Are all Trump supporters racists? - Page 35

The Shrike · 19th January 2017, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

He could have done a bit more to combat this fascination with racial tensions in the press, but he didn't.

What does this even mean? You think Obama should have instructed the free press of the United States to not report on racial issues?

Does that not strike you as unConstitutional as well as ludicrous?

Also, if you don't blame Obama for perceived worsening race relations, then I recommend avoiding the use of phrases like "Under Obama . . . " This applies to anything we might blame on or credit to a president, e.g., unemployment, housing, environmental protections, etc. Tying some problem to a president's administration implies that the administration bears culpability for that problem.

Foolmewunz · 19th January 2017, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Thank you for presenting the 538 piece. It's obviously a Left leaning site by looking at their featured stories.

538's discussion included only Black and White respondents. No need to read any further. We have Hispanics in the US too, as well as a few others. This is exactly the reason I prefer the NORC info, 538's piece left out a great deal of info in order to paint a pretty picture. If you'll notice NORC includes a number of races and ask questions that are not triggers for a certain response as they're not looking for a preconceived outcome.

You're not going to get a pass by focusing only on Black and White respondents and you're not going to get a pass directing me to a Liberal presentation of cherry picked info.

All links I provided included NORC info. You do realize that you are arguing that Race relations have improved in the US? Seriously? You don't see any issue with Black Lives Matter, Police shootings, rioting, burning of entire blocks, looting businesses? We've not seen anything like this since the Rodney King ordeal.
Chris B.

Data is data. 538 are not a liberal site. They crunch numbers. In this case they crunched NORC's numbers. As you can see by the trend line, those numbers contradict your contention.

The thing with the NORC data is that it's available. Rather than picking one report(*) from Column A and two from Column B, why don't you go to their site and download the data set and show us.

538 did some simple graphs and the trend over the past forty-six years is that actual attitudes are improving and blatant racist ideas are being washed away. That data is from the GOP/Conservative eras under Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II - total of 24 years and Carter, Clinton, Obama - total of 22 years. That score is pretty even and the control of Congress was also relatively evenly split.

It's not liberal bias to report people's responses. The numbers are there.

Regnad Kcin · 19th January 2017, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Would you agree that those living in a bubble only agree with what they want to be true?
Chris B.

I don't know. Do you?

uke2se · 20th January 2017, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

That's a bizarre way of looking at it. It looks like you simply wish to deny, without really investigating the subject or presenting evidence to counter mine. I'm afraid I'll require a bit of evidence on your part before conceding. I suppose you could just admit I'm right and can skip the homework. Or you can skip the homework and stick with the denial without ever having presenting anything to support your position to prove me right. I'll accept either.
Chris B.

I really don't care what you require, because it's an unreasonable request. You made an assertion that Obama was wrong (which he might well be). You were asked to provide evidence, and you failed spectacularly to provide any evidence that actually backed what you were saying. Posting links isn't the same as providing evidence. The text in the links provided also has to actually correspond to the argument made.

quadraginta · 20th January 2017, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Thank you for presenting the 538 piece. It's obviously a Left leaning site by looking at their featured stories.

<snip>

You and logger have a lot in common, I see.

The Shrike · 20th January 2017, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

You and logger have a lot in common, I see.

Re: 538 being a "Left-leaning" site:

In our post-fact world, using objective data to inform a position is leftist.

phiwum · 22nd January 2017, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Easy for me to sit as a white guy and say that. However, I don't think my perspective is necessarily all that meaningful.

There is no reason for me to think that racists that came out of the woodwork in recent were any less racist in 2006. They are just howling more about it.

in the meantime, people of color are also more wiling and able to stand up and call it out, and don't feel obligated to sit quietly.

That seems like progress to me.

I am not sure that you and I disagree.

ponderingturtle · 23rd January 2017, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by The Shrike

Re: 538 being a "Left-leaning" site:

In our post-fact world, using objective data to inform a position is leftist.

They just use alternate facts.

Truthiness has become the official position of the white house, think Colbert will get any money from it?

Aridas · 23rd January 2017, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

They just use alternate facts.

Truthiness has become the official position of the white house, think Colbert will get any money from it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqOTxl3Bsbw

Colbert weighed in on the matter before. "Truthiness" is what's in play. "Trumpiness" is what's in play. Truthiness at least has to sound true. Trumpiness doesn't even need to do that. Or be believed.

logger · 23rd January 2017, 08:22 PM

Interesting read.
https://news.grabien.com/story-dnc-c...y-charged-foru

19th January 2017, 08:04 PM	#1362
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 41,468	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Thank you for presenting the 538 piece. It's obviously a Left leaning site by looking at their featured stories. 538's discussion included only Black and White respondents. No need to read any further. We have Hispanics in the US too, as well as a few others. This is exactly the reason I prefer the NORC info, 538's piece left out a great deal of info in order to paint a pretty picture. If you'll notice NORC includes a number of races and ask questions that are not triggers for a certain response as they're not looking for a preconceived outcome. You're not going to get a pass by focusing only on Black and White respondents and you're not going to get a pass directing me to a Liberal presentation of cherry picked info. All links I provided included NORC info. You do realize that you are arguing that Race relations have improved in the US? Seriously? You don't see any issue with Black Lives Matter, Police shootings, rioting, burning of entire blocks, looting businesses? We've not seen anything like this since the Rodney King ordeal. Chris B. Data is data. 538 are not a liberal site. They crunch numbers. In this case they crunched NORC's numbers. As you can see by the trend line, those numbers contradict your contention. The thing with the NORC data is that it's available. Rather than picking one report(*) from Column A and two from Column B, why don't you go to their site and download the data set and show us. 538 did some simple graphs and the trend over the past forty-six years is that actual attitudes are improving and blatant racist ideas are being washed away. That data is from the GOP/Conservative eras under Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II - total of 24 years and Carter, Clinton, Obama - total of 22 years. That score is pretty even and the control of Congress was also relatively evenly split. It's not liberal bias to report people's responses. The numbers are there.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.

19th January 2017, 08:24 PM	#1363
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,240	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Would you agree that those living in a bubble only agree with what they want to be true? Chris B. I don't know. Do you?
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

20th January 2017, 01:12 AM	#1364
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,181	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY That's a bizarre way of looking at it. It looks like you simply wish to deny, without really investigating the subject or presenting evidence to counter mine. I'm afraid I'll require a bit of evidence on your part before conceding. I suppose you could just admit I'm right and can skip the homework. Or you can skip the homework and stick with the denial without ever having presenting anything to support your position to prove me right. I'll accept either. Chris B. I really don't care what you require, because it's an unreasonable request. You made an assertion that Obama was wrong (which he might well be). You were asked to provide evidence, and you failed spectacularly to provide any evidence that actually backed what you were saying. Posting links isn't the same as providing evidence. The text in the links provided also has to actually correspond to the argument made.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

20th January 2017, 06:31 AM	#1365
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,177	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Thank you for presenting the 538 piece. It's obviously a Left leaning site by looking at their featured stories. <snip> You and logger have a lot in common, I see.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

23rd January 2017, 04:43 AM	#1368
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,466	Originally Posted by The Shrike Re: 538 being a "Left-leaning" site: In our post-fact world, using objective data to inform a position is leftist. They just use alternate facts. Truthiness has become the official position of the white house, think Colbert will get any money from it?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

19th January 2017, 02:26 PM	#1361
The Shrike Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma, USA Posts: 5,147	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY He could have done a bit more to combat this fascination with racial tensions in the press, but he didn't. What does this even mean? You think Obama should have instructed the free press of the United States to not report on racial issues? Does that not strike you as unConstitutional as well as ludicrous? Also, if you don't blame Obama for perceived worsening race relations, then I recommend avoiding the use of phrases like "Under Obama . . . " This applies to anything we might blame on or credit to a president, e.g., unemployment, housing, environmental protections, etc. Tying some problem to a president's administration implies that the administration bears culpability for that problem.

20th January 2017, 06:58 AM	#1366
The Shrike Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma, USA Posts: 5,147	Originally Posted by quadraginta You and logger have a lot in common, I see. Re: 538 being a "Left-leaning" site: In our post-fact world, using objective data to inform a position is leftist.

22nd January 2017, 12:41 PM	#1367
phiwum Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,720	Originally Posted by pgwenthold Easy for me to sit as a white guy and say that. However, I don't think my perspective is necessarily all that meaningful. There is no reason for me to think that racists that came out of the woodwork in recent were any less racist in 2006. They are just howling more about it. in the meantime, people of color are also more wiling and able to stand up and call it out, and don't feel obligated to sit quietly. That seems like progress to me. I am not sure that you and I disagree.

23rd January 2017, 11:57 AM	#1369
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,472	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle They just use alternate facts. Truthiness has become the official position of the white house, think Colbert will get any money from it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqOTxl3Bsbw Colbert weighed in on the matter before. "Truthiness" is what's in play. "Trumpiness" is what's in play. Truthiness at least has to sound true. Trumpiness doesn't even need to do that. Or be believed.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

23rd January 2017, 08:22 PM	#1370
logger Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 11,145	Interesting read. https://news.grabien.com/story-dnc-c...y-charged-foru
logger Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 11,145