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Old 14th November 2020, 08:12 AM   #1
Solitaire
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Koch Brother Admits Screwing Up

Quote:
Charles Koch Regrets His Partisanship: 'Boy, Did We Screw Up!'

GOP mega-donor Charles Koch said he regrets his decades of partisanship
and now wants to focus on bridging the political divide, The Wall Street Journal
reported Friday.

In an interview shortly before the election, the 85-year-old libertarian
tycoon told the newspaper that after funding conservative causes, he
is turning his attention to issues like poverty, addiction, gang violence,
homelessness and recidivism.

Um... Well... Better super late than never, I suppose.
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Old 14th November 2020, 08:18 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
Um... Well... Better super late than never, I suppose.
You appear to be assuming sincerity not in evidence.
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Old 14th November 2020, 08:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
In an interview shortly before the election, the 85-year-old libertarian
tycoon told the newspaper that after funding conservative causes, he
is turning his attention to issues like poverty, addiction, gang violence,
homelessness and recidivism.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume his solution to all of those things is "lower taxes."
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Old 14th November 2020, 08:25 AM   #4
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*Koch stands amidst a pile of decapitated and dismembered corpses, sword in hand*

"Whoopsie daisy."
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Old 14th November 2020, 08:39 AM   #5
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In the 2020 election, Koch industries donated $1.4 million to political campaigns.

97% went to republican candidates. 3% went to Democratic candidates. Included in the list of Republican recipients are Devin Nunes (a hardcore trump sycophant) and Moscow Mitch (who has probably set bipartisanship back more than any politician currently in Washington.

If he truly has decided things are too divided, he has a strange way of showing it.

(Now these are just donations from Koch industries... But there is no reason to believe his personal donations would be any different)

https://www.opensecrets.org/politica...ecipients/2020

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Old 14th November 2020, 08:50 AM   #6
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Once you've tried everything else ...
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Old 14th November 2020, 08:59 AM   #7
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
Koch Brother Admits Screwing Up
Quote:
Quote:
Charles Koch Regrets His Partisanship: 'Boy, Did We Screw Up!'

GOP mega-donor Charles Koch said he regrets his decades of partisanship
and now wants to focus on bridging the political divide, The Wall Street Journal
reported Friday.

In an interview shortly before the election, the 85-year-old libertarian
tycoon told the newspaper that after funding conservative causes, he
is turning his attention to issues like poverty, addiction, gang violence,
homelessness and recidivism.

Um... Well... Better super late than never, I suppose.
You think Charles?

I give anyone big credit when they own up to their mistakes and admit they were wrong. So kudos.

But did you have to wait so long?
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Old 14th November 2020, 09:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I give anyone big credit when they own up to their mistakes and admit they were wrong.
He hasn't done that yet.

He's spent his whole life insisting that money is speech, so it's his pocketbook you should be watching to see if he's had a change of heart.
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Old 14th November 2020, 09:16 AM   #9
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
He hasn't done that yet.

He's spent his whole life insisting that money is speech, so it's his pocketbook you should be watching to see if he's had a change of heart.
You think he might be pulling a Trump?
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Old 14th November 2020, 09:29 AM   #10
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Not April 1st. Not The Onion.

Colour me surprised.

Redemption?

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Old 14th November 2020, 09:36 AM   #11
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Maybe he started dating Jane Fonda and second base looks so tantalizingly close.
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Old 14th November 2020, 09:43 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
He hasn't done that yet.

He's spent his whole life insisting that money is speech, so it's his pocketbook you should be watching to see if he's had a change of heart.
Exactly.
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Old 14th November 2020, 09:59 AM   #13
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You think he might be pulling a Trump?
Trump only wishes he had Koch's money.

No, I think he's just saying "sorry we accidentally a fascism." He fostered partisan hatred and authoritarian sentiment in order to get his economic philosophy installed because it otherwise doesn't stand up to scrutiny. But now the tail is wagging the dog and his cronies aren't in charge anymore, Ya'll Queda is, so he would like a do-over please. Maybe some of these browns and poors would like to learn how to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 14th November 2020 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 14th November 2020, 10:28 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
*Koch stands amidst a pile of decapitated and dismembered corpses, sword in hand*

"Whoopsie daisy."
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...
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Old 14th November 2020, 10:58 AM   #15
Thermal
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...
"Aw, come on guys! We all have sinned! Who among you could cast the first stone?"

*99% of population picks up stones*
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Old 14th November 2020, 11:01 AM   #16
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So is this considered a ... Koch up?
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Old 14th November 2020, 11:10 AM   #17
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Koch-a culpa
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Old 14th November 2020, 12:04 PM   #18
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Once a degenerate, always a degenerate.
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Old 14th November 2020, 12:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You think Charles?

I give anyone big credit when they own up to their mistakes and admit they were wrong. So kudos.

But did you have to wait so long?
Sadly, yes.

But this is good news, because it means the fever has finally broken. It took 4 years of Trump, a pandemic, and a brother's death to to do it, but now at least one libertarian understands what we were talking about. The most valuable thing in this country is not material wealth or 'the economy', it's the people.

I bet Charles Koch is not the only one who regrets not heeding our warnings. They all thought Trump was just a minor anomaly that would correct itself over time, when in fact he and his minions have destroyed the ideals they thought they were funding. How many others will come to their senses and realize they were going down the wrong path?
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Old 14th November 2020, 12:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Sadly, yes.

But this is good news, because it means the fever has finally broken. It took 4 years of Trump, a pandemic, and a brother's death to to do it, but now at least one libertarian understands what we were talking about. The most valuable thing in this country is not material wealth or 'the economy', it's the people.

I bet Charles Koch is not the only one who regrets not heeding our warnings. They all thought Trump was just a minor anomaly that would correct itself over time, when in fact he and his minions have destroyed the ideals they thought they were funding. How many others will come to their senses and realize they were going down the wrong path?
While I can't stand the Koch brothers investments into right wing political leaders I have to acknowledge they have funded science and the arts. And I appreciate that. Doesn't make up for it....but it merits inclusion.
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Old 15th November 2020, 12:06 PM   #21
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While the Koch Brothers deserve a large share of the blame, I also blame the right wing propaganda machine, e. g. talk radio, Fox News, Breitbart, etc. They spent so much time promoting the idea that compassion and human decency are weaknesses that a whole lot of people thought electing a man without even a trace of either was a good idea.
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Old 15th November 2020, 12:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
While the Koch Brothers deserve a large share of the blame, I also blame the right wing propaganda machine
Who do you think (among others) pay for that "right wing propaganda machine"?
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Old 16th November 2020, 11:34 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by catsmate
Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
Um... Well... Better super late than never, I suppose.
You appear to be assuming sincerity not in evidence.
Rockefeller turned to soft-selling the power hungry politicians ripping into him, and moving on to philanthropy as defense.

Some even recognize this in the rich (e.g. Gates and Buffet), and accordingly launch attacks anyway.

What few do is put 2 and 2 together to realize that maybe it isn't the "help the poor" memes driving this at the highest level, but rather just pathetic utilitarianism on the behalf of the high level politicians riding to power lambasting the rich, i.e. their competitors for power.

"Who cares if such politicians get rich on graft, as long as they are helping the poor?"
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Old 16th November 2020, 11:57 AM   #24
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Let's see if he does the "Giving pledge" or if this is just PR.
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Old 16th November 2020, 12:20 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
*Koch stands amidst a pile of decapitated and dismembered corpses, sword in hand*

"Whoopsie daisy."
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Old 16th November 2020, 01:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
What few do is put 2 and 2 together to realize that maybe it isn't the "help the poor" memes driving this at the highest level, but rather just pathetic utilitarianism on the behalf of the high level politicians riding to power lambasting the rich, i.e. their competitors for power.
Or in some cases, maybe it is.

Charles Koch
Quote:
In July 2015 Charles Koch and his brother were praised by President Obama and Anthony Van Jones for their bipartisan efforts to reform the criminal justice system. For roughly a decade Koch has been advocating for several reforms within the prison system, including the reduction of recidivist criminals, easing the employment process for rehabilitated persons, and the defense of private property from asset forfeiture. Aligning with groups such as the ACLU, the Center for American Progress, Families Against Mandatory Minimums, the Coalition for Public Safety, and the MacArthur Foundation, Koch believes the current system has unfairly targeted low-income and minority communities all while wasting substantial government resources.

In February 2016, Koch penned an opinion piece in The Washington Post, where he said he agreed with presidential candidate Bernie Sanders about the unfairness of corporate welfare and mass incarceration in the United States.

In June 2019, the Charles Koch Foundation announced the foundation of anti-war think tank Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, cosponsored by George Soros' Open Society Foundation.

Koch's philanthropic activities have focused on research, policy, and educational projects intended to advance free-market views. He has underwritten scholarships and financed the research of economists such as James Buchanan and Friedrich Hayek. He has also "supported efforts to inspire at-risk young people to consider entrepreneurship, to teach American students the principles of limited government, and to connect recent graduates with market-oriented organizations, in an effort to launch their careers in public policy.
Seems to me that Charles Koch is a believer in free-market solutions, not just for his own gain but for the benefit others as well. As one of the richest men in the world he has has little to gain from reforming prisons or encouraging people of lesser means to become entrepreneurs. His position against war, corporate welfare, and mass incarceration could even be seen as counterproductive if 'pathetic utilitarianism' was the goal, as it puts him offside with the powerful people that would otherwise be supporting him.

His big mistake was in not realizing that the right-wing does not actually share his philosophy, and is doing to more to damage it than help. He is not alone in this. Many republicans are finding that their party has left them.

His other mistake was in allowing his business interests to blind him on the science of global warming. As a former business owner I can understand this - it is difficult to separate one's own interests from the greater good, especially when the benefits of personal 'sacrifice' are not clear. Most business people will tell you that taxes are too high, regulations too stiff etc., because they naturally think that what could hurt them will be bad for everyone. It takes a lot of magnanimity, humbleness and unconventional thinking to see beyond the day-to-day grind of running a successful business. I think Charles Koch may have reached that point.

You could argue that any actions taken by the rich that make them appear more generous and empathic are no more than 'pathetic utilitarianism', and in many cases you would be right. You could also argue that politicians use this to pressure rich people into giving up some of their wealth in order to appear more 'human' - and you would be right there too. But not all of them need to be pressured.

Our capitalist system elevates a 'lucky' few to positions of extreme wealth and power whether they crave it or not, and whether they selfishly exploit it or not. Some genuinely believe that their position gives them a unique opportunity to do good in the world. Is Charles Koch one of them? Should we forgive his past mistakes because he thought he was doing the right thing?

In the past we vilified the Kochs for supporting climate denialism and corrupt Republicans, and we were right to do that. But now is the time to bury the hatchet and work together. Charles Koch doesn't think he is a bad person, he just made some mistakes. It's not 'pathetic utilitarianism' to work with that, just as it's not 'pathetic utilitarianism' to lambast those of the rich who are bad people.
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Old 16th November 2020, 01:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Seems to me that Charles Koch is a believer in free-market solutions, not just for his own gain but for the benefit others as well.
So moving over to more for profit prisons to really get the free market involved in criminal justice.
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Old 17th November 2020, 10:05 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So moving over to more for profit prisons to really get the free market involved in criminal justice.
I don't think Roger Ramjets is saying Kock's solution is right, he's just saying it's a legitimately held belief on Kock's part, whereas the Republican Party just pays lip service to free markets.

In my experience Roger Ramjets own personal belief is that well regulated markets are more efficient and more fair than completely free markets, with the real issue being the amount of regulation and number/type of services provided other ways being the real issue. This, so far as I can tell, lines up with mainstream economic thought as well, as Laissez Fair free market economists ala the Chicago School are somewhat rare.
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