworthy of any man who had ever sworn an oath of office.

IOW, business as usual and without pretense. It wouldn't solve any immediate problems. But it might -- I think it would have to -- turn enough citizens' stomachs to change 2024 in some good ways.
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Old 4th January 2023, 10:36 AM   #142
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Old 4th January 2023, 10:41 AM   #143
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I wonder what the result would look like if it were an anonymous vote.
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Old 4th January 2023, 10:41 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Suppose the Democrats agree to elect Whistlebritches if he and his GOP supporters in turn agree to specific conditions publicly and in writing. Yes, political deal-making out in the open and documented, for all voters to see. This Great January Accord would not be law, it would be a contract between honorable men to pursue the public good.

Rethuglican treachery and false dealing would of course follow, but it could never be defended as policy, or as anything honest. It would at last be seen as open black-shirted thuggery, unworthy of any man who had ever sworn an oath of office.

IOW, business as usual and without pretense. It wouldn't solve any immediate problems. But it might -- I think it would have to -- turn enough citizens' stomachs to change 2024 in some good ways.
He has done that so far - that's what his "55 page" document did: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rdliners-house
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Old 4th January 2023, 10:43 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I wonder what the result would look like if it were an anonymous vote.
Even better - have Jim Jeffreys change his name to Jim Jordan but don't tell the republicans.
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Old 4th January 2023, 10:49 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
It doesn't matter what he does after that. He will look even weaker than he does now and the Republicans will pull the rug out from under him as soon as they can.

The minimum business to run the country will get done and nothing else. And then when they do sack him the whole thing starts over again.
As far as I can see, the modern day GOP has no interest in governing, just stopping the Democrats from achieving anything. Likely their first item of business will be some kind of political grandstanding rather than real legislation

Last edited by The Don; 4th January 2023 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 4th January 2023, 11:12 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Suppose the Democrats agree to elect Whistlebritches if he and his GOP supporters in turn agree to specific conditions publicly and in writing. Yes, political deal-making out in the open and documented, for all voters to see. This Great January Accord would not be law, it would be a contract between honorable men to pursue the public good.

Rethuglican treachery and false dealing would of course follow, but it could never be defended as policy, or as anything honest. It would at last be seen as open black-shirted thuggery, unworthy of any man who had ever sworn an oath of office.

IOW, business as usual and without pretense. It wouldn't solve any immediate problems. But it might -- I think it would have to -- turn enough citizens' stomachs to change 2024 in some good ways.
The GOP does not care about how they look. Shamelessness is their superpower.
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Old 4th January 2023, 11:16 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
The GOP does not care about how they look. Shamelessness is their superpower.
Exactly. This more like the first line of 'defense', the first installment of blocking the government. And all the crazies get their fame for the 'how great a debate is' and 'that's democracy' lines...
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Old 4th January 2023, 11:39 AM   #149
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I read an article that McCarthy might try to get enough "Present" votes to only need 213 votes, not 218. Wouldn't it be hilarious if they ended up botching that process so that Jeffries did end up as speaker 212-211.
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Old 4th January 2023, 11:42 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
He has done that so far - that's what his "55 page" document did: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rdliners-house
Here's a direct link to that document: Adopting Rules for the 118TH Congress

A bit odd, the article refers to a 55 page document, referring to the linked document. But the linked document is only 12 pages.

That seems to have very little in the way of compromise with the Democrats. It's much more focused on compromising with the far right:
Quote:
Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic. Subsection (a) establishes the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic of the Committee on Oversight and Accountability to investigate, make findings, and provide legislative recommendations on the origins of the Coronavirus pandemic, including the Federal Government’s funding of gain-of-function research, the use of taxpayer funds and relief programs to address the pandemic, the effectiveness of laws and regulations to address the Coronavirus pandemic and prepare for future pandemics, the development of vaccines and treatments and the implementation of vaccine mandates for federal employees and the military, the economic impact of the pandemic, including state and local government responses, the impact of school closures on American children, Executive Branch decisions and communications related to the pandemic, the protection of whistleblowers who provided information about improper activities, and inter-government cooperation regarding oversight of the preparedness for and response to the pandemic.
The Speaker is directed to appoint up to 12 Members, Delegates, or the Resident Commissioner to serve on the Select Subcommittee and to designate one of its members to serve as the chair. Not more than five of the members may be appointed on the recommendation of the Minority Leader.
Quote:
A bill to prohibit taxpayer funded abortions.
Quote:
A resolution establishing the Select Committee on the Strategic Competition Between the United States and the Chinese Communist Party.
• A resolution establishing a Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government as a select investigative subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary.
Quote:
Subsection (g) provides for the consideration of a concurrent resolution expressing the sense of Congress condemning the recent attacks on prolife facilities, groups, and churches
Quote:
Subsection (h) allows the Speaker to recognize a member for the reading of the Constitution on any legislative day through February 28, 2023.
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Old 4th January 2023, 11:59 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Hey, relax. Any and all republican'ts who don't win can cry fraud.

F'rinstance: Who actually hired that clerk? Was he vetted? How bout his wife? I wanna see his laptop. His DNA. Take back the steal!
The black woman who's being the house clerk and running the show at the moment in the House is a Pelosi pick.
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:02 PM   #152
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Just flipped over to a news channel and saw Boob-bert nominating someone. Flipped back.
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:03 PM   #153
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Are the members called in alphabetical order, everytime? Because there are already 4 against him, but they are very early in the numbers.
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:03 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Maybe George Santos can declare himself to be the winner.
Anything's possible!
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:05 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
More like a **** show in slow motion. The vote is slow and tedious, but it makes good television. If this goes past 9 ballots, I'll throw my hat in the ring!
Your more qualified!
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:06 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Based on Shemp's arithmetic, get 10 of the nutjobs to not vote and the humiliation would be complete.
That or vote for the janitor...
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:09 PM   #157
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4th vote lost.
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:10 PM   #158
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OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:12 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
On CNN, Jonah Goldberg of The Dispatch called it a "fecal festival"!
You got a link to that?
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Old 4th January 2023, 12:13 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle View Post
No. The only time a Democrat should vote for an R is to permanently disbar them from any office.
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