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Tags diet , Jordan Peterson , nutrition

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Old 5th May 2019, 01:29 PM   #121
Red Baron Farms
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Do men in general biologically need to eat more red meat than women, or only psychologically?

Because they are ******* up the planet either way.

I can only assume any biological reason is that it takes less energy and thought and effort if you're big and dominant to chuck a steak in a pan than it does to buy and prepare legumes etc. Another reason for higher levels of obesity - less energy expenditure.
Actually when it comes to red meat, women and children need it more than men.

And as far as ******* up the planet, there is no comparison at all, the unequivocal quantifiable largest ecological harm to the entire planet is from arable cropland. It's not even close. In fact the only reason the production of red meat is harmful at all is the plowing and herbicides used on the land to grow crops to feed herbivores. If you feed them forage off the land instead, and are careful not to overstock, then they are the solution, not the problem.

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“The number one public enemy is the cow. But the number one tool that can save mankind is the cow. We need every cow we can get back out on the range. It is almost criminal to have them in feedlots which are inhumane, antisocial, and environmentally and economically unsound.” Allan Savory
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"The pigs do that work (by rooting in the forest and that creates the temporary disturbance on the ground that allows germination for higher successional species.) And so it allows for those pigs to be not just pork chops, bacon, and that. But now they then become co-conspirators and fellow laborers in this great land healing ministry ... by fully respecting the pigness of the pig." Joel Salatin
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“Yes, agriculture done improperly can definitely be a problem, but agriculture done in a proper way is an important solution to environmental issues including climate change, water issues, and biodiversity.”-Rattan Lal
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:33 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Do men in general biologically need to eat more red meat than women, or only psychologically?

Because they are ******* up the planet either way.

I can only assume any biological reason is that it takes less energy and thought and effort if you're big and dominant to chuck a steak in a pan than it does to buy and prepare legumes etc. Another reason for higher levels of obesity - less energy expenditure.
Why would you assume that?

I don't think any evolutionary advantage would have kicked in, in the few hundred years since we have been able to buy and prepare legumes.

The higher levels of obesity come from the consumption of more sugar and other processed foods..
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Old 6th May 2019, 06:44 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's less effort, but it's more skill. Timing matters for a steak, and the visual feedback is subtler. I'm sure I could cook a steak that wouldn't give you food poisoning, but it probably wouldn't taste as good as a steak cooked by someone who really knows what they're doing. Ground beef (like for chilli) isn't very sensitive to the cooking time, and you can tell very easily when it's all done visually.

The cooking is actually the least important part of that process. Timing only matters to personal taste, some people like their meat nearly bloody, some well-warmed through, and some tasteless heathens like it cooked to shoe leather. You really just have to pick a time and stick with it (the time I gave were for an average large steak to cook medium rare).

Most of the quality of a steak is in the raising of the cattle, and in the aging of the meat prior to cooking. The only thing you have to worry about when cooking a steak is not to screw it up by cooking it too long, or doing anything unnecessary before cooking it (like salting, don't do that).

And if you get food poisoning from steak, even if it's completely uncooked raw beef, you or the person you got the steak from has done something very, very wrong long before cooking it.
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Old 6th May 2019, 07:07 PM   #124
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RBF, unless you know of a way to provide heavy vehicles and compost to spread on all meat production land, meat is ******* up the planet.
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Old 6th May 2019, 08:43 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
RBF, unless you know of a way to provide heavy vehicles and compost to spread on all meat production land, meat is ******* up the planet.
Cows have legs, and they spread their own "compost". In fact its why they are so efficient at restoring the land to fertility and biodiversity.

The problem with cows has not a thing to do with the animals themselves. The problem is the ignorant humans who manage them improperly.
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Old 6th May 2019, 09:00 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Do men in general biologically need to eat more red meat than women, or only psychologically?

Because they are ******* up the planet either way.

I can only assume any biological reason is that it takes less energy and thought and effort if you're big and dominant to chuck a steak in a pan than it does to buy and prepare legumes etc. Another reason for higher levels of obesity - less energy expenditure.
Men don't lose a whole pile of iron on a monthly schedule.
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Old 7th May 2019, 01:48 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Why? If he's clueless about diet, that doesn't mean much about areas which are his actual field of expertise. Plenty of very smart people are subject to that limitation.
Steve Jobs springs to mind.
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Old 7th May 2019, 04:18 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Men don't lose a whole pile of iron on a monthly schedule.
Unless, I suppose, they have piles.
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Old 7th May 2019, 08:16 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Cooking steak is easier than cooking ground beef. You thaw it, stick it in a pan or on a grill on medium-high heat for about 3-10 minutes (adjust for thickness of steak), then turn it over and do the same thing. Even less effort required than cooking ground beef, since you don't have to futz with it while it cooks, just let it sit there and don't screw it up.

It never ceases to amaze me how utterly divorced from reality and utterly lacking in the most basic life skills some people can be.
...says the person who would actually cook a steak in a pan.



lol @ this thread and Dr Nutjob's all-meat diet.
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Old 8th May 2019, 01:17 AM   #130
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Why not try this quiz while you are waiting for your sides of beef to mature?

Evolutionary Psychology
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Old 8th May 2019, 01:42 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Why not try this quiz while you are waiting for your sides of beef to mature?

Evolutionary Psychology
I can think of numerous legitimate criticisms of Peterson, but I find it annoying that articles that attempt to criticise him must seemingly always build strawmen of his arguments to attack.

No, he doesn't want humans to organise themselves like lobsters, yes he will address transgender people as they prefer, no he doesn't want to force women to marry unattractive men. No, he's not telling others to follow his meat diet. He chose an extreme diet because of health issues. No, he's not a Nazi, he's a social democrat.

Legitimate criticisms IMHO:
He probably doesn't quite grasp postmodernism, he probably misunderstands the long term result of certain legal issues, he is an idiot in regards to climate change. He uses a lot of Jungian psychology and thus sounds new-agey. Yes, his distractors loudly protested him and inadvertently made him very famous and very rich.
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Old 8th May 2019, 01:55 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Men don't lose a whole pile of iron on a monthly schedule.


Most women don't eat much red meat.

Australians at least eat more meat than they need already.

I've seen the studies.
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Old 8th May 2019, 01:59 PM   #133
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This diet appeals to extremists, and people who still buy into the mouldy old clichés about men being manly for eating meat.
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Old 8th May 2019, 04:43 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
This diet appeals to extremists, and people who still buy into the mouldy old clichés about men being manly for eating meat.
Yeah, based on the source, that's the first thing I thought of too. Feed the man meat.
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Old 8th May 2019, 07:34 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yeah, based on the source, that's the first thing I thought of too. Feed the man meat.
He started this diet after his daughter did it first and seemed to have improvement in major health problems.

I think it's crazy, but I don't think that your psychoanalysis is correct.
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Old 8th May 2019, 07:44 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
He started this diet after his daughter did it first and seemed to have improvement in major health problems.

I think it's crazy, but I don't think that your psychoanalysis is correct.
It wasn't a psychoanalysis, it was a first impression.
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Old 8th May 2019, 10:56 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
This diet appeals to extremists, and people who still buy into the mouldy old clichés about men being manly for eating meat.
Just so funny seeing men bragging about their meats as if they themselves need reassurance that they won't be turning vegetarian anytime soon.

oooookay...
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Old 9th May 2019, 12:26 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
This diet appeals to extremists, and people who still buy into the mouldy old clichés about men being manly for eating meat.
His daughter had severe reactions to food, she had arthritis to the point of needing hip and ankle replacements. She started experimenting with eliminating foods from her diet and at the extreme end of that ended up with an all-meat diet. It seems to work for her.

Her dad had numerous health problems, he started following the same diet as his daughter and his health improved.

All this amateur pop-psychology stuff is a bit embarrassing for a Skeptics forum.

As an aside; Meat was manly when you had to hunt it. Now, throwing it in a shopping trolly takes about as much effort, risk and stamina as buying a tofu burger.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:46 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
He has a daughter (named Mikhaila, age 26), and she's actually the one who came up with this diet first, and he adopted it after seeing how well it worked for her.

The Jordan Peterson All-Meat Diet
As an aside, it somehow does not strike me as surprising in the least that Jordan Peterson would take something allegedly successful that was developed entirely by his daughter and name it after himself.
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Old 9th May 2019, 01:55 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
As an aside, it somehow does not strike me as surprising in the least that Jordan Peterson would take something allegedly successful that was developed entirely by his daughter and name it after himself.
As Roboramma says above, there are many legitimate reasons to have a go at Mr Darwinian Truth without having to make up new ones. The article referred to it as the Jordan Peterson all-meat diet. It is not as if he decided to take credit from his daughter for her weird diet.
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Old 9th May 2019, 02:02 AM   #141
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Weird all-meat diet followed, as well as trumpeted out loud, by weirdo, eh? Where have we seen this before?


Could it be, then, that our forums have been graced by this JP person? (Although the member I'm thinking about -- who shall remain unnamed here -- hasn't posted in the last few months or so.)
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Old 9th May 2019, 02:09 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Weird all-meat diet followed, as well as trumpeted out loud, by weirdo, eh? Where have we seen this before?


Could it be, then, that our forums have been graced by this JP person? (Although the member I'm thinking about -- who shall remain unnamed here -- hasn't posted in the last few months or so.)
I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying Peterson posted here?
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Old 9th May 2019, 07:18 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying Peterson posted here?
Not really. JP's all-meat diet reminded me of a member's posts about their equally crazy diet, crazier in fact, that allegedly included, among other things, a spectacular (and literal) crap-fest.

Was that member (he's still a member, so I won't get any closer to identifying him) JP? It's possible, of course, but I doubt it very much.

Just my somewhat lame joke, reminded as I was by this thread of that poster.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:06 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
As Roboramma says above, there are many legitimate reasons to have a go at Mr Darwinian Truth without having to make up new ones. The article referred to it as the Jordan Peterson all-meat diet. It is not as if he decided to take credit from his daughter for her weird diet.
People name stuff after themselves all the time.
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Old 15th June 2019, 01:43 PM   #145
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Dr Adam Rutherford reports

Quote:
Jordan Petersen is launching a free speech blog thing. Wouldn't it be fun if it were crammed with upvoted articles saying what a scientifically illiterate, self-obsessed grifter he is, only really interested in shilling his own brand by monetising anger?
The tweet contains a link to a holding page with mailing list sign up
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Old 15th June 2019, 04:24 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
...says the person who would actually cook a steak in a pan.



lol @ this thread and Dr Nutjob's all-meat diet.
Pan seared is the simplest and best way to cook a steak.
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Old 15th June 2019, 04:28 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
What is he going to write about, I wonder.
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Old 17th June 2019, 04:51 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
What is he going to write about, I wonder.
I read about that.

He and some other public intellectuals were attacked online for stating some (probable) truths that made people on the extreme left angry.

Now he thinks he has to make a free-speech safe space for open debate.

What JBP thinks will happen:
He will be associated with a new platform for vibrant public discourse that will be a safe haven for intellectuals like Gad Saad, Brett Weinstein etc and their fans.

What will actually happen:
JPB doesn't have the money or time to play tech entrepreneur. The platform will probably not be completed and all he'll have to show for it will be some gigantic developer bills.

If it does go online, it will not only have a terrible interface (see Gab and other alternative platforms), but it will attract mostly Neo-Nazi Twitter-exiles who will troll JPB and his 'no moderating' policies.

The platform will fail and will be used on this forum and others as yet another strawman to attack JPB without actually engaging with his ideas.

So it's:
Failure to launch->huge IT bill
Launch->huge IT bill-> Alt-Right hellhole-> pull plug -> reputation damage

Off course there will be multiple huge IT bills, but I tried to keep the model simple for readability.
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:05 AM   #149
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Holy ****, this is sad but maybe not all that surprising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izzWNE9eLLk
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Old 13th February 2020, 04:44 PM   #150
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I've skimmed this thread, didn't bother reading it the first time it came around a year or so ago but man... this...

Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
He and some other public intellectuals were attacked online for stating some (probable) truths that made people on the extreme left angry.
Petersen has never once said anything close to the truth about "the left" and I guess it's now my life's mission to keep correcting people on this site about this crap that gets casually tossed about as if it were somehow correct.

I consider myself on the extreme left and he doesn't make me angry nor any extreme lefties I know of; he's simply very, very wrong about every claim he's ever made about the left -- about socialism (contrary to your [Eddie Dane] comment earlier about his being considered a democratic socialist; thanks for the laugh though!) -- about communism -- about anarchy -- and about pretty much everything. He's nothing but a figure of derision and mocking and a symbol of the creeping fascist ideologies that are spreading throughout the world -- dragging governments further and further right straight into totalitarianism.

He got rich and famous because of his ignorant anti-liberal stance and it's the libs he fires up, and not so much the left who are even minimally knowledgeable about the topics for which he is exceedingly unsuited to speak about.


Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Holy ****, this is sad but maybe not all that surprising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izzWNE9eLLk
Yeah, just pile on to the hypocrisy that is the essence of Petersen's soul but where did he choose to go to for his quacky quick fix but the EEEEVVIIILLL RUSSIA where he let those horrible COMMIES put their stinkin' red hands all over his precious old white patriarch's body.

I mean, it brought this poor man to literal tears recounting how awful and deadly communism has been to the planet (according to his vast breadth of misinformation that is) yet still chose to spend lots of his loot gained by conning the ignorant conservatives and deluded reactionists in the heart of commie land.
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:53 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Yeah, just pile on to the hypocrisy that is the essence of Petersen's soul but where did he choose to go to for his quacky quick fix but the EEEEVVIIILLL RUSSIA where he let those horrible COMMIES put their stinkin' red hands all over his precious old white patriarch's body.

I mean, it brought this poor man to literal tears recounting how awful and deadly communism has been to the planet (according to his vast breadth of misinformation that is) yet still chose to spend lots of his loot gained by conning the ignorant conservatives and deluded reactionists in the heart of commie land.
Russia isn't communist any more. Now it is a reactionary, nationalist authoritarian state. Perfect place for Jordan. Shame he didn't stay there.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:58 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
I mean, it brought this poor man to literal tears recounting how awful and deadly communism has been to the planet (according to his vast breadth of misinformation that is) yet still chose to spend lots of his loot gained by conning the ignorant conservatives and deluded reactionists in the heart of commie land.
You went full commie. Never go full commie.
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:39 AM   #153
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Now, back on topic:

Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Pan seared is the simplest and best way to cook a steak.

If you don't count holding it on a pointy stick over a fire.
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Old 15th February 2020, 10:17 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
I read about that.

He and some other public intellectuals were attacked online for stating some (probable) truths that made people on the extreme left angry.

No. Just no. Not in the real world, as opposed to rightist fantasies.
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Old 21st February 2020, 07:21 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Russia isn't communist any more. Now it is a reactionary, nationalist authoritarian state. Perfect place for Jordan. Shame he didn't stay there.
Thank you, reading the post you were responding to, I was thinking we were in a parallel universe or something
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Old 22nd February 2020, 02:09 PM   #156
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I found Amber O'Hearn's experience with an all meat diet interesting.

She hasn't updated her site recently, but it does contain references to interesting studies and articles.

I really like the article that is on the page I linked to.

"High-Fiber Diet Might", a translation:

She discusses an article from the JAMA

For instance JAMA says:

But just as there are “bad” fats and “good” fats, there are also bad carbs and good carbs. “We showed very clearly in our work in diabetes that the benefits of carbs came from the good carbs, and the good carbs are not high in sugar,” Mann said. “They are high in fiber.”

Amber Translates:

In fact, we've shown that the benefit from carbs come from those carb foods that are low carb.



It's really quite hilarious how the nutrition consensus that has driven us into epidemics of obesity and T2D, is waking up and pretending they were right all along.
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Old 22nd February 2020, 06:59 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Russia isn't communist any more. Now it is a reactionary, nationalist authoritarian state. Perfect place for Jordan. Shame he didn't stay there.
Yeah, guess I should have used sarcasm tags because I wasn't being serious.


Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You went full commie. Never go full commie.
Why ever not?



Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Thank you, reading the post you were responding to, I was thinking we were in a parallel universe or something
Why not respond directly to me rather than this insinuation?
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Old Yesterday, 12:26 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Why ever not?
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM   #159
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I hope Peterson makes a full recovery.

I hope he drops his meat diet. It just sounds silly.
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