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Old 29th December 2016, 12:39 PM   #241
sunmaster14
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Was it incorrect?
As a fact, it was probably true. It was, however, incorrect in the sense it didn't belong in the introduction, nor anywhere in her bio.

ETA: The same editor, by the way, added "(no jobs)" after 2008 and 2010 and also added "Debbie Reynolds is dead" further down. Certainly not the most creative troll I've ever seen on wikipedia.

Last edited by sunmaster14; 29th December 2016 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 29th December 2016, 12:41 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
You pose this as a definitive question; yet when it's pointed out that women have gone on record saying they were not "OK with that", you dismiss their complaints.
I haven't dismissed anything. Nor have I blindly accepted it as unvarnished truth, as you seem to have. It's quite possible that they're telling the truth, but that hasn't been established.
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Old 29th December 2016, 12:45 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
"They'll let you do anything."

By his own words he did not obtain consent but, because he's a "star" he didn't have to. Therefore, these actions* were consensual. He did claim non-consensual kissing on the mouth, however. He also claimed aggressive pursuit of a married woman, while he was a married man.

So what we have here is an admitted serial sexual predator or a baby-man who felt the need to chat up whoever that loser was who was on the bus with him. If the latter then he's not a criminal (at least for this), but under either scenario he's one of the most insecure, immature, and morally repugnant human beings on Earth.

*And he claimed they never actually happened either, when directly questioned on the matter by Anderson Cooper.
I don't see this as Trump saying he had the consent of those whose pussy he grabbed. Who is they? The girls being pussy grabbed or those in charge of the event where the pussy grabbing occurred. I see him saying, look no one stops me. Not being stopped is not the same as consent.
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Old 29th December 2016, 12:53 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
It's the most recent edit, by an obvious vandal.

ETA: And now undone. And not by me. I was too slow.
No kidding. I just thought it was funny. I, too, have eaten at Primanti's when we had a white president.
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Old 29th December 2016, 12:53 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Not gaining consent first is assault.
So where are the prosecutions? Arrest warrants? Trials? Something seems to be missing.......Why is that?
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Old 29th December 2016, 01:09 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I haven't dismissed anything. Nor have I blindly accepted it as unvarnished truth, as you seem to have. It's quite possible that they're telling the truth, but that hasn't been established.
An impossible-to-fulfil demand. A woman cannot "prove" she was personally not okay with Trump groping her genitals any more than I can "prove" that my favorite color is green. No matter what is offered in support, you will always be able to assert room for doubt.
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Old 29th December 2016, 01:09 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So where are the prosecutions? Arrest warrants? Trials? Something seems to be missing.......Why is that?
Chris B.
He is facing a number of civil lawsuits over the events.
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Old 29th December 2016, 01:10 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Did you actually think about that sentence before posting it? It proves my point, unless you think the protests are really about opposing uncertainty.
If a person says or does 2 things, something completely detestable (like appointing an anti-gay nutcase to be his VP) and something not detestable (like making an empty claim about how he'll protect the gay community) I think its quite reasonable to have concerns that the person will be more detestable than not.

A reasonable, rational person does not do detestable/deplorable things. I myself don't run around shouting racial slurs at random minorities one day and giving to pro-minority charities the next. Yet that is the equivalent of what Trump did.
Quote:
Are the protests really against Vice President elect Pence, or are they against Trump for picking Pence?
Why do they have to be about one or the other? Why can't they be about both?
Quote:
Quote:
What exactly are his policies?
I suspect they will be 180 degrees opposite from what his most outspoken and uncivil critics want.
Why do you have to 'suspect' what his policies are? Why aren't they laid out clearly so that you can understand what you're voting for?

That was the point the other poster made... Trump has made so many statements that are either completely vague (e.g. not saying what he'd replace Obamacare with) or completely contradictory (both anti-gay and pro gay) that you don't know what he stands for. Yet people voted for him.
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Old 29th December 2016, 01:20 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
An impossible-to-fulfil demand. A woman cannot "prove" she was personally not okay with Trump groping her genitals any more than I can "prove" that my favorite color is green. No matter what is offered in support, you will always be able to assert room for doubt.
Not at all. The primary thing that needs to be established is that groping of the woman making the complaint took place. But that's not automatically a given.

Originally Posted by crescent View Post
He is facing a number of civil lawsuits over the events.
And we'll see how those lawsuits turn out. If a plaintiff wins in court, I will accept that as good evidence that he sexually assaulted the person. If the case settles, I'd say that leaves the question in the air.

The planned lawsuit over an alleged rape has already imploded, though, so even if the other allegations pan out, he's still not in Polanski territory.
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Old 29th December 2016, 01:31 PM   #250
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Keep in mind, sexual assault is about power not carnal pleasure. While men who grope women's pussies may imagine they like it, the truth is it's creepy and intended to demean the woman grabbed. Same with walking in women's dressing rooms, creepy, disrespectful power play.
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Old 29th December 2016, 01:36 PM   #251
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Is there any evidence of Jackie Evancho's music sales "skyrocketing" besides Breitbart and Fox News?

It wouldn't surprise me there are enough Trump supporters to boost her sales, but I'm skeptical of "skyrocketing sales".

I've never heard of her.

Oh wait, I found this on TMZ:
Quote:
We're told since the America's Got Talent runner-up has signed on to sing "The Star Spangled Banner" on January 20th, her weekly album sales quadrupled in digital downloads and in retailer as well. In fact her album, "Someday at Christmas," had to be restocked twice.
Jackie's album jumped to #1 on the Billboard Classical Albums chart.
Restocked where?


Billboard Classical Album Chart

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Old 29th December 2016, 01:36 PM   #252
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The fact that Donald Trump managed to turn that whole episode of the Access Hollywood tape into a question of whether or not he ever committed legally actionable acts of sexual assault is testimony to his skill in marketing.


Never mind whether he did or did not commit something that could be proven to be sexual assault in a court of law. Is the guy a creep, or what? Is there anyone willing to stand up and say, "Gee I hope my daughter finds a guy like that?"

He's the sort of guy that might like to hire the Rockettes for an inauguration.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against the Rockettes. Cheesecake is cool. But...for an inauguration? Oh, and ladies....uhhh....half your audience is kind of creepy. I mean, the ones who really, really, like you....they're creepy.
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Old 29th December 2016, 01:55 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is there any evidence of Jackie Evancho's music sales "skyrocketing" besides Breitbart and Fox News?

It wouldn't surprise me there are enough Trump supporters to boost her sales, but I'm skeptical of "skyrocketing sales".

I've never heard of her.

Oh wait, I found this on TMZ:Restocked where?


Billboard Classical Album Chart
Breitbart needs to learn how to read. They said two of Evancho's albums were sitting at #2. Apparently they were looking at this page:
http://www.billboard.com/artist/3039...-evancho/chart

That shows her chart history. In other words those two albums peaked at #2, several years ago.

The young lady is impressive, seems like a nice enough person, has a fantastic voice, has sold a lot of albums including a platinum and some golds and she is going to perform at the inaugural. You'd think that'd be enough but the alt-right machine can't let it rest and has to ******** up what should be a good story on its own merits without embellishment.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:13 PM   #254
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I hope someone warns Jackie about Trump being a sex offender. She has the right to know.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:23 PM   #255
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It is really sad that the LIBERAL media refuses to print good news, like the fact that Jackie Evancho's record sales are soaring like they are being carried on the wings of angels that she sings like.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:30 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is really sad that the LIBERAL media refuses to print good news, like the fact that Jackie Evancho's record sales are soaring like they are being carried on the wings of angels that she sings like.
Yes, that is clearly something worthy of international attention. It's a mystery as to why nobody's plastered this across the front page - no, wait, I'm sorry, no mystery. It's all because LIBERALS!
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:30 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Keep in mind, sexual assault is about power not carnal pleasure. While men who grope women's pussies may imagine they like it, the truth is it's creepy and intended to demean the woman grabbed. Same with walking in women's dressing rooms, creepy, disrespectful power play.
Speaking as somebody who has had some experience living as a man, I'm extremely skeptical of your claim.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:35 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Yes, that is clearly something worthy of international attention. It's a mystery as to why nobody's plastered this across the front page - no, wait, I'm sorry, no mystery. It's all because LIBERALS!
I was told by skeptics that Fox and Brietbart published it, which seemed significant enough for them to mention.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:36 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is really sad that the LIBERAL media refuses to print good news, like the fact that Jackie Evancho's record sales are soaring like they are being carried on the wings of angels that she sings like.
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Yes, that is clearly something worthy of international attention. It's a mystery as to why nobody's plastered this across the front page - no, wait, I'm sorry, no mystery. It's all because LIBERALS!
Congratulations, Cleon, you've just been trolled.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:42 PM   #260
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Hell, I even have some headlines they can flat out have:

Jackie's Record Sales Soar on Eagles Wings

Hark, the Angel Sings.... and Sells.

Trump's Christmas Miracle: How the Future President filled a little Girl's Stocking With Cash.

Top Ten Jackie Songs.... You won't believe what Number 6 is.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:42 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Speaking as somebody who has had some experience living as a man, I'm extremely skeptical of your claim.
It's part of the whole "rape isn't about sex" dogma, originating with Susan Brownmiller. It was nonsense, of course, but it was ideologically useful nonsense.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:42 PM   #262
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You just don't get it, do you?

Donald Trump is grooming us. He's out to molest the entire country. The Rockettes? Small potatoes. Before he's done he'll be pussy grabbing Lady Liberty and by God, she'll enjoy it!
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:44 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Speaking as somebody who has had some experience living as a man, I'm extremely skeptical of your claim.
Wait, what? The set of people she described were 'men who grope women's pussies' as part of sexual assault. Are you in that set?

As to the broader question of 'is sexual assault about power or sex?' question, my answer is yes. Also and. Different people who commit sexual assault have different motives ranging from purely feeling power, to purely lack of sexual control, with most combining some of both.

That said, how the ever loving leaf does being a man qualify you to know if her claim was true or not? Just being a man doesn't give one insight into sexual predators, even if that's one area where conservatives and fringe feminists harmful views on gender overlap.
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Old 29th December 2016, 02:59 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Wait, what? The set of people she described were 'men who grope women's pussies' as part of sexual assault. Are you in that set?
I am in the set of men who have frequently had the desire to grope certain women in certain situations and yet have refrained due to possession of a degree of self-control. If you claim not to have experienced sexual temptation to the point of causing yourself mental and physical anguish, then perhaps you have no idea what I'm talking about. I also submit that you would likely not have a normal sex drive. Regardless, I doubt that in most cases of sexual assault it is about power. I believe it is usually about sexual desire overwhelming one's own self-imposed inhibitions.

Quote:
As to the broader question of 'is sexual assault about power or sex?' question, my answer is yes. Also and. Different people who commit sexual assault have different motives ranging from purely feeling power, to purely lack of sexual control, with most combining some of both.
That's a fine answer. It also contradicts what SG claimed, which was all my statement did.

Quote:
That said, how the ever loving leaf does being a man qualify you to know if her claim was true or not? Just being a man doesn't give one insight into sexual predators, even if that's one area where conservatives and fringe feminists harmful views on gender overlap.
Well, it was somewhat tongue in cheek, but I do think that most women really have no clue as to how strong a normal, healthy male's libido is.
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Old 29th December 2016, 03:00 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I am in the set of men who have frequently had the desire to grope certain women in certain situations and yet have refrained due to possession of a degree of self-control.
Then you're a better man than Donald Trump.
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Old 29th December 2016, 03:09 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Then you're a better man than Donald Trump.
That's a pretty low bar.
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Old 29th December 2016, 03:26 PM   #267
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Seems like Trump is the new Sun City.
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Old 29th December 2016, 05:39 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Speaking as somebody who has had some experience living as a man, I'm extremely skeptical of your claim.

Yes, I've always thought the "rape is only about power" claim sounded a bit strange.

I'm obviously not speaking from experience, and maybe my brain is completely different from an actual rapist's brain, but I think the "only power" claim gets it wrong.
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Old 29th December 2016, 05:43 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is really sad that the LIBERAL media refuses to print good news, like the fact that Jackie Evancho's record sales are soaring like they are being carried on the wings of angels that she sings like.
Soaring is relative.

Making it to the top of the classical album chart is NOT news, it can take less than 1000 albums to be #1. Her album is a Christmas album, it's only #16 on the Holiday chart.
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Old 29th December 2016, 05:48 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is really sad that the LIBERAL media refuses to print good news, like the fact that Jackie Evancho's record sales are soaring like they are being carried on the wings of angels that she sings like.


Daw....
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Old 29th December 2016, 06:54 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I am in the set of men who have frequently had the desire to grope certain women in certain situations and yet have refrained due to possession of a degree of self-control. If you claim not to have experienced sexual temptation to the point of causing yourself mental and physical anguish, then perhaps you have no idea what I'm talking about. I also submit that you would likely not have a normal sex drive. Regardless, I doubt that in most cases of sexual assault it is about power. I believe it is usually about sexual desire overwhelming one's own self-imposed inhibitions.



That's a fine answer. It also contradicts what SG claimed, which was all my statement did.
Not to derail the thread too much, but that's coming at the issue using yourself as a baseline. This isn't too unreasonable, but you have to know that you're not a rapist.* There are a lot of kinds of situations that lead to rape, and a lot of motivations driving people to commit rape. My personal experiences don't actually factor in much besides to motivate my learning about the subject. (Those experiences are all over the boards if you're really curious, which is one reason I would fail massively in politics.)

Quote:
Well, it was somewhat tongue in cheek, but I do think that most women really have no clue as to how strong a normal, healthy male's libido is.
And most men really have no clue how strong a normal, healthy female libido is. Many of those inhibitions are aided, in fact enforced, massively by social pressures. A woman, even if they have more desire than most men, are expected to be the gatekeepers of sex. The negative consequences for them are still greater, even taking children completely out of it. A man, even if his desire is far less than most other people, is expected and basically socially forced, to pretend to want any and all sex with women in virtually every situation.

Never mistake outward appearance of control or ease of control with the strength of the desire. Desire and willingness are completely different things. People actually make this mistake with me consistently. They think I'm naturally controlled, focused, orderly, and calm. I'm naturally impulsive and unfocused, to an extreme degree, as part of my ADHD. It's because of that, that I've developed very strong coping mechanisms that make it appear like I'm not struggling with the very things I'm struggling the most with (this includes the above stuff elsewhere on the forum). Some people overcome massive temptation, while others fall for light incitement, with the outward appearance of them both being the same.

But back to how this all relates to the thread (or at least the thread drift), for the purposes of what seems to be Ginger's main point, it is enough to admit that there are many motivations for rape and sexual assault, which includes power, so explanations such as 'he wouldn't do that because he can get a ton of sex elsewhere/he's too old/why would he?' don't actually run counter to the likelihood of sexual assault. In that abstract at least. I'm not actually talking Trump here and I'd have to look back to see if Ginger was.

EDIT: *This is a rather important point I forgot to put in. Many rapists don't think they're rapists. From all the information I've looked at, there is no one clear 'type' of rapist, even if there are several personality traits that correlate with rape. They also correlate with things like success in business, so they aren't just that predictive. The thought 'I'd never rape' is comforting and in most cases true, but is often stated with more confidence than is strictly warranted. Not about you specifically 14.
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Old 29th December 2016, 08:09 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This standard may not work out the way you hope.
You're not the least embarrassed plucking news from the right wing blogosphere? It's all over IBTimes, Breitbart, Fox, WND.... Jackie Evancho sales skyrocket after announcement she'll perform at inauguration.

Fake News Alert! Fake News Alert! We have Fake News on Aisle Three. Fake News on Aisle Three.

Jackie Evancho's Album Shot to the Top of the Billboard Classical Chart. Beating out such household names as "Voices of Women Featuring the Orchestra of Ireland" and "The Piano Guys".

The theme of this thread is that no top names will play at the inauguration. In the real world, she's #60(with a bullet) on the Billboard Top 100. That equals "a name", not a top name. But if you follow the old typing exercise dictum 'now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party", get out there and buy a copy, I'm sure the right wing blogosphere can elevate her to star status by the 20th.
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Old 29th December 2016, 08:14 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The theme of this thread is that no top names will play at the inauguration.
That wasn't the theme of the post I responded to. Do pay attention.
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Old 29th December 2016, 08:37 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That wasn't the theme of the post I responded to. Do pay attention.
Do be a skeptic for us.

How many album sales are represented by a rise from #1 to #1 (previous position was #1) on the Billboard Classical Chart.

Jan 7 (current chart) = #1
Dec 31 = #1
Dec 24 = #1
Dec 17 = #1
Dec 10 = #2
Dec 3 = #2

The album was hot-ish already when it was announced she was playing the inauguration. It didn't skyrocket, but got some additional sales. Have you ever seen the crap that sells in volume after an airing of The Voice.... a million copies a week?

Publicity helps any album. It's not magical fairy dust from the Orange Turdblossom. Her album was selling anyway. A rise to #60 in the overall charts is pretty good. The list of people we've never heard of who are above her, though, is pretty large. And that's just the current Billboard rankings; not all popular names have albums out right now.
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Old 29th December 2016, 08:47 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Do be a skeptic for us.
You still aren't paying attention. Go back to the post I first responded to. Read it again (or more likely,for the first time).
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Old 29th December 2016, 09:14 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You still aren't paying attention. Go back to the post I first responded to. Read it again (or more likely,for the first time).
I hate to be a pedant but I think you mis-spelled "You're right. I picked up a press release that can be easily disproven in my rush to provide a counter argument. Thank you for your mitzvah."

I read the post you responded to. And I responded to your response which was sorely lacking. You're repeating non-news as though it's meaningful. The singer's album was taking off, anyway. It's seasonal. How much of the sales are attributed to the Trump association and how much to people getting around to buying stocking stuffers the weeks before Christmas?

My findings say that a lot of this was organic sales growth. Rather than Evancho gaining sales from being chosen to play the inauguration, we see Trump's people latching onto a minor light who was becoming popular. Your response to a somewhat facetious post directly states that it's because of the fairy dust turdblossom pollen. That's the spin being put on it by the Trump-o-sphere. When do you get your membership card?
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Old 29th December 2016, 09:41 PM   #277
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Trump has the the number one classical artist singing for him!

Name some other number one classical artists.

I'll go first:

Mozart.

You go next
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Old 29th December 2016, 09:44 PM   #278
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I hear the democrat party is having a counter concert (classy! Move to Canadia)

I hear leatherly has been madanno is "singing"
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Old 29th December 2016, 09:55 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I hear the democrat party is having a counter concert (classy! Move to Canadia)

I hear leatherly has been madanno is "singing"
Again in English please.
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Old 29th December 2016, 10:39 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I hate to be a pedant but I think you mis-spelled "You're right. I picked up a press release that can be easily disproven in my rush to provide a counter argument. Thank you for your mitzvah."

I read the post you responded to. And I responded to your response which was sorely lacking. You're repeating non-news as though it's meaningful. The singer's album was taking off, anyway. It's seasonal. How much of the sales are attributed to the Trump association and how much to people getting around to buying stocking stuffers the weeks before Christmas?

My findings say that a lot of this was organic sales growth. Rather than Evancho gaining sales from being chosen to play the inauguration, we see Trump's people latching onto a minor light who was becoming popular. Your response to a somewhat facetious post directly states that it's because of the fairy dust turdblossom pollen. That's the spin being put on it by the Trump-o-sphere. When do you get your membership card?
How's that boycott working out? Is it super-effective? Or is it not doing anything?

You have learned nothing.
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