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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 12th November 2020, 06:04 PM   #161
AnonyMoose
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With today's statement by the DHS, I wonder if the GOP will now start slowly jumping off SS Wackjob one by one? Do they lack the anal fortitude of following this thing through? Or is this the hill they've chosen to die on?

Stay tuned in tomorrow kiddies for another exciting episode of "As the Trumpland Turns"!

Same bat time. Same bat channel.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:08 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
No, not "Yhis"!

SG said the Trump Cult was shrinking. Do you see any evidence of this? I don't.

I'm not claiming that the votes necessarily represent the Cult of Trump, but the fact he got 10 million votes more this time than last time does NOT suggest to me that his Cult is shrinking.

Oh, but they think Biden is worse? Seriously, who is thinking this? How deluded would you have to be to think that not only is Biden worse than Trump, but after 4 years of a Trump administration, you come to that conclusion? Not only do they think Biden is so bad they would rather have Trump but 10 million more people think that than they thought about Hillary Clinton?

No, if you think the Cult is shrinking, then show your evidence. Because it looks more like a case of invasion of the bodysnatchers. People who used to be against Trump and had every reason to be against Trump are now in favour of him... Ted Cruz, despite having his wife mocked by Trump is now one of his hatchet men. Lindsey Graham, despite what he said about him at the beginning of the last administration? The Trump train convoys? He even has his own Cult of Personality network in OAN.

How is this Cult shrinking?
If you define the cult as the hard core Trump minions who will always believe the deep state stole the election, that base isn't shrinking.

But everyone who voted for and/or really really likes Trump and believes his con-job are not hard core Trump minions. Those are the people who are slowly but surely abandoning Trump and accepting Biden won the election.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:09 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I don't believe that. Trump doesn't do anything for anyone else. Everything he does is for himself.
Yes. I think he's filling his pockets from fund-raising... plus being a petty jackass, of course.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:10 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Fortunately, Trump's base is shrinking, not growing.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
If you define the cult as the hard core Trump minions who will always believe the deep state stole the election, that base isn't shrinking.

But everyone who voted for and/or really really likes Trump and believes his con-job are not hard core Trump minions. Those are the people who are slowly but surely abandoning Trump and accepting Biden won the election.
Thank you. I’ll take that as a retraction.

As for the rest. I need to see some evidence of them slowly but surely accepting the Biden win.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:12 PM   #165
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To me it’s looking like Trump took the steps he could to try and retain power as unlikely as it was, and the GOP sat on the fence with a wait and see approach. But as time goes on it’s looking like he is unable to do so, and they’re starting to come out publicly.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:13 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The claim that the Cult is shrinking is not mine. It is SG’s! How does she support her claim? That’s where the onus is!

She even points to the fact that 60% of Republicans don’t accept the result! That’s ridiculously high, and likely moving in the wrong direction. I am not going to accept Emily’s Cat’s bromides either.
According to Trump that was 95%, so 60% of Republicans is way down.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:14 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This: "Pennsylvania rank and file lawmakers demand legislative audit before certifying election results" is not the same as, or even close to the assertion these legislators are planning to overturn the voters in their state and send their own electors to give PA to Trump.
If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors?

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Also, I can't find anything in that article that alleges that they're quoting from someone within Trump's team. The quotes are predominantly coming from "a lawyer" who "knows how this works". And even those quotes are hypotheticals from that lawyer.
I believe the article said the lawyer was "familiar with the process" of how the Trump campaign could prevent state certifications from taking place. You may well be right, though, they don't come out and say where their background source is working right now. (I'm guessing Jones Day has heard of NDAs.)
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:15 PM   #168
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And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge! To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow.

Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:15 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
?????

State governors? the Senate? The Supreme Court? The President? How many divisions does the President have?
There's no evidence the SCOTUS is going to overturn the election and install Trump.

The others do not have the power to support a coup.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:15 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors?
SCOTUS ultimately.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:16 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
According to Trump that was 95%, so 60% of Republicans is way down.
“according to Trump”? FFS!
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:18 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It’s not “baby steps”. That’s not Trump coming round to accepting his defeat. That is his aide saying “there’s nothing to see here!”

If you want to see Trump’s baby steps then check out his Twitter feed!
From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway.

And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:20 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway.

And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance.
Why do you trust the word of his aide? How do we know the aide was faithfully representing his words?

And what makes you think that people actually always go through the stages of denial in predictable and reliable stages anyway?
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:20 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Thank you. I’ll take that as a retraction.

As for the rest. I need to see some evidence of them slowly but surely accepting the Biden win.
You want a retraction because we are using a different definition of hard core and base?

Whatever.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:21 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
SCOTUS ultimately.
I think the Republican legislators get to have a say first.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:23 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors?
Is that the plan? Is there any evidence that is the plan?

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I believe the article said the lawyer was "familiar with the process" of how the Trump campaign could prevent state certifications from taking place. You may well be right, though, they don't come out and say where their background source is working right now. (I'm guessing Jones Day has heard of NDAs.)
The process aka hypothetically this is one way they might carry out this hypothetical plan.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:25 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
“according to Trump”? FFS!
So 60% of Republicans are in Trumps base and that's always been the number?

Really?
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:34 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So 60% of Republicans are in Trumps base and that's always been the number?

Really?
I never said that. That’s desperate.

I said I see no evidence his base is shrinking. You were the one arguing otherwise.

Now you are arguing that Trump is slowly accepting his loss. I see no evidence of that either.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:36 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is that the plan? Is there any evidence that is the plan?
I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:43 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge!
You don't understand. Most of them aren't Trump supporters. If he didn't have an 'R' next to his name they wouldn't even know who he was.


Quote:
To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow.
No, they will only grow until the futility of their stance becomes obvious, then the majority will give it up.


Quote:
Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this.
Not sure what you mean, but republicans taking a while to accept the reality of a Biden presidency is not something we have to worry about. A few nutjobs who were always around? Perhaps. Trump and his minions? Definitely. But not the majority of republicans.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:47 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through.
I hope it's a good plan, because I am itching to put a bullet through someone. Can't have civil war without a good reason!
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:58 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
No, you're extrapolating here. People voting for Trump to be president doesn't in any fashion imply that those people would support him illegally hanging on to the position in opposition to a legitimate election.
And yet his approval rating has improved since the election.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/

If there were any truth to your suggestion, clearly his ratings would have tanked, and we see the exact opposite.

They don't see it as illegal, either.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You'll figure it out.
Ah, so much easier than presenting evidence.

You claim Trump's support is shrinking, using the exact same amount of evidence behind Trump's lawsuits - zero.

If you don't wish to just retract your claim, present evidence that shows there's any shrinkage to his support.

Remember, this is a bloke who has openly and proudly claimed to pay as little tax as possible, admitted to sexual assault, abused a Gold Star family and enabled Proud Boys and racists, among a huge litany of crimes again mankind. Why do you think these people who have stuck with him all the way will suddenly desert him?

They believe what he's saying about the election being stolen and will continue to support him, and going by the early poll results, possibly even more than they did last month.
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Old 12th November 2020, 06:59 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Ending democracy would totally trigger the snowflake libs
Democracy is evil. So bad, in fact, that the name the Democrat Party after it!
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:06 PM   #184
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Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund. The rest, IIRC, goes to retiring his election debts. Which is probably exactly why he's doing all this. He just wants to vacuum up all the money he can before he slinks off.
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:14 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I think the Republican legislators get to have a say first.
Not really. There is no "legislative audit" in the election rules. That is something they made up. The only way to stop the certification process is via an injunction from a court.
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:14 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund.
That only applies to those donations over $8000. Under that amount, none of it goes his vote-counting fund.
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:17 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Apparently only 50% of each donation to his vote-counting fund goes towards the actual vote-counting fund. The rest, IIRC, goes to retiring his election debts. Which is probably exactly why he's doing all this. He just wants to vacuum up all the money he can before he slinks off.
The way I read it, it was 60% for his campaign debts and 40% for his 2024 campaign. None of the lawsuits are actually being filed by him, so they'd be paid by the RNC and others. I don't think he's paying for any recounts, either. Looks like a pure cash grab. He'll pocket whatever he can.
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:40 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Not sure what you mean, but republicans taking a while to accept the reality of a Biden presidency is not something we have to worry about. A few nutjobs who were always around? Perhaps. Trump and his minions? Definitely. But not the majority of republicans.
Yeah, why should we not trust the Republicans to do the right thing?

Well, apart from every reason they have given for not trusting them since, say, the tail-end of the Obama administration.
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:49 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Baby steps.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
From what I see, Trump is coming around from Denial to Anger to Bargaining and toward Acceptance. You will never see that in Trump's own words, not in public anyway.

And he's likely to fluctuate a bit between denial/anger and (reluctant) acceptance.
Here's Trump "accepting" reluctantly, I suppose:

Quote:
“REPORT: DOMINION DELETED 2.7 MILLION TRUMP VOTES NATIONWIDE. DATA ANALYSIS FINDS 221,000 PENNSYLVANIA VOTES SWITCHED FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO BIDEN. 941,000 TRUMP VOTES DELETED. STATES USING DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS SWITCHED 435,000 VOTES FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.”
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:55 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
And also notice that we are back to talking about the numbers of people who voted for him after initially arguing that those should not be seen as his supporters and yet those were beyond 72 million people. Four or five million more than ever voted for Obama in an election. Those numbers are huge! To argue that a mere 60% of them or even a mere 40% or a mere 30% of them refuse to accept the result, we are talking massive numbers and you can bet that the more times they repeat the mantra that the election was stolen the more you can expect that to grow.

Anyway you cut it, the complacency of some around here is altogether the wrong way to think about this.
Did'nt you just criticise me for biing an alarmaist?
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Old 12th November 2020, 08:26 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Did'nt you just criticise me for biing an alarmaist?
I criticized you for the get your guns and ammo and get ready for the Civil War drumbeat that you have been beating for four years. It's been a constant mantra from you, has it not?

What I am saying, is that the Republicans are not showing much sign of accepting the result of the election, and people need to be aware of that.

Do you disagree with either of those points?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 12th November 2020, 08:54 PM   #192
Minoosh
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
To be honest, it is hard to determine why he got more votes. Did amount of deplorables among republicans grew? Or maybe they were just more inclined to vote in 2020?

How do you distinguish these two cases? Note some mix of both is also possible.
Maybe in 2016 they didn't realize you have to be registered in order to vote.
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Old 12th November 2020, 09:06 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't expect the GOP will tell us the plan to steal the election until they start putting it through.
Which makes it hypothetical!
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Old 12th November 2020, 09:09 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Here's Trump "accepting" reluctantly, I suppose:
Did you miss where I said you won't ever see him concede or give up in what he says (including Tweets)?
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Old 12th November 2020, 09:19 PM   #195
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Arizona just called for Biden.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 12th November 2020, 09:21 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I criticized you for the get your guns and ammo and get ready for the Civil War drumbeat that you have been beating for four years. It's been a constant mantra from you, has it not?

What I am saying, is that the Republicans are not showing much sign of accepting the result of the election, and people need to be aware of that.

Do you disagree with either of those points?
Question is how much of that is just posturing to convince Trump to campaign in Georiga to win the runoffs in Janueay.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 12th November 2020, 09:53 PM   #197
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Did you miss where I said you won't ever see him concede or give up in what he says (including Tweets)?
Exactly, so now we can stop believing that tweet quoting the aide that Trump is "very aware there is not a path to victory,", instead of taking it at face value and praising him for his baby steps.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Question is how much of that is just posturing to convince Trump to campaign in Georiga to win the runoffs in Janueay.
I have no idea. And from which reliable source did you extract this theory?
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 12th November 2020, 10:24 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Exactly, so now we can stop believing that tweet quoting the aide that Trump is "very aware there is not a path to victory,", instead of taking it at face value and praising him for his baby steps. ...
Right because everyone who Tweets is a whacked out as Trump.
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Old 12th November 2020, 10:39 PM   #199
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Right because everyone who Tweets is a whacked out as Trump.
Huh??? What are you talking about?

You are using the Tweets from a journalist quoting an aide as evidence that Trump is taking baby steps to accepting a loss.

My point is that this is not evidence!!!
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 13th November 2020, 12:36 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Democracy is evil. So bad, in fact, that the name the Democrat Party after it!
It's all hidden in there:

Democrats

Democracy
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