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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 16th November 2020, 11:48 PM   #1281
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Anything to make him look like a winner. Even if it means the whole world loses.
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Old 17th November 2020, 12:14 AM   #1282
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Anything to make him look like a winner. Even if it means the whole world loses.
And even if it doesn't really make him look better.

Not giving up is not helping him after a point. He seems to fluctuate between he can change reality and he's fighting because he believes he was cheated and he knows it's a lost cause but he needs to save face showing believers he was cheated.

What good would bombing Iran do? He seems to think it would make him look tough. He withdrew from the treaty. People are saying Iran is back to enriching uranium. Trump thinks he has to show them (in his toddler brain). But if he really did it, the disaster would be on him.

There's a reason there was so much enthusiasm to vote him out. He looks like the jerk he is. He doesn't see it.
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Old 17th November 2020, 08:58 AM   #1283
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So you missed that whole theme of "Duty to Warn"?

I believe upon reflection you might realize how ludicrous your post is, maybe.

They didn't predict the pandemic and now they are claiming they warned the country? Seriously, that's where you went with this, they weren't clairvoyant on the details so they weren't right.


That's some frickin weird denial in your post.

I’ve reflected on that post, written while I was a bit tipsy....

I stand by it. You keep insisting that a diagnosis is a reliable predictor of behavior. But it’s not. What is a reliable predictor of behavior is a simple observation of past behavior. In other threads, non-clinicians have done a much better job of predicting Trump’s behavior.

If anyone has “missed the theme” of duty to warn, it’s the Yale Group. Minoosh hit the nail on the head: it doesn’t work as a general warning of “he might do some extreme stuff,” none of which actually happened. His danger lay in his obvious selfishness and incompetence and the more banal dangers of bad policy.
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Old 17th November 2020, 09:43 AM   #1284
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Now hold on a second . . . you want me to present evidence that empathy is a prerequisite to medical practice? That the ability to care about one's patients is fundamental?

Yes.

Quote:
Wow. But OK. It's Statement I of the AMA's Code of Ethics upon which all the other medical codes are based:



Note their specific use of the word "compassion" which is something Mary Trump says she no longer has for her uncle.
Compassion and empathy are not the same thing.

I think it's perfectly possible to treat a patient without having empathy for them. I think it's a little ludicrous to suggest otherwise, to be honest, otherwise you'd never find a doctor to tend to, for example, Peter Sutcliffe or similar.
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Old 17th November 2020, 12:43 PM   #1285
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I’ve reflected on that post, written while I was a bit tipsy....

I stand by it. You keep insisting that a diagnosis is a reliable predictor of behavior. But it’s not. What is a reliable predictor of behavior is a simple observation of past behavior. In other threads, non-clinicians have done a much better job of predicting Trump’s behavior.

If anyone has “missed the theme” of duty to warn, it’s the Yale Group. Minoosh hit the nail on the head: it doesn’t work as a general warning of “he might do some extreme stuff,” none of which actually happened. His danger lay in his obvious selfishness and incompetence and the more banal dangers of bad policy.

Nobody is saying it can predict behaviour but that there's enough evidence for a full psychological assessment and possibly removing from, say military command if that is considered to be appropriate
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Old 17th November 2020, 02:28 PM   #1286
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Nobody is saying it can predict behaviour but that there's enough evidence for a full psychological assessment and possibly removing from, say military command if that is considered to be appropriate

If that was all it was I wouldn’t have bothered posting. I refer you to post 1 of this multi-part thread. I also refer you to the many Skeptic Ginger posts talking about how a diagnosis is predictive.

I think there’s enough evidence to show that he prolly needs to be checked out. There is not enough to say that he has any particular mental illness.
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:49 PM   #1287
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If that was all it was I wouldn’t have bothered posting. I refer you to post 1 of this multi-part thread. I also refer you to the many Skeptic Ginger posts talking about how a diagnosis is predictive.

I think there’s enough evidence to show that he prolly needs to be checked out. There is not enough to say that he has any particular mental illness.
I think we can dismiss that bolded sentence right off the bat. Dozens of top psychiatric and psychological professionals have clearly defined the evidence. There is no way your admitted lay opinion carries any weight against all that expertise.


Re the highlighted, I went back in the thread to the beginning and pulled out a couple of examples. They aren't in chronological order.

We had his erratic behavior during the campaign, and now we have several months observing his blatant, persistent lying, erratic decision making, and his staff choices which run the gamut from religious extremists to right wing extremists to an incompetent assortment to inexperienced family members.
If you don't think that's evidence he's dangerous or at least potentially dangerous, I suggest you have your eyes closed.



He also imagines he's great so he will claim the Kim and Putin meetings were great successes even though they weren't. He claims he got NATO strengthened when he weakened it and so on.
And you'll hear his followers repeat his successes even when there was no success. He's so good at believing that he becomes convincing.



2 years ago: I don't think Trump has any military leaders on his side except for a couple like Kelly. There will not be a military coup. ...
Riots and domestic terrorism? On a small scale this is possible. Especially if Trump is impeached and he's got so many people believing in the Deep State and the rest of his alt-reality.



The problem with the 'danger posed' argument is that until Trump does something that causes large-scale serious harm, the question can always be argued.
I think he's done numerous serious small harms and his NPD is contributing.



His decisions are atrocious, taking babies and young kids from their families, Completely screwing up the environment. Installing judges that will be bad for all of us over time. He's doing these things because he gets adulation from people for it.


I have posted examples of predictions all born out. Try searching for the term "he can't help himself" in my posts. (I couldn't search the threads because it won't recognize the whole phrase.)


... He acts impulsively, sure. But the kicker is, he is obsessed with his ego and revenge to the point it controls his actions.


"I predict that we'll see further instances of the same thing, therefore I seriously believe that Trump is extremely dangerous." (Wm Seger)

Yep, like this one: President Trump Was 'Directly Involved' in Hunt for Tweeter of Inauguration Crowd Photo.
And this one: Trump Administration’s Attack On Free Speech Sets A Dangerous Precedent
Links embedded.


Decisions are all based on what will help Trump. A power grab is not one of those things. Pretending he won the election, but not a coup.
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:54 PM   #1288
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If that was all it was I wouldn’t have bothered posting. I refer you to post 1 of this multi-part thread. I also refer you to the many Skeptic Ginger posts talking about how a diagnosis is predictive.

I think there’s enough evidence to show that he prolly needs to be checked out. There is not enough to say that he has any particular mental illness.
Holy crap, Batman. What alternate planet are you living on?
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Old 17th November 2020, 03:55 PM   #1289
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Excellent video explaining the difference between a narcissist, sociopath and psychopath. Not too long.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

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Old 19th November 2020, 02:16 PM   #1290
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Dr Lee weighs in again pointing out that their fears have come to fruition, that all the observable evidence in the last 4 years by far is superior to any in-person eval and how dangerous the next 2 weeks are going to be. It's an eye opening piece addressing how Trump's diagnosis is going to direct his actions.

Hold Up in the White House, Trump Rages; Finally, He Feels Shame
Quote:
Quote:
While we cannot read a person’s mind, mental health professionals have an excellent understanding of Donald Trump, thanks to the more abundant and higher-quality information available about him than almost any patient we have ever treated. Direct reports from close associates about their interactions with him, under sworn testimony, from the highest-order criminal investigations are just one example. Personal interviews are of little value at best and misleading at worst with the kind of pathology in Donald Trump.

Since dozens of mental health experts put together our bestselling public-service book, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump, at the start of this presidency, all our warnings have been realized, almost as if on schedule. We now feel the need to warn again—against his rage. We have done so before and were on the mark ... We knew what the outcome of his disastrous mishandling of the coronavirus pandemic would become, before it happened, as our blow-by-blow account reveals. When we speak of his rage, we do not mean any garden-variety rage but the kind pathological narcissism portends, with any level of destruction....

He would rather wreak havoc and revenge on the nation and the next administration than to allow them to succeed, all for having rebuffed him. Hell hath no fury like a pathological narcissist scorned.
He's not planning a coup, he's planning his revenge.
According to CNN, it's being reported from sources "in the know" that Trump knows he lost the election but that he's seeking a 'tit for tat' revenge on the Dems for what he sees as their attempt to delegitimize his win in 2016 with the "Russia hoax". Knowing how petty and vengeful Trump is, I can see that.
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Old 19th November 2020, 03:18 PM   #1291
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
According to CNN, it's being reported from sources "in the know" that Trump knows he lost the election but that he's seeking a 'tit for tat' revenge on the Dems for what he sees as their attempt to delegitimize his win in 2016 with the "Russia hoax". Knowing how petty and vengeful Trump is, I can see that.
If I were to guess (and, obviously, I'm about to), I would guess that Trump will be more vengeful toward Republicans who he believes were disloyal to him or failed him.
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Old 19th November 2020, 06:33 PM   #1292
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
If I were to guess (and, obviously, I'm about to), I would guess that Trump will be more vengeful toward Republicans who he believes were disloyal to him or failed him.
Trump is an equal opportunity psycho at this point. Everyone who isn't his lickspittle at this point is going to be his target.
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Old 21st November 2020, 11:06 PM   #1293
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
If I were to guess (and, obviously, I'm about to), I would guess that Trump will be more vengeful toward Republicans who he believes were disloyal to him or failed him.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump is an equal opportunity psycho at this point. Everyone who isn't his lickspittle at this point is going to be his target.
There is no doubt Trump has more than enough vengeance to go around.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 02:19 AM   #1294
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He is wired differently.

Sharpiegate proves that beyond doubt. He spent 5 days trying to tell people he was right.

And his his disappointment and vexation that his Nobel Prize nomination wasn’t the lead story because of a hurricane hitting Florida.

And his insistence that he set attendance records in many of the 15,000 seat venues he spoke at. He repeatedly asserted that the local fire marsalls let people in after it was filled to capacity. In each case, the next day the fire marshalls explained that they did not let in people to fill the stadium beyond capacity.

ETA
Covfefe. A simple typo. We all make them. But not the great and powerful Trump. He instructed his press secretary to say “ I think the president and a small group of people know exactly what he meant."


..............
Many people, when facing death, say “I wish I had spent more time telling the people I loved how important they were to me.”

Trump is the kind of person who would sincerely say “I wish I had spent more time telling the people I hated how much I despised them.”
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Old 22nd November 2020, 01:35 PM   #1295
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He's a sociopath, no doubt about it. His behavior since the election is about as sociopathic as it comes.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:00 PM   #1296
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
He's a sociopath, no doubt about it. His behavior since the election is about as sociopathic as it comes.
He flew to ElPaso Texas to comfort survivors, console grieving relatives, and praise the first responders and medical staff. When speaking to doctors and nurses, he brought up his campaign rally earlier in the year by claiming he had twice the number of attendees outside the arena as inside. (and he still hasn’t paid the Bill on that rally)

He is incapable of empathy.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 03:36 PM   #1297
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You do just what they did, you describe Trump's pathology and list some of the possible things it might result in. The risk would depend on the crises that might come up during Trump's term. No one said Trump was going to go out guns blazing and start a nuclear war.Why would he?

His pathology is that whatever crises occur, Trump will only care about himself. And we've seen this throughout the last 4 years. Trump only cares about Trump to an extreme degree.

What did you think the danger would be?

Are you not aware how badly Trump has mishandled the COVID pandemic? He said it would go away because in his pathological little mind that is what he fantasized.

He admitted he didn't wear a mask because he didn't think he looked good in it.

He has doled out PPE, grants, whatever he has control over to punish anyone who didn't sing his praises.

And what about his constant lying, even when he didn't need to like about his crowd size at the inauguration?


Here, let me fix it for you:

"Holed Up in the White House, Trump Rages; Finally, He Feels Shame."

It sounds like a Nostradamus Quatrain. That is probably a title the publisher chose.


Now he can't admit he lost so he is refusing to proceed with the change over of the guard.
All of that is true. But IMO all of that would be greatly mitigated if he didn't have the ability to hold 90 percent of the Republican Party totally in his thrall. But even worse, I didn't anticipate the degree of slavish devotion from his followers. I always knew he would appeal to a certain segment but not to nearly half the country. People would see how much he lies and simply not look to him for factual information. The novelty would wear off and he would lose support. The danger turned out not to be him, but the 73 million people who would vote for 4 more years of this nonsense. (If they did).
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Old 22nd November 2020, 05:01 PM   #1298
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
He flew to ElPaso Texas to comfort survivors, console grieving relatives, and praise the first responders and medical staff. When speaking to doctors and nurses, he brought up his campaign rally earlier in the year by claiming he had twice the number of attendees outside the arena as inside. (and he still hasn’t paid the Bill on that rally)

He is incapable of empathy.
He didn't go to El Paso to comfort or console anyone. He flew to El Paso to put on a show of comforting and consoling people to make himself look good. As usual, it was all about him.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 05:07 PM   #1299
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
All of that is true. But IMO all of that would be greatly mitigated if he didn't have the ability to hold 90 percent of the Republican Party totally in his thrall. But even worse, I didn't anticipate the degree of slavish devotion from his followers. I always knew he would appeal to a certain segment but not to nearly half the country. People would see how much he lies and simply not look to him for factual information. The novelty would wear off and he would lose support. The danger turned out not to be him, but the 73 million people who would vote for 4 more years of this nonsense. (If they did).
To some degree this did happen. A lot of Republicans voted for Biden over Trump but still down voted Republican on the rest of their ballots. We see this in the increase in the GOP seats in the House and I think the two Georgia senate seats will be retained by the GOP despite Loeffler being batcrap nuts and Perdue crooked as the letter Z. Still, it is concerning just how many Republicans remain loyal to such a sociopathic piece of human excrement.
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Old 22nd November 2020, 07:49 PM   #1300
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
He didn't go to El Paso to comfort or console anyone. He flew to El Paso to put on a show of comforting and consoling people to make himself look good. As usual, it was all about him.
Exactly.

I assert that he literally does not know the definitions of those words.
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Old 24th November 2020, 07:42 PM   #1301
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Doc Lee weighs in again:
Quote:
The president’s dangerousness is no longer debatable. Our warnings have now been realized exactly as we said they would four years ago, as if on schedule, with abundant real-life evidence. When the right information became available, a peer-reviewed panel of independent experts performed a standardized assessment of mental capacity, to the highest rigor possible, in which the president failed every criterion. This means he would be unfit for any job, let alone president. Our evaluation fully predicted that he would disastrously mismanage a pandemic, as our blow-by-blow account shows.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/transitio...081510514.html
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Old 24th November 2020, 08:15 PM   #1302
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This is the paragraph from that link I find vindicates all of us decrying the Goldwater Rule:
Quote:
We need to get back to basics. Painter stated at our conference: “the Goldwater rule … is a violation of your First Amendment rights, and a violation of your duty to your country and to human civilization.” It is a basic understanding that to remain silent against a critical medical need is a violation of our professional “responsibility to society,” as outlined in the first paragraph of the preamble of our ethics code. The APA should no longer mislead the public and the media into believing that its guild rule of restricting speech on public figures, which no other mental health association has and is not admissible on any state licensing board, is universal. The truly universal Declaration of Geneva says that we must prevent harm and injustice, especially when they are coming from a destructive government.
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Old 24th November 2020, 08:23 PM   #1303
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The APA doubles down, ignoring the facts and addressing straw men instead.

Up to the people, not the medical profession, to oust Trump: APA chief
Quote:
The Goldwater Rule, as it applies to the members of the American Psychiatric Association, is meant to protect the dignity of the patients we serve by ensuring that the label of mental illness is not bandied about as a weapon in the political arena. Diagnosing any political figure without knowing them as a patient cheapens the science and sets a dangerous precedent for stigmatizing practices moving forward.

It is up to the American people to let their politicians know how they feel about the behavior of the president and not to psychiatrists to influence who should and should not remain in power absent an authorized request for medical evaluation.
Dr Lee et al were not doing any ousting, they were following their conscience re a duty to warn.

It cheapens the science to sit on something so important to the country and the world.
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Old 24th November 2020, 11:04 PM   #1304
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The APA doubles down, ignoring the facts and addressing straw men instead.

Up to the people, not the medical profession, to oust Trump: APA chief


Dr Lee et al were not doing any ousting, they were following their conscience re a duty to warn.

It cheapens the science to sit on something so important to the country and the world.
Exactly.
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:05 AM   #1305
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Dr. Mary Trump weighs in:
Quote:
But when it comes to insisting the 2020 election was stolen from him, two people who know Trump very personally tell VICE News he’s not just trying to fool us; he’s also fooling himself.

“He’s the only person I’ve ever met who can gaslight himself,” Mary Trump, a clinical psychologist and critic of her uncle, told VICE News in an interview on Monday. “I don’t think he’s ever accepted the truth of the loss. I don't think he’s psychologically or emotionally capable of that.”

Michael Cohen, Trump’s estranged former personal attorney who spent 15 years at Trump’s elbow, takes the same view. “It’s the difference between a [bs] artist and a sociopath,” Cohen told VICE News. “Donald Trump is a sociopath, because he does believe his own [bs].”
.....

“If Donald feels rejected by the American people, he’s not going to distinguish people who voted for him from people who didn’t,” Mary Trump said. “He’s going to take all of us down with him.”
https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgq5...ary-trump-says
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:23 AM   #1306
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I had to laugh today when Trump told us “Don’t let him (Biden) take credit for the vaccines because the vaccines were me and I pushed people harder than they’ve ever been pushed before."

I think this sentence demonstrates his sick extreme narcissism so well. It's classic Trump.
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Old 27th November 2020, 07:31 PM   #1307
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Does anyone else think the fact that he did his latest press conference behind a little desk looks like a way of handling one of his neurological symptoms? He didn't do previous press conferences that way, so the sudden change asks for explanation, and he's been developing an odd way of twisting & bending to one side when standing at a podium, clutching the podium as if he might otherwise fall over sideways, which sitting eliminates most or all of.
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Old 27th November 2020, 07:41 PM   #1308
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Does anyone else think the fact that he did his latest press conference behind a little desk looks like a way of handling one of his neurological symptoms? He didn't do previous press conferences that way, so the sudden change asks for explanation, and he's been developing an odd way of twisting & bending to one side when standing at a podium, clutching the podium as if he might otherwise fall over sideways, which sitting eliminates most or all of.
Who knows with him? I'm just glad he'll be out in about 50 days and we won't have to deal with him anymore.
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Old 27th November 2020, 08:05 PM   #1309
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Does anyone else think the fact that he did his latest press conference behind a little desk looks like a way of handling one of his neurological symptoms? He didn't do previous press conferences that way, so the sudden change asks for explanation, and he's been developing an odd way of twisting & bending to one side when standing at a podium, clutching the podium as if he might otherwise fall over sideways, which sitting eliminates most or all of.

Perhaps he thought it would make him look huge, like when Putin rode that mini horse.
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Old 27th November 2020, 10:19 PM   #1310
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Just listened to a podcast with Noel Casler who worked with Trump on The Apprentice.

Trump wears three inch lifts which is why he leans forward and has a "girdle" on, which is why he looks stiff.

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It's over an hour and I wasn't going to watch/listen to the whole thing but I found myself interested to the end. I fact checked some of the things he said like Ivanka used to sit on Trump's lap well into being a teen and sure enough, you can find images of that online. (Don't be fooled by the one with Epstein that Snopes reveals is photoshopped. There are plenty more.)

And what he said about the girdle and lifts fits what we can see.

He said the sniffling was both cocaine and Adderall.

The only thing I'm not sure of was Trump being incontinent of both feces and urine. But I'm going to look at the meeting with Erdogan where supposedly you can hear it. I'll post an update.

I can't find anything to corroborate this so I'm going to say this is bigly uncertain. Could just be 'locker room talk'.
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:04 PM   #1311
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he wears a girdle and his gut is still that massive lol

the appearance altering stuff i'd buy, he's very obsessed with his image. but i'm not sure Trump does drugs and poops his pants tho, that seems a little too TMZ for me
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Old 27th November 2020, 11:22 PM   #1312
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My Low Plausibility alarm is blinking. I'm sure 3" soles would have been noticed by lots of other people. The show even sometimes had shots with the feet visible.

Last edited by Delvo; 27th November 2020 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 28th November 2020, 01:15 AM   #1313
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
My Low Plausibility alarm is blinking. I'm sure 3" soles would have been noticed by lots of other people. The show even sometimes had shots with the feet visible.
I don't know anything about Trump's sartorial choices, but shoes can be built with lifts inside so they're not obvious. It might explain why Trump is often seen leaning forward oddly.
http://www.elevatorshoes.com/thumbnail.asp?cid=8

Or that might mean something else.
https://www.salon.com/2020/10/22/pre...xpert_partner/

Last edited by Bob001; 28th November 2020 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 28th November 2020, 01:50 AM   #1314
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
he wears a girdle and his gut is still that massive lol

the appearance altering stuff i'd buy, he's very obsessed with his image. but i'm not sure Trump does drugs and poops his pants tho, that seems a little too TMZ for me
I'm not convinced he poops his pants either. But not much else explains his sniffing during speeches except drugs whether they be cocaine or Adderall or both. Do you have an alternative explanation?
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Old 28th November 2020, 01:52 AM   #1315
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
My Low Plausibility alarm is blinking. I'm sure 3" soles would have been noticed by lots of other people. The show even sometimes had shots with the feet visible.
But it's obvious he stands funny, like a board leaning forward. Again, what else explains that except lifts? It's not the soles, the lifts go inside the shoes.
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Old 28th November 2020, 01:58 AM   #1316
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I don't know anything about Trump's sartorial choices, but shoes can be built with lifts inside so they're not obvious. It might explain why Trump is often seen leaning forward oddly.
http://www.elevatorshoes.com/thumbnail.asp?cid=8

Or that might mean something else.
https://www.salon.com/2020/10/22/pre...xpert_partner/
I'm not seeing all those neurodegenerative explanations when lifts in his shoes are a simpler explanation. Why someone 6' tall thinks he needs lifts is pretty odd though.
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Old 28th November 2020, 02:34 AM   #1317
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm not seeing all those neurodegenerative explanations when lifts in his shoes are a simpler explanation. Why someone 6' tall thinks he needs lifts is pretty odd though.
Could it be that Ivanka is taller than he is?
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Old 28th November 2020, 03:05 AM   #1318
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Could it be that Ivanka is taller than he is?
That's an interesting thought.
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Old 28th November 2020, 05:01 AM   #1319
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's an interesting thought.
In fact, I have a feeling that Ivana too was taller than he was. Perhaps that is when he began wearing lifts.
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Old 28th November 2020, 01:37 PM   #1320
Bob001
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm not seeing all those neurodegenerative explanations when lifts in his shoes are a simpler explanation. Why someone 6' tall thinks he needs lifts is pretty odd though.
Could be both in his case. Women certainly wear high heels and platforms without looking like they're falling over.
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