ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 3rd May 2019, 12:35 PM   #1
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,637
Let's go to Mars!

Buzz Aldrin wants to go to Mars.
Quote:
The United Statesí eyes ó and our unified commitment ó should focus on opening the door, in our time, to the great migration of humankind to Mars.
https://www.elitedaily.com/p/who-is-...torney-7634019

How would that ever be a realistic possibility, let alone "in our time?"
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd May 2019, 12:41 PM   #2
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7,950
Totally possible, given enough money and expertise.

Desirable?
Probably not.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isnít.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd May 2019, 12:53 PM   #3
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34,000
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Buzz Aldrin wants to go to Mars.



https://www.elitedaily.com/p/who-is-seth-meyers-wife-alexi-ashe-is-a-human-rights-attorney-7634019

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.46ca1c638b0b


How would that ever be a realistic possibility, let alone "in our time?"
It's all in the weasel wording - "open the doors". You could argue that the Soviet experience with the Mir station and long duration manned missions got the ball rolling, and "opened the doors" "in our time".

But he probably means we should immediately begin a global crash program to launch a Mars Cycler or something like that.

Which might not actually be such a bad idea. Getting a few unmanned cyclers going now, and receiving maintenence and upgrades every time they swing by, would lay some basic groundwork for the more ambitious future plans.

Last edited by kmortis; 6th May 2019 at 08:27 AM. Reason: fixed link
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd May 2019, 01:09 PM   #4
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 24,552
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Buzz Aldrin wants to go to Mars.

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/who-is-...torney-7634019

How would that ever be a realistic possibility, let alone "in our time?"
Seth Meyer's wife ??? Pro tip - when you embed a link always click it after posting
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd May 2019, 03:32 PM   #5
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Seth Meyer's wife ??? Pro tip - when you embed a link always click it after posting
Sorry. Good amateur tip, too.

Here's the right link:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.46ca1c638b0b

Too late to fix above.

Hey Mods: Please fix if you can.

Last edited by Bob001; 3rd May 2019 at 03:33 PM.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd May 2019, 04:46 PM   #6
Red Baron Farms
Illuminator
 
Red Baron Farms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,636
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Getting a few unmanned cyclers going now, and receiving maintenence and upgrades every time they swing by, would lay some basic groundwork for the more ambitious future plans.
On the other thread I had it worked out very very roughly to approximately 1000 years needed to complete a Mars terraforming marginally suitable for human habitation.

Considering the likelihood of of our current civilization even lasting another 1000 years without a serious collapse between now and then is significant, I would think we should indeed get started as soon as possible.

Like we farmers say, "Make hay while the sun shines."

carpe diem
__________________
Scott
"Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison
Biome Carbon Cycle Management
Red Baron Farms is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd May 2019, 11:08 PM   #7
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,820
From that other thread I always thought that the better option would be to bunker on the moon while we reterraformed the earth.
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 06:14 AM   #8
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34,000
Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
From that other thread I always thought that the better option would be to bunker on the moon while we reterraformed the earth.
Depends what you're trying to do, and over what time frame. I think doing more stuff on Mars is great.

I think manned science missions right now are a waste of resources and should not be a priority in any current national space program.

I think a Mars colony to save the human race from the risk of terrestrial catastrophe is a wildly romantic and impossible idea, now and in the foreseeable future.

Do you disagree with any of that?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 06:23 AM   #9
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 24,552
Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
From that other thread I always thought that the better option would be to bunker on the moon while we reterraformed the earth.
However bad the Earth gets it'll still be a damn sight more hospitable than the Moon, so why bother?
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 09:48 AM   #10
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,854
Would artificial habitations in space be a better option? Less of a gravity well but of course no resources - - - build on an asteroid? Or on a small gravity place like Ceres?
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 10:49 AM   #11
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7,950
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Would artificial habitations in space be a better option? Less of a gravity well but of course no resources - - - build on an asteroid? Or on a small gravity place like Ceres?
going down a gravity well only makes sense if there is something useful down there.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isnít.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 11:00 AM   #12
jeremyp
Muse
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 633
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
However bad the Earth gets it'll still be a damn sight more hospitable than the Moon, so why bother?
Or Mars.
jeremyp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 12:57 PM   #13
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34,000
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Would artificial habitations in space be a better option? Less of a gravity well but of course no resources - - - build on an asteroid? Or on a small gravity place like Ceres?
Still no resources. Habitations in space only make sense if you have a massive industrial base that can effectively mine resource-dense gravity wells.

Given its magnetic field, atmosphere, biomass, and installed industrial base, Earth is going to be by far the best place to live while restoring the Earth. We're currently so far away from being able to recover from a true planetary cataclysm that there's really no point in even worrying about it right now. Check back in another 10,000 years or so. We might be able to bootstrap civilization without the Earth by that point, but I doubt it.

Last edited by theprestige; 4th May 2019 at 01:09 PM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 01:09 PM   #14
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34,000
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
going down a gravity well only makes sense if there is something useful down there.
And if it's actually cost-effective to try to use it.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 01:10 PM   #15
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 24,552
Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
Or Mars.
Yep. Using either place as a refuge is nuts.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 01:11 PM   #16
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 24,552
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Still no resources. Habitations in space only make sense if you have a massive industrial base that can effectively mine resource-dense gravity wells.

Given its magnetic field, atmosphere, biomass, and installed industrial base, Earth is going to be by far the best place to live while restoring the Earth. We're currently so far away from being able to recover from a true planetary cataclysm that there's really no point in even worrying about it right now. Check back in another 10,000 years or so. We might be able to bootstrap civilization without the Earth by that point, but I doubt it.
In a nutshell.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 05:50 PM   #17
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,820
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Depends what you're trying to do, and over what time frame. I think doing more stuff on Mars is great.

I think manned science missions right now are a waste of resources and should not be a priority in any current national space program.

I think a Mars colony to save the human race from the risk of terrestrial catastrophe is a wildly romantic and impossible idea, now and in the foreseeable future.

Do you disagree with any of that?
Well the OP was about migration to Mars, so I donít see how any of your statements disagree with mine? E.g., a Mars colony isnít feasible.
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 05:52 PM   #18
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,820
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
However bad the Earth gets it'll still be a damn sight more hospitable than the Moon, so why bother?
The subject of the OP was migration to Mars. Why bother when fewer resources would be needed to bunker on the moon while repairing the earths problems as an alternative to migrating to Mars and attempting to recreating the earths environment on a barren rock.
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

Last edited by EHocking; 4th May 2019 at 05:54 PM.
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th May 2019, 06:05 PM   #19
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
Moderator
 
novaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,796
Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
Or Mars.
Hell. Even Antarctica is more habitable than Mars.

Domed cities while fixing Earth would probably be cheaper and more feasible.
__________________
We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.
novaphile is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:14 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.