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Old 14th January 2023, 10:50 AM   #1
Hans
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If Biden resigns over papergate

How functional would a Harris -McCarthy administration be? Seriously how would that even work?
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Old 14th January 2023, 10:59 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
How functional would a Harris -McCarthy administration be? Seriously how would that even work?
The order of succession just promotes the next person on the list into the Presidency. It does not promote everyone under them. If Biden were to leave office, Harris would become President, but McCarthy would not advance a step into the Vice-Presidency.

Replacing the Vice President would be separate.
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:03 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
How functional would a Harris -McCarthy administration be? Seriously how would that even work?
McCarthy? If the president resigns the vice president moves up to the presidency and then appoints a vice president, confirmed by Congress. Speaker doesn't move up; the speaker's in the line of succession only if both president and vice president are removed simultaneously, as in an emergency like if they're both squashed by a falling ice cream truck.
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:10 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
McCarthy? If the president resigns the vice president moves up to the presidency and then appoints a vice president, confirmed by Congress. Speaker doesn't move up; the speaker's in the line of succession only if both president and vice president are removed simultaneously, as in an emergency like if they're both squashed by a falling ice cream truck.
Good to know. Any guesses who she might pick?
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:15 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
McCarthy? If the president resigns the vice president moves up to the presidency and then appoints a vice president, confirmed by Congress.
Can the House block the appointment?
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Blank View Post
Can the House block the appointment?
Why would they want to? Why would it matter? The Vice Presidency is almost entirely inconsequential. And thanks to the extremely well-established rules of succession, a gap in that office won't cause a problem even if the President suddenly disappears.

The worst thing that could possibly happen without a Vice President is that the Senate would be unable to pass a highly contentious, polarizing, divisive bill by a single vote. And that is fine with me. Forcing things half of everyone doesn't want, by the slimmest of margins, is not such a great idea anyway.
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:41 AM   #7
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why would they want to? Why would it matter? The Vice Presidency is almost entirely inconsequential. And thanks to the extremely well-established rules of succession, a gap in that office won't cause a problem even if the President suddenly disappears.

The obvious reason that might spring to mind is that if a VP isn't appointed they are one impeachment/accident/lone gunman from the Presidency?
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:45 AM   #9
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Why in the world would President Biden resign over this? I mean speculating about how a President Harris would roll out is one thing, but can we at least propose a reasonable pretext for her to ascend? Like, he had a senior moment and made a wrong turn in the White House hallways and got mixed in with a troupe of geriatric tourists and ended up turning tricks in the Villages?
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:51 AM   #10
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I can't see Biden resigning over this. There's been a lot of histrionics from the right trying to equate this with what Trump did, but they aren't remotely equivalent.
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:54 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
The obvious reason that might spring to mind is that if a VP isn't appointed they are one impeachment/accident/lone gunman from the Presidency?
Huh?
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Old 14th January 2023, 11:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
I can't see Biden resigning over this. There's been a lot of histrionics from the right trying to equate this with what Trump did, but they aren't remotely equivalent.
It doesn't help that the GOP has spent months trying to minimize Trumps actions. If you are going to say that Biden should be punished for something but Trump shouldn't be, you need to show the difference between the two actions, and all the differences make Trump look worse.
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:11 PM   #13
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I don't think this is something we need much time spent discussing. Let's move on to "If a meteor hit Congress during the State of the Union and the entire government were wiped out would Kiefer Sutherland become President?"
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why would they want to? Why would it matter? The Vice Presidency is almost entirely inconsequential. And thanks to the extremely well-established rules of succession, a gap in that office won't cause a problem even if the President suddenly disappears.
cf 'a bucket of warm spit'?
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Can the House block the appointment?
Quote:
Why would they want to? Why would it matter? The Vice Presidency is almost entirely inconsequential. And thanks to the extremely well-established rules of succession, a gap in that office won't cause a problem even if the President suddenly disappears.
Quote:
The obvious reason that might spring to mind is that if a VP isn't appointed they are one impeachment/accident/lone gunman from the Presidency?
Quote:
Huh?
I thought it was pretty obvious...

Its not just a case of "do rules exist to handle the situation". Its a case of "what will happen when those rules are applied".

Yes, there will always be a president according to the rules of succession. But WHO becomes the president in that scenario will have an impact.

If something happens to Biden and Harris becomes President (but with no VP because the house republicans were able to block it), then if something happens to her (accident/assassination/etc.), the republicans would see McCarthy become president. That will better allow republicans to advance a fascist agenda... he could preemptively pardon Trump, replace the cabinet with far-right toadies who will do everything they can to wreck their departments so they can claim "government doesn't work", try to appoint more unqualified judges, get the DoJ to investigate various republican "enemies", etc. That would give congressional republicans an incentive to block any attempt to pick a new VP.

The democrats would likely want to avoid that scenario, and thus would want to get a Democrat selected as VP as soon as possible so if something happened to Harris, you'd have another non-fascist who would end up becoming president.
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Good to know. Any guesses who she might pick?
If she were smart, the most radical far-left candidate that she could find. (AOC or Bernie Sanders?)

That way, any potential far-right assassins might avoid killing her because they would just get someone they would see as worse.
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:24 PM   #17
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Can't be AOC.. Needs to be atleast 35 years of age
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Blank View Post
Can't be AOC.. Needs to be atleast 35 years of age
#MillennialProblems
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why would they want to?
Have you been living under a rock for just the last 15 years, or for longer than that?
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:30 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Blank View Post
Can the House block the appointment?
Yes. The nominee has to pass both houses of Congress according to the 25th Amendment, Section 2:

Quote:
Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
I'm in the "unlikely to happen" camp; the most likely outcome is not that Republicans call for Biden's impeachment and conviction, but that Democrats cool off a bit about Trump's classified docs.
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
that Democrats cool off a bit about Trump's classified docs.
That's not really up to them anymore, is it?
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:45 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
How functional would a Harris -McCarthy administration be? Seriously how would that even work?
There is no chance Biden would resign. Depending on developments, it might influence his decision about whether to run in 2024. But it's too early to speculate about that.
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't think this is something we need much time spent discussing. Let's move on to "If a meteor hit Congress during the State of the Union and the entire government were wiped out would Kiefer Sutherland become President?"
I think the line of succession passes through Sgt. Oddball first.
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:49 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Huh?
With no VP the Speaker would be next in line of succession.

Another reason why people occasionally, without much impact, urge revision of the line of succession. At present if something happened to the President and VP together, or to the former VP/new President before a new VP could be confirmed, the government could abruptly change party hands at a time when stability would be most desperately needed. Imagine President McCarthy taking office tomorrow.

Last edited by Bob001; 14th January 2023 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 14th January 2023, 12:55 PM   #25
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What? Resign?

No, a scenario I can envision is where, following Trump’s indictment for his document/pussy grab, the Republicans retaliate by impeaching him.
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Old 14th January 2023, 01:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I'm in the "unlikely to happen" camp; the most likely outcome is not that Republicans call for Biden's impeachment and conviction, but that Democrats cool off a bit about Trump's classified docs.
Lets set aside the rather... questionable... morality of allowing a likely criminal like Trump to evade justice just because he's got "friends in the government"....

You are mistakenly assuming that congressional republicans would actually make the connection and would actually care...

The Democrats could absolve Trump of all his crimes, issue pardons to him and his conspirators, etc. and it would not likely change the Republican's actions. Republicans are incapable of taking rational actions (hence the reason why Hunter Biden and his foreign dealings is a thing while Jared Kushner gets swept under the rug.)

Republicans would still proceed with an impeachment, because they don't really have policies to run on... they can only exist by drumming up fake outrage, and that involves imaginary "crimes" committed by Biden.
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Old 14th January 2023, 01:17 PM   #27
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So.. If the party has control of the House and the Senate they could take over presidency with 2 consecutive impeachments (that would pass since they would control both cabinets)

Or are there some safeguards in place for this or is it just "no one would ever do it"/"It's against unwritten rules" type of safeguards.
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Old 14th January 2023, 01:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Blank View Post
So.. If the party has control of the House and the Senate they could take over presidency with 2 consecutive impeachments (that would pass since they would control both cabinets)
Its not the cabinets they would need to control, but they would have to control both the senate and house of representatives in congress. (And they would need more than just a majority in the senate.)

But yes, it is certainly possible. It would be a strange situation to have one party dominate congress (to the point where impeachment would actually pass the senate) but not have the presidency.
Quote:
Or are there some safeguards in place for this or is it just "no one would ever do it"/"It's against unwritten rules" type of safeguards.
Nope, no safeguards. Just "unwritten rules" (that can easily be broken), and the fact that they need more than just a majority in the senate to convict. (Otherwise, I am sure that the republicans would have probably tried that with Obama.)
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Old 14th January 2023, 01:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Blank View Post
So.. If the party has control of the House and the Senate they could take over presidency with 2 consecutive impeachments (that would pass since they would control both cabinets)

Or are there some safeguards in place for this or is it just "no one would ever do it"/"It's against unwritten rules" type of safeguards.
Impeachment is the equivalent of an indictment. It requires a majority vote of the House. But conviction in the Senate requires a two-thirds vote. It's very unlikely that one side or another would control 67 votes.
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Old 14th January 2023, 01:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Impeachment is the equivalent of an indictment. It requires a majority vote of the House. But conviction in the Senate requires a two-thirds vote. It's very unlikely that one side or another would control 67 votes.
Its not that unlikely with the way state demographics work in the Senate, but it is difficult to imagine a situation where one side has a majority in the house, a supermajority in the Senate, and doesn't already control the Presidency.
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Old 14th January 2023, 03:14 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why would they want to?
Because the Republicans only reason to exist is to obstruct the normal workings of the American political system? They've thrown every other norm out, why would this one be different?
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Old 14th January 2023, 03:28 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Because the Republicans only reason to exist is to obstruct the normal workings of the American political system? They've thrown every other norm out, why would this one be different?
Blank was already indulging that fantasy. Do you have anything original to say?
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Old 14th January 2023, 03:38 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Blank was already indulging that fantasy. Do you have anything original to say?
He was restating a case because you were being willfully obtuse and pretending not to get the point. Don't get mad at him for humoring you.
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Old 14th January 2023, 04:25 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Blank View Post
So.. If the party has control of the House and the Senate they could take over presidency with 2 consecutive impeachments (that would pass since they would control both cabinets)

Or are there some safeguards in place for this or is it just "no one would ever do it"/"It's against unwritten rules" type of safeguards.

There was a theory that, if the "red wave" had actually happened in November and the Republicans gained a strong majority in the House and Senate, they could elect Trump as Speaker (the Speaker isn't actually required to be a member of the House), impeach President Biden and Vice President Harris, and put Trump back in power.
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Old 14th January 2023, 05:51 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why would they want to? Why would it matter? The Vice Presidency is almost entirely inconsequential.
Seems a strange thing to claim in the context of a president resigning and being replaced by a vice-president. Itís not really inconsequential if that in that event.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The worst thing that could possibly happen without a Vice President is that the Senate would be unable to pass a highly contentious, polarizing, divisive bill by a single vote. And that is fine with me. Forcing things half of everyone doesn't want, by the slimmest of margins, is not such a great idea anyway.
Well, thatís not really the case. Half of Senators might oppose something on partisan lines, but it makes sense that you can have a tie breaker based on the publicís choice (*) of President.

Anyway, I would expect the GOP to do all they can to block whomever is chosen as Dem VP (and for what it is worth, for Dems to do the same if it were a Republican in the White House).
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Old 14th January 2023, 07:31 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Impeachment is the equivalent of an indictment. It requires a majority vote of the House. But conviction in the Senate requires a two-thirds vote. It's very unlikely that one side or another would control 67 votes.
But it would be a great squirrel for conservatives to bark at while the GOP ***** them out of all their remaining wealth and privatizes air and sunshine.
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Old 15th January 2023, 12:48 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Blank View Post
Can the House block the appointment?
No. The choice of Veep is exclusively in the purview of POTUS.
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Old 15th January 2023, 12:51 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
How functional would a Harris -McCarthy administration be? Seriously how would that even work?
It wouldn't because it won't happen.

And in any case, Biden is not going to resign over a nothingburger.
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Old 15th January 2023, 01:24 AM   #39
Bob001
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No. The choice of Veep is exclusively in the purview of POTUS.
Well, POTUS's nominee has to be confirmed by both houses of Congress. A majority Repub House or Senate could refuse to confirm, just to throw sand in the gears.
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Old 15th January 2023, 01:26 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Well, POTUS's nominee has to be confirmed by both houses of Congress. A majority Repub House or Senate could refuse to confirm, just to throw sand in the gears.
...and then complain bitterly about how the Democrats refused to compromise on a solution acceptable to both parties - for example reinstalling Donald Trump as President with Marjorie Taylor Greene as veep.
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