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Old 26th December 2016, 09:03 AM   #121
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
They'll find some people to perform. Probably not anyone I give a crap about, but there's always this generation's Sinatra or John Wayne or Wayne Newton out there somewhere. They might find B-List singing acts, but they'll be headlining in the Day's Inn Lounge in Tallahassee after this gig.
Lee Greenwood? Bruce "Return of Bruno" Willis? Clint Eastwood and his chair?
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Old 26th December 2016, 09:03 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Guess Who will.
I give up, who?
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Old 26th December 2016, 09:10 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Guess Who will.
They're Canadian. Would DT let them in?
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Old 26th December 2016, 10:49 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
They're Canadian. Would DT let them in?
Yes.
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Old 26th December 2016, 10:50 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I give up, who?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guess_Who

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Old 26th December 2016, 11:01 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by shuize View Post
Perhaps they could fill the positions with White House interns. I'm so old, I can remember when our friends on the left considered them fair game.
It is not surprising for me that rethugpublican cannot distinguish between consensual sex and sexual assault.
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Old 26th December 2016, 11:33 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I'm still a little jarred by language usage because in my state sexual assault is a synonym for rape. Groping would be sexual abuse. But apparently this state is unusual.

It's unnerving to realize in a crowded subway car that the guy behind you is pressing his boner against your butt. Should that be the same crime as rape? I'm not sure.
Be glad you aren't living in Japan it is not only epidemic or close, but there is a specific porn of it. But then Japan has some very odd porn (and for me to say odd about porn, sounds odd to those who know and love me): Girls bandaged and in hospital beds in hospital rooms - was big there around 15 years ago.

To the bolded and embiggened, no because no direct contact, no penetration and always the excuse that the subway car was very full (Japanese subway personnel actually exist whose job is pushing as many as can be pushed into the car - and that has been at a minimum since late 1960s).
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Old 26th December 2016, 11:41 AM   #128
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Evidence re train/subway (do not open if at work or similar): https://www.amazon.com/Tokyo-Train-G...train+girl+DVD
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Old 26th December 2016, 11:52 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
I do not boycott Cracker Barrel but I do not eat there any longer. Only for the most important reason a person should have - 5+ years ago their stuff (food) took an amazing and rapid drop in quality. I have retried them (all different stores) at least 6 times and they were bad, not tasting good every single time. I thus stopped trying. - note haven't had that happen in any other restaurant. I miss the food at C B but as it was, it is worthless now - or might as well be as I have no intent of eating there again.
Note, I know it is not me as I have great examples still of the same foods that taste just fine to great, so not my chemistry/taste perceptions!!!!!
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Old 26th December 2016, 12:17 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
It is not surprising for me that rethugpublican cannot distinguish between consensual sex and sexual assault.

Your willful ignorance of Bill Clinton's many sexual assault accusers aside (that was a great pre-debate press conference by Trump, don't you agree?), I'll mark you down as "no problem" with Trump treating his White House interns with all the "dignity" and "respect" Clinton showed his, up to and including cigars, leveraging his position of power for sexual favors, and lying about ther liaisons under oath.
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Old 26th December 2016, 12:38 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Perhaps, but preventing a sexual assault might surmount the objections. Besides, they don't have to wear the entire thing, just the stuff that covers their naughty bits.
So now they are going to transport from hotel to venue with just their 'naughty bits' covered?

This seems quite similar to the problematic belief that one must 'cover their naughty bits so the man will be able to control himself.'

Originally Posted by marplots View Post
It's a subjective evaluation of risk and the significance of an unwanted outcome. If I am made too anxious by a task, I will refuse to do that task. The question is whether or not we (or, more properly, the employer) accepts the evaluation proffered. I do not.

I would try to accommodate the wishes of the performers, but there is some point where their worries extend too far. If I am able to provide a lock for the dressing room door, I would do that. If they felt more comfortable changing at their hotel, I would suggest that. Not performing because there is someone at the venue who has previously exploited his position to get a peek at disrobed women? No, that's not enough to cancel.
'Solutions' to these kinds of problems always seem to boil down to inconveniences and exceptions being made by the women or some form of security policy or barrier. How about we make the person with a history of vile behavior have to be the one to bend over backwards, yeah?
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Old 26th December 2016, 12:47 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
So now they are going to transport from hotel to venue with just their 'naughty bits' covered?

This seems quite similar to the problematic belief that one must 'cover their naughty bits so the man will be able to control himself.'
It's their fantasy, I'm just playing along as if it were real.

Quote:
'Solutions' to these kinds of problems always seem to boil down to inconveniences and exceptions being made by the women or some form of security policy or barrier. How about we make the person with a history of vile behavior have to be the one to bend over backwards, yeah?
Sure, go ahead. Remove Trump's bad reputation so women won't fear being around him. If I'd have thought that possible, I'd have suggested it myself.
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Old 26th December 2016, 12:56 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Sure, go ahead. Remove Trump's bad reputation so women won't fear being around him. If I'd have thought that possible, I'd have suggested it myself.
FTFY.

It's not Trump's reputation they are worried about.
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Old 26th December 2016, 12:57 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
It's their fantasy, I'm just playing along as if it were real.

Sure, go ahead. Remove Trump's bad reputation so women won't fear being around him. If I'd have thought that possible, I'd have suggested it myself.
I either haven't had enough coffee or haven't had enough scotch to make sense of this.
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Old 26th December 2016, 12:59 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
FTFY.

It's not Trump's reputation they are worried about.
Thanks for the fix. Of course, it's obvious now. The women wouldn't be worried about performing at Trump's inauguration if Trump weren't there at all. It's so simple, really.

Have we arrived at absurd town yet?
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Old 26th December 2016, 12:59 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Thanks for the fix. Of course, it's obvious now. The women wouldn't be worried about performing at Trump's inauguration if Trump weren't there at all. It's so simple, really.

Have we arrived at absurd town yet?
We arrived when Trump won the GOP nomination.

ETA: Although I don't really see these women's reluctance to perform from an admitted sexual assaulter as absurd. Seems more like a common moral decision, alternatively proper caution in a potentially hostile situation.
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Old 26th December 2016, 01:12 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
We arrived when Trump won the GOP nomination.

ETA: Although I don't really see these women's reluctance to perform from an admitted sexual assaulter as absurd. Seems more like a common moral decision, alternatively proper caution in a potentially hostile situation.
I'd buy that ETA, except there doesn't seem to be any answer that will do, other than not performing at all. I suggested not changing at the venue or putting someone at the door, or locking the door - but nothing will suffice. It's as if the risk can't be mitigated or reduced in any reasonable way that leads to a performance. Which is why I think the whole "risk of sexual assault" is a red herring.
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Old 26th December 2016, 01:17 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I'd buy that ETA, except there doesn't seem to be any answer that will do, other than not performing at all. I suggested not changing at the venue or putting someone at the door, or locking the door - but nothing will suffice. It's as if the risk can't be mitigated or reduced in any reasonable way that leads to a performance. Which is why I think the whole "risk of sexual assault" is a red herring.
I think it's something that's definitely on their minds, given Trumps past behavior and what he's claimed he does in situations like these. A lock opens with a key which Trump would no doubt have. Nobody at the door would stop the President of the United States from passing. Not changing at the venue is so unpractical it would probably breach the women's' contract.

The point tho, which you apparently missed, is that these women should not have to do anything. Trump, being the offending party, should be the one to have to take extra measures to ensure that everyone is safe from his roving hands. How about doing the inauguration wearing handcuffs? Straight-jacket? How about watching the whole thing via video-link?

I have now provided just as many measures to mitigate the risk as you have.
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Old 26th December 2016, 01:20 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
It's their fantasy, I'm just playing along as if it were real....
It's an evidence based concern. Remotely likely is another matter. But it's not a fantasy.

In addition, it's been a discussion here. I'm not aware any of the Rockettes have expressed concern Trump might assault them. I would imagine not wanting to be part of a racist-misogynist-bigot's inauguration was the basis of the objection.
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Old 26th December 2016, 01:31 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I think it's something that's definitely on their minds, given Trumps past behavior and what he's claimed he does in situations like these. A lock opens with a key which Trump would no doubt have. Nobody at the door would stop the President of the United States from passing. Not changing at the venue is so unpractical it would probably breach the women's' contract.

The point tho, which you apparently missed, is that these women should not have to do anything. Trump, being the offending party, should be the one to have to take extra measures to ensure that everyone is safe from his roving hands. How about doing the inauguration wearing handcuffs? Straight-jacket? How about watching the whole thing via video-link?

I have now provided just as many measures to mitigate the risk as you have.
And that's where it ends up, when we take subjective, irrational fears seriously. It ends up with the incoming President of the United States wearing handcuffs at his own inauguration.
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Old 26th December 2016, 01:36 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
And that's where it ends up, when we take subjective, irrational fears seriously. It ends up with the incoming President of the United States wearing handcuffs at his own inauguration.
What's irrational about it? Trump has done it before, by his own account. He's also demonstrated that he doesn't even see it as the wrong thing to do. There's no reason to believe he's changed.

This isn't a normal incoming President, or a normal inauguration we're talking about.

Then again, as Skeptic Ginger says, their reason for not wanting to play the inauguration is likely not wanting to be part of the inauguration of a racist misogynist con man.
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Old 26th December 2016, 01:54 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
And that's where it ends up, when we take subjective, irrational fears seriously. It ends up with the incoming President of the United States wearing handcuffs at his own inauguration.
Accepting the fact that we are probably miles deep into a hypothetical rabbit hole...

One's social status, position, accumulated net worth, or other irrelevant factors in no way mitigate their responsibilities. Which is basically the entire "And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything" mentality to begin with.
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Old 26th December 2016, 02:26 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
One's social status, position, accumulated net worth, or other irrelevant factors in no way mitigate their responsibilities. Which is basically the entire "And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything" mentality to begin with.
Add to that we're not dealing with an ordinary self-entitled elitist here, but one with severe Narcissistic Personality Disorder, who literally needs to be treated as a "special" person. If DJT believes that stars are entitled to do that sort of thing, he would do it just to reinforce his fragile self-image as a star, not to mention the bragging rights.

Anyone see any potential problems with what he might think Presidents are allowed to do?
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Old 26th December 2016, 02:29 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
To the bolded and embiggened, no because no direct contact, no penetration and always the excuse that the subway car was very full (Japanese subway personnel actually exist whose job is pushing as many as can be pushed into the car - and that has been at a minimum since late 1960s).
Mexico City subway cars are pretty packed!

It's hard (no pun intended) for me to imagine that most females have not had experiences like this. Well, probably quite a few guys as well.
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Old 26th December 2016, 08:07 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
What's irrational about it? Trump has done it before, by his own account. He's also demonstrated that he doesn't even see it as the wrong thing to do. There's no reason to believe he's changed.

This isn't a normal incoming President, or a normal inauguration we're talking about.

Then again, as Skeptic Ginger says, their reason for not wanting to play the inauguration is likely not wanting to be part of the inauguration of a racist misogynist con man.
Or they have reservations about performing for Putin's puppet.
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Old 26th December 2016, 08:09 PM   #146
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I see George Michael won't be performing at the inauguration.
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Old 26th December 2016, 08:43 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
I see George Michael won't be performing at the inauguration.
He took the easy way out, too.
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Old 26th December 2016, 09:34 PM   #148
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Has he asked the USA Freedom Kids?
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Old 26th December 2016, 10:14 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Has he asked the USA Freedom Kids?
Last time I checked, they were suing him.
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Old 27th December 2016, 04:54 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Or they have reservations about performing for Putin's puppet.
True, if you dance for the dancing dog, what does that make you?
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Old 27th December 2016, 05:47 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
True, if you dance for the dancing dog, what does that make you?
A Republican.
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Old 27th December 2016, 05:58 AM   #152
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What's the problem anyway?
Every inauguration only has artists who want to be associated with the candidate.
You wouldn't expect Springsteen to play for Trump or Ted Nugent to sing Obama's praises.
If the Rockettes don't want to dance for Trump, they wouldn't have to claim they're afraid of being groped by him, they could just say 'no, thanks' and that's that.
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Old 27th December 2016, 06:03 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Sonny Bono would do it but he skied into a tree.
A bit extreme, I would have just smashed my shins with a hammer to get out of it.
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Old 27th December 2016, 06:06 AM   #154
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Old 27th December 2016, 06:11 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
What's the problem anyway?
Every inauguration only has artists who want to be associated with the candidate.
You wouldn't expect Springsteen to play for Trump or Ted Nugent to sing Obama's praises.
If the Rockettes don't want to dance for Trump, they wouldn't have to claim they're afraid of being groped by him, they could just say 'no, thanks' and that's that.
Sure they could, and I believe they did. However, they could take the opportunity to remind everyone that the US elected a self-confessed sexual assaulter.
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Old 27th December 2016, 07:00 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
If the Rockettes don't want to dance for Trump, they wouldn't have to claim they're afraid of being groped by him, they could just say 'no, thanks' and that's that.
I don't believe any of them ever actually claimed that they were afraid of being groped, but they shouldn't need to explain why they don't want to dance for this pathetically misogynistic sex offender who thinks he has a right to grope women and has never apologized for it. Someone here called that "political," as if they just don't like his policies or maybe Republicans in general. I'd say it's pretty damned personal, but I guess we learned this year that misogyny is still a "traditional value" on the right and women are expected to accept it. Apparently a lot did. But anyway, this story became a story because they were originally told they would be fired if they didn't perform, so you missed that part, too.
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Old 27th December 2016, 07:58 AM   #157
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Trace Adkins, Gene Simmons, Clint Black, T-Boz (of TLC fame), Brian McKnight, Sharon Osbourne (Ozzie connection?), Cyndi Lauper, David Cassidy, La Toya Jackson, Lil Jon, Mark McGrath, Meat Loaf, John Rich, Dionne Warwick, Clay Aiken, Debbie Gibson, Aubrey O'Day, Dee Snider, Bret Michaels, Kevin Jonas, Vince Neil, Carnie Wilson, and Boy George.

There. All singers who had no problem being associated with Trump in the past via Celebrity Apprentice. Okay - the last two are working with Arnold Schwarzenegger in the upcoming season, but I think was still Trump's show when they signed up. Back then it wasn't fashionable to loath the guy. Now it is. I'll allow that defining some of these as "singers" or "celebrity's" is a bit of a stretch these days.
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Old 27th December 2016, 08:12 AM   #158
uke2se
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Trace Adkins, Gene Simmons, Clint Black, T-Boz (of TLC fame), Brian McKnight, Sharon Osbourne (Ozzie connection?), Cyndi Lauper, David Cassidy, La Toya Jackson, Lil Jon, Mark McGrath, Meat Loaf, John Rich, Dionne Warwick, Clay Aiken, Debbie Gibson, Aubrey O'Day, Dee Snider, Bret Michaels, Kevin Jonas, Vince Neil, Carnie Wilson, and Boy George.

There. All singers who had no problem being associated with Trump in the past via Celebrity Apprentice. Okay - the last two are working with Arnold Schwarzenegger in the upcoming season, but I think was still Trump's show when they signed up. Back then it wasn't fashionable to loath the guy. Now it is. I'll allow that defining some of these as "singers" or "celebrity's" is a bit of a stretch these days.
A veritable smörgåsbord of washed-up has-beens or never-beens. Seems quite right.
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Old 27th December 2016, 08:23 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Spock Jenkins View Post
Trace Adkins, Gene Simmons, Clint Black, T-Boz (of TLC fame), Brian McKnight, Sharon Osbourne (Ozzie connection?), Cyndi Lauper, David Cassidy, La Toya Jackson, Lil Jon, Mark McGrath, Meat Loaf, John Rich, Dionne Warwick, Clay Aiken, Debbie Gibson, Aubrey O'Day, Dee Snider, Bret Michaels, Kevin Jonas, Vince Neil, Carnie Wilson, and Boy George.

There. All singers who had no problem being associated with Trump in the past via Celebrity Apprentice. Okay - the last two are working with Arnold Schwarzenegger in the upcoming season, but I think was still Trump's show when they signed up. Back then it wasn't fashionable to loath the guy. Now it is. I'll allow that defining some of these as "singers" or "celebrity's" is a bit of a stretch these days.
I had no problem with Donald Trump as an actor, (or whatever you call people who do "reality TV" and professional wrestling), or even as a real estate developer. As president, though, I have an issue. I'm just disappointed that a significant minority of the American people couldn't tell the difference between reality TV and reality.
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Old 27th December 2016, 08:26 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm just disappointed that a significant minority of the American people couldn't tell the difference between reality TV and reality.
Idiocracy may go down as one of the most prophetic films ever made.
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