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Old 22nd September 2018, 02:04 AM   #1881
Henri McPhee
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The Luftwaffe were expecting a short war and Churchill with his lack of appeasement, and with the support of the too slow Gloster Gladiators in the RAF, was expecting it to be all over by Christmas. They were both wrong.
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Old 22nd September 2018, 05:15 AM   #1882
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The Luftwaffe were expecting a short war and Churchill with his lack of appeasement, and with the support of the too slow Gloster Gladiators in the RAF, was expecting it to be all over by Christmas. They were both wrong.
Really?
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Old 22nd September 2018, 05:16 AM   #1883
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That's your summary of the thread so far?
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Old 22nd September 2018, 07:54 AM   #1884
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It's as uncannily accurate as any of his other posts.
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Old 22nd September 2018, 04:05 PM   #1885
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The Luftwaffe were expecting a short war and Churchill with his lack of appeasement, and with the support of the too slow Gloster Gladiators in the RAF, was expecting it to be all over by Christmas. They were both wrong.
Henri goes for a fringe reset, looses the ball, hits himself in the head with his left ankle and knocks himself out of bounds.

Fail
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Old 22nd September 2018, 05:41 PM   #1886
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The Luftwaffe were expecting a short war and Churchill with his lack of appeasement, and with the support of the too slow Gloster Gladiators in the RAF, was expecting it to be all over by Christmas. They were both wrong.

[citation needed]

Further, what part of "The Gladiator was fast enough to catch the He 111, and in any case the RAF already had four Hurricane squadrons operational" was unclear?
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Old 23rd September 2018, 09:39 AM   #1887
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The Luftwaffe were expecting a short war and Churchill with his lack of appeasement, and with the support of the too slow Gloster Gladiators in the RAF, was expecting it to be all over by Christmas. They were both wrong.
Quote your source for this extraordinary claim because it matches with none of what I've read on the topic. The Wehrmacht believed it would be a disaster to got to war in 1938 according to the research presented by Adam Tooze in 'Wages of Destruction'. By Christmas still isn't 'in a week' or are you abandoning that claim now? Oh and again Churchill was a backbench MP in 1938, please stop these dishonest claims about him being in power then.


In short another random collection of nonsense from Henri.
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Old 24th September 2018, 02:50 PM   #1888
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There is an article about appeasement by an academic historian which may be too academic for this forum and not quite true at:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...92290802344962

Quote:
It was someone no less than Winston Churchill who, at the time of the outbreak of the Korean War in 1950, declared in Parliament: “Appeasement in itself may be good or bad according to the circumstances. Appeasement from weakness and fear is alike futile and fatal. Appeasement from strength is magnanimous and noble, and might be the surest and perhaps the only path to world peace.”

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 24th September 2018 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 24th September 2018, 02:58 PM   #1889
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There is an article about appeasement by an academic historian which may be too academic for this forum and not quite true at:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...92290802344962
Did you even read the article Henri?

Quote:
It has from time to time been suggested that the incidence of the appeasement/Munich analogy will decline as the generation of public figures with some experience or memory of the period passed from the scene.
That prediction appears increasingly untenable. Moreover, contrary to the view once expressed by this writer that the appeasement debate was over, or that it is “an ongoing one and historians change their minds,” or to argue that there have been “too many mystifications” by historians, it is abundantly clear that “appeasement studies” have a bright future.
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Old 24th September 2018, 02:59 PM   #1890
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Did you even read the article Henri?
It was too academic
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 25th September 2018, 08:46 AM   #1891
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Did you even read the article Henri?
I don't entirely agree with what he wrote about Chamberlain. I would have done exactly the same as Chamberlain if I was in his shoes, except that I would not have cut the unemployment dole in the early 1930s. I have always been under the impression that the Suez crisis was 1956 though I suppose it was late 1956 and the effects were felt in 1957, as he writes. America, or Eisenhower, threatened sanctions, and the Russians were threatening rockets thanks to the Edenites.

This bit makes sense to me:

Quote:
Time and again politicians, diplomats and commentators have focused on the 1930s to argue that effective deterrence and resistance at an early stage obviates the need for armed resistance later. Their rhetoric is consistent: appeasement simply will not do. In the run up to the Gulf War that opened on 1 January 1991, for example, then President George H. W. Bush declared: “If history teaches us anything, it is that we must resist aggression or it will destroy our freedoms. Appeasement does not work. As was seen in the 1930s, we see in Saddam Hussein an aggressive dictator threatening his neighbours.” 1

1. The Times, 9 August 1990. It was reported at the time that Bush was reading Martin Gilbert, The Second World War (London, 1989) and cited Winston Churchill's view that the second world war could have been averted had Hitler's re-occupation of the Rhineland been resisted in 1936. Time, 7 January 1991, p. 21.
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On 28 February 2003, on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, British Prime Minister Tony Blair declared that “The lesson we learnt [in the 1930s] was that if, confronted by a threat, we back away because we assume that our good and peaceful intentions are matched by those threatening us, the threat only grows and at a later time has to be confronted again, but in far more deadly and dangerous form.” 2

2. The Times, 1 March 2003.
View all notes
Speaking to the Israeli Knesset on 15 May 2008, President George W. Bush derided “the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history.” 3

3. View all notes
If the lessons for politicians seemed straightforward enough, why have historians had so much trouble with the study of appeasement? If historians have it right, then why have the lessons of history been so ignored by practitioners? If historians have it wrong, or cannot come to any consensus, as the historiography of appeasement suggested for many decades, then can public policy be faulted for clinging to the enduring legacy?

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 25th September 2018 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 25th September 2018, 12:23 PM   #1892
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I don't entirely agree with what he wrote about Chamberlain. I would have done exactly the same as Chamberlain if I was in his shoes, except that I would not have cut the unemployment dole in the early 1930s. I have always been under the impression that the Suez crisis was 1956 though I suppose it was late 1956 and the effects were felt in 1957, as he writes. America, or Eisenhower, threatened sanctions, and the Russians were threatening rockets thanks to the Edenites.

This bit makes sense to me:
Apparently the quote that makes sense to you is totally against appeasement.

So - you've changed your mind have you?
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Old 25th September 2018, 01:32 PM   #1893
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I bet he hasn't, I'm not even sure he reads what he posts. Just Googles key words, copy paste.
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Old 25th September 2018, 02:11 PM   #1894
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I bet he hasn't, I'm not even sure he reads what he posts. Just Googles key words, copy paste.
I'm sure you're correct.
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