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Old 12th October 2018, 10:48 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's what, to me at least, has been so oddly (and disturbingly) fascinating about the recent spat of racial encounters we've been seeing in the news.

Calling the police on black guest at a pool, or a black girl with a lemonade stand, or a black guy babysitting a couple of white kids isn't just racist. It's almost like... chip in your shoulder racism. Like "I'm both racist and I want it to manifest it in a way that is absolutely certain to be newsworthy."
I think that works both ways, though. Once this issue of race comes up, a surprising amount of people become.unhinged. The harassed person is black? Absolutely no question, it is racially motivated. No other possible options. That's a little fascinating, too.
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Old 12th October 2018, 10:48 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Jumping straight to kidnapping is quite the logical leap. We live in a world where step parents and nannies take care of children that may or may not be of the same race. I wonder if this lady would have had her freakout if it was an elderly Hispanic woman driving around two white children.

I suspect that him being man was more "suspicious" than him being black, but I'm sure that only compounded things. Sexism strikes again. Childrearing is still seen my many as "women's work", so a man taking care of children, even if they are his own children, is often seen as strange. Plenty of cases of police being called on "strange men" hanging out around parks and playgrounds that turn out to be just some dad being a dad to his children.

Thirty years ago when they were those ages I drove my two around all the time, took them into stores, to the park, even went hiking and camping with them. And this was in the South.

Never had the cops called on me even once.

Could it be because I was the same color as they were?

Probably.
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Old 12th October 2018, 10:54 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
RE: OP. Busybody calls cops on dude she sees in Wal-Mart. He assumes it is because he is black. Could it be because she was just a paranoid weirdo that picked him as a target because of something else he did or said? I think it could. A weirdo that stalks you is kind of by definition not all there. The cop did plus or minus what a cop should do, check a report out as thoroughly as he can on the spot. I certainly hope she does have to publicly account for her actions, although she would probably say he was acting weird, rather than she was.

Could it have been motivated by racism or bigotry? Of course. Is there any reason to be confident that it was Ms. Creepshow's motivation? Not really.

But assume she was: what is the takeaway? There's a racist weirdo in America. Yeah, we got 'em by the boatload.

You answered your own question. I highlighted the answer for you.

Quote:
Does anyone seriously deny this?

Apparently you posted in this thread without reading it.
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Old 12th October 2018, 10:56 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Thirty years ago when they were those ages I drove my two around all the time, took them into stores, to the park, even went hiking and camping with them. And this was in the South.

Never had the cops called on me even once.

Could it be because I was the same color as they were?

Probably.
FWIW, I was once loudly and publicly questioned if I had any business with my children who I was picking up after work. In fairness, they were neatly dressed and I looked like something that crawled out from under a rock, hustling them into a utility van (with a rear bench seat). The lady took my kids word for it that I was daddy picking them up.
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Old 12th October 2018, 10:56 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well that's my question really: is it the 'black' part or the 'man' part that has more weight? If they work only in combination, is it really 'racist'?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm on board with what she did being wrong and her motivations possibly being racists but.... how is what she did "actually racist"?

Because if the man had not been black it is a virtual certainty that she wouldn't have stalked him and called the cops.
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Old 12th October 2018, 10:58 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
FWIW, I was once loudly and publicly questioned if I had any business with my children who I was picking up after work. In fairness, they were neatly dressed and I looked like something that crawled out from under a rock, hustling them into a utility van (with a rear bench seat). The lady took my kids word for it that I was daddy picking them up.

In other words, no problems

... and no cops.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:00 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
You answered your own question. I highlighted the answer for you.
Yeah. Good job catching that.

Quote:
Apparently you posted in this thread without reading it.
I give up. What did I miss?
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:01 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
In other words, no problems

... and no cops.
Right. Some weirdos call cops and some don't.

Felt like a problem for me at the time.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:05 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
<snip>

I give up. What did I miss?

People denying this.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:07 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
In other words, no problems
No problems at all, aside from being publicly suspected of being a paedophile.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:10 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Right. Some weirdos call cops and some don't.

I don't think that someone in that environment calming and casually (as you described it) checking on the welfare of a couple of kids is being a weirdo.

Stalking and calling the cops? Yeah. Weirdo. (Your choice of word.)

Doing that because the man was a different skin color than the kids? Racist.

Quote:

Felt like a problem for me at the time.

That would be your hang-up.

I don't mind that strangers are paying attention to the welfare of other kids.

As long as they aren't being a weirdo or a racist about it.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:14 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Because if the man had not been black it is a virtual certainty that she wouldn't have stalked him and called the cops.
That's her being racist, though.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:14 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
No problems at all, aside from being publicly suspected of being a paedophile.

The woman was satisfied when the kids said he was their daddy. How would that eliminate the possibility that he was a pedophile?

Most children who are molested are molested by family members or friends. If he had been a stranger the odds of that would have been lower.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:16 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That's her being racist, though.

That's right. Who did you think we were referring to?
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:24 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I don't think that someone in that environment calming and casually (as you described it) checking on the welfare of a couple of kids is being a weirdo.

Stalking and calling the cops? Yeah. Weirdo. (Your choice of word.)
The what's this now? I said it was loud and public, as in yelling 'WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING WITH THOSE GIRLS?' Where did you get 'calmly and casually'?

Quote:
Doing that because the man was a different skin color than the kids? Racist.
You sure that was the reason?

Quote:
That would be your hang-up.

I don't mind that strangers are paying attention to the welfare of other kids.

As long as they aren't being a weirdo or a racist about it.
I found a random woman screaming accusations at me out of the blue weird, yes. I guess that's a hang up of mine.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:35 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The woman was satisfied when the kids said he was their daddy. How would that eliminate the possibility that he was a pedophile?
That doesn't make it better, does it?
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:44 AM   #97
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I kept trying to get strangers in the park to take my kids so I could go home and get some work done. Nobody ever called the cops on me.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:50 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
That's right. Who did you think we were referring to?
Well, perhaps what I was responding to.

Calling the police is not racist. It's the reasons behind doing so that may be. Johnny used the 'fact' that what she did was 'actually' racist to conclude that she was, in fact, racist. But the act itself is not racist, so he's short-circuiting the whole process of determining her intent.
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Old 12th October 2018, 11:59 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm on board with what she did being wrong and her motivations possibly being racists but.... how is what she did "actually racist"?
Well, I think we’re wandering into Schrodinger’s Racist territory here, but if you can point to a reasonable justification for this woman to call the cops that didn’t involve the man’s race, I’ll reconsider my position
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:00 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's fine. Let's go with your worse case scenario; she's a racist.

From this thread we've learned that there exists, in America, today, a woman with racist views. I think we can both agree it's been worth the effort to bring this shocking revelation into the light.
Almost worth as much as the effort you put into making excuses for a racist.
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:03 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
FWIW, I was once loudly and publicly questioned if I had any business with my children who I was picking up after work. In fairness, they were neatly dressed and I looked like something that crawled out from under a rock, hustling them into a utility van (with a rear bench seat). The lady took my kids word for it that I was daddy picking them up.
The highlighted indicate reasonable justifications for a person with good intentions to express concern for a child’s safety.
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:06 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Well, I think we’re wandering into Schrodinger’s Racist territory here, but if you can point to a reasonable justification for this woman to call the cops that didn’t involve the man’s race, I’ll reconsider my position
We don't know the run-up, as usual, but is this scenario plausible:

Lewis is being somewhat polite and formal with the kids (naturally, as he is not their parent). The weirdo woman takes that to mean he does not know the kids, and asks if they are alright, as reported. He responds, as reported, with 'why wouldn't they be?' which weirdo takes as hostile, and off to the races we go.

Is this plausible?
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:08 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
The highlighted indicate reasonable justifications for a person with good intentions to express concern for a child’s safety.
Somewhat agreed. Contractors have kids, too.
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:08 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
We don't know the run-up, as usual, but is this scenario plausible:

Lewis is being somewhat polite and formal with the kids (naturally, as he is not their parent). The weirdo woman takes that to mean he does not know the kids, and asks if they are alright, as reported. He responds, as reported, with 'why wouldn't they be?' which weirdo takes as hostile, and off to the races we go.

Is this plausible?
I believe the request was to "point to a reasonable justification." Going on a hypothetical flight of fancy doesn't count.
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:19 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
We don't know the run-up, as usual, but is this scenario plausible:

Lewis is being somewhat polite and formal with the kids (naturally, as he is not their parent). The weirdo woman takes that to mean he does not know the kids, and asks if they are alright, as reported. He responds, as reported, with 'why wouldn't they be?' which weirdo takes as hostile, and off to the races we go.

Is this plausible?
What Babbylonian said.
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Old 12th October 2018, 12:31 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Almost worth as much as the effort you put into making excuses for a racist.
Very true. If you need any more far left hysteria countered you know where to find me.
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Old 12th October 2018, 01:07 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Very true. If you need any more far left hysteria countered you know where to find me.
But what if I want it done competently?
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Old 12th October 2018, 01:10 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But what if I want it done competently?
You pay me too.
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Old 12th October 2018, 01:20 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well, perhaps what I was responding to.

Calling the police is not racist. It's the reasons behind doing so that may be. Johnny used the 'fact' that what she did was 'actually' racist to conclude that she was, in fact, racist. But the act itself is not racist, so he's short-circuiting the whole process of determining her intent.

That's some remarkably thin slicing of a distinction without a difference.

Do you think she would have called the cops if she wasn't racist?

The act is informed by the reasons.

Trying to separate them as you are doing is evasive pedantry of the worst sort.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 12th October 2018 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 12th October 2018, 02:55 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Bob? Bob Ross?? Is that you???
My parents lied to me!!
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Old 12th October 2018, 02:59 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
We don't know the run-up, as usual, but is this scenario plausible:

Lewis is being somewhat polite and formal with the kids (naturally, as he is not their parent). The weirdo woman takes that to mean he does not know the kids, and asks if they are alright, as reported. He responds, as reported, with 'why wouldn't they be?' which weirdo takes as hostile, and off to the races we go.

Is this plausible?
The report also seems to be claiming that the babysitter refused to let the busybody speak to the children directly. Somewhat suspicious, but understandable considering that he likely was aware of why she was asking that in the first place.
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Old 12th October 2018, 03:38 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Since the children never exhibited any signs of distress, that the only thing the woman could have observed that would make her "fear for the kids" was the fact that the driver was black and they weren't is a perfectly reasonable deduction and in fact the most logical based on information in-hand.
I think this is the deciding factor.

I had to think about this one, since I can understand how a "black" guy with "white" kids may seem odd. That's partly cultural, partly genetic, and so on and so on. THis isn't like most videos we see, of some white person freaking out and calling the cops because some black or Hispanic person is just doing normal things.

But once the kids themselves speak up, let it go.

(Also, who does child trafficking in the open, aside from the current US administration, these days?)
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Old 12th October 2018, 03:39 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The report also seems to be claiming that the babysitter refused to let the busybody speak to the children directly. Somewhat suspicious,
Suspicious? Surely not. After all, he's babysitting them, so he's responsible for their safety. Assuming he's taking that responsibility seriously, I would say letting the stalky crazy-person have access to them should be off the menu in that situation, as an absolute minimum.
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Old 12th October 2018, 03:39 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The report also seems to be claiming that the babysitter refused to let the busybody speak to the children directly. Somewhat suspicious, but understandable considering that he likely was aware of why she was asking that in the first place.
I find her request to speak to the children far more suspicious, especially given the report that she went away and then came back to make that request. My specific suspicion? She was looking for what she considered an adequate excuse to call the police. After all, who wouldn't let a strange lady interrogate children who are showing no sign of distress, especially if she's white? Even assuming her aberrant behavior was a result of a genuine feeling of concern, there's no indication at all that her concern was reasonable.

If I saw a bawling little kid in a store with an adult, I wouldn't feel any particular concern. Unless I saw something else, like the adult hitting the kid, I'd assume that s/he was crying because s/he wanted something that s/he wasn't being given. "Mom, can I have <x>? Why not? Billy has one! Waaaaaah!"
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Old 12th October 2018, 05:18 PM   #115
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I find her request to speak to the children far more suspicious, especially given the report that she went away and then came back to make that request. My specific suspicion? She was looking for what she considered an adequate excuse to call the police. After all, who wouldn't let a strange lady interrogate children who are showing no sign of distress, especially if she's white? Even assuming her aberrant behavior was a result of a genuine feeling of concern, there's no indication at all that her concern was reasonable.

If I saw a bawling little kid in a store with an adult, I wouldn't feel any particular concern. Unless I saw something else, like the adult hitting the kid, I'd assume that s/he was crying because s/he wanted something that s/he wasn't being given. "Mom, can I have <x>? Why not? Billy has one! Waaaaaah!"
And the babysitter willingly provided her the excuse she was looking for.
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