is the president your leader?

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 06:45 AM

I never understood the notion that the president leads the country. I just don't take any cues from the president and don't know many who do.

He certainly leads the executive branch. But government isn't the country (unless you are fascist). And he certainly has a role in creating and enforcing laws....but when a cop pull me over they are not my leader.

So, who is being led?

arayder · 16th January 2023, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I never understood the notion that the president leads the country. I just don't take any cues from the president and don't know many who do.

He certainly leads the executive branch. But government isn't the country (unless you are fascist). And he certainly has a role in creating and enforcing laws....but when a cop pull me over they are not my leader.

So, who is being led?

What do you mean by "leader"?

Darat · 16th January 2023, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I never understood the notion that the president leads the country. I just don't take any cues from the president and don't know many who do.

He certainly leads the executive branch. But government isn't the country (unless you are fascist). And he certainly has a role in creating and enforcing laws....but when a cop pull me over they are not my leader.

So, who is being led?

Seems to be a semantic confusion you have between the different uses of the word "leader".

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by arayder

What do you mean by "leader"?

noun
noun: leader; plural noun: leaders
1.
the person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country.

I don't think he leads or commands the country, but maybe I am wrong?

Upchurch · 16th January 2023, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I don't think he leads or commands the country, but maybe I am wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. He leads one of three co-equal branches of the US Government, but he is also responsible to the electorate and takes some guidance from us (or isn’t re-elected)

Hope that helps.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Yes, you are wrong. He leads one of three co-equal branches of the US Government, but he is also responsible to the electorate and takes some guidance from us (or isn’t re-elected)

Hope that helps.

That doesn't sound like the description of a leader of a country

Darat · 16th January 2023, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

That doesn't sound like ~~the~~ my description of a leader of a country

FTFY

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

FTFY

no, I mean "the"

I am looking at the definition of leader and "to lead" and I don't see the applicability

Upchurch · 16th January 2023, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

That doesn't sound like the description of a leader of a country

Because he’s not the sole leader of the country. That’s what I’m saying.

There is no sole leader of the US.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Because he’s not the sole leader of the country. That’s what I’m saying.

There is no sole leader of the US.

Is he even "A" leader?

Upchurch · 16th January 2023, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Is he even "A" leader?

Yes

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Yes

How? How does what you describe make him a leader of the country?

Upchurch · 16th January 2023, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

How? How does what you describe make him a leader of the country?

He is the final part of the process in creating laws. He is in charge of enforcing laws. He is responsible responsible for controlling military action.

Those are all leadership positions.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

He is the final part of the process in creating laws. He is in charge of enforcing laws. He is responsible responsible for controlling military action.

Those are all leadership positions.

Of the executive branch and the federal government.

But the government isn't the country

I'm in a leadership position. I'm not a leader of the country

Upchurch · 16th January 2023, 07:17 AM

Aside from reviewing Elementary school civics basics, what is the point of this thread?

TragicMonkey · 16th January 2023, 07:17 AM

Depends on what you mean by leading. In situations where one singular individual is tasked to speak for the whole country then yes, it would be the current president. But if you're asking whether ordinary citizens would follow orders from the president the answer is no. I'm not in the military and I'm not employed by any branch of the government, if the president showed up in the grocery store I shop at and ordered me to do something I certainly don't have to obey. The last loaf of jalapeno cheddar bread goes to whoever got it first, I don't care what their job title is. Mmmmm, that's good bread.

Upchurch · 16th January 2023, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Of the executive branch and the federal government.

But the government isn't the country

Yes, that is what I said.

Darat · 16th January 2023, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

no, I mean "the"

I am looking at the definition of leader and "to lead" and I don't see the applicability

You seem to have forgotten how you started the thread - you asked and it is in the title of your thread "is the president your leader?" You did not ask is "The president the leader?"

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

You seem to have forgotten how you started the thread - you asked and it is in the title of your thread "is the president your leader?" You did not ask is "The president the leader?"

And you seem to lost track of what "the" applied to. It wasn't describing leader but the word definition

Darat · 16th January 2023, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

And you seem to lost track of what "the" applied to. It wasn't describing leader but the word definition

Nope - you are confusing yourself.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Depends on what you mean by leading. In situations where one singular individual is tasked to speak for the whole country then yes, it would be the current president.

But does he do that? He is really only speaking for the US government, which isnt the country. The fact that other governments care about the US government doesn't make the government the country.

Darat · 16th January 2023, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

But does he do that? He is really only speaking for the US government, which isnt the country. The fact that other governments care about the US government doesn't make the government the country.

And? How does this relate to your question "is the president your leader?"

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

And? How does this relate to your question "is the president your leader?"

It is greatly assisting me in learning the answer and tragicmonkey is giving me a lot to think about. I'm exploring the topic.

TragicMonkey · 16th January 2023, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

But does he do that? He is really only speaking for the US government, which isnt the country. The fact that other governments care about the US government doesn't make the government the country.

One of the functions of a government is to act on behalf of the collective entity that is the people that comprise the political unit, in this case a nation. What percentage of that collective agrees with the actions of that government may be a moral concern but it does not change the function.

(Please note I'm using the term "government" to mean the entirety of the mechanism which is the associated persons tasked with and empowered to run the various functions of the agencies and bodies that administer and perform tasks for the collective under the specific authority of the collective granted, not "government" in the sense of a particular set of cabinet ministers installed by the current party controlling a parliament. This came up before with Claus Larsen pretending to mistake the meaning of the word when I used it and I am still full of scorn for him over that.)

Darat · 16th January 2023, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

It is greatly assisting me in learning the answer and tragicmonkey is giving me a lot to think about. I'm exploring the topic.

Either you consider the president your leader or you don't, there is not much to think about.

As I said the problem you have is merely a semantic misunderstanding i.e. that you are confusing your own personal definition of what a leader has to be with how other people use the term.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Either you consider the president your leader or you don't, there is not much to think about.

As I said the problem you have is merely a semantic misunderstanding i.e. that you are confusing your own personal definition of what a leader has to be with how other people use the term.

As I said, I don't have a different definition from other people. And talking to tragic monkey, we agree on what constitutes a leader. The question is whether what the president leads can then be described as the country

Darat · 16th January 2023, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

...snip.... This came up before with Claus Larsen pretending to mistake the meaning of the word when I used it and I am still full of scorn for him over that.)

That just reminded me as to why I sometimes use the term "governance" rather than government when talking about the entirety of how a country is governed.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

One of the functions of a government is to act on behalf of the collective entity that is the people that comprise the political unit, in this case a nation. What percentage of that collective agrees with the actions of that government may be a moral concern but it does not change the function.

(Please note I'm using the term "government" to mean the entirety of the mechanism which is the associated persons tasked with and empowered to run the various functions of the agencies and bodies that administer and perform tasks for the collective under the specific authority of the collective granted, not "government" in the sense of a particular set of cabinet ministers installed by the current party controlling a parliament. This came up before with Claus Larsen pretending to mistake the meaning of the word when I used it and I am still full of scorn for him over that.)

If I employ a law firm, the lawyer directs and speaks for the firm. He leads the firm. But he is not leading me, he is the agent. In your example, the president is leading the government and the government is the agent of the country.

Upchurch · 16th January 2023, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

That just reminded me as to why I sometimes use the term "governance" rather than government when talking about the entirety of how a country is governed.

I had a similar conversation that required differentiating between a Christian county and a Christian state.

sackett · 16th January 2023, 08:26 AM

BobTheCoward says, "I never understood...."

Now Bob, I cautioned you in another thread not ever to try to understand what you don't understand. It just leads you into conundrums, conflations, conflagrations, contusiuons, cominglings, confabulations, cabbages, and kings. Leave it alone. It's not good for you and other living things.

gabeygoat · 16th January 2023, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

....but when a cop pull me over they are not my leader.

They led you to stop on the side of the road, presumably to lead you to conform to laws

Darat · 16th January 2023, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

As I said, I don't have a different definition from other people. And talking to tragic monkey, we agree on what constitutes a leader. The question is whether what the president leads can then be described as the country

You do have a different definition as you would otherwise have the same answer as Tragicmonkey.

Darat · 16th January 2023, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

If I employ a law firm, the lawyer directs and speaks for the firm. He leads the firm. But he is not leading me, he is the agent. In your example, the president is leading the government and the government is the agent of the country.

I suppose a one bit legal firm she might be the only owner so she could be said to be the leader of her company but if the lawyer's firm is not structured in such a why so she manages the law firm and dictates what happens then your particular lawyer is not the leader of the law firm.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

You do have a different definition as you would otherwise have the same answer as Tragicmonkey.

I think the disagreement is over the relationship between the government and the country.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

I suppose a one bit legal firm she might be the only owner so she could be said to be the leader of her company but if the lawyer's firm is not structured in such a why so she manages the law firm and dictates what happens then your particular lawyer is not the leader of the law firm.

I ain't affording any lawyer that isn't by themselves on a billboard

Darat · 16th January 2023, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I think the disagreement is over the relationship between the government and the country.

Then you are using a different definition to Tragicmonkey, as I said.

BobTheCoward · 16th January 2023, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Then you are using a different definition to Tragicmonkey, as I said.

not on leader

Craig4 · 16th January 2023, 09:26 AM

The president directs the policy and execution of the will of Congress given to the Executive Branch of the United States. He leads the branch of government over which he is in charge. He does not lead the people but through the agencies of the Executive regulates what they do in so far as he is allowed by Congress.

Darat · 16th January 2023, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

not on leader

Yes you are - else you would agree with him.

arayder · 16th January 2023, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

noun
noun: leader; plural noun: leaders
1.
the person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country.

I don't think he leads or commands the country, but maybe I am wrong?

Oh, please. The old trick of cherry picking definition. Maybe the President is a later in another sense of the word?

16th January 2023, 06:45 AM	#1
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	is the president your leader? I never understood the notion that the president leads the country. I just don't take any cues from the president and don't know many who do. He certainly leads the executive branch. But government isn't the country (unless you are fascist). And he certainly has a role in creating and enforcing laws....but when a cop pull me over they are not my leader. So, who is being led?
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 06:53 AM	#2
arayder Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,344	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I never understood the notion that the president leads the country. I just don't take any cues from the president and don't know many who do. He certainly leads the executive branch. But government isn't the country (unless you are fascist). And he certainly has a role in creating and enforcing laws....but when a cop pull me over they are not my leader. So, who is being led? What do you mean by "leader"?
arayder Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,344

16th January 2023, 06:56 AM	#3
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I never understood the notion that the president leads the country. I just don't take any cues from the president and don't know many who do. He certainly leads the executive branch. But government isn't the country (unless you are fascist). And he certainly has a role in creating and enforcing laws....but when a cop pull me over they are not my leader. So, who is being led? Seems to be a semantic confusion you have between the different uses of the word "leader".
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16th January 2023, 06:56 AM	#4
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by arayder What do you mean by "leader"? noun noun: leader; plural noun: leaders 1. the person who leads or commands a group, organization, or country. I don't think he leads or commands the country, but maybe I am wrong?
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:03 AM	#5
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 33,430	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I don't think he leads or commands the country, but maybe I am wrong? Yes, you are wrong. He leads one of three co-equal branches of the US Government, but he is also responsible to the electorate and takes some guidance from us (or isn’t re-elected) Hope that helps.
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

16th January 2023, 07:04 AM	#6
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Upchurch Yes, you are wrong. He leads one of three co-equal branches of the US Government, but he is also responsible to the electorate and takes some guidance from us (or isn’t re-elected) Hope that helps. That doesn't sound like the description of a leader of a country
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:05 AM	#7
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward That doesn't sound like ~~the~~ my description of a leader of a country FTFY
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16th January 2023, 07:06 AM	#8
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Darat FTFY no, I mean "the" I am looking at the definition of leader and "to lead" and I don't see the applicability
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:07 AM	#9
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 33,430	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward That doesn't sound like the description of a leader of a country Because he’s not the sole leader of the country. That’s what I’m saying. There is no sole leader of the US.
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

16th January 2023, 07:08 AM	#10
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Upchurch Because he’s not the sole leader of the country. That’s what I’m saying. There is no sole leader of the US. Is he even "A" leader?
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:11 AM	#11
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 33,430	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Is he even "A" leader? Yes
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

16th January 2023, 07:13 AM	#12
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Upchurch Yes How? How does what you describe make him a leader of the country?
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:16 AM	#13
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 33,430	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward How? How does what you describe make him a leader of the country? He is the final part of the process in creating laws. He is in charge of enforcing laws. He is responsible responsible for controlling military action. Those are all leadership positions.
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

16th January 2023, 07:16 AM	#14
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Upchurch He is the final part of the process in creating laws. He is in charge of enforcing laws. He is responsible responsible for controlling military action. Those are all leadership positions. Of the executive branch and the federal government. But the government isn't the country I'm in a leadership position. I'm not a leader of the country
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Last edited by BobTheCoward; 16th January 2023 at 07:18 AM.

16th January 2023, 07:17 AM	#15
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 33,430	Aside from reviewing Elementary school civics basics, what is the point of this thread?
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

16th January 2023, 07:17 AM	#16
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 64,839	Depends on what you mean by leading. In situations where one singular individual is tasked to speak for the whole country then yes, it would be the current president. But if you're asking whether ordinary citizens would follow orders from the president the answer is no. I'm not in the military and I'm not employed by any branch of the government, if the president showed up in the grocery store I shop at and ordered me to do something I certainly don't have to obey. The last loaf of jalapeno cheddar bread goes to whoever got it first, I don't care what their job title is. Mmmmm, that's good bread.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

16th January 2023, 07:18 AM	#17
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 33,430	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Of the executive branch and the federal government. But the government isn't the country Yes, that is what I said.
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

16th January 2023, 07:20 AM	#18
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward no, I mean "the" I am looking at the definition of leader and "to lead" and I don't see the applicability You seem to have forgotten how you started the thread - you asked and it is in the title of your thread "is the president *your* leader?" You did not ask is "The president the leader?"
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16th January 2023, 07:22 AM	#19
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Darat You seem to have forgotten how you started the thread - you asked and it is in the title of your thread "is the president *your* leader?" You did not ask is "The president the leader?" And you seem to lost track of what "the" applied to. It wasn't describing leader but the word definition
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:23 AM	#20
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward And you seem to lost track of what "the" applied to. It wasn't describing leader but the word definition Nope - you are confusing yourself.
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16th January 2023, 07:25 AM	#21
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Depends on what you mean by leading. In situations where one singular individual is tasked to speak for the whole country then yes, it would be the current president. But does he do that? He is really only speaking for the US government, which isnt the country. The fact that other governments care about the US government doesn't make the government the country.
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:26 AM	#22
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward But does he do that? He is really only speaking for the US government, which isnt the country. The fact that other governments care about the US government doesn't make the government the country. And? How does this relate to your question "is the president your leader?"
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16th January 2023, 07:30 AM	#23
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Darat And? How does this relate to your question "is the president your leader?" It is greatly assisting me in learning the answer and tragicmonkey is giving me a lot to think about. I'm exploring the topic.
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:34 AM	#24
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 64,839	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward But does he do that? He is really only speaking for the US government, which isnt the country. The fact that other governments care about the US government doesn't make the government the country. One of the functions of a government is to act on behalf of the collective entity that is the people that comprise the political unit, in this case a nation. What percentage of that collective agrees with the actions of that government may be a moral concern but it does not change the function. (Please note I'm using the term "government" to mean the entirety of the mechanism which is the associated persons tasked with and empowered to run the various functions of the agencies and bodies that administer and perform tasks for the collective under the specific authority of the collective granted, not "government" in the sense of a particular set of cabinet ministers installed by the current party controlling a parliament. This came up before with Claus Larsen pretending to mistake the meaning of the word when I used it and I am still full of scorn for him over that.)
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16th January 2023, 07:38 AM	#26
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Darat Either you consider the president your leader or you don't, there is not much to think about. As I said the problem you have is merely a semantic misunderstanding i.e. that you are confusing your own personal definition of what a leader has to be with how other people use the term. As I said, I don't have a different definition from other people. And talking to tragic monkey, we agree on what constitutes a leader. The question is whether what the president leads can then be described as the country
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:40 AM	#27
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey ...snip.... This came up before with Claus Larsen pretending to mistake the meaning of the word when I used it and I am still full of scorn for him over that.) That just reminded me as to why I sometimes use the term "governance" rather than government when talking about the entirety of how a country is governed.
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16th January 2023, 07:47 AM	#28
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey One of the functions of a government is to act on behalf of the collective entity that is the people that comprise the political unit, in this case a nation. What percentage of that collective agrees with the actions of that government may be a moral concern but it does not change the function. (Please note I'm using the term "government" to mean the entirety of the mechanism which is the associated persons tasked with and empowered to run the various functions of the agencies and bodies that administer and perform tasks for the collective under the specific authority of the collective granted, not "government" in the sense of a particular set of cabinet ministers installed by the current party controlling a parliament. This came up before with Claus Larsen pretending to mistake the meaning of the word when I used it and I am still full of scorn for him over that.) If I employ a law firm, the lawyer directs and speaks for the firm. He leads the firm. But he is not leading me, he is the agent. In your example, the president is leading the government and the government is the agent of the country.
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 07:47 AM	#29
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 33,430	Originally Posted by Darat That just reminded me as to why I sometimes use the term "governance" rather than government when talking about the entirety of how a country is governed. I had a similar conversation that required differentiating between a Christian county and a Christian state.
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

16th January 2023, 08:26 AM	#30
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,160	BobTheCoward says, "I never understood...." Now Bob, I cautioned you in another thread not ever to try to understand what you don't understand. It just leads you into conundrums, conflations, conflagrations, contusiuons, cominglings, confabulations, cabbages, and kings. Leave it alone. It's not good for you and other living things.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

16th January 2023, 08:32 AM	#31
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon Posts: 1,619	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward ....but when a cop pull me over they are not my leader. They led you to stop on the side of the road, presumably to lead you to conform to laws
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

16th January 2023, 08:36 AM	#32
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward As I said, I don't have a different definition from other people. And talking to tragic monkey, we agree on what constitutes a leader. The question is whether what the president leads can then be described as the country You do have a different definition as you would otherwise have the same answer as Tragicmonkey.
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16th January 2023, 08:40 AM	#33
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward If I employ a law firm, the lawyer directs and speaks for the firm. He leads the firm. But he is not leading me, he is the agent. In your example, the president is leading the government and the government is the agent of the country. I suppose a one bit legal firm she might be the only owner so she could be said to be the leader of her company but if the lawyer's firm is not structured in such a why so she manages the law firm and dictates what happens then your particular lawyer is not the leader of the law firm.
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16th January 2023, 08:43 AM	#34
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Darat You do have a different definition as you would otherwise have the same answer as Tragicmonkey. I think the disagreement is over the relationship between the government and the country.
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 08:44 AM	#35
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789	Originally Posted by Darat I suppose a one bit legal firm she might be the only owner so she could be said to be the leader of her company but if the lawyer's firm is not structured in such a why so she manages the law firm and dictates what happens then your particular lawyer is not the leader of the law firm. I ain't affording any lawyer that isn't by themselves on a billboard
BobTheCoward Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 22,789

16th January 2023, 08:45 AM	#36
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,880	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward I think the disagreement is over the relationship between the government and the country. Then you are using a different definition to Tragicmonkey, as I said.
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