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Old 2nd March 2019, 11:48 AM   #81
dann
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Lewis Black offers to adopt children of anti-vaxxer parents!

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I AGREE


In the meantime, we have got the problem here as well (only five Danes so far):
98 lande ramt af mæslingeudbrud: - Rejs ikke udenlands uden vaccine (TV2 News, March 1, 2019)
"98 countries affected by outbreak of measles: - Don't go abroad without vaccine"

Alle i mæslingeudbrud er smittet med samme virus (dr.dk, Feb. 28, 2019)
"Everybody in measles outbreak infected with the same virus"
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Last edited by dann; 2nd March 2019 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 8th March 2019, 03:24 PM   #82
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on a related note:
Notes from the Field: Tetanus in an Unvaccinated Child — Oregon, 2017
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Old 8th March 2019, 03:32 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Quote:
The boy required 57 days of inpatient acute care, including 47 days in the intensive care unit. The inpatient charges totaled $811,929 (excluding air transportation, inpatient rehabilitation, and ambulatory follow-up costs). One month after inpatient rehabilitation, he returned to all normal activities, including running and bicycling. Despite extensive review of the risks and benefits of tetanus vaccination by physicians, the family declined the second dose of DTaP and any other recommended immunizations.


Unbelievable how stupid people can be. I wonder who paid those medical costs.
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Old 8th March 2019, 04:04 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


Unbelievable how stupid people can be. I wonder who paid those medical costs.
I also saw this:

Quote:
a boy aged 6 years who had received no immunizations sustained a forehead laceration while playing outdoors on a farm; the wound was cleaned and sutured at home.
Not every family does their own stitches.
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Old 8th March 2019, 06:12 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I also saw this:

Not every family does their own stitches.
My first guess would have been a visiting Doctor or Nurse Practitioner, but you never know...
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Old 8th March 2019, 09:02 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
My first guess would have been a visiting Doctor or Nurse Practitioner, but you never know...
No, without a tetanus vaccine you'd leave the wound open, not close it up. NPs and MDs would know that.

That they live on a farm is a clue. That they live on a farm however is also a clue other people paid those health care costs.
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Old 8th March 2019, 10:45 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No, without a tetanus vaccine you'd leave the wound open, not close it up. NPs and MDs would know that.

That they live on a farm is a clue. That they live on a farm however is also a clue other people paid those health care costs.
Ah. Very interesting (both points).
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:40 AM   #88
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Outbreak is up to 75 cases now.
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Old 21st March 2019, 08:27 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post

This aspect of the outbreak is getting attention again:

Why the Washington measles outbreak is mostly affecting one specific group
Quote:
The CDC says 75 percent of recent measles cases are linked to tight-knit communities.
Quote:
Measles in Washington — like many recent measles outbreaks in the US — has been spreading in a particular type of community: tight-knit and traditional.

In Washington, the virus has predominantly hit Russian-speaking groups hailing mainly from Ukraine and Russia, according to a source close to the matter. These groups have the lowest rate of vaccination of any population in Washington, the state’s most recent data shows.

And they’re not unique. An ongoing measles outbreak in New York involves mostly people from an undervaccinated Orthodox Jewish community. Since October, 304 people have been sickened by the virus — the highest number in the state in decades. Before that, it was vaccine-refusing Amish in Ohio and Somali Americans in Minnesota.


This also seems relevant:

Kentucky governor says he exposed his children to chickenpox rather than getting vaccine

Quote:
Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin said he made sure all his nine children were exposed to chickenpox and caught the disease instead of giving them a vaccine.

"They had it as children. They were miserable for a few days, and they all turned out fine," Bevin said in an interview with WKCT, a Bowling Green radio station.
Bevin and his wife, Glenna, have nine children between the ages of 5 and 16, according to his campaign website.
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Old 21st March 2019, 10:46 PM   #90
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An Italian populist politician who campaigned against compulsory vaccinations for children was taken to hospital suffering from chickenpox.
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Old 26th April 2019, 10:50 PM   #91
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Meanwhile... In California...

Universities are asking people to stay in quarantine after hundreds being exposed to measles on campus...

Link

I'm not sure if you'd count this as part of the same outbreak, but I notice that these are adjacent states in the USA (Oregon and California)
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Old 26th April 2019, 10:54 PM   #92
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Quote:
The announcement comes as measles cases in the United States have surpassed the highest number on record since the disease was declared eliminated nationwide in 2000.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirmed the milestone Wednesday, saying that it has counted 695 cases in 22 states this year. With outbreaks spreading, President Donald Trump on Friday stressed the need for Americans to get vaccinated.

"The vaccinations are so important. This is really going around now," Trump said. "They have to get their shots."
Link (CNN)
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Old 27th April 2019, 07:08 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
Meanwhile... In California...

Universities are asking people to stay in quarantine after hundreds being exposed to measles on campus...

Link

I'm not sure if you'd count this as part of the same outbreak, but I notice that these are adjacent states in the USA (Oregon and California)

Not he same outbreak. While Oregon and California are adjacent, the outbreaks are not. The Portland/Vancouver area and LA are further apart than New York and Florida.
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Old 27th April 2019, 06:23 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
Not he same outbreak. While Oregon and California are adjacent, the outbreaks are not. The Portland/Vancouver area and LA are further apart than New York and Florida.
Adding to this ^:

The CA and OR cases are not epidemiologically related. OR and WA were part of the same outbreak.

In both west coast outbreaks, the initial (index) cases were an exposure in another country or in the airport.

That separate outbreaks have occurred across the county near the same time is a reflection of just how bad the anti-vaxxer impact has gotten.
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Old 27th April 2019, 07:07 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Adding to this ^:

The CA and OR cases are not epidemiologically related. OR and WA were part of the same outbreak.

In both west coast outbreaks, the initial (index) cases were an exposure in another country or in the airport.

That separate outbreaks have occurred across the county near the same time is a reflection of just how bad the anti-vaxxer impact has gotten.
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Old 28th April 2019, 11:21 AM   #96
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Apparently anti-vaxers are using The Brady Bunch TV show as a source of medical information supporting their views:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...arcia-s-miffed

Just how stupid can a person be? And it has been proven: a group of people can be more stupid than any one of them individually.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 04:56 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Apparently anti-vaxers are using The Brady Bunch TV show as a source of medical information supporting their views:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...arcia-s-miffed

Just how stupid can a person be? And it has been proven: a group of people can be more stupid than any one of them individually.
E-freaking-gads... Anti-vaxers will go with anything they can, won't they?.... Seriously. Who could doubt the word Dr. Sherwood Schwartz*?









* Actually, Sherwood Schwartz was also upset they used his prime time abomination as an anti-vax tool. Just goes to show the Brady Bunch should have never existed in the first place.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 05:46 PM   #98
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I had it in 1953 and didn't die! So there!

I wonder how many other people I infected on the way back from Kansas to Montana.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 06:19 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I had it in 1953 and didn't die! So there!

I wonder how many other people I infected on the way back from Kansas to Montana.
It was licensed for use by Merck in 1971. Stand alone measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines had been previously licensed in 1963, 1967, and 1969 respectively.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine

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Old 3rd May 2019, 09:18 PM   #100
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I think Trebuchet is saying he had measles in 1953, not the vaccine.
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Old 3rd May 2019, 10:10 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I think Trebuchet is saying he had measles in 1953, not the vaccine.
Yes. I had measles in the late 50s, don't know the year but I developed a cough for 3 months after. My dad smoking in the house likely contributed.
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Old 4th May 2019, 02:05 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I think Trebuchet is saying he had measles in 1953, not the vaccine.
Correct.
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Old 4th May 2019, 08:32 PM   #103
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Oh, OK that makes sense.
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Old 5th May 2019, 10:17 AM   #104
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Just when it seemed to be over, someone from Canada visits Seattle while contagious:

Measles case in traveler to King County
Quote:
A Canadian resident from British Columbia who traveled to the Seattle area in late April 2019 has been diagnosed with measles. The traveler, a man in his 40s, has since recovered from his illness.

Prior to arriving in King County, he spent time in Japan and New York during the period that he was infected, two places that currently have measles outbreaks. This case has no connection to the recently-ended measles outbreak based in Clark County, Washington state.

While he was infectious with measles, he spent time in the Seattle area at several locations, including popular tourist attractions and Sea-Tac Airport. Anyone who does not have immunity to measles through vaccination or from previously having measles is at risk for infection if they were at a location of measles exposure.

"This case is another reminder that measles is resurgent in many areas of the United States and the world, and that because we all travel, no community is safe from measles introductions," said Dr. Jeff Duchin, Health Officer for Public Health – Seattle & King County. "Measles vaccine is safe and effective - all adults and children should be sure they are up to date with the recommended doses of the vaccine to protect themselves and their community."
NPR: U.S. measles outbreaks are driven by a global surge in the virus... and the anti-vaxxer idiots.
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Old 5th May 2019, 01:13 PM   #105
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Canada is having their own problems with measles.

Doctors worry as anti-vaccination messages escalate from social media misinformation to personal threats
Quote:
As anti-vaccination groups fight back against public health campaigns to promote immunization in the face of measles outbreaks, some Canadian doctors say the battle has escalated beyond social media platforms to personal threats and attacks.

"The pitchforks are coming out," said Dr. Anna Wolak, a family physician in Vancouver who has publicly spoken out on social media about the importance of vaccination — both as a doctor and the mother of three children. ...

"[They said] I really hope that your kids get a vaccine injury and then you'll know exactly what sort of poison you're talking about," she recalled.

Although those interactions have been hurtful, Wolak said she has not received any "overt threats" of physical harm — something that has happened in recent months to at least two other Canadian doctors.
And of course this, because that's what social media does to people:
Quote:
emails ranging from harassment to threats — about 200 of which came from the same email address — since the fall. ...

The threats to both doctors were reported to police.

Both physicians said police told them the IP addresses for the emails were in the U.S.

It's always the anti-science crowd that gets the loudest and is most effective in the social media realm. It used to be right-wing radio (I assume they are still there). Now it is social media and it's a goldmine for spreading misinformation.

also known as "anti-vaxxers" — have gained the upper hand in a raging social media battle.

Quote:
That's because public health authorities have been "relatively slow" to respond to anti-vaccination propaganda in ways that are appealing to social media audiences, he said. Instead, they have relied on the assumption that "putting out the truth and factual information" is enough.

But social media "relies on short, relatively catchy or attention-grabbing memes, messages, videos ... an informal tone," Kurasawa said.
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Old 5th May 2019, 01:21 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Canada is having their own problems with measles.

Doctors worry as anti-vaccination messages escalate from social media misinformation to personal threats

And of course this, because that's what social media does to people:


It's always the anti-science crowd that gets the loudest and is most effective in the social media realm. It used to be right-wing radio (I assume they are still there). Now it is social media and it's a goldmine for spreading misinformation.

also known as "anti-vaxxers" — have gained the upper hand in a raging social media battle.
There’s one part I really do not understand: the apparent, quite mild, response to direct threats.

Do the police have to wait until someone is actually, physically assaulted (or worse) before they take action? How is such action by anti-vaxxers different from an IS threat, say?
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:30 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
There’s one part I really do not understand: the apparent, quite mild, response to direct threats.

Do the police have to wait until someone is actually, physically assaulted (or worse) before they take action? How is such action by anti-vaxxers different from an IS threat, say?
I don't know about Canada but I'm pretty sure someone has to assess that the threat is real. How far away is the threatening person, does he have a plan, has he acquired a weapon,...that sort of thing.
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Old 7th May 2019, 05:09 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't know about Canada but I'm pretty sure someone has to assess that the threat is real. How far away is the threatening person, does he have a plan, has he acquired a weapon,...that sort of thing.
I did some digging on this; suffice it to say that it’s ... complicated. In general, threats are taken seriously, which is comforting.
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Old 13th May 2019, 07:01 PM   #109
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And another one spreads the dust virus.

New measles exposures in Pierce and King Counties
Quote:
He was not exposed to the most recent case in King County while that person was contagious; the source of infection for the Pierce County resident is unknown.
Which means there is an unknown exposure source. But given Seatac Airport is one place the man went, the exposure was likely there or someplace further away.
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Old 20th May 2019, 11:51 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Apparently anti-vaxers are using The Brady Bunch TV show as a source of medical information supporting their views:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...arcia-s-miffed

Just how stupid can a person be? And it has been proven: a group of people can be more stupid than any one of them individually.
What the episode of the Brady Bunch shows is that measles was not considered a particularly dangerous disease before the vaccine became available. Other shows dealt with it in much the same light hearted manner. Why?

The only counter argument is that people back then just didn't know how dangerous measles is. That makes no sense. Measles has been around forever. Other diseases were recognized as deadly but somehow, the 'deadliness' of measles was not known. Until a vaccine was available, that is.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:04 PM   #111
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In the vast majority of cases measles means an unpleasant 7 - 10 days, the percentage of cases which result in permanent disability or death is very small. But when most children get it, even a small percentage means a lot of deaths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles

Quote:
In 1980, 2.6 million people died of it,[7] and in 1990, 545,000 died; by 2014, global vaccination programs had reduced the number of deaths from measles to 73,000.[9][16] Despite these trends, rates of disease and deaths increased from 2017 to 2019 due to a decrease in immunization.[17][18][19] The risk of death among those infected is about 0.2%,[5] but may be up to 10% in people with malnutrition.[7] Most of those who die from the infection are less than five years old.[7
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:04 PM   #112
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Most people are not 'anti-vax' in that they don't advocate for the banning of vaccines. They are anti-mandatory vaccine. They believe, rightly, that no one has the right to force a medical procedure on someone without their informed consent.

There is no test to determine if you're at risk of adverse side effects from any vaccine. So every shot you get is playing Russian Roulette. If you want to play, fine. But no one has the right to force others to play.

Vaccines are not 100% safe, as evidenced by the adverse effects listed on the insert. If someone is injected against their will, and they die as a result, that's tantamount to murder.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:09 PM   #113
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There is no test to determine if you're at risk of blindness or death if you get measles either. So every shot you don't get is also playing Russian Roulette.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:14 PM   #114
Hellbound
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Most people are not 'anti-vax' in that they don't advocate for the banning of vaccines. They are anti-mandatory vaccine. They believe, rightly, that no one has the right to force a medical procedure on someone without their informed consent.

There is no test to determine if you're at risk of adverse side effects from any vaccine. So every shot you get is playing Russian Roulette. If you want to play, fine. But no one has the right to force others to play.

Vaccines are not 100% safe, as evidenced by the adverse effects listed on the insert. If someone is injected against their will, and they die as a result, that's tantamount to murder.
And this is the same sort of ignorant argument made against seat belt laws.

And yes, we absolutely DO have the right to perform medical procedures without informed consent (read up on the concept of implied consent for the most common example).

And speaking to risk, that's the most idiotic argument yet. The risk levels for any vaccine, even the anthrax vaccine which is about the highest risk one I know of, are at least an order of magnitude more rare and less severe than the risks of the disease they protect against. Speaking to charging people with murder, by your own argument, that's EXACTLY the charge we should apply to parents who don't vaccinate their children, if their children die of an otherwise preventable disease.

Besides which, vaccination is not mandatory, unless you want to attend public school. And that is perfectly rational; if you want to be a septic harbor in your own house, that's one thing. You have no right to put other's children at risk. Vaccines offer protection via herd immunity as well as individual resistance, both important. So can we also charge the by-choice unvaccinated with murder when they infect the immuno-compromised that cannot be vaccinated?
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:19 PM   #115
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"[They said] I really hope that your kids get a vaccine injury and then you'll know exactly what sort of poison you're talking about," she recalled.

That type of sentiment comes from both sides and it's not a 'threat'. A threat implies that some harmful action might be taken by the person uttering the threat.

Such statements from both sides are just childish and indicate a lack of thought and a lack of compassion.

The fact is, nobody wants any children to be harmed - by vaccines or by disease.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:28 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
What the episode of the Brady Bunch shows is that measles was not considered a particularly dangerous disease before the vaccine became available. Other shows dealt with it in much the same light hearted manner. Why?

The only counter argument is that people back then just didn't know how dangerous measles is. That makes no sense. Measles has been around forever. Other diseases were recognized as deadly but somehow, the 'deadliness' of measles was not known. Until a vaccine was available, that is.
Funny, my mom knew it was a deadly disease in the 50s.

In fact, it wasn't until the vaccine had been around a decade that people began to forget (or never learn) how bad the disease was because after the vaccine came out in 1963, cases became rare.

You are judging what a whole population thought of measles based on one ignorant screen writer. The Brady Bunch was on from 1969 until the '70s.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:28 PM   #117
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And yes, we absolutely DO have the right to perform medical procedures without informed consent (read up on the concept of implied consent for the most common example).

Ahh thanks for the update. I was always under the impression we are all born with equal rights.
But apparently, according to you, some people have more rights than others. How does that work? Who has the right to bestow superior rights on certain individuals?

I guess you believe some people are naturally born with more rights than you.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:32 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Most people are not 'anti-vax' in that they don't advocate for the banning of vaccines. They are anti-mandatory vaccine. They believe, rightly, that no one has the right to force a medical procedure on someone without their informed consent.

There is no test to determine if you're at risk of adverse side effects from any vaccine. So every shot you get is playing Russian Roulette. If you want to play, fine. But no one has the right to force others to play.

Vaccines are not 100% safe, as evidenced by the adverse effects listed on the insert. If someone is injected against their will, and they die as a result, that's tantamount to murder.
You post the same naive arguments as the anti-vaxxers do.

Do you have a right to discharge a firearm into the air in the city? Why not?
Do you have a right to race up and down residential streets at 50 MPH over the speed limit? Why not?
Do you have the right to only feed your child celery? Lock them in a hot car? Leave a toddler home alone while you go out and party? Why not?

Sorry dude but your right does not include putting other people at risk. There are public heath laws for a reason.
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:38 PM   #119
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All of the five new cases in this area were infected at SeaTac airport on a single day. There are 6 more people waiting for lab confirmation, not sure where they were exposed but it is likely they are secondary cases.

I'm surprised we haven't seen larger outbreaks from airport exposures until recently. But it is evidence when herd-immunity drops off to a certain threshold, boom!
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Old 20th May 2019, 12:40 PM   #120
Itchy Boy
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There were several 'ignorant' screen writers, as I pointed out other shows gave measles the same light treatment. So you believe they just didn't know how deadly it was, despite measles being around for centuries?

Funny, I didn't know it was deadly in the 50's when I had it. My friends' parents didn't know it was deadly when they brought their children to my house for a measles party. It was mildly uncomfortable, and we all got over it with no lasting effects, except lifelong proper immunity.

I'm judging what a whole population thought of measles from first hand experience. The Brady Bunch and other shows simply reflected the attitude at the time.

By your logic, people now have forgotten how deadly are smallpox, the plague, etc.
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