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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 15th November 2020, 08:43 AM   #281
thaiboxerken
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It appears that Trump was trying to find support for an attempt at a Coup. I'm happy that he did not find that support. I think it's because he's a LOSER! LOL. Loser Trump. Donald Lame Duck.
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Old 15th November 2020, 09:07 AM   #282
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Old 15th November 2020, 09:09 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
That may be, but do you think that's because he's the president?

ETA: I mean, eventually he may be indistinguishable from someone's crazy screaming uncle.
Of course it's because he's the president. His words will have less meaning when he's given the boot, but he will always be a former president. The press reported Bush's unremarkable comments about Biden's victory because his words still carry weight. They're newsworthy. This is more so the case for Trump, who is poised to "lead" a movement (yes, it's actually just a self-glorifcation project).
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Old 15th November 2020, 12:07 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Of course it's because he's the president. His words will have less meaning when he's given the boot, but he will always be a former president. The press reported Bush's unremarkable comments about Biden's victory because his words still carry weight. They're newsworthy. This is more so the case for Trump, who is poised to "lead" a movement (yes, it's actually just a self-glorifcation project).
Being a former president does garner some attention, but if George W had a twitter account (does he? I don't even know) it certainly wouldn't have near the traffic of Trump's. If George W. had one and broke all their rules, I doubt they would give him a pass because of his former preisdent status and the traffic that drives.

There's no shortage of celebrities on Twitter and they've been happy to permanently suspend a fair amount of them. Trump may retain a celebrity status out of office, but I'd be surprised if a year out he still commanded anything in the vicinity of his current traffic.

They've had no problem banning Steve Bannon, David Icke, David Duke and many others with significant followings.

I suspect that, regardless of what Trump tries to do out of office, most of the party will move on to a new figurehead. He may keep a loyal core, but if he stays out of prison, I suspect he''l be slightly more popular that Sarah Palin within four years. That wouldn't make him too much of a cash cow.
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Old 16th November 2020, 01:22 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
<snip>

That wouldn't make him too much of a cash cow.
More Golden Goose, surely. Boston Matrix will have to add 'Golden Goose' to their labelling. More useless business jargon meaning: 'Ousted CEO who tweets in his spare time, 'I WON!'

Investment advice: 'Steer clear of this one and invest in the new one. Remember, the Golden Goose ended up badly.'
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Old 16th November 2020, 06:04 AM   #286
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Relevant article in which they talk to Larry Lessig:
https://www.dailyposter.com/p/how-pence-and-gop-senators-could
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Old 16th November 2020, 06:39 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
Relevant article in which they talk to Larry Lessig:
https://www.dailyposter.com/p/how-pence-and-gop-senators-could
Very concerning.

It ain't over 'til it's over.

GOP senators have shown that they're willing to do whatever they can to keep President Trump in post.
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Old 16th November 2020, 09:53 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Very concerning.

It ain't over 'til it's over.

GOP senators have shown that they're willing to do whatever they can to keep President Trump in post.
Yes. As I have indicated here, I am not reassured by "it's against the rules" or by the fact that various state level Republican politicians have said they will not do that. Clearly, people say one thing & do another all the time and laws and conventions only work if they are enforced (and statements made by politicians are subject to revision at a later time).

I still think that we are not heading that way (if nothing else, the demented Rudy Giuliani being in charge of the legal effort is very reassuring ). I think 5.5 million votes and the 306 Electoral College result might make the difference. However, I also think the same politicians and a 3 million popular vote difference with a smaller (but clear) Electoral College difference might be more amenable to the subversion of the electorate by these folk.

It is extremely troubling, in any case, that US House & Senate Republicans are playing this for advantage. These are politicians who are showing themselves willing to subvert the electorate. Potentially, only the state level politicians are preventing this from actually executing (in the meantime the US legislative level Republicans are egging on extremists).
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Old 16th November 2020, 12:47 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
Relevant article in which they talk to Larry Lessig:
https://www.dailyposter.com/p/how-pence-and-gop-senators-could

Damn, that's a scary read.

What are the odds that enough of the GOP will jump on board with this?
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Old 16th November 2020, 12:53 PM   #290
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If they do, they will start a second civil war.
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Old 16th November 2020, 01:07 PM   #291
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Those Senators can support Trump all they want to, it doesn't change the fact there is no power behind the curtains. The military is not backing this imaginary coup.
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Old 16th November 2020, 01:11 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Those Senators can support Trump all they want to, it doesn't change the fact there is no power behind the curtains. The military is not backing this imaginary coup.
But will it overthrow congress if the senate does that? Will the military install Biden if the political mechanism don't?
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Old 16th November 2020, 01:19 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But will it overthrow congress if the senate does that? Will the military install Biden if the political mechanism don't?
All they have to do is for the Aide carrying the nuclear football to not show up one morning at the White House an instead start hanging out with Biden.
I'm pretty sure even the Republicans will get the message.
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Old 16th November 2020, 02:40 PM   #294
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many republicans have signaled they recognize a biden victory even as they placate Trump's delicate feelings
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Old 16th November 2020, 03:00 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But will it overthrow congress if the senate does that? Will the military install Biden if the political mechanism don't?
Is this a joke?

I don't get it.
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Old 16th November 2020, 03:55 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is this a joke?

I don't get it.
Did you read the Lessig interview linked above?
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Old 17th November 2020, 12:23 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Did you read the Lessig interview linked above?
Quote:
The unlikely-but-possible scenario revolves around the prospect of competing slates of electors
This has been discussed ad nauseum. The state legislators said they were not going to do this.

It would seem the fear mongering is still selling the news.
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Old 17th November 2020, 12:45 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This has been discussed ad nauseum. The state legislators said they were not going to do this.

It would seem the fear mongering is still selling the news.
If Republican leaders came out and said that Joe Biden is the President elect then there'd be much less traction for this kind of thing. Instead we have them supporting President Trump, echoing his "every legal vote", supporting his lawsuits and making reference to a second Trump term.

People would be more sanguine about an orderly transfer of power if the GOP seemed at all interested in it. Instead they seem to be doing everything they can to obstruct and frustrate. At the moment it's "just" not allowing the release of funds for the transition and not allowing Joe Biden access to security briefings - in part because the US public aren't making a big deal out of it.

If they (they in this case being both the national Republican leadership and the state leaders in those states) think that the blowback will be worth it, then why not take these entirely legal steps ?

edited to add......

We've heard it so many times in recent years, "They won't/can't do that". Whether it's refusing even to consider a SCOTUS nominee and then forcing through another in similar circumstances, the myriad cases of President Trump behaving in ways which would have bene previously unthinkable or embracing groups who would otherwise be anathema to the party, the GOP is breaking new ground all the time.

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Old 17th November 2020, 04:07 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is this a joke?

I don't get it.
You said they would not install Trump but in the event that the coup language moves up to actual coup, would they stand against it or stand asside?

Right now we have the situation where they seem to be laying the ground work for a coup that they seem to be not serious about, but there is no internal blowback from the laying the groundwork for a coup.
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Old 17th November 2020, 04:15 AM   #300
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History repeats itself. No one took seriously Hitler or Stalin at beginning too.
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Old 17th November 2020, 05:29 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This has been discussed ad nauseum. The state legislators said they were not going to do this.
Trust their word if you like; I'm old enough to remember when Republican legislators emphatically insisted they would never push a SCOTUS pick through during an election.
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Old 17th November 2020, 05:45 AM   #302
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Trump's meritless legal challenges seem to be going down the toilet, and there seems to be very little chance that even our partisan SCOTUS is going to give Trump the relief he demands here.

These legal moonshots aside, that just leaves the more naked power grab options. Eyes on the states with Republican controlled legislatures that Biden won to see if they will refuse to certify the electors. Any such move will have little to do with legality and more to do with the naked use of power by a minoritarian government intent on retaining control.

It should be clear that any such move is the open abandonment of any meaningful Democratic process and the only effective way to counter a coup is widespread public unrest.
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Old 17th November 2020, 05:49 AM   #303
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Timeline for certification in PA: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...eline/2592719/
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Old 17th November 2020, 05:56 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If Republican leaders came out and said that Joe Biden is the President elect then there'd be much less traction for this kind of thing. Instead we have them supporting President Trump, echoing his "every legal vote", supporting his lawsuits and making reference to a second Trump term.

People would be more sanguine about an orderly transfer of power if the GOP seemed at all interested in it. Instead they seem to be doing everything they can to obstruct and frustrate. At the moment it's "just" not allowing the release of funds for the transition and not allowing Joe Biden access to security briefings - in part because the US public aren't making a big deal out of it.

If they (they in this case being both the national Republican leadership and the state leaders in those states) think that the blowback will be worth it, then why not take these entirely legal steps ?

edited to add......

We've heard it so many times in recent years, "They won't/can't do that". Whether it's refusing even to consider a SCOTUS nominee and then forcing through another in similar circumstances, the myriad cases of President Trump behaving in ways which would have bene previously unthinkable or embracing groups who would otherwise be anathema to the party, the GOP is breaking new ground all the time.
A few GOP leaders have begun to make some cautious noises indicating acceptance of Biden's win- Rubio referred to Biden as President-elect, for one. (The Hill article via MSN) Senator Risch from Idaho came up with an analogy for the transition that kind of struck me-
Quote:
"This is my second transition where we move from one political party to another in the White House," he said Friday, describing the incoming administration as having "an entirely different feeling or dynamic."

"It is a change in the music that is playing in the background. We go from heavy metal to classical music in one fell swoop," he added.
(Donald Trump as heavy metal- and not the heavy metal I grew up with, more the cacophonous mess with one-note sludge on guitars and guttural growls passing for vocals that seems so popular these days, and you kids get offa my damn lawn!)

But I think the game going forward will be to paint Biden's Presidency as somehow tainted by the allegations of fraud that they themselves, as a party, are responsible for. It'll become a self-feeding and self-serving narrative- Biden narrowly won- and never mind that his EC count will be the same as the one Trump claimed as a landslide, and his popular vote margin probably close to six million. That specious taint will let them pose piously, when they block his SC nominations or policy initiatives, as the folks who, after all, kept a Senate majority and increased their House share.* This was the rationale they used to block Obama's SC pick in 2016 and to ram through their own this year, and there was never any controversy about Obama's election; imagine what they will do with Biden when they can paint his election as somewhat questionable.

*They've claimed to be the "voice of the American people" through their Senate majority; to me, that particular voice is a deliberately fragmented one, Americans speaking as New Yorkers or Texans, Floridians or Californians, each speaking for its own interests and only superficially resembling a chorus carrying a common tune. It's true enough that the popular vote isn't what elects presidents; but I think it's only fair to remind Republicans who claim to speak with an "American voice" that, when Americans have actually spoken as a whole to elect a representative common to them all, only once in 32 years has the GOP managed a win- Bush in 2004, and that was with a margin that was only about half of what Biden has so far.
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Old 17th November 2020, 06:02 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This has been discussed ad nauseum. The state legislators said they were not going to do this.
Indeed. We should all just be thankful that it will be Biden who gets to replace the SCOTUS vacancy left behind when Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg died*.


* Because we obviously must have a vacancy since Mitch McConnell said he would not consider a SCOTUS Justice nomination vote close to a presidential election.
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Old 17th November 2020, 06:07 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This has been discussed ad nauseum. The state legislators said they were not going to do this.

It would seem the fear mongering is still selling the news.
"Guys relax, it's just an *attempted* coup."

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...105016832?s=20
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Old 17th November 2020, 06:09 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
Indeed. We should all just be thankful that it will be Biden who gets to replace the SCOTUS vacancy left behind when Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg died*.


* Because we obviously must have a vacancy since Mitch McConnell said he would not consider a SCOTUS Justice nomination vote close to a presidential election.
And even if Mitch HAD somehow gone back on his word, he wouldn't have had the votes to confirm. Because senators like Lindsey Graham said explicitly:

Quote:
I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination.
So seriously, people who try to tell me not to worry because republican politicians promised they'd do the right thing can bite my ass.
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Old 17th November 2020, 06:25 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
And even if Mitch HAD somehow gone back on his word, he wouldn't have had the votes to confirm. Because senators like Lindsey Graham said explicitly:



So seriously, people who try to tell me not to worry because republican politicians promised they'd do the right thing can bite my ass.

Yeah, that was supposed to be Lindsay Graham in my post (why do I get those two confused?). also, Lindsay Graham would seem to be perfectly fine with engaging in electoral interference despite not being a thing that one would think to be legal.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
"Guys relax, it's just an *attempted* coup."

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...105016832?s=20
Again, they are all waiting to see if enough on their side do the thing before they themselves do the thing. They are not doing the thing only because they are not yet sure. What they said they would do is not a part of the heuristic that they are applying.
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Old 17th November 2020, 10:48 AM   #309
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Graham has explained his call to the Georgia SOS.
He was Just Asking Questions.
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Old 17th November 2020, 11:03 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Graham has explained his call to the Georgia SOS.
He was Just Asking Questions.
"Would you mind undermining the very foundation of a free society and skull **** our voting process? Just checking"
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Old 17th November 2020, 11:14 AM   #311
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This is pretty grim. While I don't see the partisan SCOTUS overturning a state election result, I can easily imagine them cooking up some BS pretext for why it wouldn't be proper to intervene if some state official was throwing out ballots en masse.

They could easily paint abdication of duty as judicial conservatism, even if it was clear that constitutional voting rights were being violated through deliberately ham-fisted "voting fraud" purges that resulted in hundreds of thousands of legitimate ballots getting trashed.

While taking an active part in a soft coup might be beyond the pale, adopting a "there's just nothing we can do" attitude in light of an obvious power grab is much more palatable.
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Old 17th November 2020, 11:29 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
"Would you mind undermining the very foundation of a free society and skull **** our voting process? Just checking"


"See, if he'd have said "YES!", I'd have called the cops on him! It was a sting operation!"
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Old 17th November 2020, 11:36 AM   #313
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
They could easily paint abdication of duty as judicial conservatism, even if it was clear that constitutional voting rights were being violated through deliberately ham-fisted "voting fraud" purges that resulted in hundreds of thousands of legitimate ballots getting trashed.
Or, as the Republican Party calls it, 'Tuesday'.

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Old 17th November 2020, 12:09 PM   #314
The Great Zaganza
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It's the GOP motto: as long as we don't actually manage to destroy the US, what's the harm in trying really hard?
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Old 17th November 2020, 12:30 PM   #315
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It's the GOP motto: as long as we don't actually manage to destroy the US, what's the harm in trying really hard?
There is no attempted murder, only murder!


They have made this kind of insinuation several times, particularly when some of their guys get caught molesting women.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
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Old 17th November 2020, 12:40 PM   #316
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
There is no attempted murder, only murder!


They have made this kind of insinuation several times, particularly when some of their guys get caught molesting women.
Donnie never got his Noble for Attempted Diplomacy!
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Old 17th November 2020, 01:01 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
His Twitter account may be scrubbed but my understanding is that the Tweets have to be archived (whether by Twitter or not, I don't know) as Official Presidential Communications. I have to wonder if all the comments are required to be saved also.

Guess someone will print out and bind those tweets and donate it to his future library.
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Old 17th November 2020, 01:20 PM   #318
bonzombiekitty
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
There is no attempted murder, only murder!
Pffft. attempted murder. What is that? Do they give the nobel prize for attempted chemistry?
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Old 17th November 2020, 01:55 PM   #319
alfaniner
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Originally Posted by Athyrio View Post
Guess someone will print out and bind those tweets and donate it to his future library.
Now those would genuinely fill several albums. Not even counting the comments.
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Old 17th November 2020, 02:11 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If Republican leaders came out and said that Joe Biden is the President elect then there'd be much less traction for this kind of thing. Instead we have them supporting President Trump, echoing his "every legal vote", supporting his lawsuits and making reference to a second Trump term.
Some of them. Others have spoken in private and others have spoken publicly. Trump's welcome is wearing thin.


Originally Posted by The Don View Post
... If they (they in this case being both the national Republican leadership and the state leaders in those states) think that the blowback will be worth it, then why not take these entirely legal steps?
What steps are you referring to?


Originally Posted by The Don View Post
..... We've heard it so many times in recent years, "They won't/can't do that". Whether it's refusing even to consider a SCOTUS nominee and then forcing through another in similar circumstances, the myriad cases of President Trump behaving in ways which would have bene previously unthinkable or embracing groups who would otherwise be anathema to the party, the GOP is breaking new ground all the time.
This is the hypothetical. Match it to the evidence.


Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
You said they would not install Trump but in the event that the coup language moves up to actual coup, would they stand against it or stand asside?

Right now we have the situation where they seem to be laying the ground work for a coup that they seem to be not serious about, but there is no internal blowback from the laying the groundwork for a coup.
Who is laying what groundwork?


Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
History repeats itself. No one took seriously Hitler or Stalin at beginning too.
Hitler and Stalin were power hungry dictators. Trump is a pathological narcissist who only cares about himself. Have you seen him take any steps in the last 4 years to consolidate is power?

No. He fires anyone who disagrees or who he thinks makes him look bad. Instead of ending up with a core of strong minions who are loyal to him, Trump fills their seats with people who are less and less qualified. He's down to Giuliani for Pete's sake as his top lawyer.


Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Trust their word if you like; I'm old enough to remember when Republican legislators emphatically insisted they would never push a SCOTUS pick through during an election.
You continue to conflate state and federal legislators. And with COVID raging in a lot of GOP run states, why would these people back incompetent Trump? What's in it for them? It's not like they are all Trump sycophants.


Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Trump's meritless legal challenges seem to be going down the toilet, and there seems to be very little chance that even our partisan SCOTUS is going to give Trump the relief he demands here.

These legal moonshots aside, that just leaves the more naked power grab options. Eyes on the states with Republican controlled legislatures that Biden won to see if they will refuse to certify the electors. Any such move will have little to do with legality and more to do with the naked use of power by a minoritarian government intent on retaining control.

It should be clear that any such move is the open abandonment of any meaningful Democratic process and the only effective way to counter a coup is widespread public unrest.


Trump and whose army?

Honestly, don't people have better things to do than this fear mongering? If you believe these things, let's hear the evidence, not the hypothetical.
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